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Re: [rpg-create] Re: HAGIS: No one cares what the hell it stands for

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  • Peter Elster
    ... I m still there and listening. The problem is I started working two months ago and don t have so much time/internet access anymore. But I am still working
    Message 1 of 9 , Aug 1, 2007
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      > >
      > Some good thoughts which I will consider in my quest for gaming
      > goodness. You bet your ass, I'll post more stuff when the rules roll
      > in. Thanks for the comments.
      >
      > Best,
      >
      > ~AoB
      >

      I'm still there and listening. The problem is I started working two months ago and don't have so much time/internet access anymore. But I am still working on my Element system. Just expanded to ten classes and four races. So far it looks good, but I need some time to concetrate and start writing world/history. Fat chance as far as I can see. So it will be done in bits and pieces on the train or some such.

      If anyone is interested, I can try and post more.

      best from
      --
      Peter Elster

      Disclaimer
      The opinions expressed herein are not necessarily those
      of my employer, not necessarily mine, and probably not
      necessary.

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    • Peter Elster
      ... As for the acronym, I agree with Talus. Some explanation somewhere is nice, but in the end the acronym is the name, and people will connect what they read
      Message 2 of 9 , Aug 1, 2007
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        > --- In rpg-create@yahoogroups.com, JAPartridge <japartridge@...> wrote:
        > >
        > > On 7/30/07, Adaen of Bridgewater <adaen@...> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > I'm gearing my game developments back up and tracking my progress
        > on my
        > > > site and would appreciate any input/comments:
        > > > For the time being,
        > > > I'm going with "High Adventure Games Implemental System".
        > > > Implemental, as in implement or tool.
        > > > Cheers for now,
        > > >
        > > > ~Adaen of Bridgewater
        > > >
        > >
        > > Implemental System sounds awkward to my ear. I'd go with High Adventure
        > > Games Implementation System, being a system for implementing high
        > adventure
        > > games. It just sounds better to me.
        > >
        > > As for acronyms go, hey a lot of other retro things are coming back
        > so why
        > > not they? :)
        > >
        > > Be sure to post some samples once you start writing rules. This
        > list has
        > > been too quite for too long.
        > >
        > > Talus
        > >
        > >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        > >
        > Some good thoughts which I will consider in my quest for gaming
        > goodness. You bet your ass, I'll post more stuff when the rules roll
        > in. Thanks for the comments.
        >
        > Best,
        >
        > ~AoB
        >

        As for the acronym, I agree with Talus. Some explanation somewhere is nice, but in the end the acronym is the name, and people will connect what they read with the name. The system would be called and known as HAGIS, not as five long words no-one can remember :-)

        Just my two cents.
        --
        Peter Elster

        Disclaimer
        The opinions expressed herein are not necessarily those
        of my employer, not necessarily mine, and probably not
        necessary.

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      • Peter Knutsen
        ... Are you aware of the existence of HARP from Iron Crown Enterprises? The name of your system sounds a bit like theirs. ... So it isn t a stand-alone system?
        Message 3 of 9 , Aug 5, 2007
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          Adaen of Bridgewater wrote:
          > I'm gearing my game developments back up and tracking my progress on my
          > site and would appreciate any input/comments:
          >
          >
          > http://highadventuregames.wordpress.com/2007/07/30/hagis-no-one-cares-wh\
          > at-the-hell-it-stands-for/
          > <http://highadventuregames.wordpress.com/2007/07/30/hagis-no-one-cares-w\
          > hat-the-hell-it-stands-for/>
          > I've determined that too much time has been spent by me trying to
          > fit a witty acronym to HAGIS, my game houserule/homebrew game effort
          > <http://highadventuregames.wordpress.com/our-games/hagis/> . It has
          > largely centered around the following: "what does the second vowel
          > stand for…and do people `get it'?" Is it:
          > * High Adventure Games Integrated System,
          > * High Adventure Games Invocation System,
          > * High Adventure Games Implemental System,
          > * High Adventure Games Ingratiating System,
          > * High Adventure Games Impertinent System,
          > * High Adventure Games Illegitimate System, or
          > * High Adventure Games Inexcusable System?…..a la, Ron
          > Edward's Fantasy Heart Breakers
          > <http://www.indie-rpgs.com/articles/9/>
          >
          > [Let's Go!] OK, I know that using an acronym for a game system is SO
          > 1980's, but this is my game project and if I want to name it with an
          > acronym steeped in not-so-subtle Scottish food connotations, I will. If
          > I want Ninja-Space-Monkey Pirates in drag to serve a critical role in
          > the design….well, then there'll be that too.

          Are you aware of the existence of HARP from Iron Crown Enterprises? The
          name of your system sounds a bit like theirs.

          > Some of the above proposed acronym definitions were planted just to be
          > silly (and just added to this post for fun), but the bottom line is
          > this: It really doesn't matter too much what it stands for. It is
          > just HAGIS. What it means or stands for may change. For the time being,
          > I'm going with "High Adventure Games Implemental System".
          > Implemental, as in implement or tool.
          >
          > That's what the whole HAGIS
          > <http://highadventuregames.wordpress.com/our-games/hagis/> project is
          > all about really, developing ideas and tools that will add more High
          > Adventure to existing games (via the time honored use of house rules)

          So it isn't a stand-alone system?

          > and aid in the development of whole new games. In fact, one of the key
          > motivators for the HAGIS project was to formalize the design of my Aega
          > Mythea <http://highadventuregames.wordpress.com/our-games/aega-mythea/>
          > fantasy game. It had stalled and I felt the need to refocus and better
          > define what I was trying to do. HAGIS is central to that refocusing
          > effort. And hey, it might actually be useful to someone else.
          [...]

          What I do it I come up with character systems, in the sense of
          individuals with interesting combinations of abilities, and then I throw
          them at my system to see if they can be creatable within the rules,
          without the player needing to go to the GM and ask for special
          treatment, increased flexibility, or anything like that.

          Sometimes, though, I go the other way around, coming up with an
          interesting ability, which I then contemplate and, if I end up feeling
          good about it, add to the system.

          But the first part is the most important, so that may be something you'd
          want to try.

          It can also be an interesting challenge to try to model a specific
          character in a system. I did that, many years ago in
          rec.games.frp.advocacy with Mary Kuhner, testing Sagatafl (then under
          its working title FFRE), and it went quite well. But then again, Mary's
          character was the kind that you'd expect to be model-able in any type 2
          system, so it wasn't a real challenge, in that it did not rely upon
          synergies, or on real world facts which are rarely modelled in RPG rules
          systems.

          --
          Peter Knutsen
          sagatafl.org
        • Peter Knutsen
          ... What are those ten character classes in your system? Modern Action RPG now has 50 character subtypes, or classes. The 50th, Special/Advanced, was added
          Message 4 of 9 , Aug 5, 2007
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            Peter Elster wrote:
            > I'm still there and listening. The problem is I started working two months ago and don't have so much time/internet access anymore. But I am still working on my Element system. Just expanded to ten classes and four races. So far it looks good, but I need some time to concetrate and start writing world/history. Fat chance as far as I can see. So it will be done in bits and pieces on the train or some such.
            >
            > If anyone is interested, I can try and post more.

            What are those ten character classes in your system?

            Modern Action RPG now has 50 character subtypes, or classes. The 50th,
            Special/Advanced, was added last month. The idea probably originated in
            May or June, but it took me a while to decide that I liked it.

            So far, I believe I've axed perhaps 3 subtypes.

            Combat/Ninja was just too much of a hybrid - you can re-create a ninja
            just fine, using one of the other subtypes, and on top of that there was
            a character sheet space problem (with the Ninja subtype axed, none of
            the remaining Custom Combat skills contains more than 6 subskills,
            whereas the Ninja had 15!).

            Another was the Skilled/Expert, and it got the axe because I decided to
            remove the Expertise skill trait, which I had decided was boring and
            stupid and quite poinltess. Since this was what the Skilled/Expert
            subtype was all about, it had to go too.

            The third was a hybrid of the Special/Lucky and the Special/Mystic
            subtype. I like the idea of this kind of "divine
            sending"/"avatar"/"saint" type character, but without something to make
            it stand out game-mechanically, you might as well re-create it by just
            making a Special/Lucky character and then taking both Luck traits and
            Faith Mystic Gifts, or making a Special/Mystic character and then taking
            both Luck trait and Faith Mystic Gifts. On top of this, I couldn't think
            of a good name for the subtype.

            So, a round 50 subtypes it is.

            --
            Peter Knutsen
            sagatafl.org
          • Peter Elster
            ... Well, I forget the exact names (and would have to translate them first), but it s like this. So far the character creation is based on two steps. The first
            Message 5 of 9 , Aug 6, 2007
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              Peter Knutsen wrote:
              > What are those ten character classes in your system?

              Well, I forget the exact names (and would have to translate them first), but it's like this.

              So far the character creation is based on two steps. The first is the choice of 12 skills. These skills all belong to a thematic group (element) and a systematic one (battle, magic, subterfuge/miscellaneous). Skills are developed by spending points, the skills of the character's element being the cheapest. An additional element bonus is calculated like that: one fire skill at bonus 1 -> fire bonus 1. Two skills at bonus 2 -> fire bonus 2 etc. So the choice of skills determines how good one can get. Matter of concentration maybe.

              The class so far just determines how many skills from each type one has. Warrior - six battle, six miscellaneous, Thief - four of each, Mage - eight magic, four miscellaneous and so on through all possible combinations of 4, 6 and 8, adding up to ten, I think.

              Then the class should get an additional bonus not based on level (levels are supposed to be attained by experience from successful actions, boring and old, I know, but I just like it best. At each level you get points for skills, and skill prices vary according to element. So the choice of skills by element determines whether you can advance quickly or not.), but on overall skill level. So far they are called circles. For a Mage to get the - yet unknown - benefit of the fifth circle, he would need all his 12 skills at level 5.

              Then players can join organizations like armies, underground groups, guilds etc. Advancemant in org. ranks calls for equal levels in four skills, but these skills will come from two elements. This is supposed to mean that there are a number of incentives for players to go different ways with their skill development. You can try maxing out the element bonus for success in actions, you can try maxing the class bonus, meaning keeping all skills at the same level, or you can go for higher rank in your organization of choice, meaning leveling four skills of different elements.

              So with four races and 10 classes, that's enough choices for me.

              Any comments?
              --
              Peter Elster

              Disclaimer
              The opinions expressed herein are not necessarily those
              of my employer, not necessarily mine, and probably not
              necessary.

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            • Adaen of Bridgewater
              Hi Peter, Good to hear from you. I ve added my comments below. ... The ... Yes, I am aware of the similarity. However, my use of High Adventure Games and
              Message 6 of 9 , Aug 7, 2007
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                Hi Peter,

                Good to hear from you. I've added my comments below.
                --- In rpg-create@yahoogroups.com, Peter Knutsen <list@...> wrote:
                >
                ----snip-----
                >
                > Are you aware of the existence of HARP from Iron Crown Enterprises?
                The
                > name of your system sounds a bit like theirs.


                Yes, I am aware of the similarity. However, my use of "High Adventure
                Games" and the www.highadventuregames.com
                <http://www.highadventuregames.com> domain predates HARP. My use of the
                term HAGIS is relatively recent, however. I don't feel that anyone will
                confuse HARP and HAGIS.....though they may think its a
                beer'n'sheep-stomach party if they are mentioned together.

                ------snip--------
                > So it isn't a stand-alone system?

                Not entirely , no. It began as a tool for me in refining and
                documenting my Aega Mythea game which *will* be a standalone game. I
                currently play it as one, but I have a lot of writing to do to get it
                down on paper (er, electronic paper). One of my problems is that I have
                a lot of ideas for what make games fun in general that don't belong in
                the same game necessarily. HAGIS is meant to capture them so that I
                don't try to use them all in Aega Mythea (which is what I had been doing
                for fear of "wasting" good ideas). I also use the HAGIS
                principles/ingredients to "tweak" existing games. HAGIS is essentially
                an organizational tool for all the bits and pieces that I can use in my
                designs/tweaks. I'm currently, using HAGIS to modify Call of Cthulhu for
                a streamlined one-off session with my wife (a non-gamer who definitely
                would rather tune down CoC's crunch). HAGIS is helping immensely with
                that (I'll be posting a session summary along with the HAGIS
                rules...aka, the HAGIS Recipe on my site once we've played).


                >
                > [...]
                >
                > What I do it I come up with character systems, in the sense of
                > individuals with interesting combinations of abilities, and then I
                throw
                > them at my system to see if they can be creatable within the rules,
                > without the player needing to go to the GM and ask for special
                > treatment, increased flexibility, or anything like that.
                >
                > Sometimes, though, I go the other way around, coming up with an
                > interesting ability, which I then contemplate and, if I end up feeling
                > good about it, add to the system.
                >
                > But the first part is the most important, so that may be something
                you'd
                > want to try.


                Good thoughts. That seems like a good way to test things out.

                > It can also be an interesting challenge to try to model a specific
                > character in a system. I did that, many years ago in
                > rec.games.frp.advocacy with Mary Kuhner, testing Sagatafl (then under
                > its working title FFRE), and it went quite well. But then again,
                Mary's
                > character was the kind that you'd expect to be model-able in any type
                2
                > system, so it wasn't a real challenge, in that it did not rely upon
                > synergies, or on real world facts which are rarely modelled in RPG
                rules
                > systems.
                >
                > --
                > Peter Knutsen
                > sagatafl.org
                >



                Thanks for your comments,



                ~Adaen of Bridgewater, www.highadventuregames.com
                <http://www.highadventuregames.com>






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