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is the world friendlier on a bike?

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  • Abigail vR
    Hi All, After reading Devian s posts about the hip checks and the pit bull (!!) I wondered if my experience has been atypical or if it s where I live because I
    Message 1 of 13 , Sep 30, 2008
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      Hi All,

      After reading Devian's posts about the hip checks and the pit bull
      (!!) I wondered if my experience has been atypical or if it's where I
      live because I have found that here in Silicon Valley, the world is
      mostly friendlier when I'm on my bike. I get the little smile and nod
      of greeting from other bikers, people asking me where I got my bike,
      a woman standing on the sidewalk collecting money and/or signatures
      for Environment California greeting my son and I with, "hello,
      beautiful bike people!" and one guy on another bike stopped at a
      light shouting, "Nice Xtracycle!"

      Of course, I have been beeped at for being in the bike lane (the guy
      wanted to turn right, I don't know why he didn't go around me, no one
      was in the right hand driving lane) and today a woman pulled into the
      bike lane to turn right, except there were 8 or so cars stopped at
      the light so she couldn't turn. She was driving a Lexus and had a
      book in her lap (!!!) so I think she was clueless not unfriendly.

      Is it just me? Is it the kid on the back? I think kids, particularly
      completely adorable ones like mine (not that I'm biased) do help
      bring the goodwill. :)

      Abigail
    • Sheree O'Brien
      It might just be the area you are in. I have experienced lots of friendliness, too (we re in South Orange County, CA). Especially with the kids on the back. I
      Message 2 of 13 , Sep 30, 2008
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        It might just be the area you are in. I have experienced lots of friendliness, too (we’re in South Orange County , CA ). Especially with the kids on the back. I was ‘buzzed’ by a police officer, but he just wanted to check out the bike and he was super friendly.

         

        I’ve had all kinds of positive comments from people standing on the street, drivers going by, etc.. One person even followed me in his car (holding up traffic) till we got to a light and then stopped to ask a bunch of questions! LOL  Most people seem AMAZED that not only am I riding a bike, but I am often carrying one or both kids with me on the snapdeck.  As I’ve said before, it’s mostly roadies on bikes here- very very few commuters and rec riders. So between the light bike traffic and the unusual look of the X- I get recognized a lot LOL

         

        As for drivers- so far so good…I haven’t had any real problems with cars…but then I tend to ride my bike like I’m driving (eg: take the lane when approaching intersections, ride very defensively, etc..). Cars have given me plenty of room- my worst problems tend to be with people who are *too* cautious and want to wave me on when traffic regs clearly give them the right of way. I don’t much like that….always worried that the guy behind the waver will get impatient and run me over!   I also purchased a Flash Flag from Ian (here on the board) and use it 100% of the time- the flag sticking out seems to encourage drives to give me more room, too.  But our bike lanes here are usually 4-6 feet wide anyways so being squeezed isn’t much of an issue.

         

         

        Sheree

        ::maker::mother::lightcatcher::

         

        see what i do: www.sofoto.com

        see what i see: www.flickr.com/photos/sofoto

        read me: www.shizzyknits.typepad.com

         


        From: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com [mailto:rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Abigail vR
        Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2008 9:15 AM
        To: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [rootsradicals] is the world friendlier on a bike?

         

        Hi All,

        After reading Devian's posts about the hip checks and the pit bull
        (!!) I wondered if my experience has been atypical or if it's where I
        live because I have found that here in Silicon Valley , the world is
        mostly friendlier when I'm on my bike. I get the little smile and nod
        of greeting from other bikers, people asking me where I got my bike,
        a woman standing on the sidewalk collecting money and/or signatures
        for Environment California greeting my son and I with, "hello,
        beautiful bike people!" and one guy on another bike stopped at a
        light shouting, "Nice Xtracycle!"

        Of course, I have been beeped at for being in the bike lane (the guy
        wanted to turn right, I don't know why he didn't go around me, no one
        was in the right hand driving lane) and today a woman pulled into the
        bike lane to turn right, except there were 8 or so cars stopped at
        the light so she couldn't turn. She was driving a Lexus and had a
        book in her lap (!!!) so I think she was clueless not unfriendly.

        Is it just me? Is it the kid on the back? I think kids, particularly
        completely adorable ones like mine (not that I'm biased) do help
        bring the goodwill. :)

        Abigail

      • JJ Ark
        Hmmm... I thought this a bit odd, too. I live in Portland, but things are quite friendly around here. Of course I get honked at, but it s never too horrible.
        Message 3 of 13 , Sep 30, 2008
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          Hmmm...

          I thought this a bit odd, too.

          I live in Portland, but things are quite friendly around here. Of course I get honked at, but it's never too horrible.

          On Saturday, I organized a small ride (We call it a Stroll) for newbies, and we rode down the Lincoln bike boulevard, and through Ladd's and then downtown and back again.  We were 2 abreast most of the way, and we had one honk from a driver, and, ironically, we were single file at that time. Older Fella wasn't happy that I was owning the lane at a risky intersection. So Sorry!

          We waved and smiled back.

          What does this tangent mean? 

          People are generally nice. 

          The flipside of that is the really awkward part, tho: when people AREN'T nice, they are genuinely bad people. I have no doubt that for every 10000 people I meet who are nice, pleasant or merely ambivalent there is going to be one person who will make me glad there are police, and thankful that I carry a big stick in my freeloader (a sjambok.) 

          We must not focus on the abberation, instead keeping our focus on the vast majority of folks who are out to live their lives, get some exercise and get home to their families.

          JJ

          On Sep 30, 2008, at 9:14 AM, Abigail vR wrote:

          Hi All,

          After reading Devian's posts about the hip checks and the pit bull 
          (!!) I wondered if my experience has been atypical or if it's where I 
          live because I have found that here in Silicon Valley, the world is 
          mostly friendlier when I'm on my bike. I get the little smile and nod 
          of greeting from other bikers, people asking me where I got my bike, 
          a woman standing on the sidewalk collecting money and/or signatures 
          for Environment California greeting my son and I with, "hello, 
          beautiful bike people!" and one guy on another bike stopped at a 
          light shouting, "Nice Xtracycle!"

          Of course, I have been beeped at for being in the bike lane (the guy 
          wanted to turn right, I don't know why he didn't go around me, no one 
          was in the right hand driving lane) and today a woman pulled into the 
          bike lane to turn right, except there were 8 or so cars stopped at 
          the light so she couldn't turn. She was driving a Lexus and had a 
          book in her lap (!!!) so I think she was clueless not unfriendly.

          Is it just me? Is it the kid on the back? I think kids, particularly 
          completely adorable ones like mine (not that I'm biased) do help 
          bring the goodwill. :)

          Abigail


          JJ Ark

          "Gentlemen, this meeting is adjourned. "  -- O-Ren Ishii. Kill Bill, Vol 1

        • kwikfile08
          I have found the world to be very friendly on a bike, there are a couple of exceptions though. Generally clueless Metal Box drivers that have felt I should not
          Message 4 of 13 , Sep 30, 2008
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            I have found the world to be very friendly on a bike, there are a
            couple of exceptions though. Generally clueless Metal Box drivers that
            have felt I should not be in "Their" lane.

            I commute from Anaheim/Yorba Lind, deep behind the Orange Curtain. See
            "House wives of OC" Or "The OC" TV shows and you will know what I
            mean. Anyway I travel from there to Long Beach in between I go through
            some fairly rough neighborhoods. I travel early in the morning and
            back again in the afternoon. I use Down Low Glow Duals in Green color
            (Fossil Fool .com) the peole on the street just love the bike and yell
            positive things at me all the time. Once a bunch of G bangers were on
            the sidewalk staring me down - I waved - They waved back and smiled : )

            with my bright Neon Yellow vest I feel like Weird Al in his Video
            "White and Nerdy" far from being seen as a Goof, The positive vibe is
            always out there. One time a guy in a heavy Spanish area Yell "Libertad!"

            Liberty! Wow what effect it had on me because he was waiting for the
            bus in a wheel chair and was happy I was FREE.

            namaste'

            Carl
          • Sean Moore
            Metro Denver seems really kind to cyclists. I m of the opinion that it s because there has been a bike infrastructure since 1970 so everyone is just used to
            Message 5 of 13 , Sep 30, 2008
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              Metro Denver seems really kind to cyclists.  I'm of the opinion that it's because there has been a bike infrastructure since 1970 so everyone is just used to bicycles.  Add to that our outdoor-centric culture and if the driver doesn't ride themselves they probably know someone who does.

              On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 11:33 AM, JJ Ark <jj@...> wrote:

              Hmmm...


              I thought this a bit odd, too.

              I live in Portland, but things are quite friendly around here. Of course I get honked at, but it's never too horrible.

              On Saturday, I organized a small ride (We call it a Stroll) for newbies, and we rode down the Lincoln bike boulevard, and through Ladd's and then downtown and back again.  We were 2 abreast most of the way, and we had one honk from a driver, and, ironically, we were single file at that time. Older Fella wasn't happy that I was owning the lane at a risky intersection. So Sorry!

              We waved and smiled back.

              What does this tangent mean? 

              People are generally nice. 

              The flipside of that is the really awkward part, tho: when people AREN'T nice, they are genuinely bad people. I have no doubt that for every 10000 people I meet who are nice, pleasant or merely ambivalent there is going to be one person who will make me glad there are police, and thankful that I carry a big stick in my freeloader (a sjambok.) 

              We must not focus on the abberation, instead keeping our focus on the vast majority of folks who are out to live their lives, get some exercise and get home to their families.

              JJ

              On Sep 30, 2008, at 9:14 AM, Abigail vR wrote:

              Hi All,

              After reading Devian's posts about the hip checks and the pit bull 
              (!!) I wondered if my experience has been atypical or if it's where I 
              live because I have found that here in Silicon Valley, the world is 
              mostly friendlier when I'm on my bike. I get the little smile and nod 
              of greeting from other bikers, people asking me where I got my bike, 
              a woman standing on the sidewalk collecting money and/or signatures 
              for Environment California greeting my son and I with, "hello, 
              beautiful bike people!" and one guy on another bike stopped at a 
              light shouting, "Nice Xtracycle!"

              Of course, I have been beeped at for being in the bike lane (the guy 
              wanted to turn right, I don't know why he didn't go around me, no one 
              was in the right hand driving lane) and today a woman pulled into the 
              bike lane to turn right, except there were 8 or so cars stopped at 
              the light so she couldn't turn. She was driving a Lexus and had a 
              book in her lap (!!!) so I think she was clueless not unfriendly.

              Is it just me? Is it the kid on the back? I think kids, particularly 
              completely adorable ones like mine (not that I'm biased) do help 
              bring the goodwill. :)

              Abigail


              JJ Ark

              "Gentlemen, this meeting is adjourned. "  -- O-Ren Ishii. Kill Bill, Vol 1




              --
              Sean Moore
              moore.sean@...
            • Devian Gilbert
              generally speaking the world is a nicer place on a bicycle i firmly believe in waving to your neighbors, etc... but America is full of people enclosed in their
              Message 6 of 13 , Sep 30, 2008
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                generally speaking the world is a nicer place on a bicycle
                i firmly believe in waving to your neighbors, etc...

                but America is full of people enclosed in their cars... that social, and physical distancing... combined with the anonymity found behind glass and steel... with the reinforcement of sheer horsepower under foot...  not to mention velocity...

                people often become disassociated 
                suddenly the description has become... that of a vehicle... cuz that's what we see... we dont identify the driver... therefore we associate the scenario with inanimate objects...

                there's a million little things out there.

                my buddy lived in San Jose for almost 20yrs
                he's had kids in nip-speed cars throw fountain drinks at him 
                and one day a person in a red BMW intentionally swerved at him while passing, sending off the pavement just past the overpass of Monterey Hwy, while on Blossom Hill Rd (hwy 82?)
                my buddy, on a road bike, was forced down the embankment... where he finally crashed, and broke his nose.
                and get this... the on ramp is a clover leaf shape, and when he got up off the ground it was a couple of kids stopped, laffing at him...

                ya... crappy things do happen.

                when i was a kid maybe 1974 Fresno, Ca
                my dad being a white guy, with long blonde hair... vietnam vet... married to a Filipino girl... riding a black Ciocc road bike... in cut off jean shorts, and no shirt...
                oh ya.... gee... imagine how "friendly" that was!

                in the last year... in Ventura,Ca
                there was a group of young latino men drinking beers on the corner of the shopping center where Ralphs is at, 9372 Telephone Rd, Ventura, Ca. 93004
                i rode by to get groceries...
                on the way out... 
                the bike path actually being on the sidewalk...i turned in front of them, and one of the guys broke a beer bottle on the ground right in front of me... which of course, just cut the tyres all to bits...
                i kept riding home to my grandparents house blocks away, NASCAR style... something like coming into pit row... with tyres shredded

                in Santa Paula, Ca
                one day i was riding with a small group on a road ride, and on Telegraph Rd, and i think S. Beckwith Rd...
                a group of guys in a mini van, pulled along side, swerved at us... said some things in spanish... i flipped them off, and they started swinging at the group with a baseball bat!
                i called that into Santa Paula PD right then and there...

                crazy things like that happen.

                people in cars are often in a hurry, under some kind of pressure, anxiety of some sort, and their alter-egos often act out.

                heck...
                in Austin, Tx... somewhat recently (in the last year or two), someone was killed on their bicycle after a car ran into them... it made the news... it was on the News Channel's website, and you'd be blown away at the Masse Public's response.  Motorists there viewed bicycle traffic as a nuisance, a safety issue, and that they (bicyclists) have no RIGHT to be on the road.
                thats Austin...
                (now i bet there will be a bunch of "how great Austin" is kind of stuff)  go ride around the lake.

                my point being... there are often times, people out there that don't like bicycle traffic.
                cars are dangerous, and god only knows what people are thinking, feeling, acting... or what meds they are taking

                check out this stupid video i shot

                i was on Ft. Ord, riding home... when i spotted a Bob Cat...
                a car drives by, the cat runs into the road... the driver of the Cadillac Escalade, just ran right over it... didn't even stop.



                "Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the human race." H.G. Wells


                On Sep 30, 2008, at 12:30 PM, Sean Moore wrote:


                Metro Denver seems really kind to cyclists.  I'm of the opinion that it's because there has been a bike infrastructure since 1970 so everyone is just used to bicycles.  Add to that our outdoor-centric culture and if the driver doesn't ride themselves they probably know someone who does.

                On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 11:33 AM, JJ Ark <jj@scooternut. com> wrote:

                Hmmm...


                I thought this a bit odd, too.

                I live in Portland, but things are quite friendly around here. Of course I get honked at, but it's never too horrible.

                On Saturday, I organized a small ride (We call it a Stroll) for newbies, and we rode down the Lincoln bike boulevard, and through Ladd's and then downtown and back again.  We were 2 abreast most of the way, and we had one honk from a driver, and, ironically, we were single file at that time. Older Fella wasn't happy that I was owning the lane at a risky intersection. So Sorry!

                We waved and smiled back.

                What does this tangent mean? 

                People are generally nice. 

                The flipside of that is the really awkward part, tho: when people AREN'T nice, they are genuinely bad people. I have no doubt that for every 10000 people I meet who are nice, pleasant or merely ambivalent there is going to be one person who will make me glad there are police, and thankful that I carry a big stick in my freeloader (a sjambok.) 

                We must not focus on the abberation, instead keeping our focus on the vast majority of folks who are out to live their lives, get some exercise and get home to their families.

                JJ

                On Sep 30, 2008, at 9:14 AM, Abigail vR wrote:

                Hi All,

                After reading Devian's posts about the hip checks and the pit bull 
                (!!) I wondered if my experience has been atypical or if it's where I 
                live because I have found that here in Silicon Valley, the world is 
                mostly friendlier when I'm on my bike. I get the little smile and nod 
                of greeting from other bikers, people asking me where I got my bike, 
                a woman standing on the sidewalk collecting money and/or signatures 
                for Environment California greeting my son and I with, "hello, 
                beautiful bike people!" and one guy on another bike stopped at a 
                light shouting, "Nice Xtracycle!"

                Of course, I have been beeped at for being in the bike lane (the guy 
                wanted to turn right, I don't know why he didn't go around me, no one 
                was in the right hand driving lane) and today a woman pulled into the 
                bike lane to turn right, except there were 8 or so cars stopped at 
                the light so she couldn't turn. She was driving a Lexus and had a 
                book in her lap (!!!) so I think she was clueless not unfriendly.

                Is it just me? Is it the kid on the back? I think kids, particularly 
                completely adorable ones like mine (not that I'm biased) do help 
                bring the goodwill. :)

                Abigail


                JJ Ark

                "Gentlemen, this meeting is adjourned. "  -- O-Ren Ishii. Kill Bill, Vol 1




                -- 
                Sean Moore
                moore.sean@gmail. com


              • Abigail vR
                Judging by your experiences I m going to say that my particular town is nicer on a bike. I am lucky that there are bike paths most places and that if there
                Message 7 of 13 , Sep 30, 2008
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                  Judging by your experiences I'm going to say that my particular town
                  is nicer on a bike. I am lucky that there are bike paths most places
                  and that if there aren't I'm usually on small streets with low speed
                  traffic and not too many people in a big rush, or just plain
                  obnoxious. That doesn't excuse the lady who glared at me and gave me
                  the finger because I was in the middle of the lane to go left on a
                  very small street. I'm going to go with JJ's sentiment and try to
                  focus on the friendly waving people and not the jerks.

                  Now, I just need to convince my friends who drive past not to honk at
                  me. It scares me every time!

                  Abigail

                  On Sep 30, 2008, at 2:41 PM, Devian Gilbert wrote:

                  > generally speaking the world is a nicer place on a bicycle
                  >
                  > i firmly believe in waving to your neighbors, etc...
                  >
                  > but America is full of people enclosed in their cars... that
                  > social, and physical distancing... combined with the anonymity
                  > found behind glass and steel... with the reinforcement of sheer
                  > horsepower under foot... not to mention velocity...
                  >
                  > people often become disassociated
                  > suddenly the description has become... that of a vehicle... cuz
                  > that's what we see... we dont identify the driver... therefore we
                  > associate the scenario with inanimate objects...
                  >
                  > there's a million little things out there.
                  >
                  > my buddy lived in San Jose for almost 20yrs
                  > he's had kids in nip-speed cars throw fountain drinks at him
                  > and one day a person in a red BMW intentionally swerved at him
                  > while passing, sending off the pavement just past the overpass of
                  > Monterey Hwy, while on Blossom Hill Rd (hwy 82?)
                  > my buddy, on a road bike, was forced down the embankment... where
                  > he finally crashed, and broke his nose.
                  > and get this... the on ramp is a clover leaf shape, and when he got
                  > up off the ground it was a couple of kids stopped, laffing at him...
                  >
                  > ya... crappy things do happen.
                  >
                  > when i was a kid maybe 1974 Fresno, Ca
                  > my dad being a white guy, with long blonde hair... vietnam vet...
                  > married to a Filipino girl... riding a black Ciocc road bike... in
                  > cut off jean shorts, and no shirt...
                  > oh ya.... gee... imagine how "friendly" that was!
                  >
                  > in the last year... in Ventura,Ca
                  > there was a group of young latino men drinking beers on the corner
                  > of the shopping center where Ralphs is at, 9372 Telephone Rd,
                  > Ventura, Ca. 93004
                  > i rode by to get groceries...
                  > on the way out...
                  > th! e bike p ath actually being on the sidewalk...i turned in front
                  > of them, and one of the guys broke a beer bottle on the ground
                  > right in front of me... which of course, just cut the tyres all to
                  > bits...
                  > i kept riding home to my grandparents house blocks away, NASCAR
                  > style... something like coming into pit row... with tyres shredded
                  >
                  > in Santa Paula, Ca
                  > one day i was riding with a small group on a road ride, and on
                  > Telegraph Rd, and i think S. Beckwith Rd...
                  > a group of guys in a mini van, pulled along side, swerved at us...
                  > said some things in spanish... i flipped them off, and they started
                  > swinging at the group with a baseball bat!
                  > i called that into Santa Paula PD right then and there...
                  >
                  > crazy things like that happen.
                  >
                  > people in cars are often in a hurry, under some kind of pressure,
                  > anxiety of some sort, and their alter-egos often act out.
                  >
                  > heck...
                  > in Austin, Tx... somewhat recently (in the last year or two),
                  > someone was killed on their bicycle after a car ran into them... it
                  > made the news... it was on the News Channel's website, and you'd be
                  > blown away at the Masse Public's response. Motorists there viewed
                  > bicycle traffic as a nuisance, a safety issue, and that they
                  > (bicyclists) have no RIGHT to be on the road.
                  > thats Austin...
                  > (now i bet there will be a bunch of "how great Austin" is kind of
                  > stuff) go ride around the lake.
                  >
                  > my point being... there are often times, people out there that
                  > don't like bicycle traffic.
                  > cars are dangerous, and god only knows what people are thinking,
                  > feeling, acting... or what meds they are taking
                  >
                  > check out this stupid video i shot
                  > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6IPIX0PYiQ
                  >
                  > i was on Ft. Ord, riding home... when i spotted a Bob Cat...
                  > a car drives by, the cat runs into the road... the driver of the
                  > Cadillac Escalade, just ran right over it... didn't even stop.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > "Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for
                  > the human race." H.G. Wells
                  > http://www.AsanaCycles.com
                  >
                  >
                  > On Sep 30, 2008, at 12:30 PM, Sean Moore wrote:
                  >
                  >>
                  >> Metro Denver seems really kind! to cycl ists. I'm of the opinion
                  >> that it's because there has been a bike infrastructure since 1970
                  >> so everyone is just used to bicycles. Add to that our outdoor-
                  >> centric culture and if the driver doesn't ride themselves they
                  >> probably know someone who does.
                  >>
                  >> On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 11:33 AM, JJ Ark <jj@...> wrote:
                  >> Hmmm...
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> I thought this a bit odd, too.
                  >>
                  >> I live in Portland, but things are quite friendly around here. Of
                  >> course I get honked at, but it's never too horrible.
                  >>
                  >> On Saturday, I organized a small ride (We call it a Stroll) for
                  >> newbies, and we rode down the Lincoln bike boulevard, and through
                  >> Ladd's and then downtown and back again. We were 2 abreast most
                  >> of the way, and we had one honk from a driver, and, ironically, we
                  >> were single file at that time. Older Fella wasn't happy that I was
                  >> owning the lane at a risky intersection. So Sorry!
                  >>
                  >> We waved and smiled back.
                  >>
                  >> What does this tangent mean?
                  >>
                  >> People are generally nice.
                  >>
                  >> The flipside of that is the really awkward part, tho: when people
                  >> AREN'T nice, they are genuinely bad people. I have no doubt that
                  >> for every 10000 people I meet who are nice, pleasant or merely
                  >> ambivalent there is going to be one person who will make me glad
                  >> there are police, and thankful that I carry a big stick in my
                  >> freeloader (a sjambok.)
                  >>
                  >> We must not focus on the abberation, instead keeping our focus on
                  >> the vast majority of folks who are out to live their lives, ge! t
                  >> some e xercise and get home to their families.
                  >>
                  >> JJ
                  >>
                  >> On Sep 30, 2008, at 9:14 AM, Abigail vR wrote:
                  >>
                  >>> Hi All,
                  >>>
                  >>> After reading Devian's posts about the hip checks and the pit bull
                  >>> (!!) I wondered if my experience has been atypical or if it's
                  >>> where I
                  >>> live because I have found that here in Silicon Valley, the world is
                  >>> mostly friendlier when I'm on my bike. I get the little smile and
                  >>> nod
                  >>> of greeting from other bikers, people asking me where I got my bike,
                  >>> a woman standing on the sidewalk collecting money and/or signatures
                  >>> for Environment California greeting my son and I with, "hello,
                  >>> beautiful bike people!" and one guy on another bike stopped at a
                  >>> light shouting, "Nice Xtracycle!"
                  >>>
                  >>> Of course, I have been beeped at for being in the bike lane (the guy
                  >>> wanted to turn right, I don't know why he didn't go around me, no
                  >>> one
                  >>> was in the right hand driving lane) and today a woman pulled into
                  >>> the
                  >>> bike lane to turn right, except there were 8 or so cars stopped at
                  >>> the light so she couldn't turn. She was driving a Lexus and had a
                  >>> book in her lap (!!!) so I think she was clueless not unfriendly.
                  >>>
                  >>> Is it just me? Is it the kid on the back? I think kids, particularly
                  >>> completely adorable ones like mine (not that I'm biased) do help
                  >>> bring t he goodwill. :)
                  >>>
                  >>> Abigail
                  >>>
                  >>
                  >> JJ Ark
                  >> jj@...
                  >>
                  >> "Gentlemen, this meeting is adjourned. " -- O-Ren Ishii. Kill
                  >> Bill, Vol 1
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> --
                  >> Sean Moore
                  >> moore.sean@...
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Abigail vR
                  What a great story, Carl!
                  Message 8 of 13 , Sep 30, 2008
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                    What a great story, Carl!

                    On Sep 30, 2008, at 12:05 PM, kwikfile08 wrote:

                    > with my bright Neon Yellow vest I feel like Weird Al in his Video
                    > "White and Nerdy" far from being seen as a Goof, The positive vibe is
                    > always out there. One time a guy in a heavy Spanish area Yell
                    > "Libertad!"
                    >
                    > Liberty! Wow what effect it had on me because he was waiting for the
                    > bus in a wheel chair and was happy I was FREE.
                    >
                  • grace
                    Does the unclean version have the license plate number? ....jus wonderin ... From: Devian Gilbert Subject: Re: [rootsradicals] is the
                    Message 9 of 13 , Sep 30, 2008
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                      Does the unclean version have the license plate number? ....jus wonderin'

                      --- On Tue, 9/30/08, Devian Gilbert <asanacycles@...> wrote:
                      From: Devian Gilbert <asanacycles@...>
                      Subject: Re: [rootsradicals] is the world friendlier on a bike?
                      To: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
                      Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 4:41 PM

                      generally speaking the world is a nicer place on a bicycle
                      i firmly believe in waving to your neighbors, etc...

                      but America is full of people enclosed in their cars... that social, and physical distancing.. . combined with the anonymity found behind glass and steel... with the reinforcement of sheer horsepower under foot...  not to mention velocity...

                      people often become disassociated 
                      suddenly the description has become... that of a vehicle... cuz that's what we see... we dont identify the driver... therefore we associate the scenario with inanimate objects...

                      there's a million little things out there.

                      my buddy lived in San Jose for almost 20yrs
                      he's had kids in nip-speed cars throw fountain drinks at him 
                      and one day a person in a red BMW intentionally swerved at him while passing, sending off the pavement just past the overpass of Monterey Hwy, while on Blossom Hill Rd (hwy 82?)
                      my buddy, on a road bike, was forced down the embankment.. . where he finally crashed, and broke his nose.
                      and get this... the on ramp is a clover leaf shape, and when he got up off the ground it was a couple of kids stopped, laffing at him...

                      ya... crappy things do happen.

                      when i was a kid maybe 1974 Fresno, Ca
                      my dad being a white guy, with long blonde hair... vietnam vet... married to a Filipino girl... riding a black Ciocc road bike... in cut off jean shorts, and no shirt...
                      oh ya.... gee... imagine how "friendly" that was!

                      in the last year... in Ventura,Ca
                      there was a group of young latino men drinking beers on the corner of the shopping center where Ralphs is at, 9372 Telephone Rd, Ventura, Ca. 93004
                      i rode by to get groceries...
                      on the way out... 
                      the bike path actually being on the sidewalk...i turned in front of them, and one of the guys broke a beer bottle on the ground right in front of me... which of course, just cut the tyres all to bits...
                      i kept riding home to my grandparents house blocks away, NASCAR style... something like coming into pit row... with tyres shredded

                      in Santa Paula, Ca
                      one day i was riding with a small group on a road ride, and on Telegraph Rd, and i think S. Beckwith Rd...
                      a group of guys in a mini van, pulled along side, swerved at us... said some things in spanish... i flipped them off, and they started swinging at the group with a baseball bat!
                      i called that into Santa Paula PD right then and there...

                      crazy things like that happen.

                      people in cars are often in a hurry, under some kind of pressure, anxiety of some sort, and their alter-egos often act out.

                      heck...
                      in Austin, Tx... somewhat recently (in the last year or two), someone was killed on their bicycle after a car ran into them... it made the news... it was on the News Channel's website, and you'd be blown away at the Masse Public's response.  Motorists there viewed bicycle traffic as a nuisance, a safety issue, and that they (bicyclists) have no RIGHT to be on the road.
                      thats Austin...
                      (now i bet there will be a bunch of "how great Austin" is kind of stuff)  go ride around the lake.

                      my point being... there are often times, people out there that don't like bicycle traffic.
                      cars are dangerous, and god only knows what people are thinking, feeling, acting... or what meds they are taking

                      check out this stupid video i shot

                      i was on Ft. Ord, riding home... when i spotted a Bob Cat...
                      a car drives by, the cat runs into the road... the driver of the Cadillac Escalade, just ran right over it... didn't even stop.



                      "Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the human race." H.G. Wells


                      On Sep 30, 2008, at 12:30 PM, Sean Moore wrote:


                      Metro Denver seems really kind to cyclists.  I'm of the opinion that it's because there has been a bike infrastructure since 1970 so everyone is just used to bicycles.  Add to that our outdoor-centric culture and if the driver doesn't ride themselves they probably know someone who does.

                      On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 11:33 AM, JJ Ark <jj@scooternut. com> wrote:
                      Hmmm...

                      I thought this a bit odd, too.

                      I live in Portland, but things are quite friendly around here. Of course I get honked at, but it's never too horrible.

                      On Saturday, I organized a small ride (We call it a Stroll) for newbies, and we rode down the Lincoln bike boulevard, and through Ladd's and then downtown and back again.  We were 2 abreast most of the way, and we had one honk from a driver, and, ironically, we were single file at that time. Older Fella wasn't happy that I was owning the lane at a risky intersection. So Sorry!

                      We waved and smiled back.

                      What does this tangent mean? 

                      People are generally nice. 

                      The flipside of that is the really awkward part, tho: when people AREN'T nice, they are genuinely bad people. I have no doubt that for every 10000 people I meet who are nice, pleasant or merely ambivalent there is going to be one person who will make me glad there are police, and thankful that I carry a big stick in my freeloader (a sjambok.) 

                      We must not focus on the abberation, instead keeping our focus on the vast majority of folks who are out to live their lives, get some exercise and get home to their families.

                      JJ

                      On Sep 30, 2008, at 9:14 AM, Abigail vR wrote:

                      Hi All,

                      After reading Devian's posts about the hip checks and the pit bull 
                      (!!) I wondered if my experience has been atypical or if it's where I 
                      live because I have found that here in Silicon Valley, the world is 
                      mostly friendlier when I'm on my bike. I get the little smile and nod 
                      of greeting from other bikers, people asking me where I got my bike, 
                      a woman standing on the sidewalk collecting money and/or signatures 
                      for Environment California greeting my son and I with, "hello, 
                      beautiful bike people!" and one guy on another bike stopped at a 
                      light shouting, "Nice Xtracycle!"

                      Of course, I have been beeped at for being in the bike lane (the guy 
                      wanted to turn right, I don't know why he didn't go around me, no one 
                      was in the right hand driving lane) and today a woman pulled into the 
                      bike lane to turn right, except there were 8 or so cars stopped at 
                      the light so she couldn't turn. She was driving a Lexus and had a 
                      book in her lap (!!!) so I think she was clueless not unfriendly.

                      Is it just me? Is it the kid on the back? I think kids, particularly 
                      completely adorable ones like mine (not that I'm biased) do help 
                      bring the goodwill. :)

                      Abigail

                      JJ Ark

                      "Gentlemen, this meeting is adjourned. "  -- O-Ren Ishii. Kill Bill, Vol 1




                      -- 
                      Sean Moore
                      moore.sean@gmail. com



                    • Devian Gilbert
                      no as ironic as it was, i turned the camera away at that moment... at the time, i was really upset over it... anyways... ya... huh? people and cars... Every
                      Message 10 of 13 , Sep 30, 2008
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                        no 
                        as ironic as it was, i turned the camera away at that moment...
                        at the time, i was really upset over it... 
                        anyways... ya... huh?  people and cars...


                        "Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the human race." H.G. Wells


                        On Sep 30, 2008, at 5:02 PM, grace wrote:


                        Does the unclean version have the license plate number? ....jus wonderin'

                        --- On Tue, 9/30/08, Devian Gilbert <asanacycles@ mac.com> wrote:
                        From: Devian Gilbert <asanacycles@ mac.com>
                        Subject: Re: [rootsradicals] is the world friendlier on a bike?
                        To: rootsradicals@ yahoogroups. com
                        Date: Tuesday, September 30, 2008, 4:41 PM

                        generally speaking the world is a nicer place on a bicycle
                        i firmly believe in waving to your neighbors, etc...

                        but America is full of people enclosed in their cars... that social, and physical distancing.. . combined with the anonymity found behind glass and steel... with the reinforcement of sheer horsepower under foot...  not to mention velocity...

                        people often become disassociated 
                        suddenly the description has become... that of a vehicle... cuz that's what we see... we dont identify the driver... therefore we associate the scenario with inanimate objects...

                        there's a million little things out there.

                        my buddy lived in San Jose for almost 20yrs
                        he's had kids in nip-speed cars throw fountain drinks at him 
                        and one day a person in a red BMW intentionally swerved at him while passing, sending off the pavement just past the overpass of Monterey Hwy, while on Blossom Hill Rd (hwy 82?)
                        my buddy, on a road bike, was forced down the embankment.. . where he finally crashed, and broke his nose.
                        and get this... the on ramp is a clover leaf shape, and when he got up off the ground it was a couple of kids stopped, laffing at him...

                        ya... crappy things do happen.

                        when i was a kid maybe 1974 Fresno, Ca
                        my dad being a white guy, with long blonde hair... vietnam vet... married to a Filipino girl... riding a black Ciocc road bike... in cut off jean shorts, and no shirt...
                        oh ya.... gee... imagine how "friendly" that was!

                        in the last year... in Ventura,Ca
                        there was a group of young latino men drinking beers on the corner of the shopping center where Ralphs is at, 9372 Telephone Rd, Ventura, Ca. 93004
                        i rode by to get groceries...
                        on the way out... 
                        the bike path actually being on the sidewalk...i turned in front of them, and one of the guys broke a beer bottle on the ground right in front of me... which of course, just cut the tyres all to bits...
                        i kept riding home to my grandparents house blocks away, NASCAR style... something like coming into pit row... with tyres shredded

                        in Santa Paula, Ca
                        one day i was riding with a small group on a road ride, and on Telegraph Rd, and i think S. Beckwith Rd...
                        a group of guys in a mini van, pulled along side, swerved at us... said some things in spanish... i flipped them off, and they started swinging at the group with a baseball bat!
                        i called that into Santa Paula PD right then and there...

                        crazy things like that happen.

                        people in cars are often in a hurry, under some kind of pressure, anxiety of some sort, and their alter-egos often act out.

                        heck...
                        in Austin, Tx... somewhat recently (in the last year or two), someone was killed on their bicycle after a car ran into them... it made the news... it was on the News Channel's website, and you'd be blown away at the Masse Public's response.  Motorists there viewed bicycle traffic as a nuisance, a safety issue, and that they (bicyclists) have no RIGHT to be on the road.
                        thats Austin...
                        (now i bet there will be a bunch of "how great Austin" is kind of stuff)  go ride around the lake.

                        my point being... there are often times, people out there that don't like bicycle traffic.
                        cars are dangerous, and god only knows what people are thinking, feeling, acting... or what meds they are taking

                        check out this stupid video i shot

                        i was on Ft. Ord, riding home... when i spotted a Bob Cat...
                        a car drives by, the cat runs into the road... the driver of the Cadillac Escalade, just ran right over it... didn't even stop.



                        "Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the human race." H.G. Wells


                        On Sep 30, 2008, at 12:30 PM, Sean Moore wrote:


                        Metro Denver seems really kind to cyclists.  I'm of the opinion that it's because there has been a bike infrastructure since 1970 so everyone is just used to bicycles.  Add to that our outdoor-centric culture and if the driver doesn't ride themselves they probably know someone who does.

                        On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 11:33 AM, JJ Ark <jj@scooternut. com> wrote:
                        Hmmm...

                        I thought this a bit odd, too.

                        I live in Portland, but things are quite friendly around here. Of course I get honked at, but it's never too horrible.

                        On Saturday, I organized a small ride (We call it a Stroll) for newbies, and we rode down the Lincoln bike boulevard, and through Ladd's and then downtown and back again.  We were 2 abreast most of the way, and we had one honk from a driver, and, ironically, we were single file at that time. Older Fella wasn't happy that I was owning the lane at a risky intersection. So Sorry!

                        We waved and smiled back.

                        What does this tangent mean? 

                        People are generally nice. 

                        The flipside of that is the really awkward part, tho: when people AREN'T nice, they are genuinely bad people. I have no doubt that for every 10000 people I meet who are nice, pleasant or merely ambivalent there is going to be one person who will make me glad there are police, and thankful that I carry a big stick in my freeloader (a sjambok.) 

                        We must not focus on the abberation, instead keeping our focus on the vast majority of folks who are out to live their lives, get some exercise and get home to their families.

                        JJ

                        On Sep 30, 2008, at 9:14 AM, Abigail vR wrote:

                        Hi All,

                        After reading Devian's posts about the hip checks and the pit bull 
                        (!!) I wondered if my experience has been atypical or if it's where I 
                        live because I have found that here in Silicon Valley, the world is 
                        mostly friendlier when I'm on my bike. I get the little smile and nod 
                        of greeting from other bikers, people asking me where I got my bike, 
                        a woman standing on the sidewalk collecting money and/or signatures 
                        for Environment California greeting my son and I with, "hello, 
                        beautiful bike people!" and one guy on another bike stopped at a 
                        light shouting, "Nice Xtracycle!"

                        Of course, I have been beeped at for being in the bike lane (the guy 
                        wanted to turn right, I don't know why he didn't go around me, no one 
                        was in the right hand driving lane) and today a woman pulled into the 
                        bike lane to turn right, except there were 8 or so cars stopped at 
                        the light so she couldn't turn. She was driving a Lexus and had a 
                        book in her lap (!!!) so I think she was clueless not unfriendly.

                        Is it just me? Is it the kid on the back? I think kids, particularly 
                        completely adorable ones like mine (not that I'm biased) do help 
                        bring the goodwill. :)

                        Abigail

                        JJ Ark

                        "Gentlemen, this meeting is adjourned. "  -- O-Ren Ishii. Kill Bill, Vol 1




                        -- 
                        Sean Moore
                        moore.sean@gmail. com





                      • earthjeni
                        The world definitely IS friendlier on a bike, epecially a cargo bike loaded with kids! It seems to make other people happy to see us out there. My kids BEG
                        Message 11 of 13 , Oct 1, 2008
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                          The world definitely IS friendlier on a bike, epecially a cargo bike
                          loaded with kids! It seems to make other people happy to see us out
                          there. My kids BEG be to ride them around on the X all the time,
                          even when its raining...when I have to drive them to school because
                          the roads are just too wet, they are so bummed. When I pick them up
                          from school, all the parents and kids are still interested, even
                          though we're a month into school.

                          However, I have an alter ego (as I suspect many on this board do) as
                          a roadie and I have to admit that that is sometimes a different
                          situation. However, I find the cars that I encounter that have
                          something "helpful" to say do, in fact, think they are being helpful
                          and telling me something I should know. Its very funny. I live in
                          Southampton on the eastern end of Long Island and ride a lot from
                          here to Montauk (which is THE BEST place to ride out here, if you're
                          visiting) and in the summer there are so many bikes, and we have such
                          an outdoor culture, that both riders and cars seem to peacefully co-
                          exist.

                          I should mention as an aside, when I used to live in Montauk, the
                          Citizens Advisory Committe, last year, wanted to pass a resolution
                          RESTRICTING bicycles because they felt so many bikes on the roads was
                          becoming unsafe. When my ex-husband told me about this, we had a
                          good laugh. This is the same group that allegedly protects our
                          quality of life, etc. What better quality of life is there than
                          riding your bike everywhere with your family and friends?
                        • Morgan
                          ... I have definitely noticed a big difference in the friendliness/caution of drivers when I have my daughter on the back. That s a good thing, for sure. But
                          Message 12 of 13 , Oct 1, 2008
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                            > Is it just me? Is it the kid on the back? I think kids, particularly
                            > completely adorable ones like mine (not that I'm biased) do help
                            > bring the goodwill. :)

                            I have definitely noticed a big difference in the friendliness/caution
                            of drivers when I have my daughter on the back. That's a good thing,
                            for sure.

                            But also, I have noticed a big difference depending on my own
                            attitude. If I set out with a negative, aggressive attitude, it
                            certainly seems that drives reciprocate. On the other hand, if I set
                            out with a happy attitude where I give drivers the benefit of the
                            doubt, then things seem for the most part much better. For example
                            you gave the woman with book in her lap benefit of the doubt. I think
                            most (98%) of drivers who do obnoxious things don't mean harm - they
                            are just being stupid or inattentive. While it is critical to bike
                            defensively in either case, ones emotional responses to such auto
                            misbehavior don't need to be automatically negative. In fact, being
                            positive and friendly is much more likely to effect a change in
                            another person than yelling at them or flipping them off (based on my
                            own experience).

                            I'll also note that drivers treat me better when I wear my "Marvin the
                            Martian" helmet that was custom made by a friend of mine. It is
                            really funny. And drivers enjoy the sense of humor it conveys, giving
                            me more space on average.

                            Morgan
                          • Andrea Richards
                            I ve noticed something similar. I think a lot of people in cars have glass box syndrome . They re so used to the TV they treat what they see out their
                            Message 13 of 13 , Oct 8, 2008
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                              I've noticed something similar. I
                              think a lot of people in cars have "glass box syndrome". They're so used to the TV they treat what they see out their car windows like their entertainment, especially as passengers.

                              Fat Chick on a regular Ol' bike " I'm bored! I'll yell something stupid out the window at her"

                              Same Fat Chick on an oddly long bike with neon lights and music blaring "Hey lookatthat! cool!"

                              I'm happy to use any advantage I can get ;-)

                              --- On Wed, 10/1/08, Morgan <mcgurme@...> wrote:

                              > From: Morgan <mcgurme@...>
                              > Subject: [rootsradicals] Re:is the world friendlier on a bike?
                              > To: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
                              > Date: Wednesday, October 1, 2008, 6:54 AM
                              > > Is it just me? Is it the kid on the back? I think kids,
                              > particularly
                              > > completely adorable ones like mine (not that I'm
                              > biased) do help
                              > > bring the goodwill. :)
                              >
                              > I have definitely noticed a big difference in the
                              > friendliness/caution
                              > of drivers when I have my daughter on the back. That's
                              > a good thing,
                              > for sure.
                              >
                              > But also, I have noticed a big difference depending on my
                              > own
                              > attitude. If I set out with a negative, aggressive
                              > attitude, it
                              > certainly seems that drives reciprocate. On the other
                              > hand, if I set
                              > out with a happy attitude where I give drivers the benefit
                              > of the
                              > doubt, then things seem for the most part much better. For
                              > example
                              > you gave the woman with book in her lap benefit of the
                              > doubt. I think
                              > most (98%) of drivers who do obnoxious things don't
                              > mean harm - they
                              > are just being stupid or inattentive. While it is critical
                              > to bike
                              > defensively in either case, ones emotional responses to
                              > such auto
                              > misbehavior don't need to be automatically negative.
                              > In fact, being
                              > positive and friendly is much more likely to effect a
                              > change in
                              > another person than yelling at them or flipping them off
                              > (based on my
                              > own experience).
                              >
                              > I'll also note that drivers treat me better when I wear
                              > my "Marvin the
                              > Martian" helmet that was custom made by a friend of
                              > mine. It is
                              > really funny. And drivers enjoy the sense of humor it
                              > conveys, giving
                              > me more space on average.
                              >
                              > Morgan
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