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Re: [rootsradicals] Re: Interested in snapdeck kid seats?

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  • Dave Lloyd
    ... Marine plywood is pricey stuff. I just paid $86 for a 4x8x1/2 sheet of the stuff (yes, it s so I can shamelessly copycat the 2 seat screw-not-snap deck
    Message 1 of 37 , Sep 2, 2008
      On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 8:44 PM, tytanup <blue73thing@...> wrote:

      > Just a couple of thoughts. I really like your setup. I would be
      > curious of the cost difference in materials for the marine plywood
      > versus solid plastic lumber, you know that stuff made of recycled
      > plastic that people are using for deck material. I'm not talking
      > about trex or any other composite, I'm talking about 100% plastic
      > formed into common lumber dimensions. The 100% plastic material is
      > somewhat heavier, but it never rots or delaminates, or splinters or
      > checks or anything else. Would be great for a Snapdeck too in that
      > regard. Just depends on your affinity for the weight. I don't think
      > you can paint it either, so colors would be whatever you could get
      > from the manufacturer.

      Marine plywood is pricey stuff. I just paid $86 for a 4x8x1/2" sheet
      of the stuff (yes, it's so I can shamelessly copycat the 2 seat
      screw-not-snap deck Manivan conversion). Honestly, I would say that
      for this application that wood is actually an ideal product from an
      engineering standpoint. It's light, relatively strong for its weight,
      and it takes fasteners and glue very well (which provides for a very
      strong joint). Marine plywood is likely the best, save Finnish birch
      plywood which might arguably be better, because the plys are
      guaranteed to be void free (better strength and fastener holding) and
      it uses high strength exterior grade glue (Finnish birch has even more
      void free plys, may be a bit lighter and also uses a very high grade
      glue, but it's also in short supply these days and quite a bit more
      expensive than standard marine plywood). There's a reason the box on
      the front of the Bakfiets is made out of marine grade plywood.

      The plastic stuff could be used, but I imagine that you would have to
      find some sort of way to epoxy in something like a tee nut to take
      threaded machine screws. Using standard wood screws you would likely
      risk stripping out the plastic material by over-torquing the fastener
      (or driving it fast enough that it would melt the plastic). Plus,
      plastic lumber, at least when I last checked, isn't certified for
      structural use. Wood is. Not that you're building a house out of the
      stuff, but to me that gives some indication of what the intended use
      is, mostly as a surface or for other non structural applications like
      handrails. If you're building a deck out of the stuff, you still
      screw into wood. On the other hand, this would likely make a great
      snapdeck substitute as Tone and the Xtracycle folks have engineered
      with the upcoming tek-deck. In that case, it's simple a flat piece,
      just like decking.

      As far as interest in the product, since I have an interest in playing
      with whirly sharp things, I'd be far more interested in plans. In
      fact, what I'm doing right now is making a mock up out of 1/2" MDF (I
      happened to have part of a sheet lying around and this is a great use
      for it) so I can use it to model the family hauling device and so I
      can make another one using the templates. (The secret to accurate
      woodworking is to never measure, use a template or story sticks
      instead. Mind you this was passed on to me by an old hippie finish
      carpenter that was missing the tips of a few fingers.) I do have a
      few remaining questions about stuff like the seat back angle, but it's
      kind of fun to see what I can remember from 10th grade trigonometry
      class. I may also do something like tack on some 3/4" material to the
      armrest portion so there's a bit wider area for the kids to rest their
      arms on.

      To the Stouts, if you're going to sell this, please set up a
      corporation to handle the sales and manufacturing.. What would give me
      the serious heebie jeebies is a product liability lawsuit. With a LLC
      someone could take the company's assets but at least your assets would
      be safe. It would truly suck if someone who is making a product like
      this to enable families to use their cars less were to be sued; It
      would suck even more for you to lose your personal assets. (Note, I'm
      not an attorney, do not pretend to be, I'm just a concerned party that
      realizes we live in an overly litigious society.)

    • Jeff Snavely
      The general public derives their sense of risk from the news media and common sense . Unfortunately, neither is a reliable source of information. On Mon, Sep
      Message 37 of 37 , Sep 15, 2008
        The general public derives their sense of risk from the news media and "common sense".

        Unfortunately, neither is a reliable source of information.

        On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 8:08 AM, Mighk Wilson <mwilson@...> wrote:

        Cara wrote:
        >> A lot of this gets back to Ken Kifer's (I think it was him) comment
        about cars being dangerous and bikes (and pedestrians) being vulnerable.

        Many people tell me they will not ride their bikes because it is

        I've found that many (most?) people do not understand the difference
        between "dangerous," "vulnerable" and "risk."

        While cyclists are indeed quite vulnerable, the risk of being harmed
        while cycling is quite low if the cyclist rides competently, maintains
        his/her machine properly, and obeys the rules of the road.

        I find myself getting less and less impressed with the intelligence of
        my fellow Americans as the years go by. They know far more about
        Britney Spears than about things that matter.


        "It's not getting any smarter out there. You have to come to terms with
        stupidity, and make it work for you."
        -- Frank Zappa

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