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Blogify && Peerkat

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  • Rael Dornfest
    Howdy, Aaron has done some wonderful work on Blogify service; I implore everyone to amble over and take a gander at: http://logicerror.com/blogifyYourPage
    Message 1 of 30 , Mar 22, 2001
      Howdy,

      Aaron has done some wonderful work on Blogify service; I implore everyone to
      amble over and take a gander at:

      http://logicerror.com/blogifyYourPage

      Aaron: I blogged your blogification at:

      http://www.oreillynet.com/cs/weblog/view/wlg/173

      and also fed your sample to Peerkat; see screen snaps at:

      http://www.oreillynet.com/images/weblogs/people/rael/peerkat/peerkat_blogify
      _feed.gif

      http://www.oreillynet.com/images/weblogs/people/rael/peerkat/peerkat_blogify
      _test.gif

      Great work, Aaron!

      Rael

      ------------------------------------------------------------------
      Rael Dornfest rael@...
      Maven http://www.oreillynet.com/weblogs/rael/
      The O'Reilly Network http://www.oreillynet.com/
      ------------------------------------------------------------------

      The O'Reilly Peer-to-Peer and Web Services Conference
      Omni Shoreham Hotel, Washington, DC
      September 17-20, 2001
      http://conferences.oreilly.com/p2p/call_fall.html
    • Seth Russell
      From: Rael Dornfest ... to ... Kewl, very Kewl ! Now it seems that any web page (perhaps even email) can be an entry point to the
      Message 2 of 30 , Mar 22, 2001
        From: "Rael Dornfest" <rael@...>

        > Aaron has done some wonderful work on Blogify service; I implore everyone
        to
        > amble over and take a gander at:
        >
        > http://logicerror.com/blogifyYourPage

        Kewl, very Kewl ! Now it seems that any web page (perhaps even email) can
        be an entry point to the semantic cloud.

        This probably has already been kicked around, but ....what if I only want to
        see new things on your page since last time I checked the feed? Couldn't
        we do that by putting a date inside the span tag, .. the date somehow
        flowing to the RSS file, so that now the server software would have the data
        it needs to select which items to show to a client based upon a last
        accessed date stored in their cookies?

        semtran: language=Semenglish class="rss:item" date="2001.03.22"
        Seth
        (still looking for programming help with) Sembrowser;
        mbox mailto:seth@... .
      • Aaron Swartz
        ... Yeah, I d love to do this if you can think of some way to do it that s HTML-valid and doesn t screw up the display. -- [ Aaron Swartz | me@aaronsw.com |
        Message 3 of 30 , Mar 22, 2001
          Seth Russell <seth@...> wrote:

          > This probably has already been kicked around, but ....what if I only want to
          > see new things on your page since last time I checked the feed? Couldn't
          > we do that by putting a date inside the span tag, .. the date somehow
          > flowing to the RSS file, so that now the server software would have the data
          > it needs to select which items to show to a client based upon a last
          > accessed date stored in their cookies?

          Yeah, I'd love to do this if you can think of some way to do it that's
          HTML-valid and doesn't screw up the display.

          --
          [ Aaron Swartz | me@... | http://www.aaronsw.com ]
        • Seth Russell
          From: Aaron Swartz ... want to ... Couldn t ... data ... Hmmm... i don t know what the problem would be. How about just displaying a
          Message 4 of 30 , Mar 22, 2001
            From: "Aaron Swartz" <aswartz@...>


            > Seth Russell <seth@...> wrote:
            >
            > > This probably has already been kicked around, but ....what if I only
            want to
            > > see new things on your page since last time I checked the feed?
            Couldn't
            > > we do that by putting a date inside the span tag, .. the date somehow
            > > flowing to the RSS file, so that now the server software would have the
            data
            > > it needs to select which items to show to a client based upon a last
            > > accessed date stored in their cookies?
            >
            > Yeah, I'd love to do this if you can think of some way to do it that's
            > HTML-valid and doesn't screw up the display.

            Hmmm... i don't know what the problem would be. How about just displaying a
            tiny image (or text) of the word 'new' if the date+time in the rss:item is
            >= the date+time in the cookie? We did that once at clickshop several years
            ago, worked great. But it's too simple, so wer're probably misunderstanding
            each other.

            Seth
          • Aaron Swartz
            ... No, I meant how do we fit date into the very simple system? Where does the page author stick the date? -- [ Aaron Swartz |
            Message 5 of 30 , Mar 22, 2001
              Seth Russell <seth@...> wrote:

              >> Yeah, I'd love to do this if you can think of some way to do it that's
              >> HTML-valid and doesn't screw up the display.
              >
              > Hmmm... i don't know what the problem would be. How about just displaying a
              > tiny image (or text) of the word 'new' if the date+time in the rss:item is
              > > = the date+time in the cookie? We did that once at clickshop several years
              > ago, worked great. But it's too simple, so wer're probably misunderstanding
              > each other.

              No, I meant how do we fit date into the very simple <span class="rss:item"/>
              system? Where does the page author stick the date?

              --
              [ Aaron Swartz | me@... | http://www.aaronsw.com ]
            • Seth Russell
              From: Aaron Swartz ... class= rss:item / ... or whatever datetime format
              Message 6 of 30 , Mar 22, 2001
                From: "Aaron Swartz" <aswartz@...>

                > No, I meant how do we fit date into the very simple <span
                class="rss:item"/>
                > system? Where does the page author stick the date?

                <span class="rss:item" datetime="2001.03.22.T20.30.22" /> or whatever
                datetime format that is appropriate. Can't we just add whatever attributes
                we want in a XHTML tag?

                Seth
              • Sean B. Palmer
                ... [...] -- Kindest Regards, Sean B. Palmer @prefix : .
                Message 7 of 30 , Mar 22, 2001
                  > No, I meant how do we fit date into the very simple <span
                  > class="rss:item"/> system? Where does the page author
                  > stick the date?

                  <span class="rss:item" title="time/date">[...]

                  --
                  Kindest Regards,
                  Sean B. Palmer
                  @prefix : <http://webns.net/roughterms/> .
                  :Sean :hasHomepage <http://purl.org/net/sbp/> .
                • Aaron Swartz
                  ... I may consider doing this, but it s certainly not very extensible. What if I want to add other attributes. Thanks for the tip, tho, -- [ Aaron Swartz |
                  Message 8 of 30 , Mar 22, 2001
                    Sean B. Palmer <sean@...> wrote:

                    >> No, I meant how do we fit date into the very simple <span
                    >> class="rss:item"/> system? Where does the page author
                    >> stick the date?
                    >
                    > <span class="rss:item" title="time/date">[...]

                    I may consider doing this, but it's certainly not very extensible. What if I
                    want to add other attributes.

                    Thanks for the tip, tho,

                    --
                    [ Aaron Swartz | me@... | http://www.aaronsw.com ]
                  • Aaron Swartz
                    ... No. You must follow the spec. -- [ Aaron Swartz | me@aaronsw.com | http://www.aaronsw.com ]
                    Message 9 of 30 , Mar 22, 2001
                      Seth Russell <seth@...> wrote:

                      >> No, I meant how do we fit date into the very simple <span
                      >> class="rss:item"/>
                      >> system? Where does the page author stick the date?
                      >
                      > <span class="rss:item" datetime="2001.03.22.T20.30.22" /> or whatever
                      > datetime format that is appropriate. Can't we just add whatever attributes
                      > we want in a XHTML tag?

                      No. You must follow the spec.

                      --
                      [ Aaron Swartz | me@... | http://www.aaronsw.com ]
                    • Seth Russell
                      From: Aaron Swartz ... attributes ... Why? and What spec? Last time I looked the X in XML stood for extensible. Now I suppose some
                      Message 10 of 30 , Mar 22, 2001
                        From: "Aaron Swartz" <aswartz@...>

                        > > <span class="rss:item" datetime="2001.03.22.T20.30.22" /> or whatever
                        > > datetime format that is appropriate. Can't we just add whatever
                        attributes
                        > > we want in a XHTML tag?
                        >
                        > No. You must follow the spec.

                        Why? and What spec? Last time I looked the X in XML stood for extensible.
                        Now I suppose some DTD that is designed to validate the XML might complain,
                        but so what .. just update the DTD. I mean just how does XHTML get
                        extended? Does it take some blessing from a high priest?

                        Point is: where will it hurt??

                        Seth
                      • Morbus Iff
                        ... Welp. Hmm. The initial problem with stuff like this is the canonical well, golly, gee, which one is the month? what timezone is this in? and all that
                        Message 11 of 30 , Mar 22, 2001
                          >><span class="rss:item" title="2001-3-22">...</span>

                          Welp. Hmm. The initial problem with stuff like this is the canonical "well,
                          golly, gee, which one is the month?" "what timezone is this in?" and all
                          that fun little crap.

                          Initially, I would have thought that the best option would be to use the
                          same format that webservers and other server like programs spit out, which
                          is usually something like this:

                          Thu, 15 Mar 2001 14:28:19 GMT

                          Of course, the initial problem with that is getting the initial client
                          software to spit that out correctly. For example, in Blogger terms, you can
                          deal with the following dates:

                          3/22/2001 6:23:02 PM
                          Thursday, March 22, 2001 ***
                          3/22/2001
                          6:23:02 PM
                          18:23
                          22.3.01
                          6:23 PM

                          Of those, the only workable one is the one I've asteriked. And we don't get
                          the benefit of the exact time that the post was added. I'm not sure if we
                          need that much detail, however.

                          Thoughts?

                          --
                          Morbus Iff

                          Here we have MorbusBird - Able to fly across all boundaries,
                          ^ migrate his way unfailingly into every inbox and browser
                          /( )\ across the land, with the freedom to (anywhere he wants to!)
                          /.\ drop his shat... Devil Shat:<http://www.disobey.com/devilshat/>

                          -06--- <\/> ---- <http://www.disobey.com/> --- Bad Ascii, Short Notice ----
                        • Morbus Iff
                          ... Well, let s see. Extended XHTML is a choice of the w3c. It will hurt: - parsers/syntax checkers that assume the XHTML DTD is god. - you think time , me
                          Message 12 of 30 , Mar 22, 2001
                            >Why? and What spec? Last time I looked the X in XML stood for extensible.
                            >Now I suppose some DTD that is designed to validate the XML might complain,
                            >but so what .. just update the DTD. I mean just how does XHTML get
                            >extended? Does it take some blessing from a high priest?
                            >
                            > Point is: where will it hurt??

                            Well, let's see. Extended XHTML is a choice of the w3c. It will hurt:

                            - parsers/syntax checkers that assume the XHTML DTD is god.
                            - you think "time", me think "date", he think "seconds".
                            no communal decision. in essence, <blink> and <marquee> all
                            over again.

                            --
                            Morbus Iff
                            ______ Here we have HomelessMorbus - living in a box. Able to
                            | () | furnish an old refrigerator box into a spacious 3 room
                            |<\/>| complete with Internet connection and entertainment center,
                            |_/\_| until it rains, and then he's up to his knees in shat...
                            Devil Shat: <http://www.disobey.com/devilshat/>

                            -01--- <\/> ---- <http://www.disobey.com/> --- Bad Ascii, Short Notice ----
                          • Seth Russell
                            From: Morbus Iff ... I doubt that any parser will complain at all; they should have been designed to ignore attributes that they don t
                            Message 13 of 30 , Mar 22, 2001
                              From: "Morbus Iff" <morbus@...>
                              > > Point is: where will it hurt??
                              >
                              > Well, let's see. Extended XHTML is a choice of the w3c. It will hurt:
                              >
                              > - parsers/syntax checkers that assume the XHTML DTD is god.
                              > - you think "time", me think "date", he think "seconds".
                              > no communal decision. in essence, <blink> and <marquee> all
                              > over again.

                              I doubt that any parser will complain at all; they should have been designed
                              to ignore attributes that they don't understand. Syntax checkers will
                              complain, but so what.

                              Restate question: Is this exclusively a political issue, or is there some
                              technical reason that it will not work ?

                              Seth
                            • Aaron Swartz
                              ... As far as I m concerned, there s only one correct choice, and that s the ISO and W3C standard: W3CDTF, which is also the only format allowed in RSS 1.0.
                              Message 14 of 30 , Mar 22, 2001
                                Morbus Iff <morbus@...> wrote:

                                > Of course, the initial problem with that is getting the initial client
                                > software to spit that out correctly. For example, in Blogger terms, you can
                                > deal with the following dates:

                                As far as I'm concerned, there's only one correct choice, and that's the ISO
                                and W3C standard: W3CDTF, which is also the only format allowed in RSS 1.0.

                                Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like Blogger spits that out. Perhaps we
                                should write Ev?

                                --
                                [ Aaron Swartz | me@... | http://www.aaronsw.com ]
                              • Morbus Iff
                                ... I don t know of this. Do you have a link/example? ... I know he s pretty busy - I m not sure if he ll bite. Especially since he s producing RSS in the pay
                                Message 15 of 30 , Mar 22, 2001
                                  >As far as I'm concerned, there's only one correct choice, and that's the ISO
                                  >and W3C standard: W3CDTF, which is also the only format allowed in RSS 1.0.

                                  I don't know of this. Do you have a link/example?

                                  >Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like Blogger spits that out.
                                  >Perhaps we should write Ev?

                                  I know he's pretty busy - I'm not sure if he'll bite. Especially since he's
                                  producing RSS in the pay version of Blogger (Blogger Pro), and he may not
                                  be so suave about catering to a ... subversive method ;) ...

                                  Worth a shot, though.

                                  --
                                  Morbus Iff
                                  We have QuadrapalegicMorbus - able to lay still on tall
                                  o-/----' servers for days at a time, slower than Christopher Reeve at
                                  a full roll, smells stronger than 128 poobits. Defender
                                  of Bedsores, Boredom and Bedpans of Shat...
                                  Devil Shat: <http://www.disobey.com/devilshat/>

                                  -02--- <\/> ---- <http://www.disobey.com/> --- Bad Ascii, Short Notice ----
                                • Aaron Swartz
                                  ... Because the W3C says so in the HTML spec. ... Unfortunately yes. That or you wade through XHTML-m12n (a major mistaken, IMO). Either way, you ll need to
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Mar 22, 2001
                                    Seth Russell <seth@...> wrote:

                                    >>> <span class="rss:item" datetime="2001.03.22.T20.30.22" /> or whatever
                                    >>> datetime format that is appropriate. Can't we just add whatever
                                    >>> attributes we want in a XHTML tag?
                                    >> No. You must follow the spec.
                                    > Why? and What spec?

                                    Because the W3C says so in the HTML spec.

                                    > Last time I looked the X in XML stood for extensible.
                                    > Now I suppose some DTD that is designed to validate the XML might complain,
                                    > but so what .. just update the DTD. I mean just how does XHTML get
                                    > extended? Does it take some blessing from a high priest?

                                    Unfortunately yes. That or you wade through XHTML-m12n (a major mistaken,
                                    IMO). Either way, you'll need to use a namespace for it (which means I need
                                    to add a namespace parser to my software, which is more complication than I
                                    need right now).

                                    --
                                    [ Aaron Swartz | me@... | http://www.aaronsw.com ]
                                  • Aaron Swartz
                                    ... http://www.w3.org/TR/NOTE-datetime ... Yeah, I know... Well, I guess we ll see... -- [ Aaron Swartz | me@aaronsw.com | http://www.aaronsw.com ]
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Mar 22, 2001
                                      Morbus Iff <morbus@...> wrote:

                                      >> As far as I'm concerned, there's only one correct choice, and that's the ISO
                                      >> and W3C standard: W3CDTF, which is also the only format allowed in RSS 1.0.
                                      > I don't know of this. Do you have a link/example?

                                      http://www.w3.org/TR/NOTE-datetime

                                      >> Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like Blogger spits that out.
                                      >> Perhaps we should write Ev?
                                      > I know he's pretty busy - I'm not sure if he'll bite. Especially since he's
                                      > producing RSS in the pay version of Blogger (Blogger Pro), and he may not
                                      > be so suave about catering to a ... subversive method ;) ...
                                      >
                                      > Worth a shot, though.

                                      Yeah, I know... Well, I guess we'll see...

                                      --
                                      [ Aaron Swartz | me@... | http://www.aaronsw.com ]
                                    • Ian Graham
                                      ... There is no such thing as a W3C time standard -- there is a W3C note that discusses possible standards for time / date strings
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Mar 22, 2001
                                        On Thu, 22 Mar 2001, Aaron Swartz wrote:

                                        > Morbus Iff <morbus@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > > Of course, the initial problem with that is getting the initial client
                                        > > software to spit that out correctly. For example, in Blogger terms, you can
                                        > > deal with the following dates:
                                        >
                                        > As far as I'm concerned, there's only one correct choice, and that's the ISO
                                        > and W3C standard: W3CDTF, which is also the only format allowed in RSS 1.0.

                                        There is no such thing as a W3C time standard -- there is a W3C 'note'
                                        that discusses possible standards for time / date strings
                                        (http://www.w3.org/TR/NOTE-datetime-970915.html), but no official
                                        W3C position on this.

                                        There are 'official' IETF and ISO standards -- ISO 8601 is the one that
                                        gives strings like:

                                        1999-05-26T15:32:30+01:00
                                        or
                                        2001-02-31T13:32:25Z

                                        which is the one discussed in the W3C note and the one RSS is using. I, on
                                        the other hand, am partial to the IETF standard RFC 1123, which lets you
                                        have strings like:

                                        Thu, 23 Dec 1999 07:23:41 GMT

                                        But then I'm an old-fashioned type of guy ;-)

                                        Best --

                                        Ian

                                        > Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like Blogger spits that out. Perhaps we
                                        > should write Ev?
                                        >
                                        > --
                                        > [ Aaron Swartz | me@... | http://www.aaronsw.com ]
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                        > rss-dev-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • Sean B. Palmer
                                        ... Hmph... don t get me started on this. For the record, W3C only currently recommend XHTML 1.0 [1]. XHTML 1.0 is in no way whatsoever extensible, although it
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Mar 22, 2001
                                          > I mean just how does XHTML get extended? Does it
                                          > take some blessing from a high priest?

                                          Hmph... don't get me started on this.

                                          For the record, W3C only currently recommend XHTML 1.0 [1]. XHTML 1.0
                                          is in no way whatsoever extensible, although it does contain a small
                                          non-normative section on namespace extensibility. The way to extend
                                          XHTML is with XHTML m12n [2]: that is the only "legal" way to do it,
                                          and m12n isn't even a recommendation yet (it's a PR).

                                          Still, XHTML m12n has a very narrow scope, and isn't meant for the day
                                          hacker (hmm... more Beatles references?). So most people just stuff
                                          m12n and go for namespace or at best, Schema extensibility, neither of
                                          which are all that good either, but at least they're easier.

                                          As Aaron points out, all of this involves namespaces, so as far as
                                          Blogification is concerned, this is rather a moot point. Anyway, the
                                          fact of the matter remains that when asked the question "can you
                                          really extend XHTML?" the answer is "no, unless.....".

                                          So I suggest that you just use "title" and make-do with it. If you
                                          want to add other junk in, use further <span>'s or whatever. The fact
                                          is, XHTML wasn't designed to carry RSS feeds, so you're going to have
                                          to hack at it :-)

                                          [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1
                                          [2] http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-modularization

                                          --
                                          Kindest Regards,
                                          Sean B. Palmer
                                          @prefix : <http://webns.net/roughterms/> .
                                          :Sean :hasHomepage <http://purl.org/net/sbp/> .
                                        • Morbus Iff
                                          ... Ahhhh... well, see, learn something new every day. That s the one I recommended. Now I know where it comes from. Thanks! -- Morbus Iff Here we have
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Mar 22, 2001
                                            >which is the one discussed in the W3C note and the one RSS is using. I, on
                                            >the other hand, am partial to the IETF standard RFC 1123, which lets you
                                            >have strings like:
                                            >
                                            >Thu, 23 Dec 1999 07:23:41 GMT

                                            Ahhhh... well, see, learn something new every day.
                                            That's the one I recommended.
                                            Now I know where it comes from.
                                            Thanks!

                                            --
                                            Morbus Iff

                                            Here we have MorbusBird - Able to fly across all boundaries,
                                            ^ migrate his way unfailingly into every inbox and browser
                                            /( )\ across the land, with the freedom to (anywhere he wants to!)
                                            /.\ drop his shat... Devil Shat:<http://www.disobey.com/devilshat/>

                                            -06--- <\/> ---- <http://www.disobey.com/> --- Bad Ascii, Short Notice ----
                                          • Jeff Barr
                                            ... And we seriously expect users to be able to enter times like that? Maybe we should accept Swatch Internet Time
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Mar 22, 2001
                                              > 1999-05-26T15:32:30+01:00

                                              And we seriously expect users to be able to enter times like that?

                                              Maybe we should accept "Swatch Internet Time"
                                              (http://www.swatch.com/itime_tools/itime.php?color=black&textcolor=white):

                                              As they say:
                                              Internet Time represents a completely new global concept of time:

                                              No Time Zones.
                                              No Geographical Borders.

                                              Swatch has divided the virtual and real day into 1000 "beats".
                                              One Swatch beat is the equivalent of 1 minute 26.4 seconds. That
                                              means that 12 noon in the old time system is the equivalent of @500
                                              Swatch beats.

                                              Then users can use this cool Flash map to know what time to enter:

                                              http://www.cnn.com/WEATHER/worldtime/

                                              Jeff;

                                              (PS - I am just joking)

                                              -----Original Message-----
                                              From: Ian Graham [mailto:ian.graham@...]
                                              Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 6:44 PM
                                              To: rss-dev@yahoogroups.com
                                              Subject: Re: [RSS-DEV] Re: Blogify && Peerkat



                                              On Thu, 22 Mar 2001, Aaron Swartz wrote:

                                              > Morbus Iff <morbus@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > > Of course, the initial problem with that is getting the initial client
                                              > > software to spit that out correctly. For example, in Blogger terms, you
                                              can
                                              > > deal with the following dates:
                                              >
                                              > As far as I'm concerned, there's only one correct choice, and that's the
                                              ISO
                                              > and W3C standard: W3CDTF, which is also the only format allowed in RSS
                                              1.0.

                                              There is no such thing as a W3C time standard -- there is a W3C 'note'
                                              that discusses possible standards for time / date strings
                                              (http://www.w3.org/TR/NOTE-datetime-970915.html), but no official
                                              W3C position on this.

                                              There are 'official' IETF and ISO standards -- ISO 8601 is the one that
                                              gives strings like:

                                              1999-05-26T15:32:30+01:00
                                              or
                                              2001-02-31T13:32:25Z

                                              which is the one discussed in the W3C note and the one RSS is using. I, on
                                              the other hand, am partial to the IETF standard RFC 1123, which lets you
                                              have strings like:

                                              Thu, 23 Dec 1999 07:23:41 GMT

                                              But then I'm an old-fashioned type of guy ;-)

                                              Best --

                                              Ian

                                              > Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like Blogger spits that out. Perhaps we
                                              > should write Ev?
                                              >
                                              > --
                                              > [ Aaron Swartz | me@... | http://www.aaronsw.com ]
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                              > rss-dev-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >


                                              To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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                                            • Aaron Swartz
                                              ... Not really. ... Yeah, at least those are easy to enter: @123 -- [ Aaron Swartz | me@aaronsw.com | http://www.aaronsw.com ]
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Mar 22, 2001
                                                Jeff Barr <jeff@...> wrote:

                                                >> 1999-05-26T15:32:30+01:00
                                                > And we seriously expect users to be able to enter times like that?

                                                Not really.

                                                > Maybe we should accept "Swatch Internet Time"

                                                Yeah, at least those are easy to enter: @123

                                                --
                                                [ Aaron Swartz | me@... | http://www.aaronsw.com ]
                                              • Bill Kearney
                                                ... Which, of course, sucks if you re not one of the relatively few folks that speaks english (compared to total world population) Isn t this why most systems
                                                Message 23 of 30 , Mar 22, 2001
                                                  > I, on the other hand, am partial to the IETF standard RFC
                                                  > 1123, which lets you have strings like:
                                                  >
                                                  > Thu, 23 Dec 1999 07:23:41 GMT
                                                  >
                                                  > But then I'm an old-fashioned type of guy ;-)

                                                  Which, of course, sucks if you're not one of the relatively few folks
                                                  that speaks english (compared to total world population) Isn't this
                                                  why most systems use epoch time instead and let the local environment
                                                  parse it appropriately?

                                                  I'm just an english speaker but I've seen countless times that
                                                  software freaks when it assumes things about date handling with
                                                  different languages or environments.

                                                  -Bill
                                                • Seth Russell
                                                  From: Sean B. Palmer ... Too late now.... See, I remember the days when XML was just starting ... if we (as Tame application
                                                  Message 24 of 30 , Mar 23, 2001
                                                    From: "Sean B. Palmer" <sean@...>

                                                    > > I mean just how does XHTML get extended? Does it
                                                    > > take some blessing from a high priest?
                                                    >
                                                    > Hmph... don't get me started on this.

                                                    Too late now....

                                                    See, I remember the days when XML was just starting ... if we (as Tame
                                                    application developers) wanted a new tag or attribute, we just added it ...
                                                    no problem, if it was a neat tag/attribute others would use it too. I had
                                                    viewed XHTML as the beginning of that kind of environment for the web at
                                                    large .... silly me. Technically, I still can't conceive of why this can't
                                                    be done; but politically it seems we're gonna have W3C groupies screaming
                                                    that it's not legal. Now I can see the other side of the coin too ...
                                                    nobody liked the Netscape's and the Microsoft's extending things in
                                                    incompatible ways .. so that when they agreed (did they agree?) to adopt the
                                                    W3C standards it was certainly a good thing for us all. But I guess I
                                                    didn't read in the fine print where us application development guys were
                                                    loosing the ability to easily layer our own tag/attribute definitions above
                                                    the communal standards. When, where, and why did we loose this important
                                                    freedom?

                                                    .... what am I missing?

                                                    > [1] http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1
                                                    > [2] http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml-modularization

                                                    Seth
                                                  • Aaron Swartz
                                                    ... Namespaces. It seems that from now on, extensibility is done using namespaces. Namespaces let you layer whatever you want on top of any XML, while
                                                    Message 25 of 30 , Mar 23, 2001
                                                      Seth Russell <seth@...> wrote:

                                                      > But I guess I
                                                      > didn't read in the fine print where us application development guys were
                                                      > loosing the ability to easily layer our own tag/attribute definitions above
                                                      > the communal standards. When, where, and why did we loose this important
                                                      > freedom?
                                                      >
                                                      > .... what am I missing?

                                                      Namespaces. It seems that from now on, extensibility is done using
                                                      namespaces. Namespaces let you layer whatever you want on top of any XML,
                                                      while remaining in your URL so that your additions won't step on anyone
                                                      else's toes.

                                                      --
                                                      [ Aaron Swartz | me@... | http://www.aaronsw.com ]
                                                    • Seth Russell
                                                      From: Aaron Swartz ... OOhhh ! Seth
                                                      Message 26 of 30 , Mar 23, 2001
                                                        From: "Aaron Swartz" <aswartz@...>

                                                        > > .... what am I missing?
                                                        >
                                                        > Namespaces. It seems that from now on, extensibility is done using
                                                        > namespaces. Namespaces let you layer whatever you want on top of any XML,
                                                        > while remaining in your URL so that your additions won't step on anyone
                                                        > else's toes.

                                                        OOhhh !

                                                        Seth
                                                      • Aaron Swartz
                                                        ... I m not sure if I understand correctly -- does this mean that Moreover output will contain rss:item spans? What would be the benefit of this -- aren t
                                                        Message 27 of 30 , Mar 23, 2001
                                                          David Galbraith <david@...> wrote:

                                                          > We are updating the Moreover wizard and will output an HTML version that
                                                          > includes div and span class attribute metadata - so hopefully this will be
                                                          > useful.
                                                          > Will give you a heads up before this goes live.

                                                          I'm not sure if I understand correctly -- does this mean that Moreover
                                                          output will contain rss:item spans? What would be the benefit of this --
                                                          aren't Morever files in RSS already? Perhaps I'm missing something...

                                                          Or is the idea to integrate the Moreover feed along with the news already
                                                          published on the page. Either way, using this new format should be an option
                                                          so it doesn't get confused with the actual content of the page.

                                                          However, I think it's great that Moreover is helping this format gain
                                                          traction. I just keep seeing it pop up all over.

                                                          --
                                                          [ Aaron Swartz | me@... | http://www.aaronsw.com ]
                                                        • Jeff Barr
                                                          I think it means that you could have a blog page which pulled in some Moreover items using the Moreover scripts, and that the Blogifier would find them. Jeff;
                                                          Message 28 of 30 , Mar 23, 2001
                                                            I think it means that you could have a blog page which pulled
                                                            in some Moreover items using the Moreover scripts, and that the
                                                            Blogifier would find them.

                                                            Jeff;

                                                            -----Original Message-----
                                                            From: Aaron Swartz [mailto:aswartz@...]
                                                            Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 12:08 PM
                                                            To: rss-dev@yahoogroups.com
                                                            Subject: [RSS-DEV] Re: Blogify && Peerkat


                                                            David Galbraith <david@...> wrote:

                                                            > We are updating the Moreover wizard and will output an HTML version that
                                                            > includes div and span class attribute metadata - so hopefully this will be
                                                            > useful.
                                                            > Will give you a heads up before this goes live.

                                                            I'm not sure if I understand correctly -- does this mean that Moreover
                                                            output will contain rss:item spans? What would be the benefit of this --
                                                            aren't Morever files in RSS already? Perhaps I'm missing something...

                                                            Or is the idea to integrate the Moreover feed along with the news already
                                                            published on the page. Either way, using this new format should be an option
                                                            so it doesn't get confused with the actual content of the page.

                                                            However, I think it's great that Moreover is helping this format gain
                                                            traction. I just keep seeing it pop up all over.

                                                            --
                                                            [ Aaron Swartz | me@... | http://www.aaronsw.com ]


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                                                          • Dan Lyke
                                                            ... is legal, and if your class detector is conforming shouldn t mess up anything, as Any
                                                            Message 29 of 30 , Mar 23, 2001
                                                              Aaron Swartz writes:
                                                              > > <span class="rss:item" title="time/date">[...]
                                                              >
                                                              > I may consider doing this, but it's certainly not very extensible. What if I
                                                              > want to add other attributes.

                                                              <span class="rss:item rss:item:date:1998-02-01%2000:00:00-08"> is
                                                              legal, and if your class detector is conforming shouldn't mess up
                                                              anything, as "Any number of elements may be assigned the same class
                                                              name or names. Multiple class names must be separated by white space
                                                              characters." Use of standard escapes on ISO8601 times means that
                                                              you've probably already got the parsers written to handle that bit.

                                                              I need to go back through the DTD to see, but I think <span> elements
                                                              are nestable, which means I can use this method for all the semantic
                                                              markup of people and times and such that I want to do.

                                                              Dan
                                                            • David Galbraith
                                                              We are updating the Moreover wizard and will output an HTML version that includes div and span class attribute metadata - so hopefully this will be useful.
                                                              Message 30 of 30 , Mar 23, 2001
                                                                We are updating the Moreover wizard and will output an HTML version that
                                                                includes div and span class attribute metadata - so hopefully this will be
                                                                useful.
                                                                Will give you a heads up before this goes live.
                                                                Cheers
                                                                Dave

                                                                . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
                                                                David Galbraith - Chief Architect, founder
                                                                Moreover.com - the dynamic web
                                                                david@...
                                                                415-577-8828 (US)
                                                                0777-565-8880 (UK)
                                                                favorite webfeed:
                                                                http://www.moreover.com/xml

                                                                > -----Original Message-----
                                                                > From: Seth Russell [mailto:seth@...]
                                                                > Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 2:50 PM
                                                                > To: rss-dev@yahoogroups.com
                                                                > Subject: Re: [RSS-DEV] Blogify && Peerkat
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                > From: "Rael Dornfest" <rael@...>
                                                                >
                                                                > > Aaron has done some wonderful work on Blogify service; I
                                                                > implore everyone
                                                                > to
                                                                > > amble over and take a gander at:
                                                                > >
                                                                > > http://logicerror.com/blogifyYourPage
                                                                >
                                                                > Kewl, very Kewl ! Now it seems that any web page (perhaps even
                                                                > email) can
                                                                > be an entry point to the semantic cloud.
                                                                >
                                                                > This probably has already been kicked around, but ....what if I
                                                                > only want to
                                                                > see new things on your page since last time I checked the feed? Couldn't
                                                                > we do that by putting a date inside the span tag, .. the date somehow
                                                                > flowing to the RSS file, so that now the server software would
                                                                > have the data
                                                                > it needs to select which items to show to a client based upon a last
                                                                > accessed date stored in their cookies?
                                                                >
                                                                > semtran: language=Semenglish class="rss:item" date="2001.03.22"
                                                                > Seth
                                                                > (still looking for programming help with) Sembrowser;
                                                                > mbox mailto:seth@... .
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                >
                                                                > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                                                                > rss-dev-unsubscribe@egroups.com
                                                                >
                                                                >
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