Re: [rootsradicals] Re: Interested in snapdeck kid seats?
- On Tue, Sep 2, 2008 at 8:44 PM, tytanup <blue73thing@...> wrote:
> Just a couple of thoughts. I really like your setup. I would beMarine plywood is pricey stuff. I just paid $86 for a 4x8x1/2" sheet
> curious of the cost difference in materials for the marine plywood
> versus solid plastic lumber, you know that stuff made of recycled
> plastic that people are using for deck material. I'm not talking
> about trex or any other composite, I'm talking about 100% plastic
> formed into common lumber dimensions. The 100% plastic material is
> somewhat heavier, but it never rots or delaminates, or splinters or
> checks or anything else. Would be great for a Snapdeck too in that
> regard. Just depends on your affinity for the weight. I don't think
> you can paint it either, so colors would be whatever you could get
> from the manufacturer.
of the stuff (yes, it's so I can shamelessly copycat the 2 seat
screw-not-snap deck Manivan conversion). Honestly, I would say that
for this application that wood is actually an ideal product from an
engineering standpoint. It's light, relatively strong for its weight,
and it takes fasteners and glue very well (which provides for a very
strong joint). Marine plywood is likely the best, save Finnish birch
plywood which might arguably be better, because the plys are
guaranteed to be void free (better strength and fastener holding) and
it uses high strength exterior grade glue (Finnish birch has even more
void free plys, may be a bit lighter and also uses a very high grade
glue, but it's also in short supply these days and quite a bit more
expensive than standard marine plywood). There's a reason the box on
the front of the Bakfiets is made out of marine grade plywood.
The plastic stuff could be used, but I imagine that you would have to
find some sort of way to epoxy in something like a tee nut to take
threaded machine screws. Using standard wood screws you would likely
risk stripping out the plastic material by over-torquing the fastener
(or driving it fast enough that it would melt the plastic). Plus,
plastic lumber, at least when I last checked, isn't certified for
structural use. Wood is. Not that you're building a house out of the
stuff, but to me that gives some indication of what the intended use
is, mostly as a surface or for other non structural applications like
handrails. If you're building a deck out of the stuff, you still
screw into wood. On the other hand, this would likely make a great
snapdeck substitute as Tone and the Xtracycle folks have engineered
with the upcoming tek-deck. In that case, it's simple a flat piece,
just like decking.
As far as interest in the product, since I have an interest in playing
with whirly sharp things, I'd be far more interested in plans. In
fact, what I'm doing right now is making a mock up out of 1/2" MDF (I
happened to have part of a sheet lying around and this is a great use
for it) so I can use it to model the family hauling device and so I
can make another one using the templates. (The secret to accurate
woodworking is to never measure, use a template or story sticks
instead. Mind you this was passed on to me by an old hippie finish
carpenter that was missing the tips of a few fingers.) I do have a
few remaining questions about stuff like the seat back angle, but it's
kind of fun to see what I can remember from 10th grade trigonometry
class. I may also do something like tack on some 3/4" material to the
armrest portion so there's a bit wider area for the kids to rest their
To the Stouts, if you're going to sell this, please set up a
corporation to handle the sales and manufacturing.. What would give me
the serious heebie jeebies is a product liability lawsuit. With a LLC
someone could take the company's assets but at least your assets would
be safe. It would truly suck if someone who is making a product like
this to enable families to use their cars less were to be sued; It
would suck even more for you to lose your personal assets. (Note, I'm
not an attorney, do not pretend to be, I'm just a concerned party that
realizes we live in an overly litigious society.)
- The general public derives their sense of risk from the news media and "common sense".
Unfortunately, neither is a reliable source of information.
On Mon, Sep 15, 2008 at 8:08 AM, Mighk Wilson <mwilson@...> wrote:
>> A lot of this gets back to Ken Kifer's (I think it was him) comment
about cars being dangerous and bikes (and pedestrians) being vulnerable.
Many people tell me they will not ride their bikes because it is
I've found that many (most?) people do not understand the difference
between "dangerous," "vulnerable" and "risk."
While cyclists are indeed quite vulnerable, the risk of being harmed
while cycling is quite low if the cyclist rides competently, maintains
his/her machine properly, and obeys the rules of the road.
I find myself getting less and less impressed with the intelligence of
my fellow Americans as the years go by. They know far more about
Britney Spears than about things that matter.
"It's not getting any smarter out there. You have to come to terms with
stupidity, and make it work for you."
-- Frank Zappa