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Re: proving that rosacea is "all in the head"

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  • jillthrills@yahoo.com
    all in your head That is simply a wrong way of putting it. Its very real but the root of the cause is psychological. Unfortually BB research is never done
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 30, 2001
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      "all in your head" That is simply a wrong way of putting it. Its very
      real but the root of the cause is psychological. Unfortually BB
      research is never done unless there is a pill or method that creates
      a market.(but there is clear evidence that social anxiety and strong
      emotions cause blushing and flushing of the skin) It just so happens
      that they have possibly tried different hypothesis on rosacea but you
      will not find a physical cause because I'm sure that it's mental.
      Vascular cause would mean they could see this anomoly at the micro
      level, which thay can't. Your vascular function is normal from what I
      would believe.
      Later, Jill



      - In rosacea-support@y..., rkba1776@h... wrote:
      > To the folks who contend that rosacea is simply all in the head: I
      > ask YOU to post valid, peer-reviewed research references. Prove to
      > me that rosacea is NOT a physical disorder that is vascular in
      > nature. I promise you I will read and consider all such evidence
      you
      > present.
      >
      > If you can ask us to prove that rosacea is a physical disorder,
      it's
      > only fair that I can ask you to prove that it's not.
      >
      > Waiting,
      > BB
    • rkba1776@hotmail.com
      Jill, Okay, let s see if we can find some common ground here and then try and focus on the points we disagree on. You stated that there is clear evidence that
      Message 2 of 8 , May 1, 2001
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        Jill,

        Okay, let's see if we can find some common ground here and then try
        and focus on the points we disagree on.

        You stated that there is clear evidence that social anxiety and strong
        emotions cause blushing and flushing of the skin. I believe this to
        be entirely true. It's discussed in Dr. Nase's book, and I think
        (though I can't put my hands on any right now) there is plenty of
        research to back this statement up. This point is not in debate, at
        least not between you and I.

        So there's our common ground.

        On other issues, I still think you and I are unclear as to what the
        other is contending, and until we are clear, we won't be able to
        properly discuss the issues.

        Help me understand here: do you or do you not concede that, for
        whatever reason, physical or otherwise, rosacea sufferers tend to
        exhibit vascular structural and functional abnormalities that can be
        observed and noted by the trained observer?

        To help me understand your position, please pick the statement that
        most closely mirrors what you are trying to tell the group:

        (A) Rosaceans have a perfectly normal vascular system, in structure
        and in function. No physically noteworthy difference in their vessels
        exists when compared to non-sufferers. Their sole problem lies in
        blushing/flushing with an entirely controllable source grounded in
        social anxiety and emotions.

        (B) Rosaceans do indeed have an altered vascular system, in structure
        and function, when compared to non-sufferers. This damage, though,
        stems entirely from sustained and overly frequently flushing and
        blushing related to the sufferers social anxiety and emotions.

        (C) BB is totally off and doesn't understand Jill's position at all.
        :)

        I'm interested in getting this clarified so we can understand each
        other's position and possibly have some constructive debate.

        My final point before I let you respond would be to say that in
        general it is not the wisest move one can make to totally write off a
        hypothesis simply because scientists have yet to come up with
        convincing evidence. Medical technology is advancing at a great pace.
        Think back to 100, 50, or even 25 years ago and look at what we
        couldn't prove back then...some of it is common knowledge these days.

        Till later,
        BB

        --- In rosacea-support@y..., jillthrills@y... wrote:
        > "all in your head" That is simply a wrong way of putting it. Its
        very
        > real but the root of the cause is psychological. Unfortually BB
        > research is never done unless there is a pill or method that creates
        > a market.(but there is clear evidence that social anxiety and strong
        > emotions cause blushing and flushing of the skin) It just so happens
        > that they have possibly tried different hypothesis on rosacea but
        you
        > will not find a physical cause because I'm sure that it's mental.
        > Vascular cause would mean they could see this anomoly at the micro
        > level, which thay can't. Your vascular function is normal from what
        I
        > would believe.
        > Later, Jill
        >
      • rkba1776@hotmail.com
        Group, Jennifer Nase, Geoffrey s wife, has forwarded a response to our current debate on whether or not rosacea is a physical or mental-based condition. It
        Message 3 of 8 , May 1, 2001
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          Group,

          Jennifer Nase, Geoffrey's wife, has forwarded a response to our
          current debate on whether or not rosacea is a physical or
          mental-based condition. It was requested that I post it to the group
          for him, as he is very busy now, and Jennifer is unfamiliar with
          posting procedures.

          This is what was sent to me:

          *********************************

          Hello,

          My husband is away right now making up for lost time at work.
          However, he wanted to address one very common misconception that is
          still floating around - the misconception that rosacea is related to
          psychological disorders. Rosacea is NOT related to psychological
          disturbances. This disorder is not "in the patient's head". This
          psycho-babble only adds to the confusion and chaos that surrounds
          rosacea. Long before rosacea sufferers ever know about their
          underlying vascular disorder they are flushing to hot or warm rooms,
          sun exposure, exercise, stress, physical exertion, hot or spicy
          foods, topical skin care products, etc. Geoffrey stresses this point
          - rosacea is a physical disorder. This physical difference is
          responsible for the underlying vascular disorder. This is also
          backed up by a substantial number of clinical studies.

          Geoffrey asked me to post a portion of text from his book on this
          subject.


          Sincerely,

          Jennifer Nase, M.D.
          Board Certified Neurologist




          IX. PSYCHOLOGICAL DISTURBANCE --
          TRIGGER THAT IS NOT IMPORTANT


          Psychological disturbances are sometimes found in patients with
          inflammatory skin disorders and chronic illnesses. These patients
          may demonstrate symptoms such as extreme sadness, depression, stress,
          anxiety, and frustration. The key question that must be addressed
          is, "Does the sadness, depression, stress, anxiety, and frustration
          cause the skin disorder..... or does the unrelenting skin disorder
          cause the symptoms?"

          PSYCHOLOGICAL DISTURBANCES
          AND ROSACEA

          When a physician examines a rosacea sufferer, he often notices
          symptoms such as sadness, depression, anxiety, hopelessness, and
          frustration. A general physician who performs brief, incomplete
          examinations may conclude that the patient has an underlying
          psychological disorder, and that the patient's mental state is
          causing his or her rosacea. However, rosacea experts who perform
          in-depth examinations and question their patients rigorously will
          often come to much different conclusions; they usually find that the
          patient's rosacea is causing the sadness, depression, anxiety,
          hopelessness, and frustration. After thorough examination and
          questioning, medical experts often find that: (1) The patient has
          already seen countless physicians without much help, (2) The patient
          cannot perform normal activities without moderate facial flushing and
          aggravation of the disease, (3) The patient experiences daily burning
          sensations that interfere with his or her lifestyle, and (4) The
          patient has been given incorrect medical treatment in the past, or no
          real hope for leading a normal life. Of course patients will be
          saddened, depressed, anxious, hopeless and frustrated by this
          disorder
          and its prognosis!

          Medical experts who have performed in-depth examinations on rosacea
          patients indicate that underlying psychological disturbances do not
          cause rosacea:

          In a psychological study of 70 rosacea sufferers and 70 control
          subjects, Dr. Marks found that rosacea sufferers did not differ from
          control subjects. They were psychologically stable with no
          discernible
          psychiatric disorder or emotional trauma. (199)

          After extensive evaluation of 128 rosacea patients, Dr. Sobye
          concluded, "The majority of the patients were robust, well-balanced,
          and unaffected by their surroundings." (190)

          In a recent rosacea review article, Dr. Katz indicated that rosacea
          sufferers have completely normal psychological profiles. (250)

          Drs. White and colleagues documented that psychological factors did
          not play a role in the development of rosacea in their patients.
          (338)

          Medical experts point out that in most rosacea sufferers, it is much
          more likely that depression and psychological effects are a result of
          the rosacea, and not the cause of rosacea. (319)

          Dr. Ellis and Stawiski emphasize that rosacea is not caused by
          psychological disturbances and that, "As a rule, psychiatric
          treatment
          does not aid the physical changes of acne rosacea." (192)





          REFERENCES



          190. Sobye, P. "Aetiology and pathogenesis of rosacea". Acta Derm
          Venereol 30: 137-157, 1950.

          192. Ellis, C.N. and M.A. Stawiski. "The treatment of perioral
          dermatitis, acne rosacea, and seborrheic dermatitis". Med Clin North
          Am 66: 819-830, 1982.

          199. Marks, R. "Concepts in the pathogenesis of rosacea". Br J
          Dermatol 80: 170-177, 1968.

          250. Katz, A.M. Rosacea: epidemiology and pathogenesis. J Cutan
          Med Surg 2 Suppl 4: S4-10, 1998.

          319. Marks, R. and D.S. Wilkinson. "Rosacea and perioral
          dermatitis". In: Textbook of Dermatology, edited by R. Marks and D.S.
          Wilkinson. Blackwell Scientific Publication, 1986, p. 1433-1438.

          338. White, J.M., A.M. Jones, and J.G. Ingham. "A rorschach study
          of the neurodermatoses". J Psychosomatic Res 1: 841956.
        • jillthrills@yahoo.com
          -- Ok, I will challenge that theory Jennifer and ask you to send the board Valid scientific study of your reaserch(not snipits of various unconfirmed
          Message 4 of 8 , May 2, 2001
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            --
            Ok, I will challenge that theory Jennifer and ask you to send the
            board Valid scientific study of your reaserch(not snipits of various
            unconfirmed sources)THE ACTUAL DATA. Has it been posted in a REAL
            medical journal, if not it's not valid only unconfirmed testing. Of
            course Dr. Nase is going to say this is a physical disorder, he is
            selling a book on the fact, also he had major face sugery done and is
            promoting that also. I'm sure that is a very big motivation. You are
            missing my point also Jennifer, It's not about "stress" or "anger"
            ect. these are the emotions that are present but not the cause. I am
            saying that it's psychological rooted not emotional. The trigger
            thoughts and heightened awareness of your skin is causing your
            problem. Included in that is sun flushing,flush from
            drinking,stress,ect. I'm here to give people an idea of what helped
            me and countless others. If you find it disturbing then I wish you
            well on your plight to find relief "somehow,anyway!"
            Jill



            - In rosacea-support@y..., rkba1776@h... wrote:
            > Group,
            >
            > Jennifer Nase, Geoffrey's wife, has forwarded a response to our
            > current debate on whether or not rosacea is a physical or
            > mental-based condition. It was requested that I post it to the
            group
            > for him, as he is very busy now, and Jennifer is unfamiliar with
            > posting procedures.
            >
            > This is what was sent to me:
            >
            > *********************************
            >
            > Hello,
            >
            > My husband is away right now making up for lost time at work.
            > However, he wanted to address one very common misconception that is
            > still floating around - the misconception that rosacea is related
            to
            > psychological disorders. Rosacea is NOT related to psychological
            > disturbances. This disorder is not "in the patient's head". This
            > psycho-babble only adds to the confusion and chaos that surrounds
            > rosacea. Long before rosacea sufferers ever know about their
            > underlying vascular disorder they are flushing to hot or warm
            rooms,
            > sun exposure, exercise, stress, physical exertion, hot or spicy
            > foods, topical skin care products, etc. Geoffrey stresses this
            point
            > - rosacea is a physical disorder. This physical difference is
            > responsible for the underlying vascular disorder. This is also
            > backed up by a substantial number of clinical studies.
            >
            > Geoffrey asked me to post a portion of text from his book on this
            > subject.
            >
            >
            > Sincerely,
            >
            > Jennifer Nase, M.D.
            > Board Certified Neurologist
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > IX. PSYCHOLOGICAL DISTURBANCE --
            > TRIGGER THAT IS NOT IMPORTANT
            >
            >
            > Psychological disturbances are sometimes found in patients with
            > inflammatory skin disorders and chronic illnesses. These patients
            > may demonstrate symptoms such as extreme sadness, depression,
            stress,
            > anxiety, and frustration. The key question that must be addressed
            > is, "Does the sadness, depression, stress, anxiety, and frustration
            > cause the skin disorder..... or does the unrelenting skin disorder
            > cause the symptoms?"
            >
            > PSYCHOLOGICAL DISTURBANCES
            > AND ROSACEA
            >
            > When a physician examines a rosacea sufferer, he often notices
            > symptoms such as sadness, depression, anxiety, hopelessness, and
            > frustration. A general physician who performs brief, incomplete
            > examinations may conclude that the patient has an underlying
            > psychological disorder, and that the patient's mental state is
            > causing his or her rosacea. However, rosacea experts who perform
            > in-depth examinations and question their patients rigorously will
            > often come to much different conclusions; they usually find that
            the
            > patient's rosacea is causing the sadness, depression, anxiety,
            > hopelessness, and frustration. After thorough examination and
            > questioning, medical experts often find that: (1) The patient has
            > already seen countless physicians without much help, (2) The
            patient
            > cannot perform normal activities without moderate facial flushing
            and
            > aggravation of the disease, (3) The patient experiences daily
            burning
            > sensations that interfere with his or her lifestyle, and (4) The
            > patient has been given incorrect medical treatment in the past, or
            no
            > real hope for leading a normal life. Of course patients will be
            > saddened, depressed, anxious, hopeless and frustrated by this
            > disorder
            > and its prognosis!
            >
            > Medical experts who have performed in-depth examinations on rosacea
            > patients indicate that underlying psychological disturbances do not
            > cause rosacea:
            >
            > In a psychological study of 70 rosacea sufferers and 70 control
            > subjects, Dr. Marks found that rosacea sufferers did not differ
            from
            > control subjects. They were psychologically stable with no
            > discernible
            > psychiatric disorder or emotional trauma. (199)
            >
            > After extensive evaluation of 128 rosacea patients, Dr. Sobye
            > concluded, "The majority of the patients were robust, well-
            balanced,
            > and unaffected by their surroundings." (190)
            >
            > In a recent rosacea review article, Dr. Katz indicated that rosacea
            > sufferers have completely normal psychological profiles. (250)
            >
            > Drs. White and colleagues documented that psychological factors did
            > not play a role in the development of rosacea in their patients.
            > (338)
            >
            > Medical experts point out that in most rosacea sufferers, it is
            much
            > more likely that depression and psychological effects are a result
            of
            > the rosacea, and not the cause of rosacea. (319)
            >
            > Dr. Ellis and Stawiski emphasize that rosacea is not caused by
            > psychological disturbances and that, "As a rule, psychiatric
            > treatment
            > does not aid the physical changes of acne rosacea." (192)
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > REFERENCES
            >
            >
            >
            > 190. Sobye, P. "Aetiology and pathogenesis of rosacea". Acta
            Derm
            > Venereol 30: 137-157, 1950.
            >
            > 192. Ellis, C.N. and M.A. Stawiski. "The treatment of perioral
            > dermatitis, acne rosacea, and seborrheic dermatitis". Med Clin
            North
            > Am 66: 819-830, 1982.
            >
            > 199. Marks, R. "Concepts in the pathogenesis of rosacea". Br J
            > Dermatol 80: 170-177, 1968.
            >
            > 250. Katz, A.M. Rosacea: epidemiology and pathogenesis. J Cutan
            > Med Surg 2 Suppl 4: S4-10, 1998.
            >
            > 319. Marks, R. and D.S. Wilkinson. "Rosacea and perioral
            > dermatitis". In: Textbook of Dermatology, edited by R. Marks and
            D.S.
            > Wilkinson. Blackwell Scientific Publication, 1986, p. 1433-1438.
            >
            > 338. White, J.M., A.M. Jones, and J.G. Ingham. "A rorschach study
            > of the neurodermatoses". J Psychosomatic Res 1: 841956.
          • rkba1776@hotmail.com
            First off, Jennifer Nase is not a rosacea sufferer (that I know of). Her husband, Geoffrey, is. Second, Dr. Nase s book is full of references to valid,
            Message 5 of 8 , May 2, 2001
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              First off, Jennifer Nase is not a rosacea sufferer (that I know of).
              Her husband, Geoffrey, is.

              Second, Dr. Nase's book is full of references to valid, peer-reviewed
              studies published in major medical journals. Some were included at
              the end of Jennifer & Geoffrey's post. They are confirmable and were
              published in "real" medical journals.

              Third, yes, it's true Geoffrey Nase is selling a book. But he put
              almost two years of his family and professional life on hold so that
              he could self-publish the book in order to keep the price affordable
              (~$30) for all of us. He could have gone the easy route and let a
              professional publishing firm to the work, gotten the book out ten
              times as fast, and had us all pay upwards of $100 to $200. He did not
              write the book for fun or profit. The evidence doesn't support this
              assumption.

              Question of the day: have you taken the time to read Dr. Nase's book?
              If not, it would be wise to do so before attacking him and his
              research.

              Fourth, yes, Geoffrey Nase did have the IPL procedure done, TO HELP
              ELIMINATE HIS CONDITION. He does not practice it himself, nor is he
              associated with anyone who does, or any company that makes and/or
              markets the IPL devices. The only reason he is promoting IPL is
              because it not only effectively gave him his life back, but it has
              done so for countless other rosaceans.

              Fifth, as far as "trigger thoughts and heightened awareness of your
              skin" causing this problem, I have to ask: what about myself and many
              other board members who assert that our conditions began long before
              we even knew what was going on? What about those who never would have
              noticed ANYTHING wrong with their faces had it not been for someone
              else's comment? How can we cause our own condition with obsessive
              attention to it, when we aren't aware there's anything wrong with us
              to obsess over in the first place? Granted, I could be missing your
              point here, but...

              One last thing: Jill, you continue to challenge folks here to present
              studies supporting our contention that rosacea is indeed a disorder
              with physical roots. You have a right to do this. But as I said
              before, it works both ways, and we, too, have a right to challenge you
              to present studies supporting your assertions. Thus far, all we've
              gotten is anecdotal accounts. All of our arguments seem to be
              unconvincing to you, so why should your arguments be convincing to us?

              This may very well be my last post on this topic as we seem to be
              going in circles.

              BB

              --- In rosacea-support@y..., jillthrills@y... wrote:
              > --
              > Ok, I will challenge that theory Jennifer and ask you to send the
              > board Valid scientific study of your reaserch(not snipits of various
              > unconfirmed sources)THE ACTUAL DATA. Has it been posted in a REAL
              > medical journal, if not it's not valid only unconfirmed testing. Of
              > course Dr. Nase is going to say this is a physical disorder, he is
              > selling a book on the fact, also he had major face sugery done and
              is
              > promoting that also. I'm sure that is a very big motivation. You are
              > missing my point also Jennifer, It's not about "stress" or "anger"
              > ect. these are the emotions that are present but not the cause. I am
              > saying that it's psychological rooted not emotional. The trigger
              > thoughts and heightened awareness of your skin is causing your
              > problem. Included in that is sun flushing,flush from
              > drinking,stress,ect. I'm here to give people an idea of what helped
              > me and countless others. If you find it disturbing then I wish you
              > well on your plight to find relief "somehow,anyway!"
              > Jill
              >
              >
            • n_bickham@hotmail.com
              Allright, this is getting ridiculous! It does not take a genius, nor someone in the medical field, as jillthrills claims to be, to recognize that this thread
              Message 6 of 8 , May 2, 2001
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                Allright, this is getting ridiculous! It does not take a genius, nor
                someone "in the medical field," as jillthrills claims to be, to
                recognize that this thread of conversation has nothing to do with a
                real exchange of ideas, and everything to do with attention-seeking
                behavior. I don't think we should dignify her misguided, insensitive
                posts with any further response. After all, someone who states "you
                will not find a physical cause because I'm sure that it's mental," is
                not open to debate. (One might even say she has a faulty grasp of
                logical reasoning. Science cannot prove something because one person
                is certain it isn't true??) And her response to Jennifer Nase's
                statement shows that she has little understanding of medical
                research, though she claims to value it; she challenges Jennifer to
                show her the "actual data" to back up Dr. Nase's "snipits" [sic] of
                evidence that rosacea is not associated with psychological disorder,
                even after Dr. Nase cites six different articles from the medical
                literature and even provides the references. (Yes, Jill, those
                are "real" medical journals. Ever heard of Medline? You might want to
                check it out sometime, seeing as you are in the medical field and
                all.)

                Those of us who are not constrained by black-and-white thinking
                realize that rosacea is still a poorly understood illness, and that
                psychological factors indeed may exacerbate symptoms for some
                individuals. We could engage in some pretty meaningful discussion
                about the etiology of rosacea for months. My point is that
                jillthrills apparently has no intention of engaging in any real
                discussion, so why bother waving medical research and our own
                testimonials in her face? There is no doubt in my mind that she has
                other motives besides the desire to help anyone in this group. (And I
                won't even get into what kind of psychological issues might be
                involved there...)

                So can we please get on with the real purpose of this group?

                Just my 2 cents,
                Nicole


                --- In rosacea-support@y..., jillthrills@y... wrote:
                > --
                > Ok, I will challenge that theory Jennifer and ask you to send the
                > board Valid scientific study of your reaserch(not snipits of
                various
                > unconfirmed sources)THE ACTUAL DATA. Has it been posted in a REAL
                > medical journal, if not it's not valid only unconfirmed testing. Of
                > course Dr. Nase is going to say this is a physical disorder, he is
                > selling a book on the fact, also he had major face sugery done and
                is
                > promoting that also. I'm sure that is a very big motivation. You
                are
                > missing my point also Jennifer, It's not about "stress" or "anger"
                > ect. these are the emotions that are present but not the cause. I
                am
                > saying that it's psychological rooted not emotional. The trigger
                > thoughts and heightened awareness of your skin is causing your
                > problem. Included in that is sun flushing,flush from
                > drinking,stress,ect. I'm here to give people an idea of what helped
                > me and countless others. If you find it disturbing then I wish you
                > well on your plight to find relief "somehow,anyway!"
                > Jill
                >
                >
                >
                > - In rosacea-support@y..., rkba1776@h... wrote:
                > > Group,
                > >
                > > Jennifer Nase, Geoffrey's wife, has forwarded a response to our
                > > current debate on whether or not rosacea is a physical or
                > > mental-based condition. It was requested that I post it to the
                > group
                > > for him, as he is very busy now, and Jennifer is unfamiliar with
                > > posting procedures.
                > >
                > > This is what was sent to me:
                > >
                > > *********************************
                > >
                > > Hello,
                > >
                > > My husband is away right now making up for lost time at work.
                > > However, he wanted to address one very common misconception that
                is
                > > still floating around - the misconception that rosacea is related
                > to
                > > psychological disorders. Rosacea is NOT related to psychological
                > > disturbances. This disorder is not "in the patient's head".
                This
                > > psycho-babble only adds to the confusion and chaos that surrounds
                > > rosacea. Long before rosacea sufferers ever know about their
                > > underlying vascular disorder they are flushing to hot or warm
                > rooms,
                > > sun exposure, exercise, stress, physical exertion, hot or spicy
                > > foods, topical skin care products, etc. Geoffrey stresses this
                > point
                > > - rosacea is a physical disorder. This physical difference is
                > > responsible for the underlying vascular disorder. This is also
                > > backed up by a substantial number of clinical studies.
                > >
                > > Geoffrey asked me to post a portion of text from his book on this
                > > subject.
                > >
                > >
                > > Sincerely,
                > >
                > > Jennifer Nase, M.D.
                > > Board Certified Neurologist
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > IX. PSYCHOLOGICAL DISTURBANCE --
                > > TRIGGER THAT IS NOT IMPORTANT
                > >
                > >
                > > Psychological disturbances are sometimes found in patients with
                > > inflammatory skin disorders and chronic illnesses. These patients
                > > may demonstrate symptoms such as extreme sadness, depression,
                > stress,
                > > anxiety, and frustration. The key question that must be addressed
                > > is, "Does the sadness, depression, stress, anxiety, and
                frustration
                > > cause the skin disorder..... or does the unrelenting skin
                disorder
                > > cause the symptoms?"
                > >
                > > PSYCHOLOGICAL DISTURBANCES
                > > AND ROSACEA
                > >
                > > When a physician examines a rosacea sufferer, he often notices
                > > symptoms such as sadness, depression, anxiety, hopelessness, and
                > > frustration. A general physician who performs brief, incomplete
                > > examinations may conclude that the patient has an underlying
                > > psychological disorder, and that the patient's mental state is
                > > causing his or her rosacea. However, rosacea experts who perform
                > > in-depth examinations and question their patients rigorously will
                > > often come to much different conclusions; they usually find that
                > the
                > > patient's rosacea is causing the sadness, depression, anxiety,
                > > hopelessness, and frustration. After thorough examination and
                > > questioning, medical experts often find that: (1) The patient has
                > > already seen countless physicians without much help, (2) The
                > patient
                > > cannot perform normal activities without moderate facial flushing
                > and
                > > aggravation of the disease, (3) The patient experiences daily
                > burning
                > > sensations that interfere with his or her lifestyle, and (4) The
                > > patient has been given incorrect medical treatment in the past,
                or
                > no
                > > real hope for leading a normal life. Of course patients will be
                > > saddened, depressed, anxious, hopeless and frustrated by this
                > > disorder
                > > and its prognosis!
                > >
                > > Medical experts who have performed in-depth examinations on
                rosacea
                > > patients indicate that underlying psychological disturbances do
                not
                > > cause rosacea:
                > >
                > > In a psychological study of 70 rosacea sufferers and 70 control
                > > subjects, Dr. Marks found that rosacea sufferers did not differ
                > from
                > > control subjects. They were psychologically stable with no
                > > discernible
                > > psychiatric disorder or emotional trauma. (199)
                > >
                > > After extensive evaluation of 128 rosacea patients, Dr. Sobye
                > > concluded, "The majority of the patients were robust, well-
                > balanced,
                > > and unaffected by their surroundings." (190)
                > >
                > > In a recent rosacea review article, Dr. Katz indicated that
                rosacea
                > > sufferers have completely normal psychological profiles. (250)
                > >
                > > Drs. White and colleagues documented that psychological factors
                did
                > > not play a role in the development of rosacea in their patients.
                > > (338)
                > >
                > > Medical experts point out that in most rosacea sufferers, it is
                > much
                > > more likely that depression and psychological effects are a
                result
                > of
                > > the rosacea, and not the cause of rosacea. (319)
                > >
                > > Dr. Ellis and Stawiski emphasize that rosacea is not caused by
                > > psychological disturbances and that, "As a rule, psychiatric
                > > treatment
                > > does not aid the physical changes of acne rosacea." (192)
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > REFERENCES
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > 190. Sobye, P. "Aetiology and pathogenesis of rosacea".
                Acta
                > Derm
                > > Venereol 30: 137-157, 1950.
                > >
                > > 192. Ellis, C.N. and M.A. Stawiski. "The treatment of
                perioral
                > > dermatitis, acne rosacea, and seborrheic dermatitis". Med Clin
                > North
                > > Am 66: 819-830, 1982.
                > >
                > > 199. Marks, R. "Concepts in the pathogenesis of rosacea".
                Br J
                > > Dermatol 80: 170-177, 1968.
                > >
                > > 250. Katz, A.M. Rosacea: epidemiology and pathogenesis. J
                Cutan
                > > Med Surg 2 Suppl 4: S4-10, 1998.
                > >
                > > 319. Marks, R. and D.S. Wilkinson. "Rosacea and perioral
                > > dermatitis". In: Textbook of Dermatology, edited by R. Marks and
                > D.S.
                > > Wilkinson. Blackwell Scientific Publication, 1986, p. 1433-1438.
                > >
                > > 338. White, J.M., A.M. Jones, and J.G. Ingham. "A
                rorschach study
                > > of the neurodermatoses". J Psychosomatic Res 1: 841956.
              • n_bickham@hotmail.com
                Just noticed my post finally showed up after a bit of a delay. In the meantime, Jill kindly agreed to end this debate. So now my post looks a bit outdated.
                Message 7 of 8 , May 2, 2001
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                  Just noticed my post finally showed up after a bit of a delay. In the
                  meantime, Jill kindly agreed to end this "debate." So now my post
                  looks a bit outdated. Sorry 'bout that. Glad to move on!
                  -Nicole
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