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A wheel mystery

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  • Murray Neill
    A funny thing happened on my way home today... I was 30km into a 35km ride home, partly loaded (2 didgeridus in a bag on the longloader, some clothes and small
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 18, 2006
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      A funny thing happened on my way home today...

      I was 30km into a 35km ride home, partly loaded (2 didgeridus in a bag
      on the longloader, some clothes and small camera bag on the other
      side), when got the feeling of drag on my back wheel. I thought I had
      a flat but when I stopped and check the back tire is was still fully
      inflated. I began riding again but the drag was still there. I looked
      down at the back wheel as I was riding and saw that it was badly
      buckled! The back brake was rubbing the rim each revolution. Weird
      thing is I have no idea how this happened. I hadn't been over any
      curbs (none around), or had any collisions, or used a bike stand. All
      the riding I've done today (or this week) has been easy road riding,
      nothing bumpy. The buckle is so bad I think it must have only just
      happened; I would have noticed it. I can't, for the life of me,
      figure out how my back wheel suddenly got buckled. I disconnected the
      back brake and struggled home. The tire was still rubbing on the frame
      slightly due to the buckle which slowed me down a lot.
      Because this is puzzling me so much I thought I'd ask here if anyone
      else has had a wheel mysteriously buckle on them, or perhaps offer an
      explaination. BTW the rims are the standard ones that came on my 2005
      Bauer Hardline mountain bike.

      Murray
    • Devian Gilbert
      I ve had wheels let go plenty of times. usually what happens is; either a spoke breaks at the head in the hub flange or a spoke nipple breaks. One of my
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 18, 2006
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        I've had wheels "let go" plenty of times.
        usually what happens is;
        either a spoke breaks at the head in the hub flange
        or
        a spoke nipple breaks.
        One of my buddies is about 200lbs and is VERY strong, I've seen him pull spokes out of the rim. (DT Swiss road rim)

        the thing with wheels is that they depend on tension.
        the hub is "hanging" from the rim.

        when you hold just a spoke in your hand, it is easy to bend it.  all you have to do is push it.
        kind of like string or rope.
        a spoke is VERY strong when its being pulled.
        when its being pushed on it flexes.
        this is why a hub "hangs" in position relative to the rim.

        typically what causes a wheel to fail is improper tension.
        that is...
        when a wheel is properly built, the tension from spoke to spoke should be as even as possible.

        when a spoke is loose, or tension is not even
        spokes end up having movement
        that is not good
        as the spoke flexes (cycles) fatigue occurs
        which in turn...produces a crack
        twang!
        so there goes a spoke...
        now the wheel is very much uneven
        uneven tension, the true is out

        as the wheel continues its use in rotation
        the condition worsens

        I've seen wheels let go and be able to repair them
        new spoke, true the wheel, etc
        but...
        the wheel will never be the same again.  forever it will not be uniform in tension.

        a new rim, not being laced up to a hub yet, should be true.
        the rim makes up a lot of strength in the wheel.
        there is a lot of cumulative tension by all the spokes
        when one spoke suddenly breaks...
        the spoke opposite of it pulls the rim in that direction
        now the rim has been bent...
        was it by the force of a bump?
        or by the force of the spokes pulling it?
        hard to say...it happens instantly.

        in this case, i'd say that the wheel simply flexed to the point where a spoke broke
        the wheel let loose
        the rear wheel is so far back there, along with cargo items
        that the distinctive "twang" of a spoke breaking wasn't noticed or recognized  (imagine a piano wire being cut loose....well...the sound is not quite so dramatic, but you get the idea)

        there is a lot of value in a properly built wheel.

        sorry to hear about your wheel
        the upshot is that now you'll have a new one



        peace...........d



        On Oct 18, 2006, at 12:02 AM, Murray Neill wrote:

        A funny thing happened on my way home today...

        I was 30km into a 35km ride home, partly loaded (2 didgeridus in a bag
        on the longloader, some clothes and small camera bag on the other
        side), when got the feeling of drag on my back wheel. I thought I had
        a flat but when I stopped and check the back tire is was still fully
        inflated. I began riding again but the drag was still there. I looked
        down at the back wheel as I was riding and saw that it was badly
        buckled! The back brake was rubbing the rim each revolution. Weird
        thing is I have no idea how this happened. I hadn't been over any
        curbs (none around), or had any collisions, or used a bike stand. All
        the riding I've done today (or this week) has been easy road riding,
        nothing bumpy. The buckle is so bad I think it must have only just
        happened; I would have noticed it. I can't, for the life of me,
        figure out how my back wheel suddenly got buckled. I disconnected the
        back brake and struggled home. The tire was still rubbing on the frame
        slightly due to the buckle which slowed me down a lot.
        Because this is puzzling me so much I thought I'd ask here if anyone
        else has had a wheel mysteriously buckle on them, or perhaps offer an
        explaination. BTW the rims are the standard ones that came on my 2005
        Bauer Hardline mountain bike.

        Murray


      • Christopher Palmer
        Any spokes broken? Or any spoke nipples stripped out? CTP
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 18, 2006
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          Any spokes broken? Or any spoke nipples stripped out?

          CTP

          At 12:02 AM 10/18/2006, you wrote:
          >A funny thing happened on my way home today...
          >
          >I was 30km into a 35km ride home, partly loaded (2 didgeridus in a bag
          >on the longloader, some clothes and small camera bag on the other
          >side), when got the feeling of drag on my back wheel. I thought I had
          >a flat but when I stopped and check the back tire is was still fully
          >inflated. I began riding again but the drag was still there. I looked
          >down at the back wheel as I was riding and saw that it was badly
          >buckled! The back brake was rubbing the rim each revolution. Weird
          >thing is I have no idea how this happened. I hadn't been over any
          >curbs (none around), or had any collisions, or used a bike stand. All
          >the riding I've done today (or this week) has been easy road riding,
          >nothing bumpy. The buckle is so bad I think it must have only just
          >happened; I would have noticed it. I can't, for the life of me,
          >figure out how my back wheel suddenly got buckled. I disconnected the
          >back brake and struggled home. The tire was still rubbing on the frame
          >slightly due to the buckle which slowed me down a lot.
          >Because this is puzzling me so much I thought I'd ask here if anyone
          >else has had a wheel mysteriously buckle on them, or perhaps offer an
          >explaination. BTW the rims are the standard ones that came on my 2005
          >Bauer Hardline mountain bike.
          >
          >Murray
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >You're getting this message because you signed up to be an Xtracycle roots
          >radical.
          >
          >To Post a message, send it to: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >ride to believe.
          >Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
        • Murray Neill
          Devian, Thanks for your reply. I guess I m just surprised at how delicate a wheel can be. If there had been a twang I wouldn t have heard it as I was riding
          Message 4 of 7 , Oct 18, 2006
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            Devian,
            Thanks for your reply. I guess I'm just surprised at how delicate a
            wheel can be. If there had been a 'twang' I wouldn't have heard it as
            I was riding with my earphones in listening to the radio.
            I could never understand why anyone would spend hundreds of dollars on
            a rim... now I do.
            Its off to the shop today to get it replaced. Means having to drive to
            work. Bleh.
            Murray
            --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, Devian Gilbert <asanacycles@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > I've had wheels "let go" plenty of times.
            > usually what happens is;
            > either a spoke breaks at the head in the hub flange
            > or
            > a spoke nipple breaks.
            > One of my buddies is about 200lbs and is VERY strong, I've seen him
            > pull spokes out of the rim. (DT Swiss road rim)
            >
            > the thing with wheels is that they depend on tension.
            > the hub is "hanging" from the rim.
            >
            > when you hold just a spoke in your hand, it is easy to bend it. all
            > you have to do is push it.
            > kind of like string or rope.
            > a spoke is VERY strong when its being pulled.
            > when its being pushed on it flexes.
            > this is why a hub "hangs" in position relative to the rim.
            >
            > typically what causes a wheel to fail is improper tension.
            > that is...
            > when a wheel is properly built, the tension from spoke to spoke
            > should be as even as possible.
            >
            > when a spoke is loose, or tension is not even
            > spokes end up having movement
            > that is not good
            > as the spoke flexes (cycles) fatigue occurs
            > which in turn...produces a crack
            > twang!
            > so there goes a spoke...
            > now the wheel is very much uneven
            > uneven tension, the true is out
            >
            > as the wheel continues its use in rotation
            > the condition worsens
            >
            > I've seen wheels let go and be able to repair them
            > new spoke, true the wheel, etc
            > but...
            > the wheel will never be the same again. forever it will not be
            > uniform in tension.
            >
            > a new rim, not being laced up to a hub yet, should be true.
            > the rim makes up a lot of strength in the wheel.
            > there is a lot of cumulative tension by all the spokes
            > when one spoke suddenly breaks...
            > the spoke opposite of it pulls the rim in that direction
            > now the rim has been bent...
            > was it by the force of a bump?
            > or by the force of the spokes pulling it?
            > hard to say...it happens instantly.
            >
            > in this case, i'd say that the wheel simply flexed to the point where
            > a spoke broke
            > the wheel let loose
            > the rear wheel is so far back there, along with cargo items
            > that the distinctive "twang" of a spoke breaking wasn't noticed or
            > recognized (imagine a piano wire being cut loose....well...the sound
            > is not quite so dramatic, but you get the idea)
            >
            > there is a lot of value in a properly built wheel.
            >
            > sorry to hear about your wheel
            > the upshot is that now you'll have a new one
            >
            >
            >
            > peace...........d
          • John Speare
            ... Murry, In my expereince, a well-built wheel is really not delicate and can take many years (multiple thousands of miles) of loaded and hard riding without
            Message 5 of 7 , Oct 18, 2006
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              On 10/18/06, Murray Neill <murrayneill@...> wrote:
              >
              > Devian,
              > Thanks for your reply. I guess I'm just surprised at how delicate a
              > wheel can be. If there had been a 'twang' I wouldn't have heard it as


              Murry,

              In my expereince, a well-built wheel is really not delicate and can
              take many years (multiple thousands of miles) of loaded and hard
              riding without failure.

              I assume you are running 26" wheels: take a look at the "Brutal Beast"
              wheels here: http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/wheels/559.html.

              $144

              Great deal for a bomb-proof set of wheels.

              --
              John Speare
              Spokane, WA USA
              http://www.johndogfood.com/john/bikes.html
            • Murray Neill
              I couldn t see anything broken and I felt all the spokes and none were even loose. When I dropped it into the bike shop this morning the first thing the
              Message 6 of 7 , Oct 18, 2006
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                I couldn't see anything broken and I felt all the spokes and none were
                even loose. When I dropped it into the bike shop this morning the
                first thing the mechanic said was "oh... its usually a broken spoke."
                but when he inspected it he was suprised. There didn't seem to be any
                spokes loose or damaged.
                Maybe a faulty rim? The bike is only a few months from new and has
                travelled about 3500km in total.
                I'll be interested to see if what the mechanic has to say when I pick
                it up this afternoon. Maybe he'll find something when he takes it apart.

                --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, Christopher Palmer <ctp@...> wrote:
                >
                > Any spokes broken? Or any spoke nipples stripped out?
              • Tone
                While messengering in the past I have gone through many wheels with numerous spokes popping. It was a major pain. In my profession I can not afford to deal
                Message 7 of 7 , Oct 18, 2006
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                              While messengering in the past I have gone through many wheels with numerous spokes popping. It was a major pain. In my profession I can not afford to deal with the loss of time associated with constantly repairing broken spokes. After about two years of messengering I decided to switch and upgrade to mag-style wheels.

                              At the time I went with a set of the three-spoke poly-carbon fiber SPIN wheels. Within a year or two I realized they were kind of crappy compared to other mag-style wheels like Spinergy (4 spoke) and Aerospoke (5 spoke). It was no surprise to me the Spin Company went out of business. That is when I invested the extra money and upgrade to a set of Aerospoke rims. They were not cheap, at $550-even in cash… and that was with a deal because I was on very good terms with the bike shop. Normally they would sell a set of Aerospoke rims for $600 not including the tax.

                              Keep in mind this was all before I even had the Xtracycle. Eventually when I did get the Xtracycle I was even happier about having the Aerospoke rims. They are pretty strong and extremely low maintenance. Apart from the typical cargo I carry around for myself and work, I have hauled around some friends on a number of occasions who certainly weighed over 200 lbs. Eventually when I upgraded the FreeRadical frame I had to one with disc brake mounts, I also upgraded from the typical front and rear V-brakes I had to Avid mechanical disc brakes. My original aluminum Univega 750 FS did not support disc brakes on the frame or the fork it came with. I had to get a new fork, but it was definitely worth it.

                              Other than not worrying about spokes breaking and being able to run a lock through my wheel so much easier, now that I have disc brakes I also never have to worry about switching, aligning, or cleaning brake pads on a regular basis. A definite plus is I also do not have to worry about grit in the brake pads wearing down the rims, which is a big concern when you ride $500+ rims. I know $500+ seems like a lot, but considering I ride 100 to 200 miles or more a week and the Aerospoke rims have held up really well with all kind of loads for long periods of time I am quite happy.

                              I apologize if I sound like an advertising campaign for disc brakes or Aerospoke wheels, but I thought I would share my own experience with the class. J

                  Ride safe,

                  _TONE_

                   

                   

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