Re: [rootsradicals] Re: My free rad broke!!
- Thanks for reminding me, Jim!
Xtracycle is having a Summer Open House Potluck/BBQ Party.
This Sunday, from 1-5PM @ XC World HQ - 1078 60th Street, Oakland, CA 94609.
Please bring a beverage or food item, kids welcome, some fun events during the day, tours of XC HQ, see our newly painted/converted Airstream (Xtra-Aire) and just hang with great people.
Wish I could go, but a wedding is pulling me away.
Thanks and have a great rest of the week,
RickOn Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 2:45 PM, jday_xtracycle <jday@...> wrote:
Hey there, it's Jim with the broken rad. First off let me give Rick at xtracycle a shout out, He replied to me and gave me the info to call the home office and they are going to replace the frame. I may actually be going up to Oakland for their open house this Sunday, and if so, we will take care of it then (no shipping, yippie). As to why it broke.., I have my theory. First let me say that I use my x quite a bit. It is my regular around town bike and I use it almost daily for commuting and shopping. Typical loads would be four bags of groceries, runs to the Farmer's Market, or a 12 year old. I have hauled a few items which might be pushing the load capacity, but not very often.
Tone is correct that normally the forces on the tab would be downward and if the frame were overloaded you would expect to see the bottom of this weld failing, not the top. So when do these forces get reversed, with the free rad frame pushing up against the attachment point? The only time I can see this happening is when the free rad is up on the kick-back stand I installed in January. When I got the Kick-back I read the caution statements so I have been careful about not sitting on the x when it is up on the stand. But I have this sneaking feeling that all those trips to the store, when I was putting the loaded bike back up on the stand to empty, might have been enough to start the failure? Just a theory, and I as guessing that since other KB owners are not experiencing it also, it might have just been a problem with my frame.
In any case, it looks like I will be on the road again soon, which is the most important thing of all!
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, "Rick | Xtracycle, Inc" <rick@...> wrote:
> Thanks for the reply, _TONE_.
> He is correct, most failures occur past the drop outs. Your FreeRadical
> owner's manual and load capacity sticker on your forward horizontal bridge
> give you the max amounts of weight for a given area. As always, try and
> center your heaviest loads over, or in line with, your rear wheel axle.
> Weight used forward and aft of that "sweet spot" will cause more stress.
> Repeated use in these manners will hasten the fatigue of your FreeRadical.
> We have seen a few tongues, the "u" mounting tab, break, but they usually
> choose somewhere new to crack and fatigue. Due to the wide variety of
> mounting setups and donor frame geometries we can't predict how every
> Xtracycle setup will hold up to heavy, excessive cargo loads.
> Great things is, we stand behind our product and are constantly looking at
> ways to improve our work. Ride fast, safe and fun! :D
>> > _*TONE*_> On Wed, Jun 24, 2009 at 7:50 AM, Tone <tone@...> wrote:
> > Jim,
> > I have never heard of an Xtracycle breaking/cracking around
> > the "U" mounting tab, which gets bolted to the chain stay bridge plate. I
> > have been on the RootsRadical mailing lists since it started and I read
> > every post. I have also managed to break three Xtracycles as well, but my
> > breaks were ALWAYS at the welds just behind the FreeRadical frame's rear
> > drop-outs. That has always been a stress point for the FreeRadical because
> > the only supports for the rear-step area are those two horizontal tubes on
> > each side, which extend from the drop-outs. Please note though, I was one of
> > the first Xtracycle owners in New York City, therefore I owned one of the
> > earlier models, and I actually used it every day in all kinds of weather
> > while working as a bike messenger there, so my usage was certainly over the
> > top compared to the average Xtracycle rider.
> > Also, Xtracycle became aware of the stress point there and
> > (from what I understand) made reinforcement modifications to subsequent
> > frame building production runs. However, after my third Xtracycle cracked I
> > knew the Big Dummy was coming out, so I beefed up the cracked area myself
> > and waited until the BD was finally released. I have not really had a
> > problem with the Big Dummy since.
> > I should also mention that every time I told the terrific
> > folks at Xtracycle about something breaking, they always were willing (and
> > did) send me a replacement. Once I got the replacement I then used their box
> > to ship back the cracked Xtracycle, which I was told they used for studying
> > real-life quality control. I was always very grateful to Xtracycle for
> > sending me a replacement first, because that allowed me to keep working as a
> > messenger rather than having to go a week or two without a cargo bike while
> > waiting for the replacement. I can never say too little when it comes to
> > positive things to say about Xtracycle customer service and satisfaction!
> > There was something I found a bit odd about your specific weld
> > breakage, Jim. You said it did not snap all the way, but instead was "just
> > holding on by the bottom ends of the welds." I find this curious because
> > under normal usage I would imagine any developing cracks would start at the
> > bottom of those U-bolt welds rather than the top. My reasoning is because
> > with how the Xtracycle is attached to a bike it is designed so if the
> > mounting bolts at the bike's rear drop-outs become a little loose the
> > FreeRadical frame will actually pivot around what would be the donor-bike's
> > axle. This in turn would mean the load on the forward tongue (the U-bolt you
> > spoke of) would have a lot of weight pushing down onto the bike's chain-stay
> > bridge. With those kinds of stresses involved I would think any cracking
> > would start developing on the underside of the welds rather than the top.
> > If I am completely missing something about the Xtracycle's
> > design, then I do hope someone corrects me and explains what I have
> > forgotten. I do not think I have had a Big Dummy so long as to completely
> > fail to remember how the FreeRadical frame functioned. However, if I am
> > correct, then it is difficult to visualize the forces behind the forward
> > tongue's weld starting to crack from the top.
> > I know some people have issues with trying to bolt the
> > FreeRadical to the top of the chain-stay bridge, so they opt to mount it on
> > its underside, which is not recommended by the folks at Xtracycle (to my
> > knowledge), but I still do not think that would explain a breakage starting
> > from the top of the tongue welds. Is there any special way you park/store
> > your bike, like on wall hooks or something? Do you perhaps carry or lift the
> > Xtracycle a considerable amount? What about off-road riding where you might
> > have struck that area while going over a log? Heck, what about a curb or
> > step you might have tried to clear? Have you ever tried to mount something
> > above your bike's chain-stay bridge (like a Stoke Monkey) and possibly
> > caused a scratch/dent at the top of the welds you spoke of? If something
> > like that did happen there, then maybe rust set in and worked its way
> > through over three years. Although, you made no mention of that and it would
> > be quite visible.
> > I am not trying to accuse you of abusing your Xtracycle set
> > up. The powers that be know I was guilty of that probably more than anyone.
> > I am just really curious why and how an Xtracycle would start to crack at
> > the top of the forward tongue of all places.
> > Well, Ride Safe otherwise. As Rick from Xtracycle posted, I am
> > sure you will be taken well care of.
> graphic structuralist | rick@...
> 888 537 1401 x709 | the original longtail company
graphic structuralist | rick@...
888 537 1401 x709 | the original longtail company