Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: electra rebuild update

Expand Messages
  • Tim
    Hi Dejan. A few comments on your rebuild to hopefully help make things a bit sweeter for you: There are several US makers of the main brgs for the electra X,
    Message 1 of 5 , Jul 1, 2009
      Hi Dejan.
      A few comments on your rebuild to hopefully help make things a bit sweeter for you:
      There are several US makers of the main brgs for the electra X, the bearings are a very common type. Seems odd that you could not find any thing?
      Raising the compression and not reseting the timing will cause you nothing but grief!
      Did you you recheck the Squish band clearance?
      If you have not, you may expect a short lived engine...
      :-(
      It would also be advised to install a 'timing' window in the primary cover, timing is a bit of a lottery and really does need to be verfied...
      What have you done to re time the cams?
      The std valve and ignition timing wont like the raised compression...

      What was wrong with your big end rollers that required renewal??
      By the time the rollers are in need of replacement the pin is not far behind...
      Have you rerouted the engine breather???
      If not then entrained water in the sump/oil, with its attendant isues will be ongoing...

      Check your ex haust guide for fit into the head.
      NOTHING locates the guide, and they are prone to coming loose when power output is increased, or if the motor runs too hot for too long.
      Machine a cirlip groove into the guide body to locate...

      Tim
      N.Z.


      --- In royalenfield@yahoogroups.com, "dejanpejovicstudios" <dejanpejovicstudios@...> wrote:
      >
      > I, and a machinist, are putting my engine back together. We did mange to take apart the flywheel and replace the big end bearing with a US made one. I could not find US made main bearings. The oil pump gears and shaft, as well as the cams were made of very soft steel so I so I had those chrome plated. We milled the head to raise the compression to about 9.5/1. We rehoned the cylinder and teflon coated the piston skirt. Also did a 3 angle valve job. Having taken apart and analyzed the entire motor I have to say that Indian workmanship is even worse than you feared.
      > Dejan
      >
    • dejanpejovicstudios
      Hi Tim, The machinist, who is a race engine builder, couldn t find it among his usual sources so we looked no further. The big end: the engine was rebuilt a
      Message 2 of 5 , Jul 1, 2009
        Hi Tim,
        The machinist, who is a race engine builder, couldn't find it among his usual sources so we looked no further. The big end: the engine was rebuilt a year ago (main bearing failure), among the rebuild bearings and parts CMW sent their mechanic/dealer the wrong timing cover gasket which compromised an oil line. So when we took the engine apart everything was very worn (including the main bearings which only had 2500 miles on them) - a real mess.
        I'll show your comments to my mechanic and keep you updated.
        Thanks for your input.
        Dejan
        --- In royalenfield@yahoogroups.com, "Tim" <royalenfield@...> wrote:
        >
        > Hi Dejan.
        > A few comments on your rebuild to hopefully help make things a bit sweeter for you:
        > There are several US makers of the main brgs for the electra X, the bearings are a very common type. Seems odd that you could not find any thing?
        > Raising the compression and not reseting the timing will cause you nothing but grief!
        > Did you you recheck the Squish band clearance?
        > If you have not, you may expect a short lived engine...
        > :-(
        > It would also be advised to install a 'timing' window in the primary cover, timing is a bit of a lottery and really does need to be verfied...
        > What have you done to re time the cams?
        > The std valve and ignition timing wont like the raised compression...
        >
        > What was wrong with your big end rollers that required renewal??
        > By the time the rollers are in need of replacement the pin is not far behind...
        > Have you rerouted the engine breather???
        > If not then entrained water in the sump/oil, with its attendant isues will be ongoing...
        >
        > Check your ex haust guide for fit into the head.
        > NOTHING locates the guide, and they are prone to coming loose when power output is increased, or if the motor runs too hot for too long.
        > Machine a cirlip groove into the guide body to locate...
        >
        > Tim
        > N.Z.
        >
        >
        > --- In royalenfield@yahoogroups.com, "dejanpejovicstudios" <dejanpejovicstudios@> wrote:
        > >
        > > I, and a machinist, are putting my engine back together. We did mange to take apart the flywheel and replace the big end bearing with a US made one. I could not find US made main bearings. The oil pump gears and shaft, as well as the cams were made of very soft steel so I so I had those chrome plated. We milled the head to raise the compression to about 9.5/1. We rehoned the cylinder and teflon coated the piston skirt. Also did a 3 angle valve job. Having taken apart and analyzed the entire motor I have to say that Indian workmanship is even worse than you feared.
        > > Dejan
        > >
        >
      • Pete Snidal
        ... A CAR race engine builder , perhaps? My experience has been that Hot Rodders have little patience for learning the differences with motorcycle engines.
        Message 3 of 5 , Jul 1, 2009
          At 05:06 AM 7/1/2009, Dejan wrote:
          >The machinist, who is a race engine builder, couldn't find it among
          >his usual sources so we looked no further.

          A CAR "race engine builder", perhaps? My experience has been that Hot
          Rodders have little patience for learning the differences with
          motorcycle engines. they tend to look at them as
          lawnmower engines or something. Fixed a few of their problems over
          the years. _Hot_Rod_
          magazine is a BAD place to learn about bike engines!

          >The big end: the engine was rebuilt a year ago (main bearing
          >failure), among the rebuild bearings and parts CMW sent their
          >mechanic/dealer the wrong timing cover gasket which compromised an oil line.

          Which is why mechanics usually check gaskets against oil holes when
          assembling things.
          But, you know, I'm not so smart, either. Although I've done this
          every time since I can remember, I didn't have it in my manual -
          until now. Thanks!
          ----
          <h3>Replacing The Timing Cover</h3>
          First, ensure that the gasket faces are clean and scratch-free. Use a
          fresh gasket if at all possible. If replacing the gasket, ensure that
          all traces of the old gasket have been scraped off the faces carefully.
          DO ensure that all holes on both cases are matched to holes in the gasket -
          these are oil pressure passage holes to and from the pumps and are very
          important. A gasket sealer, such as Koppercote (TM), Aviation Permatex
          III(TM), or silicone, if used sparingly, may be applied to both metal surfaces
          before fitting the cover. Be sure that the holes mentioned above will not be
          obscured with gasket sealer - before and after tightening! ("sparingly.")
          --------

          The manual DOES say, however, to check for oil pressure after every oil change,
          by cracking the big end pressure feed quill bolt. And I'd think your
          rocker arms must
          have been squeaking so badly within a few miles that you'd know you
          had a plugged
          oil passage. I don't think it would ever make 2500 mi without oil
          pressure. Bummer, though!
          I mention this not to put you or your mechanic down, but in the hope
          that others will
          take a lesson from it for if their time ever comes. (hopefully not!)

          >So when we took the engine apart everything was very worn (including
          >the main bearings which only had 2500 miles on them) - a real mess.

          I can't imagine them making 2500 miles without oil - and a plugged
          timing cover - crankcase
          passage would mean no oil at all. But then, I can't imagine where
          CMW would even have gotten
          the "wrong" timing cover gasket - unless the AVL and CI gaskets are
          similar but different;
          ie will fit but won't work. (I'd like to know, though - if this is
          possible, it should be in the manual!)


          >-We milled the head to raise the compression to about 9.5/1.

          MILLED the head? See above re hot rodders.. The onliest way to
          raise compression
          on a m/c engine is to use a higher compression piston. Piston/valve
          clearances go to
          pieces long before you get to any real compression increase.

          >We rehoned the cylinder and teflon coated the piston skirt.

          And you "re-honed the cylinder" why? You might want to get your
          "mechanic" to read this:

          http://www.meridentriumphs.20m.com/rants/dnthone.htm

          Yup! Teflon, huh? Is that to reduce heat transfer, or maybe to fill
          in some of the extra
          clearance the honing job has/will give you, or what? Did you know
          that Dupont, the makers
          of Teflon(TM) specifically recommend against using it in engines?

          >Also did a 3 angle valve job.

          Always a good idea..

          >Having taken apart and analyzed the entire motor I have to say that
          >Indian workmanship is even worse than you feared.

          Uh-huh! They don't mill heads, they don't "rehone," they don't use
          Teflon(TM), and I'll bet they check their gaskets! And if I had a
          penny for every mile every Bullet has done in India, I'd be able to
          retire in style!

          But then, that's all just MY crazy, mixed-up opinions! (grin)



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • dejanpejovicstudios
          Hello Pete, Here is a picture of the offending gasket and the piston/cylinder. The mechanic isn t the hot-rodder you imagine. He is an old guy who has
          Message 4 of 5 , Jul 2, 2009
            Hello Pete,
            Here is a picture of the offending gasket and the piston/cylinder.
            The mechanic isn't the hot-rodder you imagine. He is an old guy who has built race cars and motorcycles all his life. I will discuss your comments with him and thanks for your input.
            Dejan
            /Users/dejanpejovic/Desktop/DEJ_2599.jpg/Users/dejanpejovic/Desktop/DEJ_2606.jpg/Users/dejanpejovic/Desktop/DEJ_2604.jpg
            
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.