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Re: [Enfield] waranty but no dealer

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  • Ken Walters
    I m certainly going to miss him. Such good service from someone of integrity is rare these days. 73s to you, Mike. Ken
    Message 1 of 9 , Jun 1, 2006
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      I'm certainly going to miss him. Such good service from someone of integrity is rare these days. 73s to you, Mike. Ken
    • Malcolm Fisher
      ... integrity is rare these days. 73s to you, Mike. Ken ... I wonder is it because he gave such good service that he is no longer in existance? I sometimes
      Message 2 of 9 , Jun 1, 2006
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        --- In royalenfield@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Walters" <kenwalters@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > I'm certainly going to miss him. Such good service from someone of
        integrity is rare these days. 73s to you, Mike. Ken
        >

        I wonder is it because he gave such good service that he is no longer
        in existance? I sometimes wonder just how feasible a business venture
        based on 100% integrity is, given the amount of wrong un's about to
        compete with? They are that will be cheaper though shoddy and a long
        term more expensive, it appears that most consumers/customers are
        bottom line as opposed to quality concious!
      • Bill "Slam" Dunkus
        Malc Against my better judgement, let me offer a perspective from the dealer s side. NO ONE in their right mind sells Enfield motorcycles because they
        Message 3 of 9 , Jun 1, 2006
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          Malc
          Against my better judgement, let me offer a perspective from the dealer's
          side. NO ONE in their right mind sells Enfield motorcycles because they
          realistically expect to make piles of money. With the exception of HD and
          Asian Mega-Dealers typically found in large metropolitan areas of the United
          States, motorcycle dealers are motorcyclists themselves whose love of the
          sport and enthusiasim for the brands that they sell drive them to do what
          they do. In my case a 40 year long (and counting) love affair for
          motorcycles has dragged me through almost every aspect of the "business"
          that I have been able to get my arms around up to and including currently
          owning a modest little shop in central rural Missouri surrounded by some of
          the finest motorcycling roads on the planet. I am defineately not
          complaining ! Motorcycles have been very good to me. We sell the Royal
          Enfield and Moto Guzzi both of which from a business perspective are not
          good investments BUT from a motorcycling purist's perspective are a couple
          of the world's finest two wheeled offerings. Our mission here is simple, to
          sell our motorcycles AND THEN to make every effort to make the people who
          buy our bikes HAPPY that they bought them here. We are not always successful
          but we strive toward that ellusive objective day after day, year after year.
          It sometimes seems like we are climbing a mountain with no summit, only ever
          lasting steep cliffs to overcome, but we do it anyway. We will never become
          wealthy doing it. I have learned over the many years that if I work really
          hard at it and put in the hours that the work demands I can, and damn sure
          should, earn a decent living for myself and my family. As a bonus I can
          spend my days surrounded mostly by people who understand the passion without
          explenation. That last part about the people is worth as much to me as the
          gold I have left behind staying out of the corporate world all of my adult
          life.
          I say all of that to arrive at this point. You ask how feasible a business
          venture is based on 100% integrity. That "integrity" that you seek stems
          from a loyalty on the part of your dealer for his motorcycle buyers. I
          answer how feasible is a business venture based on 100% integrity (loyalty)
          on the dealer's side when challenged by little or NO loyalty (integrity) on
          the consumer's side. Selling bikes like ours is a labor of love. It cannot
          ever be anything else. That labor of love becomes like a marriage between
          dealer and customer. How feasible is any marriage without loyalty being
          poured in equally from both sides.
          Don't get me wrong ! There are some TERRIBLE dealers out there and my hope
          for you and anyone else generous anough to spend this much time reading is
          that you do not have one nor that you ever encounter one. They are, based on
          my own experiences, the minuscule minority and they usually don't stay
          around long. But the next time you need something for your bike, a battery
          for example that your dealer probably stocks and hopes to sell for a small
          profit and will gladly sell it to you for $26-$29 that you could also order
          from JC Wittney for $18 and then go in endless search of the acid needed to
          activate it, ask yourself how much you are willing to pay for 100% integrity
          from your dealer. It might be worth $8-$10. It should be worth even more.
          Bill "Slam" Dunkus
          Interstate Motorcycles

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Malcolm Fisher" <malfisher1@...>
          To: <royalenfield@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 7:54 AM
          Subject: Re: [Enfield] waranty but no dealer


          > --- In royalenfield@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Walters" <kenwalters@...>
          > wrote:
          >>
          >> I'm certainly going to miss him. Such good service from someone of
          > integrity is rare these days. 73s to you, Mike. Ken
          >>
          >
          > I wonder is it because he gave such good service that he is no longer
          > in existance? I sometimes wonder just how feasible a business venture
          > based on 100% integrity is, given the amount of wrong un's about to
          > compete with? They are that will be cheaper though shoddy and a long
          > term more expensive, it appears that most consumers/customers are
          > bottom line as opposed to quality concious!
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > Your personal settings are at:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/royalenfield
          > Our old messages are at:
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/royalenfield/messages
          > To unsubscribe, send a blank email to
          > royalenfield-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Charles Warner
          Well stated, Bill. I support a couple little hole-in-the-wall motorcycle shops just because I want to keep them around! I could save money by ordering tires,
          Message 4 of 9 , Jun 1, 2006
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            Well stated, Bill.

            I support a couple little hole-in-the-wall motorcycle shops just because I want to keep them around! I could save money by ordering tires, etc from a mail order catalog or off the web and save a couple bucks, but I also selfishly want these guys around when I need a carb jet from their junk bin or the loan of a special tool. That's worth alot to me!

            For similar reasons I support a couple small gun shops rather than buy my guns/ammo/target/supplies from the big-box stores like Walmart. These are guys that deal in guns because they love the guns and the people they get to meet. Most of the clerks at the mega-stores couldn't even find what ammo fits the guns on their own shelf.

            Chuck in Arizona

            "Bill \"Slam\" Dunkus" <bdunkus@...> wrote:
            Malc
            Against my better judgement, let me offer a perspective from the dealer's
            side. NO ONE in their right mind sells Enfield motorcycles because they
            realistically expect to make piles of money. With the exception of HD and
            Asian Mega-Dealers typically found in large metropolitan areas of the United
            States, motorcycle dealers are motorcyclists themselves whose love of the
            sport and enthusiasim for the brands that they sell drive them to do what
            they do. In my case a 40 year long (and counting) love affair for
            motorcycles has dragged me through almost every aspect of the "business"
            that I have been able to get my arms around up to and including currently
            owning a modest little shop in central rural Missouri surrounded by some of
            the finest motorcycling roads on the planet. I am defineately not
            complaining ! Motorcycles have been very good to me. We sell the Royal
            Enfield and Moto Guzzi both of which from a business perspective are not
            good investments BUT from a motorcycling purist's perspective are a couple
            of the world's finest two wheeled offerings. Our mission here is simple, to
            sell our motorcycles AND THEN to make every effort to make the people who
            buy our bikes HAPPY that they bought them here. We are not always successful
            but we strive toward that ellusive objective day after day, year after year.
            It sometimes seems like we are climbing a mountain with no summit, only ever
            lasting steep cliffs to overcome, but we do it anyway. We will never become
            wealthy doing it. I have learned over the many years that if I work really
            hard at it and put in the hours that the work demands I can, and damn sure
            should, earn a decent living for myself and my family. As a bonus I can
            spend my days surrounded mostly by people who understand the passion without
            explenation. That last part about the people is worth as much to me as the
            gold I have left behind staying out of the corporate world all of my adult
            life.
            I say all of that to arrive at this point. You ask how feasible a business
            venture is based on 100% integrity. That "integrity" that you seek stems
            from a loyalty on the part of your dealer for his motorcycle buyers. I
            answer how feasible is a business venture based on 100% integrity (loyalty)
            on the dealer's side when challenged by little or NO loyalty (integrity) on
            the consumer's side. Selling bikes like ours is a labor of love. It cannot
            ever be anything else. That labor of love becomes like a marriage between
            dealer and customer. How feasible is any marriage without loyalty being
            poured in equally from both sides.
            Don't get me wrong ! There are some TERRIBLE dealers out there and my hope
            for you and anyone else generous anough to spend this much time reading is
            that you do not have one nor that you ever encounter one. They are, based on
            my own experiences, the minuscule minority and they usually don't stay
            around long. But the next time you need something for your bike, a battery
            for example that your dealer probably stocks and hopes to sell for a small
            profit and will gladly sell it to you for $26-$29 that you could also order
            from JC Wittney for $18 and then go in endless search of the acid needed to
            activate it, ask yourself how much you are willing to pay for 100% integrity
            from your dealer. It might be worth $8-$10. It should be worth even more.
            Bill "Slam" Dunkus
            Interstate Motorcycles

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Malcolm Fisher" <malfisher1@...>
            To: <royalenfield@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 7:54 AM
            Subject: Re: [Enfield] waranty but no dealer


            > --- In royalenfield@yahoogroups.com, "Ken Walters" <kenwalters@...>
            > wrote:
            >>
            >> I'm certainly going to miss him. Such good service from someone of
            > integrity is rare these days. 73s to you, Mike. Ken
            >>
            >
            > I wonder is it because he gave such good service that he is no longer
            > in existance? I sometimes wonder just how feasible a business venture
            > based on 100% integrity is, given the amount of wrong un's about to
            > compete with? They are that will be cheaper though shoddy and a long
            > term more expensive, it appears that most consumers/customers are
            > bottom line as opposed to quality concious!
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Your personal settings are at:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/royalenfield
            > Our old messages are at:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/royalenfield/messages
            > To unsubscribe, send a blank email to
            > royalenfield-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >




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          • glssgrg
            Bill and Chuck, So true! I spent 30 years in the yacht business, and out customers were very willing to lecture us on the subject of total integrity,
            Message 5 of 9 , Jun 1, 2006
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              Bill and Chuck,
              So true! I spent 30 years in the yacht business, and out customers were very willing to
              lecture us on the subject of "total integrity," conveniently forgetting that they had
              completely mis-represented their trade. I'm not talking oversights, I'm talking a marine
              gear designed for ATF, found full of 90 wt, to cover the howl. Engines so rusty that I knew
              they had 1000 hours, but the Hobbs meter showed 150, and looky here, brand-new
              terminals on the meter wiring. There was a 33' Ulrichsen, lapstrake planked and 20 years
              old, that the owner proudly demonstrated "doesn't leak a drop." I insisted on a test run,
              took her up to high cruise for a half-hour, came back to the berth, and she made an inch
              per hour. He had parked her on a mudflat for a few days, which will temporarily clog up
              the seams.
              As to warranty, well, EVERYONE was"just driving along and it broke." We'd find all the
              bearings shot from lack of oil, or the diesel tanks half full of water. There was the 37' Egg
              that developed an unexplained leak, but when we hauled her, there were deep gouges in
              the planking still showing red paint from the buoy he had run over at full speed.

              Integrity cuts both ways. I deal with an independent shop, GT Custom Cycles, Forked River,
              NJ. Geoff is honest with me, and I with him. I BUY STUFF FROM HIM! I want him in business
              next week, when I might need him. I've gone into his shop waving 100 dollar bills, only to
              have him tell me, don't bother, that item doesn't work. Think JC Whitney is going to do
              that?
              CMW has treated me beyond well, and of course there are items I can get nowhere else,
              but I just bought a Bosch Blue coil from them that I could get down the street.

              It's called a business relationship, but you don't establish one by screwing the dealer/
              independent for the last nickel by buying online, then take it to him when you can't make
              it work.

              DWM
            • Malcolm Fisher
              ... You ask how feasible a business ... stems ... buyers. I ... (loyalty) ... (integrity) on ... It cannot ... between ... being ... Hi Bill I can assure you I
              Message 6 of 9 , Jun 1, 2006
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                --- In royalenfield@yahoogroups.com, "Bill \"Slam\" Dunkus"
                <bdunkus@...> wrote:
                >
                > Malc
                You ask how feasible a business
                > venture is based on 100% integrity. That "integrity" that you seek
                stems
                > from a loyalty on the part of your dealer for his motorcycle
                buyers. I
                > answer how feasible is a business venture based on 100% integrity
                (loyalty)
                > on the dealer's side when challenged by little or NO loyalty
                (integrity) on
                > the consumer's side. Selling bikes like ours is a labor of love.
                It cannot
                > ever be anything else. That labor of love becomes like a marriage
                between
                > dealer and customer. How feasible is any marriage without loyalty
                being
                > poured in equally from both sides.> Bill "Slam" Dunkus
                > Interstate Motorcycles
                >


                Hi Bill

                I can assure you I seek nothing that I would not reciprocate.
                As part of my question, which was really just more a whimsical
                conversation and rhetorical more than a serious enquiry, I said:

                "it appears that most consumers/customers are bottom line as opposed
                to quality concious!"

                I think I allready got the picture, no?

                Malc.
              • Andy Metcalfe
                IMHO, Small dealers can be hard to gauge. Take two I ve dealth with, both of whom would be laughed out of the franchise managers office at a car manufacturer.
                Message 7 of 9 , Jun 2, 2006
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                  IMHO, Small dealers can be hard to gauge. Take two I've dealth with,
                  both of whom would be laughed out of the franchise managers office
                  at a car manufacturer.

                  Our local Aprillia agent started off well. He'd get "all makes" bits
                  at decent prices and be there for you. The problem was, he didn't
                  make enough, got into selling second hand cars and his good mechanic
                  quit. The remaining grease monkeys you couldn't trust to sell you
                  the right chain lube.

                  The second dealer is well established and now sell Enfields. In
                  order to stay in business he has a simple policy, he charges what he
                  can and only does the work he wants to. This is great if you know
                  it. Want a gearbox rebuilt, wait 8-10 weeks, pay and you get a first
                  rate service. Catch him in the right mood and he'll swap a Guzzi
                  valve for you while you wait. Ring up wanting an oil change and
                  you'll get "we might be able to do it next week or the one after".
                  This is Ok if you are used to the place, but not if you are a new
                  customer who's used to Nissan and is frightened of invalidating a
                  warrenty by dropping the oil at home.

                  So, with a big enough bike park (city of 1 million in this case),
                  you can have your cake and eat it. Buy spark plugs and oil mail
                  order and have the gearbox rebuilder to hand. Without this bike park
                  you have to pay specialist prices for silly little bits.

                  The warrenty thing I can understand. Personally I simply go back to
                  the dealer and say "this broke" before gauging what they want to
                  hear. Simple fact is that in normal use things shouldn't break.
                  However, go to BMW with a "I got the bike from you, I rode it 2
                  miles, filled with petrol and the engine siezed" and all you'll get
                  back is "the manual says to check the oil at each ride, it's your
                  fault for not noticing we'd put none in". The good dealer gets the
                  real story from the rider, fixes the machine and write a vauge
                  report to claim the value of the work. A bad dealer plays policeman
                  for the importers lawyers, so you tell him a tale of how you did
                  nothing wrong.

                  Andy
                • Bill "Slam" Dunkus
                  Malc YES! my essay intends to enhance your assumption! Slam ... From: Malcolm Fisher To: Sent: Thursday,
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jun 2, 2006
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                    Malc
                    YES!
                    my essay intends to enhance your assumption!
                    Slam

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "Malcolm Fisher" <malfisher1@...>
                    To: <royalenfield@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Thursday, June 01, 2006 5:01 PM
                    Subject: Re: [Enfield] waranty but no dealer


                    > --- In royalenfield@yahoogroups.com, "Bill \"Slam\" Dunkus"
                    > <bdunkus@...> wrote:
                    >>
                    >> Malc
                    > You ask how feasible a business
                    >> venture is based on 100% integrity. That "integrity" that you seek
                    > stems
                    >> from a loyalty on the part of your dealer for his motorcycle
                    > buyers. I
                    >> answer how feasible is a business venture based on 100% integrity
                    > (loyalty)
                    >> on the dealer's side when challenged by little or NO loyalty
                    > (integrity) on
                    >> the consumer's side. Selling bikes like ours is a labor of love.
                    > It cannot
                    >> ever be anything else. That labor of love becomes like a marriage
                    > between
                    >> dealer and customer. How feasible is any marriage without loyalty
                    > being
                    >> poured in equally from both sides.> Bill "Slam" Dunkus
                    >> Interstate Motorcycles
                    >>
                    >
                    >
                    > Hi Bill
                    >
                    > I can assure you I seek nothing that I would not reciprocate.
                    > As part of my question, which was really just more a whimsical
                    > conversation and rhetorical more than a serious enquiry, I said:
                    >
                    > "it appears that most consumers/customers are bottom line as opposed
                    > to quality concious!"
                    >
                    > I think I allready got the picture, no?
                    >
                    > Malc.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Your personal settings are at:
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/royalenfield
                    > Our old messages are at:
                    > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/royalenfield/messages
                    > To unsubscribe, send a blank email to
                    > royalenfield-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
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