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Re: Car-lite and assuaging an octogenarian parent's fears.

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  • slew_footing
    Bruce, My dad s the same way w/ me biking, his quote being I m not satisfied unless you are driving a M-1 Abrams . I m lucky in the sense that I mostly ride
    Message 1 of 12 , Jan 7, 2007
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      Bruce,

      My dad's the same way w/ me biking, his quote being "I'm not
      satisfied unless you are driving a M-1 Abrams". I'm lucky in the
      sense that I mostly ride late at night in San Diego,w/ little to no
      traffic out. I'm car-lite as well, sticking to the car when I can
      tag along w/ others in the same vehicle.

      Your best bet is to assure whomever that you are taking all
      precautions possible: visible clothing, lighting on your bike,
      riding predictably and following all applicable traffic laws, and
      assuming drivers in cars will act irresponsibly (and acting
      accordingly).

      It's the same as driving, if you think about it. You can get into
      accidents either way, but you can only handle what you do out on the
      road. Everything else is chance, and if you determined what life
      you lead on that, you might as well just stay home.

      And for all the dark-humoured people out there, if you get serious
      injured/killed while riding a bike, at least you go out doing what
      you love and what others dream about.


      Beth
    • Cara Lin Bridgman
      After reading some car-only opinions in response to an accident in Kentucky in which a car killed a biker, I m kind of with your dad. Especially, when I
      Message 2 of 12 , Jan 7, 2007
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        After reading some car-only opinions in response to an accident in
        Kentucky in which a car killed a biker, I'm kind of with your dad.
        Especially, when I remember all the years I biked in the US and got
        cussed at and side-swiped by people in cars.

        In Taiwan, everyone may drive like maniacs, but no one doubts my right
        to the road. In fact, there's even a tradition that the bigger
        vehicle pays damages (including hospital bills and funerals) to the
        smaller one. Although this latter tradition is changing (people are
        now much more likely to call for the cops), it still lingers in driving
        style. Bikes and pedestrians and dogs get swerved around, braked for,
        and waited for.

        I believe that the more bicycles, 50 cc motor scooters, and 150 cc motor
        bikes on the road, the safer it becomes for all of us. Cars and trucks
        and buses learn to expect small things on their right.

        Now, I think my main risk is going downhill, then I'm moving like a
        motorbike even though I'm on a bicycle. People don't expect bikes to go
        at motorbike speeds (30-60 kilometers/hour). So, I occasionally have
        oncoming cars and motorbikes turn left in front of me.

        I'm with one other poster in that you can tell your dad that at least
        you won't be killing anyone. It can also help to say that you always
        wear your helmet.

        CL

        Bruce Alan Wilson wrote:
        > My 83-year-old father told me today that he is scared to death when I go
        > out on my bike, apparently because I'm not encased in a steel cocoon.
        > Although I still have a car, I use it only when I must, and for most
        > errands I use my bike. How can I reassure him that I'm safe? (It
        > doesn't help that I've had some minor spills lately; an occasional
        > wipeout is part of biking life, but he doesn't see it that way.)
        >
        > Bruce Alan Wilson
        >
        > "The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man. Other forms
        > of transport grow daily more nightmarish. Only the bicycle remains pure
        > in heart."--Iris Murdoch
        >
      • David Chase
        ... I would be mighty careful. My worst accident ever was late at night, bad enough that I don t know how it happened but the guess is that either someone
        Message 3 of 12 , Jan 7, 2007
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          > I'm lucky in the sense that I mostly ride late at night in San
          > Diego,w/ little to no traffic out.
          I would be mighty careful. My worst accident ever was late at night,
          bad enough that I don't know how it happened but the guess is that
          either someone didn't see me or was too addled to react properly. My
          most recent near-accident (haven't had an actual accident in decades,
          now) was at dusk, when someone misjudged my speed (15 whole miles per
          hour, maybe) and did a passing right turn.
          > Your best bet is to assure whomever that you are taking all
          > precautions possible: visible clothing, lighting on your bike,
          > riding predictably and following all applicable traffic laws, and
          > assuming drivers in cars will act irresponsibly (and acting
          > accordingly).
          Absolutely. Knowing your route is also useful; for my work commute,
          I know where the bad potholes are, where the parallel grates are, and
          where the habitually-run stop-signs are.

          David
        • murray
          I find other vehicles misjudeging my speed (as a couple of people in this thread have mentioned) to be the biggest danger for me on the road. I ride hard and
          Message 4 of 12 , Jan 7, 2007
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            I find other vehicles misjudeging my speed (as a couple of people in this thread have mentioned) to be the biggest danger for me on the road. I ride hard and fast almost everywhere, and generally faster than the other cyclists around here (mostly kids and parents). I've had two incidents in the last couple of weeks where cars has pulled out in front of me, I have swerved around them to avoid a collision, then they blast their horns at me (for waking them from their sleep presumably).
            My mother to, always worries about me on my bike, and I don't even tell her about near misses because it would just worry her more. On thing I have said to her is that even though I am risking my life on my bike (as is ANY road user) at least the health benifits of all that exercise may extend my life in the long run. :)
            Murray
            PS. I use all precautions like high-vis vest, helmet, gloves, air-horn and bell, and obey road-rules.

            On 1/8/07, David Chase < dr2chase@...> wrote:

            > I'm lucky in the sense that I mostly ride late at night in San
            > Diego,w/ little to no traffic out.
            I would be mighty careful. My worst accident ever was late at night,
            bad enough that I don't know how it happened but the guess is that
            either someone didn't see me or was too addled to react properly. My
            most recent near-accident (haven't had an actual accident in decades,
            now) was at dusk, when someone misjudged my speed (15 whole miles per
            hour, maybe) and did a passing right turn.
            > Your best bet is to assure whomever that you are taking all
            > precautions possible: visible clothing, lighting on your bike,
            > riding predictably and following all applicable traffic laws, and
            > assuming drivers in cars will act irresponsibly (and acting
            > accordingly).
            Absolutely. Knowing your route is also useful; for my work commute,
            I know where the bad potholes are, where the parallel grates are, and
            where the habitually-run stop-signs are.

            David


          • Bruce Alan Wilson
            It might help. Thanks. Bruce Alan Wilson The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man. Other forms of transport grow daily more nightmarish.
            Message 5 of 12 , Jan 7, 2007
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              Re: Car-lite and assuaging an octogenarian parent's fears.

              It might help.  Thanks.

              Bruce Alan Wilson

              "The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man.  Other forms of transport grow daily more nightmarish.  Only the bicycle remains pure in heart."--Iris Murdoch

            • richardofuller
              Hi all, My first post. ... I don t know what Bruce might say to his dad, but I m really interested in learning how to talk about risks. When I figure out how
              Message 6 of 12 , Jan 7, 2007
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                Hi all,
                My first post.
                >
                > My 83-year-old father told me today that he is scared to death when I go out on
                > my bike, apparently because I'm not encased in a steel cocoon. Although I still
                > have a car, I use it only when I must, and for most errands I use my bike. How
                > can I reassure him that I'm safe? (It doesn't help that I've had some minor
                > spills lately; an occasional wipeout is part of biking life, but he doesn't see
                > it that way.)

                I don't know what Bruce might say to his dad, but I'm really interested in
                learning how to talk about risks.
                When I figure out how to do it, I'm sure my rap will have a spiritual
                basis--I'm a believer in nonviolence--that is, that the world is a better
                place when each of us is willing to knowingly put our own selves at risk
                rather than threatening others, or trying to improve our fate by eliminating
                others.
                And it will be environmental: Yes, having a steel cocoon to drive around in
                makes us safer (unless we try to travel faster than bicycles) but the
                environmental consequences of this personal safety are too great. As
                individuals and as a human culture, we need to be willing to accept more
                personal risk--we have over-tipped the balance between personal safety and
                system sustainability.

                I haven't figured out how to say this to my 79 year-old mother-out-law who
                used to stress about this to her daughter, till mother-out-law ran for
                office on the green party ticket. I'm sure she worries just as much, but she
                is more accepting of the risks her daughter and I take.

                How do others of you talk (or think) about this?

                Richard
                St. Paul, MN
              • David Chase
                ... Something in this doesn t work for me, and I think it might not work for a lot of people. I tend to look at it from the point of view of game theory
                Message 7 of 12 , Jan 7, 2007
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                  On 2007-01-07, at 6:20 PM, richardofuller wrote:
                  > And it will be environmental: Yes, having a steel cocoon to drive
                  > around in
                  > makes us safer (unless we try to travel faster than bicycles) but the
                  > environmental consequences of this personal safety are too great. As
                  > individuals and as a human culture, we need to be willing to accept
                  > more
                  > personal risk--we have over-tipped the balance between personal
                  > safety and
                  > system sustainability.

                  Something in this doesn't work for me, and I think it might
                  not work for a lot of people. I tend to look at it from the
                  point of view of game theory (prisoner's dilemma, stag hunt,
                  that sort of thing). At the high level, what game theory
                  tells you is not that it is a good thing to take risks
                  (because only suckers take risk -- you WILL lose the game)
                  but, if a good outcome requires people to take risks, then
                  the game is busted, and must be changed.

                  [ And it's worth noting, if you're not that experienced,
                  bicycling can be pretty risky. I started riding in a
                  big way when I was around twelve, and rapidly had quite
                  a number of the classic accidents (lots of slides on
                  slippery pavement, thrown off my bike by railroad tracks,
                  over the handlebars in several stupid ways). It's not
                  an easy education, and the people designing the roads
                  often haven't got a clue about how to make cycling less
                  risky. ]

                  In the short run, we don't have much choice -- too many
                  people are playing the drive-a-lot-not-too-responsibly
                  game, which leads them to buy larger and larger cars, and
                  not bicycle riding. I think that there are several things
                  that are likely to change the game for us;

                  - we'll definitely, unarguably, hit peak oil
                  - we'll definitely, unarguably, see the effects of global
                  warming In either case, this will change the landscape, in
                  terms of investment, etc. Imagine telling people that you
                  want to plow their neighborhood under for a new highway,
                  when everyone can see that cars are going to very soon be
                  much more expensive to drive. If you can solve a traffic
                  problem by waitinng five years, why bothering building a
                  road?

                  - drive-by-wire will get really good
                  Automated driving will not happen for a good
                  long time, until it happens really well. For
                  liability reasons, no way will any company deploy
                  it, until it works rock-solid. However the heck
                  it works, there will surely be some way to tickle
                  it to say "don't you dare run into me", and
                  whatever that thing is will spread like wildfire
                  through the regular cycling community (much as
                  flashing high-intensity LEDs spread -- you see
                  one, you want it, now)

                  - Health, maybe.
                  I'm not too optimistic about this. As a nation,
                  our health care SUCKS. We spend tons of money (30%
                  more than #2, 40% more than #3, is the general
                  pattern) and we die YEARS early after spending a
                  greater fraction of our life sick. It's very very
                  likely that this is a combined result of our
                  boneheaded system for delivering health care, PLUS
                  the fact that we're all FAT. (Other effects might
                  be that we don't consume enough olive oil, fish,
                  red wine, and tea.) I'm on the trailing edge of the
                  baby boom, so I would have expected to see other
                  people already doing things to fix their weight,
                  blood pressure, cholesterol, etc, and one of the
                  most time- and cost-effective things to do is to
                  ride a bike. It hasn't happened yet, at least not
                  in a way that I can see. I do think, if we ended
                  up with a national health care system, that it would
                  then make sense to the people running it to encourage
                  people to get more exercise.

                  In terms of explaining to other people why I ride
                  my bicycle, I find that it is easier to say "it
                  is very good for my health, in ways that can be
                  measured with a blood test" (and it is -- its value
                  in medication avoid exceeds the cost of the gasoline
                  saved by a factor of five to ten), than to say
                  "I think cars are inherently antisocial, especially
                  the way we use them" or "I'd like to send as little
                  money as possible to actual Islamofascists (i.e.,
                  Saudi Arabia)", or "I think our foreign policy is
                  completely screwed by our dependence on oil", or
                  "I'm pretty sure global warming is happening, and
                  I'd like to do something about it".

                  No, most people understand self-interest, as near
                  as I can tell. Talk about that other stuff, they
                  think you're a weirdo.

                  The neat thing will be when we're running diesels
                  on vegetable oil, we can then make head-to-head
                  efficiency comparisons. The other other reason to
                  ride a bike, is that we get about 1000 miles per
                  gallon. It's the most way efficient to move
                  people that there is -- how cool is that? (That's
                  like 50 people carpooling in a 20mpg car.)

                  So, to return to your original point about "taking
                  risks" -- no, I hate that part, if I could eliminate
                  all the risk in riding my bike, that would be great.
                  However, to compensate for that risk, is the risk of
                  not getting enough exercise, and all the politcal and
                  environmental stuff. I don't like it that I'm contributing
                  to global warming, I don't like it that I'm sending money
                  to Saudi Arabia and Iran and Russia (Putin gives me
                  the creeps).

                  David
                • Cara Lin Bridgman
                  Amen! Unfortunately, most folks already think I m a weirdo just because I m on a bike when I could be on a motorbike or in a car. At least one person has
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jan 7, 2007
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                    Amen!

                    Unfortunately, most folks already think I'm a weirdo just because I'm on
                    a bike when I could be on a motorbike or in a car. At least one person
                    has asked "Why are you torturing yourself?" Well, most of the time I
                    don't quite see it that way...

                    Health, planet, politics, oil -- all to the good.

                    A member of the Christian Peacemaker Team reported on being asked how to
                    help solve the problems in Iraq. The answer was 'Ride your bike.'

                    Meanwhile, the former Shah of Iran said 'Oil is too valuable to burn.'
                    He's right. We need it more for medicine and fertilizers and water
                    bottles (i.e. tools & containers), than we need it for transportation.

                    CL

                    David Chase wrote:
                    > On 2007-01-07, at 6:20 PM, richardofuller wrote:
                    >> And it will be environmental: Yes, having a steel cocoon to drive
                    >> around in
                    >> makes us safer (unless we try to travel faster than bicycles) but the
                    >> environmental consequences of this personal safety are too great. As
                    >> individuals and as a human culture, we need to be willing to accept
                    >> more
                    >> personal risk--we have over-tipped the balance between personal
                    >> safety and
                    >> system sustainability.
                    >
                    > Something in this doesn't work for me, and I think it might
                    > not work for a lot of people. I tend to look at it from the
                    > point of view of game theory (prisoner's dilemma, stag hunt,
                    > that sort of thing). At the high level, what game theory
                    > tells you is not that it is a good thing to take risks
                    > (because only suckers take risk -- you WILL lose the game)
                    > but, if a good outcome requires people to take risks, then
                    > the game is busted, and must be changed.
                    >
                    > [ And it's worth noting, if you're not that experienced,
                    > bicycling can be pretty risky. I started riding in a
                    > big way when I was around twelve, and rapidly had quite
                    > a number of the classic accidents (lots of slides on
                    > slippery pavement, thrown off my bike by railroad tracks,
                    > over the handlebars in several stupid ways). It's not
                    > an easy education, and the people designing the roads
                    > often haven't got a clue about how to make cycling less
                    > risky. ]
                    >
                    > In the short run, we don't have much choice -- too many
                    > people are playing the drive-a-lot-not-too-responsibly
                    > game, which leads them to buy larger and larger cars, and
                    > not bicycle riding. I think that there are several things
                    > that are likely to change the game for us;
                    >
                    > - we'll definitely, unarguably, hit peak oil
                    > - we'll definitely, unarguably, see the effects of global
                    > warming In either case, this will change the landscape, in
                    > terms of investment, etc. Imagine telling people that you
                    > want to plow their neighborhood under for a new highway,
                    > when everyone can see that cars are going to very soon be
                    > much more expensive to drive. If you can solve a traffic
                    > problem by waitinng five years, why bothering building a
                    > road?
                    >
                    > - drive-by-wire will get really good
                    > Automated driving will not happen for a good
                    > long time, until it happens really well. For
                    > liability reasons, no way will any company deploy
                    > it, until it works rock-solid. However the heck
                    > it works, there will surely be some way to tickle
                    > it to say "don't you dare run into me", and
                    > whatever that thing is will spread like wildfire
                    > through the regular cycling community (much as
                    > flashing high-intensity LEDs spread -- you see
                    > one, you want it, now)
                    >
                    > - Health, maybe.
                    > I'm not too optimistic about this. As a nation,
                    > our health care SUCKS. We spend tons of money (30%
                    > more than #2, 40% more than #3, is the general
                    > pattern) and we die YEARS early after spending a
                    > greater fraction of our life sick. It's very very
                    > likely that this is a combined result of our
                    > boneheaded system for delivering health care, PLUS
                    > the fact that we're all FAT. (Other effects might
                    > be that we don't consume enough olive oil, fish,
                    > red wine, and tea.) I'm on the trailing edge of the
                    > baby boom, so I would have expected to see other
                    > people already doing things to fix their weight,
                    > blood pressure, cholesterol, etc, and one of the
                    > most time- and cost-effective things to do is to
                    > ride a bike. It hasn't happened yet, at least not
                    > in a way that I can see. I do think, if we ended
                    > up with a national health care system, that it would
                    > then make sense to the people running it to encourage
                    > people to get more exercise.
                    >
                    > In terms of explaining to other people why I ride
                    > my bicycle, I find that it is easier to say "it
                    > is very good for my health, in ways that can be
                    > measured with a blood test" (and it is -- its value
                    > in medication avoid exceeds the cost of the gasoline
                    > saved by a factor of five to ten), than to say
                    > "I think cars are inherently antisocial, especially
                    > the way we use them" or "I'd like to send as little
                    > money as possible to actual Islamofascists (i.e.,
                    > Saudi Arabia)", or "I think our foreign policy is
                    > completely screwed by our dependence on oil", or
                    > "I'm pretty sure global warming is happening, and
                    > I'd like to do something about it".
                    >
                    > No, most people understand self-interest, as near
                    > as I can tell. Talk about that other stuff, they
                    > think you're a weirdo.
                    >
                    > The neat thing will be when we're running diesels
                    > on vegetable oil, we can then make head-to-head
                    > efficiency comparisons. The other other reason to
                    > ride a bike, is that we get about 1000 miles per
                    > gallon. It's the most way efficient to move
                    > people that there is -- how cool is that? (That's
                    > like 50 people carpooling in a 20mpg car.)
                    >
                    > So, to return to your original point about "taking
                    > risks" -- no, I hate that part, if I could eliminate
                    > all the risk in riding my bike, that would be great.
                    > However, to compensate for that risk, is the risk of
                    > not getting enough exercise, and all the politcal and
                    > environmental stuff. I don't like it that I'm contributing
                    > to global warming, I don't like it that I'm sending money
                    > to Saudi Arabia and Iran and Russia (Putin gives me
                    > the creeps).
                    >
                    > David
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > You're getting this message because you signed up to be an Xtracycle roots radical.
                    >
                    > To Post a message, send it to: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    >
                    > ride to believe.
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >

                    --

                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                    Cara Lin Bridgman

                    P.O. Box 013 Phone: 886-4-2632-5484
                    Longjing Sinjhuang
                    Taichung 434
                    Taiwan http://web.thu.edu.tw/caralinb/www/
                    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                  • Susan
                    About the zillionth time I caught myself actually answering falsely because I knew the person asking really wouldn t identify with my answer, I decided that I
                    Message 9 of 12 , Jan 16, 2007
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                      About the zillionth time I caught myself actually answering falsely
                      because I knew the person asking really wouldn't identify with my
                      answer, I decided that I was doing a real disservice. Why not
                      challenge that idea that it's okay to be self-serving? And if fifty
                      people a day do it, maybe they'll start thinking *they're* the weird
                      ones.
                      I do emphasize that it is not painful and it is not torture, and
                      that I started out with just a little bit and figured even a little
                      bit was a good thing... and generally people think I'm an insanely
                      happy person so they are a little jealous. I know I've made people think.


                      --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, Cara Lin Bridgman <caralinb@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Amen!
                      >
                      > Unfortunately, most folks already think I'm a weirdo just because
                      I'm on
                      > a bike when I could be on a motorbike or in a car. At least one person
                      > has asked "Why are you torturing yourself?" Well, most of the time I
                      > don't quite see it that way...
                      >
                      > Health, planet, politics, oil -- all to the good.
                      >
                      > A member of the Christian Peacemaker Team reported on being asked
                      how to
                      > help solve the problems in Iraq. The answer was 'Ride your bike.'
                      >
                      > Meanwhile, the former Shah of Iran said 'Oil is too valuable to burn.'
                      > He's right. We need it more for medicine and fertilizers and water
                      > bottles (i.e. tools & containers), than we need it for transportation.
                      >
                      > CL
                      >
                      > David Chase wrote:
                      > > On 2007-01-07, at 6:20 PM, richardofuller wrote:
                      > >> And it will be environmental: Yes, having a steel cocoon to drive
                      > >> around in
                      > >> makes us safer (unless we try to travel faster than bicycles) but the
                      > >> environmental consequences of this personal safety are too great. As
                      > >> individuals and as a human culture, we need to be willing to accept
                      > >> more
                      > >> personal risk--we have over-tipped the balance between personal
                      > >> safety and
                      > >> system sustainability.
                      > >
                      > > Something in this doesn't work for me, and I think it might
                      > > not work for a lot of people. I tend to look at it from the
                      > > point of view of game theory (prisoner's dilemma, stag hunt,
                      > > that sort of thing). At the high level, what game theory
                      > > tells you is not that it is a good thing to take risks
                      > > (because only suckers take risk -- you WILL lose the game)
                      > > but, if a good outcome requires people to take risks, then
                      > > the game is busted, and must be changed.
                      > >
                      > > [ And it's worth noting, if you're not that experienced,
                      > > bicycling can be pretty risky. I started riding in a
                      > > big way when I was around twelve, and rapidly had quite
                      > > a number of the classic accidents (lots of slides on
                      > > slippery pavement, thrown off my bike by railroad tracks,
                      > > over the handlebars in several stupid ways). It's not
                      > > an easy education, and the people designing the roads
                      > > often haven't got a clue about how to make cycling less
                      > > risky. ]
                      > >
                      > > In the short run, we don't have much choice -- too many
                      > > people are playing the drive-a-lot-not-too-responsibly
                      > > game, which leads them to buy larger and larger cars, and
                      > > not bicycle riding. I think that there are several things
                      > > that are likely to change the game for us;
                      > >
                      > > - we'll definitely, unarguably, hit peak oil
                      > > - we'll definitely, unarguably, see the effects of global
                      > > warming In either case, this will change the landscape, in
                      > > terms of investment, etc. Imagine telling people that you
                      > > want to plow their neighborhood under for a new highway,
                      > > when everyone can see that cars are going to very soon be
                      > > much more expensive to drive. If you can solve a traffic
                      > > problem by waitinng five years, why bothering building a
                      > > road?
                      > >
                      > > - drive-by-wire will get really good
                      > > Automated driving will not happen for a good
                      > > long time, until it happens really well. For
                      > > liability reasons, no way will any company deploy
                      > > it, until it works rock-solid. However the heck
                      > > it works, there will surely be some way to tickle
                      > > it to say "don't you dare run into me", and
                      > > whatever that thing is will spread like wildfire
                      > > through the regular cycling community (much as
                      > > flashing high-intensity LEDs spread -- you see
                      > > one, you want it, now)
                      > >
                      > > - Health, maybe.
                      > > I'm not too optimistic about this. As a nation,
                      > > our health care SUCKS. We spend tons of money (30%
                      > > more than #2, 40% more than #3, is the general
                      > > pattern) and we die YEARS early after spending a
                      > > greater fraction of our life sick. It's very very
                      > > likely that this is a combined result of our
                      > > boneheaded system for delivering health care, PLUS
                      > > the fact that we're all FAT. (Other effects might
                      > > be that we don't consume enough olive oil, fish,
                      > > red wine, and tea.) I'm on the trailing edge of the
                      > > baby boom, so I would have expected to see other
                      > > people already doing things to fix their weight,
                      > > blood pressure, cholesterol, etc, and one of the
                      > > most time- and cost-effective things to do is to
                      > > ride a bike. It hasn't happened yet, at least not
                      > > in a way that I can see. I do think, if we ended
                      > > up with a national health care system, that it would
                      > > then make sense to the people running it to encourage
                      > > people to get more exercise.
                      > >
                      > > In terms of explaining to other people why I ride
                      > > my bicycle, I find that it is easier to say "it
                      > > is very good for my health, in ways that can be
                      > > measured with a blood test" (and it is -- its value
                      > > in medication avoid exceeds the cost of the gasoline
                      > > saved by a factor of five to ten), than to say
                      > > "I think cars are inherently antisocial, especially
                      > > the way we use them" or "I'd like to send as little
                      > > money as possible to actual Islamofascists (i.e.,
                      > > Saudi Arabia)", or "I think our foreign policy is
                      > > completely screwed by our dependence on oil", or
                      > > "I'm pretty sure global warming is happening, and
                      > > I'd like to do something about it".
                      > >
                      > > No, most people understand self-interest, as near
                      > > as I can tell. Talk about that other stuff, they
                      > > think you're a weirdo.
                      > >
                      > > The neat thing will be when we're running diesels
                      > > on vegetable oil, we can then make head-to-head
                      > > efficiency comparisons. The other other reason to
                      > > ride a bike, is that we get about 1000 miles per
                      > > gallon. It's the most way efficient to move
                      > > people that there is -- how cool is that? (That's
                      > > like 50 people carpooling in a 20mpg car.)
                      > >
                      > > So, to return to your original point about "taking
                      > > risks" -- no, I hate that part, if I could eliminate
                      > > all the risk in riding my bike, that would be great.
                      > > However, to compensate for that risk, is the risk of
                      > > not getting enough exercise, and all the politcal and
                      > > environmental stuff. I don't like it that I'm contributing
                      > > to global warming, I don't like it that I'm sending money
                      > > to Saudi Arabia and Iran and Russia (Putin gives me
                      > > the creeps).
                      > >
                      > > David
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > You're getting this message because you signed up to be an
                      Xtracycle roots radical.
                      > >
                      > > To Post a message, send it to: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ride to believe.
                      > > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      > --
                      >
                      > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                      > Cara Lin Bridgman
                      >
                      > P.O. Box 013 Phone: 886-4-2632-5484
                      > Longjing Sinjhuang
                      > Taichung 434
                      > Taiwan http://web.thu.edu.tw/caralinb/www/
                      > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
                      >
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