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Re: [rpg-create] looking for a term

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  • Torben AEgidius Mogensen
    ... I agree that dice pool isn t a good term, as that is normally used about systems where the number of dice depends on ability instead of difficulty. IIRC,
    Message 1 of 14 , Feb 1, 2010
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      On Sun, 31 Jan 2010, Larry D. Hols wrote:

      > What I'm looking for a is a term to describe what type of
      > system it is. It's not a dice pool, nor is it a standard constant-die
      > roll mechanism. The basic roll is 2d6. As the difficulty changes, the
      > roll changes to the best 2 of 3d, 4d, or 5d or the worst 2 of 3d, 4d,
      > or 5d. I'm just wondering if there's a good term to describe that
      > sort of dice usage.

      I agree that dice pool isn't a good term, as that is normally used
      about systems where the number of dice depends on ability instead of
      difficulty. IIRC, the term was originally only used when you had a
      pool of dice that you could distribute to several tasks, but not it
      seems to be used anywhere you have a variable number of dice that
      depend on ability.

      "Two of Nd6" would be a reasonable descriptive term, maybe shorted to
      "2 of N".

      Torben
    • Peter Knutsen
      ... I m reluctant to refer to my RPGs as being dice pool systems, both because it is inaccurate jargon (as per your description) and secondly because some
      Message 2 of 14 , Feb 1, 2010
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        On 01/02/2010 09:57, Torben AEgidius Mogensen wrote:
        > I agree that dice pool isn't a good term, as that is normally used
        > about systems where the number of dice depends on ability instead of
        > difficulty. IIRC, the term was originally only used when you had a
        > pool of dice that you could distribute to several tasks, but not it
        > seems to be used anywhere you have a variable number of dice that
        > depend on ability.

        I'm reluctant to refer to my RPGs as being "dice pool" systems, both
        because it is inaccurate jargon (as per your description) and secondly
        because some systems referred to (incorrectly) as dice pool systems,
        aand here I mean Storyteller, had badly designed roll mechanics.

        > "Two of Nd6" would be a reasonable descriptive term, maybe shorted to
        > "2 of N".

        Am I the only one who thinks Larry's roll mechanic sounds a bit slow?

        --
        Peter Knutsen
        sagatafl.org
      • Raven Daegmorgan
        ... I do as well. But...you know, Find your best two or Find your worst two isn t really that slow in play. Or at least I m thinking not based on
        Message 3 of 14 , Feb 1, 2010
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          Peter Knutsen wrote:
          >> "Two of Nd6" would be a reasonable descriptive term, maybe shorted to
          >> "2 of N".
          >
          > Am I the only one who thinks Larry's roll mechanic sounds a bit slow?

          I do as well. But...you know, "Find your best two" or "Find your worst
          two" isn't really that slow in play. Or at least I'm thinking not based
          on experiences with Sorcerer, which is "find the number of your dice
          showing higher than the highest number on his dice" -- which seems like
          it would be really slow in play, but ends up not being at all.

          - Raven
        • Raven Daegmorgan
          ... Variable drop system. Because you re dropping a number of either low or high dice for the result. - Raven
          Message 4 of 14 , Feb 1, 2010
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            Larry D. Hols wrote:
            > What I'm looking for a is a term to describe what type of
            > system it is. It's not a dice pool, nor is it a standard constant-die
            > roll mechanism. The basic roll is 2d6. As the difficulty changes, the
            > roll changes to the best 2 of 3d, 4d, or 5d or the worst 2 of 3d, 4d,
            > or 5d. I'm just wondering if there's a good term to describe that
            > sort of dice usage.
            >
            > Any suggestions?

            Variable drop system.

            Because you're dropping a number of either low or high dice for the result.

            - Raven
          • Torben AEgidius Mogensen
            ... I don t think it is too bad, as long as the number of dice doesn t get too high. Finding the highest or lowest in a set is faster than adding them and
            Message 5 of 14 , Feb 1, 2010
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              On Mon, 1 Feb 2010, Peter Knutsen wrote:

              > Am I the only one who thinks Larry's roll mechanic sounds a bit slow?

              I don't think it is too bad, as long as the number of dice doesn't get
              too high. Finding the highest or lowest in a set is faster than
              adding them and about the same as counting how many is over a
              threshold. Adding the selected dice isn't too bad, as there are only
              two of them, and adding 2d6 is done in so many games that most people
              are pretty well trained in it (to the point where they just recognise
              a pattern of dots and "see" the sum).

              Where I'm a bit sceptical is that you sometimes add the two highest
              dice and sometimes the two lowest dice. That could get a bit
              confusing.

              Torben
            • Peter Knutsen
              ... It doesn t sound dangerously slow to me, but speed issues was my first thought. Sagatafl s mechanic is pretty fast after a little practice, but it could be
              Message 6 of 14 , Feb 1, 2010
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                On 01/02/2010 10:19, Raven Daegmorgan wrote:
                > Peter Knutsen wrote:
                >> Am I the only one who thinks Larry's roll mechanic sounds a bit slow?
                >
                > I do as well. But...you know, "Find your best two" or "Find your worst
                > two" isn't really that slow in play. Or at least I'm thinking not based
                > on experiences with Sorcerer, which is "find the number of your dice
                > showing higher than the highest number on his dice" -- which seems like
                > it would be really slow in play, but ends up not being at all.

                It doesn't sound dangerously slow to me, but speed issues was my first
                thought. Sagatafl's mechanic is pretty fast after a little practice, but
                it could be that my concern is due to me not often thinking in terms of
                *few* dice. Larry appears to mention a maximum of 5 dice, which, if that
                is the true maximum, mitigates some of the speed issues.


                I recommend using dice with pips for Modern Action RPG, rather than dice
                with numbers (it uses six-siders only), because sucesses are fives and
                sixes, and those are faster to spot on pipped dice than on numbered
                dice. Likewise, a Fumble occurs only if all dice come up ones, an
                occurance that is also faster to spot with pipped dice.

                Perhaps Larry's roll mechanic would also be faster with pipped dice than
                with numbered dice? It isn't obvious to me that this is the case, but I
                think perhaps he he ought to experiment. It shouldn't be hard to get
                hold of 5 or even 6 pipped dice. Here in Denmark they're common in
                yathzee sets, so if Larry lived here he ought to be able to borrow a set
                from a friend or relative (thus not having to buy new dice just in order
                to perform experiments[1]).


                [1] I bought my sets of pipped 12mm six-siders from Chessex in the UK
                some years ago, and they were quite cheap (80d6, five different
                colours), so if Larry does end up recommending the use of pipped dice,
                it's no great hurdle, especially if a roll never requires more than 5
                (or perhaps 6).

                --
                Peter Knutsen
                sagatafl.org
              • Peter Knutsen
                ... Hence my suggestion that Larry look into using pipped dice. ... I guess that was my concern as well. If it had just been sum the best two I wouldn t have
                Message 7 of 14 , Feb 1, 2010
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                  On 01/02/2010 10:26, Torben AEgidius Mogensen wrote:
                  > I don't think it is too bad, as long as the number of dice doesn't get
                  > too high. Finding the highest or lowest in a set is faster than
                  > adding them and about the same as counting how many is over a
                  > threshold. Adding the selected dice isn't too bad, as there are only
                  > two of them, and adding 2d6 is done in so many games that most people
                  > are pretty well trained in it (to the point where they just recognise
                  > a pattern of dots and "see" the sum).

                  Hence my suggestion that Larry look into using pipped dice.

                  > Where I'm a bit sceptical is that you sometimes add the two highest
                  > dice and sometimes the two lowest dice. That could get a bit
                  > confusing.

                  I guess that was my concern as well. If it had just been "sum the best
                  two" I wouldn't have mentioned or had speed concerns.

                  --
                  Peter Knutsen
                  sagatafl.org
                • Malckuss
                  Chessex is a big seller in the US, too, due largely in part to games like Warhammer 40k. As I type this, a 36 count black block of their d6 s sit in front of
                  Message 8 of 14 , Feb 1, 2010
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                    Chessex is a big seller in the US, too, due largely in part to games like Warhammer 40k. As I type this, a 36 count black block of their d6's sit in front of my monitor.



                    The world kneels before love. It is humbled and awed by it.

                    --- On Mon, 2/1/10, Peter Knutsen <list@...> wrote:

                    From: Peter Knutsen <list@...>
                    Subject: Re: [rpg-create] looking for a term
                    To: rpg-create@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Monday, February 1, 2010, 3:29 AM







                     









                    On 01/02/2010 10:19, Raven Daegmorgan wrote:

                    > Peter Knutsen wrote:

                    >> Am I the only one who thinks Larry's roll mechanic sounds a bit slow?

                    >

                    > I do as well. But...you know, "Find your best two" or "Find your worst

                    > two" isn't really that slow in play. Or at least I'm thinking not based

                    > on experiences with Sorcerer, which is "find the number of your dice

                    > showing higher than the highest number on his dice" -- which seems like

                    > it would be really slow in play, but ends up not being at all.



                    It doesn't sound dangerously slow to me, but speed issues was my first

                    thought. Sagatafl's mechanic is pretty fast after a little practice, but

                    it could be that my concern is due to me not often thinking in terms of

                    *few* dice. Larry appears to mention a maximum of 5 dice, which, if that

                    is the true maximum, mitigates some of the speed issues.



                    I recommend using dice with pips for Modern Action RPG, rather than dice

                    with numbers (it uses six-siders only), because sucesses are fives and

                    sixes, and those are faster to spot on pipped dice than on numbered

                    dice. Likewise, a Fumble occurs only if all dice come up ones, an

                    occurance that is also faster to spot with pipped dice.



                    Perhaps Larry's roll mechanic would also be faster with pipped dice than

                    with numbered dice? It isn't obvious to me that this is the case, but I

                    think perhaps he he ought to experiment. It shouldn't be hard to get

                    hold of 5 or even 6 pipped dice. Here in Denmark they're common in

                    yathzee sets, so if Larry lived here he ought to be able to borrow a set

                    from a friend or relative (thus not having to buy new dice just in order

                    to perform experiments[ 1]).



                    [1] I bought my sets of pipped 12mm six-siders from Chessex in the UK

                    some years ago, and they were quite cheap (80d6, five different

                    colours), so if Larry does end up recommending the use of pipped dice,

                    it's no great hurdle, especially if a roll never requires more than 5

                    (or perhaps 6).



                    --

                    Peter Knutsen

                    sagatafl.org























                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Larry D. Hols
                    Hallo, ... Five dice is the max rolled. Speed also isn t a major concern; this system is relatively simple and quick, which is what I wanted. It s fast enough
                    Message 9 of 14 , Feb 1, 2010
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                      Hallo,

                      >Larry appears to mention a maximum of 5 dice, which, if that
                      >is the true maximum, mitigates some of the speed issues.

                      Five dice is the max rolled. Speed also isn't a major
                      concern; this system is relatively simple and quick, which is what I
                      wanted. It's fast enough to work for the audience I expect for the
                      game, so it meets my requirement for speed.


                      >Perhaps Larry's roll mechanic would also be faster with pipped dice than
                      >with numbered dice? It isn't obvious to me that this is the case, but I
                      >think perhaps he he ought to experiment. It shouldn't be hard to get
                      >hold of 5 or even 6 pipped dice. Here in Denmark they're common in
                      >yathzee sets, so if Larry lived here he ought to be able to borrow a set
                      >from a friend or relative (thus not having to buy new dice just in order
                      >to perform experiments[1]).

                      Heh. I'm a long time Champions player. I have about sixty
                      pipped d6 just for Champions, so I've got plenty to play with. I just
                      recently played a game with some friends that involved having to sort
                      multiple-d6 rolls to compare dice from highest to lowest and we used
                      pipped dice for that. It's a reasonably quick process.

                      What I've not done is try it with numbered dice. I have some,
                      spread out in different sets, so I think I can round up enough to try
                      it out. I suspect, though, that not using more than five dice at any
                      time will mean that sort is also fairly quick. As the majority of the
                      rolls in play I expect to involve only two or three dice, the
                      handling time for the five dice rolls is likely not to be noticeable
                      in play, as it may only add a moment or two.

                      Larry
                    • Frank Sronce
                      I ve used basically the same system before and it s decently fast. At least as fast as adding up all of X dice. Slower than a single die, of course, but I
                      Message 10 of 14 , Feb 1, 2010
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                        I've used basically the same system before and it's decently fast. At
                        least as fast as adding up all of X dice. Slower than a single die, of
                        course, but I definitely prefer dice systems where extreme results are
                        rarer.

                        Kiz



                        Raven Daegmorgan wrote:
                        > Peter Knutsen wrote:
                        >>> "Two of Nd6" would be a reasonable descriptive term, maybe shorted to
                        >>> "2 of N".
                        >> Am I the only one who thinks Larry's roll mechanic sounds a bit slow?
                        >
                        > I do as well. But...you know, "Find your best two" or "Find your worst
                        > two" isn't really that slow in play. Or at least I'm thinking not based
                        > on experiences with Sorcerer, which is "find the number of your dice
                        > showing higher than the highest number on his dice" -- which seems like
                        > it would be really slow in play, but ends up not being at all.
                        >
                        > - Raven
                        >
                        >
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