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Re: [rootsradicals] Black Ice

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  • Ryano
    Get studded bicycle tyres if there is any chance of black ice. A number of manufacturers make them. They are not bulky at all. In fact you can barely even
    Message 1 of 13 , Jan 12, 2007
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      Get studded bicycle tyres if there is any chance of black ice.  A number of manufacturers make them.  They are not bulky at all.  In fact you can barely even see the studs.  They are very small. 

      Some people get by with just fixing the front tyre with studs, but if there are any hills around your commute, you'd be best with them on front and back.

      Ryanoceros
      http://carfreetokyo.blogspot.com/



      On 13/01/07, Ken Heronheart < ken@...> wrote:

      Hello rootsradicals,

      I wiped out on some black ice with my Extracycle today. Anybody out
      there have a recommendation for some winter commuter tires? It's
      basically 5 miles each way on plowed rural roads. I'm currently using
      some knobby MTB tires. I'm especially curious about how the Schwalbe
      Big Apple performs on ice.

      --
      Best regards,
      Ken mailto:ken@...


    • David Chase
      This, I know: Nokian carbide-studded tires, from PeterWhiteCycles.com. See http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/studdedtires.asp I ve also studded tires for sale at
      Message 2 of 13 , Jan 12, 2007
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        This, I know:

        Nokian carbide-studded tires, from PeterWhiteCycles.com.
        See http://www.peterwhitecycles.com/studdedtires.asp

        I've also studded tires for sale at Eastern Mountain Sports
        (but not earlier this week) and also at Wheelworks (if you
        live in the Boston area).

        I've got a pair of W106s, so does my son. I've had one
        chance to take them out on snow/ice, they seemed to grip
        pretty well. I just asked my son if he's run them on the
        ice, and he says they grip pretty good, and leave little
        pits in the ice.

        They are definitely harder to push on plain old pavement,
        but the traction in the snow/ice is big fun (I was using my
        rear brake to skid donuts into a snowy parking lot).

        If you have a 700c wheel on an XtraCycle, 700c x 35 W106
        will fit on your rear wheel, BARELY. Your wheel must be
        round, and if you aren't careful about how you load it,
        the studs will carve away some of the bottom of your SnapDeck
        (guess how I know this).

        Also, if you have own any rock surfaces that you care about
        (like, say, a slate patio or walkway) don't ride your studded
        tires across them. They scratch things.

        In addition, I also experimented with building snow chains
        for my bicycle (from instructions found online via Make Magazine).
        Those are for a unicycle; at bicycle speeds, the vibration from
        the chains is, to put it kindly, unacceptable. So studded tires
        really are the way to go.

        David

        On 2007-01-12, at 7:15 PM, Ken Heronheart wrote:
        > Hello rootsradicals,
        >
        > I wiped out on some black ice with my Extracycle today. Anybody out
        > there have a recommendation for some winter commuter tires? It's
        > basically 5 miles each way on plowed rural roads. I'm currently using
        > some knobby MTB tires. I'm especially curious about how the Schwalbe
        > Big Apple performs on ice.
        >
      • Juergen Weichert
        I wiped out on my Big Apples shod Xtracycle on December 23. Cooling weather in a warm day, light drizzle - I thought the roads were just wet. Funny though, my
        Message 3 of 13 , Jan 12, 2007
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          I wiped out on my Big Apples shod Xtracycle on December 23. Cooling
          weather in a warm day, light drizzle - I thought the roads were just
          wet. Funny though, my back wheel seemed to be slipping a bit on
          acceleration. No realizing it was black ice I cruised merrily along a
          bike path near the river and made a quick decision to take a turn-off as
          I passed. WHAM the bike went out so fast I had no idea what happened.
          Lucily no damage or injury.

          For normal winter riding I like the Schwalbe Snow Spikers - though I can
          only find the Ice Spikers on their site right now - I wonder if the Snow
          Spikers have been discontinued?
          http://schwalbetires.com/bike_tires/off_road/spikes

          I prefer the Snow Spikers because there are no spikes along the center
          ridge - so in regular dry or wet clear road conditions you run on
          rubber. In snow you have grip though and on ice the spikes grab if you
          are turning, or if you let a little air out.

          Juergen



          Ken Heronheart wrote:
          >
          > Hello rootsradicals,
          >
          > I wiped out on some black ice with my Extracycle today. Anybody out
          > there have a recommendation for some winter commuter tires? It's
          > basically 5 miles each way on plowed rural roads. I'm currently using
          > some knobby MTB tires. I'm especially curious about how the Schwalbe
          > Big Apple performs on ice.
          >
          > --
          > Best regards,
          > Ken mailto:ken@... <mailto:ken%40oakfire.com>
          >
          >
        • Ken Heronheart
          Hello David, ... Thanks for the advice everybody. It looks like the Snow Spikers are now called Schwalbe Snow Studs. Would I likely have any problem getting
          Message 4 of 13 , Jan 12, 2007
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            Hello David,

            On Friday, January 12, 2007, 7:04:45 PM, you wrote:


            > If you have a 700c wheel on an XtraCycle, 700c x 35 W106
            > will fit on your rear wheel, BARELY. Your wheel must be
            > round, and if you aren't careful about how you load it,
            > the studs will carve away some of the bottom of your SnapDeck
            > (guess how I know this).

            Thanks for the advice everybody. It looks like the Snow Spikers are
            now called Schwalbe Snow Studs. Would I likely have any problem
            getting the 26" Snow Studs or the 26" W106's on my Giant brand MTB
            Xtracycle?

            --
            Best regards,
            Ken mailto:heronheart@...
          • Joseph Kisley
            I ve found that the Big Apples are very slippery on hard packed snow. I had some home-made studded tires on my Xtracycle 2 years ago after an ice storm. Studs
            Message 5 of 13 , Jan 12, 2007
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              I've found that the Big Apples are very slippery on hard packed snow. I had some home-made studded tires on my Xtracycle 2 years ago after an ice storm. Studs are nice!
               



              ----- Original Message ----
              From: Ken Heronheart <ken@...>
              To: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 6:15:21 PM
              Subject: [rootsradicals] Black Ice

              Hello rootsradicals,

              I wiped out on some black ice with my Extracycle today. Anybody out
              there have a recommendation for some winter commuter tires? It's
              basically 5 miles each way on plowed rural roads. I'm currently using
              some knobby MTB tires. I'm especially curious about how the Schwalbe
              Big Apple performs on ice.

              --
              Best regards,
              Ken mailto:ken@oakfire. com




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            • David Chase
              ... I think you should have no problem at all, just size them like any other tire. So if you can take a 26 x 2.1, you can use a Nokian Extreme 294 or WXC 300.
              Message 6 of 13 , Jan 12, 2007
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                > Thanks for the advice everybody. It looks like the Snow Spikers are
                > now called Schwalbe Snow Studs. Would I likely have any problem
                > getting the 26" Snow Studs or the 26" W106's on my Giant brand MTB
                > Xtracycle.
                I think you should have no problem at all, just size them like any
                other tire. So if you can take a 26 x 2.1, you can use a Nokian
                Extreme 294 or WXC 300. According to Peter White's site, a Nokian
                W160 "will fit" a 26 inch mountain bike. Similarly, the W106 "will
                fit".

                Peter White lists "Snow Studs" and "Ice Spikers" by Schwalbe.

                As I read it, to arrange these tires in order of increasing
                trail-ness, it would be

                Nokian W106
                Nokian W160 (don't confuse the two!)
                Schwalbe Snow Stud (MTB sized, 1.9 inch)
                Nokian WXC 300, Nokian Extreme 294 (big tires, 2.1 inch)
                Schwalbe Ice Spiker (big tires, 2.1 inch)

                I checked my son's bike -- a Giant Sedona -- and it came with
                26 x 2.1 tires. So I think you can do whatever you want, but
                if you are on the road and concerned about black ice, probably
                one of the first three tires.

                There's definitely a cost to getting more studs than you need,
                because the tires are definitely more work to push on a clean
                road. Of course, I also run with the skinniest tires I think
                I can get away with at any given time (e.g., 700c x 28, 120 psi)
                so I am more likely to notice this someone is already on a big
                tire with big treads.

                happy shopping,

                David Chase
              • Bruce Alan Wilson
                I should think that constantly changing ones tires every time there is a warm or cold snap would be a pain in the a@@. (Of course, if you live in the UP of
                Message 7 of 13 , Jan 13, 2007
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                  Re: Black Ice

                  I should think that constantly changing ones tires every time there is a warm or cold snap would be a pain in the a@@.  (Of course, if you live in the UP of Michigan, that's another matter, but here we have sixty degrees one day and twenty the next.)

                  Do they make tire chains for bicycles?

                  Bruce Alan Wilson

                  "The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man.  Other forms of transport grow daily more nightmarish.  Only the bicycle remains pure in heart."--Iris Murdoch

                • Ryano
                  The great thing about bikes is everything costs less. If it is a hassle leaving the stud tyres on through winter, but also a hassle switching tyres when the
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jan 14, 2007
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                    The great thing about bikes is everything costs less.  If it is a hassle leaving the stud tyres on through winter, but also a hassle switching tyres when the weather changes, just get an extra set of winter wheels for your commute.  If you have quick release it will take just seconds to switch over.  Should last for years. 

                    http://carfreetokyo.blogspot.com/


                    On 14/01/07, Bruce Alan Wilson <bawilson@...> wrote:

                    I should think that constantly changing ones tires every time there is a warm or cold snap would be a pain in the a@@.  (Of course, if you live in the UP of Michigan, that's another matter, but here we have sixty degrees one day and twenty the next.)

                    Do they make tire chains for bicycles?

                    Bruce Alan Wilson

                    "The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man.  Other forms of transport grow daily more nightmarish.  Only the bicycle remains pure in heart."--Iris Murdoch


                  • David Chase
                    ... You can make a tire chain for a bicycle. See http://www.rpi.edu/dept/union/juggling/public/uni/unichains.html I followed these instructions (suitably
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jan 14, 2007
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                      > I should think that constantly changing ones tires every time there
                      > is a warm or cold snap would be a pain in the a@@. (Of course, if
                      > you live in the UP of Michigan, that's another matter, but here we
                      > have sixty degrees one day and twenty the next.)
                      >
                      > Do they make tire chains for bicycles?
                      You can make a tire chain for a bicycle.
                      See http://www.rpi.edu/dept/union/juggling/public/uni/unichains.html

                      I followed these instructions (suitably modified for size)
                      to make chains for a 700c wheel, and it was a pain to put
                      them on and off, and when they were on, the shortest stretch
                      of pavement, traveling at quite a low speed, shook me and the
                      bicycle very, very much. I feared damage to the bicycle, or
                      to my teeth, or to my hands. "Other parts" might object after
                      a mile of this abuse, too.

                      I took pictures of the result and posted them some time back.

                      http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/rootsradicals/photos/browse/a0e5

                      In practice, in the Boston area, I now run with studded tires
                      front and rear, and try not to skid them on the pavement. I put
                      them on for the first snow, and it was too much of a pain to swap
                      them out. All that snow melted, we had a round of puddles-N-ice,
                      that melted, and now we're looking at snow/sleet later this week.
                      Some extra wear on my studs, yes, but nothing like the damage to
                      those fruit trees that were tricked into bloom last week. (That is,
                      this has been a very unusual winter.)

                      If you're on a time/dollar budget, you could just get a single
                      studded tire for the front, but also get an extra wheel. As
                      someone else noted, the xtra length of the xtra cycle means
                      it takes a little longer for the rear end to come around, so
                      you can get by without a rear tire. The front tire will
                      protect you from the worst spills. If winter comes to stay
                      for a while, then get some studs for the rear, too.

                      David
                    • Ryano
                      Good tip. Thanks Dave. I might do that too.
                      Message 10 of 13 , Jan 14, 2007
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                        Good tip.  Thanks Dave.  I might do that too. 

                        On 14/01/07, David Chase <dr2chase@...> wrote:

                        > I should think that constantly changing ones tires every time there
                        > is a warm or cold snap would be a pain in the a@@. (Of course, if
                        > you live in the UP of Michigan, that's another matter, but here we
                        > have sixty degrees one day and twenty the next.)
                        >
                        > Do they make tire chains for bicycles?
                        You can make a tire chain for a bicycle.
                        See http://www.rpi.edu/dept/union/juggling/public/uni/unichains.html

                        I followed these instructions (suitably modified for size)
                        to make chains for a 700c wheel, and it was a pain to put
                        them on and off, and when they were on, the shortest stretch
                        of pavement, traveling at quite a low speed, shook me and the
                        bicycle very, very much. I feared damage to the bicycle, or
                        to my teeth, or to my hands. "Other parts" might object after
                        a mile of this abuse, too.

                        I took pictures of the result and posted them some time back.

                        http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/rootsradicals/photos/browse/a0e5

                        In practice, in the Boston area, I now run with studded tires
                        front and rear, and try not to skid them on the pavement. I put
                        them on for the first snow, and it was too much of a pain to swap
                        them out. All that snow melted, we had a round of puddles-N-ice,
                        that melted, and now we're looking at snow/sleet later this week.
                        Some extra wear on my studs, yes, but nothing like the damage to
                        those fruit trees that were tricked into bloom last week. (That is,
                        this has been a very unusual winter.)

                        If you're on a time/dollar budget, you could just get a single
                        studded tire for the front, but also get an extra wheel. As
                        someone else noted, the xtra length of the xtra cycle means
                        it takes a little longer for the rear end to come around, so
                        you can get by without a rear tire. The front tire will
                        protect you from the worst spills. If winter comes to stay
                        for a while, then get some studs for the rear, too.

                        David


                      • alexbknight
                        Hi, To follow the theme, I am currently running a front Nokian Studded tyre, there is plenty of room as it is sustantially smaller than the big apple that is
                        Message 11 of 13 , Jan 14, 2007
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                          Hi,
                          To follow the theme, I am currently running a front Nokian Studded
                          tyre, there is plenty of room as it is sustantially smaller than the
                          big apple that is summer-wear.
                          I haven't done the back tyre yet due to a lack of time but again, loads
                          of room.
                          I will probably be leaving it (these) on most of the winter, the
                          instructions suggest running for 50km on tarmac before any snow or ice,
                          and my commute is not very long.
                          Looking at the studs they seem to sharpen or come out of the tyre more
                          as they are run in.
                          In terms of resistance it is not the same ride as on a big apple, but
                          then putting 20kg of groceries on the back is also not very easy, and
                          that is why we all bought Xtrathingies, no?

                          And last, most useless, comment, no ice here yet (switzerland) - a mild
                          winter so far. I'll post once I've succeeded or fallen off...

                          Alex
                        • Juergen Weichert
                          Twice a year is enough. When winter arrives, and when it goes away again. Some folks who want to fine-tune their rides more frequently than that (say on dry
                          Message 12 of 13 , Jan 14, 2007
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                            Twice a year is enough. When winter arrives, and when it goes away
                            again. Some folks who want to fine-tune their rides more frequently than
                            that (say on dry ice-free winter days) keep two sets of wheels with
                            quick releases. One wearing slicks and the other wearing studs for the
                            icy days. Swapping only takes a minute or two then if there is an icy
                            day forecast.

                            Juergen
                            (I only make the change in the winter and spring)


                            Bruce Alan Wilson wrote:
                            >
                            > I should think that constantly changing ones tires every time there is
                            > a warm or cold snap would be a pain in the a@@. (Of course, if you
                            > live in the UP of Michigan, that's another matter, but here we have
                            > sixty degrees one day and twenty the next.)
                            >
                            > Do they make tire chains for bicycles?
                            >
                            > Bruce Alan Wilson
                            >
                            > "The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man. Other
                            > forms of transport grow daily more nightmarish. Only the bicycle
                            > remains pure in heart."--Iris Murdoch
                            >
                            >
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