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Re: [rootsradicals] Rohloff

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  • phaedrus
    ... This is my build: Rohloff Speedhub 500/14 CC DB OEM Tandem (I d recommend going with the external shift linkage, I went with the version that uses skewers
    Message 1 of 20 , Sep 2, 2008
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      > I have decided to go with the Rohloff hub. Any recommendation for rim and
      > spokes and for front wheel? I will have a professional build it.
      >
      > Also, I am looking for break recommendations. I definitely want disks. Hydro
      > or cable? Brands and models?

      This is my build:

      Rohloff Speedhub 500/14 CC DB OEM Tandem (I'd recommend going with the
      external shift linkage, I went with the version that uses skewers so I
      could protect it with a pitlock)

      Schmidt SON front hub

      Wheelsmith 2.0mm straight gauge spokes

      Velocity Cliffhanger Rims

      Schwalbe Big Apple 26x2.15" tires

      Avid BB7 mechanical disk brakes.

      So far, it has been bomb proof.

      I've been doored once, and last weekend, I nailed a curb that my
      heat-exhuastion-crazed mind thought had a curb cut in it and the bike
      has survived both experiences. I've hauled heavy loads on and off
      road and gone down more than one set of stairs and have not yet had an
      equipment failure.

      Of course, YMMV

      Good luck and enjoy the bike!

      - phædrus
    • Tim Lupfer
      Several companies use dot fluid including avid, hayes, formula and hope. It seems to work much better in sub-zero temperatures than mineral oil. Shimano
      Message 2 of 20 , Sep 5, 2008
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        Several companies use dot fluid including avid, hayes, formula and hope. It seems to work much better in sub-zero temperatures than mineral oil. Shimano hydraulic brakes tend to flake out around minus five or minus ten degrees. Having a spare hose on hand is always a good idea, but I think people expect them to fail more often than they actually do.

        On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 1:10 PM, Mark Garvey <lazybee45@...> wrote:

        yeah, it is usually mineral oil, DOT oil will ruin MOST (if not all!) hydraulic discs.  

      • Mark Garvey
        Actually, I don t EXPECT them to fail at all......I expect ANY mechanical apparatus that I don t know how to fix to fail an any time that it becomes critical
        Message 3 of 20 , Sep 5, 2008
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          Actually, I don't EXPECT them to fail at all......I expect ANY mechanical apparatus that I don't know how to fix to fail an any time that it becomes critical to my survival.  It may be a law of nature....If you have an irreplacable part for your bicycle or car, or whatever, the part will FAIL catastrophically somewhere West of Outer Podunk Wyo on a Friday of a 3 day weekend, leaving you stranded!  I don't really care WHAT it is!  I don't use 20 inch wheels and tires on my trailer and 26 inch wheels and tires on my bike because they are "the best" I use them because EVERY DAMNED WAL MART IN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE STOCKS THEM!   and no mater what you think of them, THE LONGEST you will have to wait to purchase a wheel, tire or tube that will WORK on your bike is about 4 or 5 hours because some of them are not open 24 hours a day!

          Same goes for brake and shift cables.  If you have cable brakes, there are cables at Wal Mart, Ace, True Value, JC Penny, Sears and a host of other places, including bike shops.

          This doesn't mean I will be a shopper at K mart or Wal Mart anytime soon, but that because the pieces are AVAILABLE, they won't break!  that is why I run a 7 speed cogset too.  You can get a replacement at Wal Mart, K mart  Etc.  A 9 speed MUST be used with a special chain, only available at GREAT expense from a bicycle shop.  Usually one that is only open on alternate Thursdays on Months with an S in them.  and you just missed the guy.  He is going on vacation for three weeks!  Besides the parts are not in stock and have to be ordered from Japan by bicycle courrier!

          This is why I use standard size parts and such,  they are AVAILABLE, which keeps the P*nct*re fairy and his friend the Cable Gnome from attacking my bike.  A part on a bicycle will break in inverse proportion to the availability of a replacement part.

          This was borne out when I owned a BSA motorcycle.  I found it espedient to order TWO of any part that broke because if I bought ONE, the damned thing would be in use for 72 hours and would FAIL again, requiring 6 hours of wrenching, two hours of Cursing and three weeks of waiting for the part to be shipped in brine via Tea Clipper from Jolly Olde to my home in the Colonies!  wherer the replacement would be either the wrong size, the wrong voltage (usually electric parts, Lucas, Prince of Darkness!) or for an entirely different vehicle...Say a Triumph TR 3 automobile rather than a BSA 441 Victor motorcycle.  with a sincere apology and a stiff upper lip the part would be shipped BACK to england, replaced with ANOTHER incorrect part in another 3 weeks.   I spent about 3 weeks total riding my BSA 441 "Victor" in the 2 years that I owned it.

          Arrrrgh!  Always use parts you can find at any gas station, hardware store, plumbing supply or Head shop.  NEVER ever have anything that needs special parts only available at great expense from some remote part of the world!

          mark

          On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 2:46 PM, Tim Lupfer <tim.lupfer@...> wrote:
          Several companies use dot fluid including avid, hayes, formula and hope. It seems to work much better in sub-zero temperatures than mineral oil. Shimano hydraulic brakes tend to flake out around minus five or minus ten degrees. Having a spare hose on hand is always a good idea, but I think people expect them to fail more often than they actually do.


          On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 1:10 PM, Mark Garvey <lazybee45@...> wrote:

          yeah, it is usually mineral oil, DOT oil will ruin MOST (if not all!) hydraulic discs.  




          --
          Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring. –Desmond Tutu
        • Tim Lupfer
          Hey Mark, I didn t mean to get you all worked up :) mostly I just wanted to put in a good word for hydraulic brakes. they work well, especially with long bikes
          Message 4 of 20 , Sep 5, 2008
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            Hey Mark,
            I didn't mean to get you all worked up :) mostly I just wanted to put in a good word for hydraulic brakes. they work well, especially with long bikes with full length housing (i.e. big dummy), and aren't nearly as difficult to work on as people often seem to think they are. there aren't that many spare parts to have on hand and once installed many setups run trouble free for years with only the infrequent task of changing pads. sure, maybe you can't stop at walmart for parts, but you can keep a stash in your freeloader or at your work bench.
            -tim

            On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 7:27 PM, Mark Garvey <lazybee45@...> wrote:

            Actually, I don't EXPECT them to fail at all......I expect ANY mechanical apparatus that I don't know how to fix to fail an any time that it becomes critical to my survival.  It may be a law of nature....If you have an irreplacable part for your bicycle or car, or whatever, the part will FAIL catastrophically somewhere West of Outer Podunk Wyo on a Friday of a 3 day weekend, leaving you stranded!  I don't really care WHAT it is!  I don't use 20 inch wheels and tires on my trailer and 26 inch wheels and tires on my bike because they are "the best" I use them because EVERY DAMNED WAL MART IN THE WESTERN HEMISPHERE STOCKS THEM!   and no mater what you think of them, THE LONGEST you will have to wait to purchase a wheel, tire or tube that will WORK on your bike is about 4 or 5 hours because some of them are not open 24 hours a day!

            Same goes for brake and shift cables.  If you have cable brakes, there are cables at Wal Mart, Ace, True Value, JC Penny, Sears and a host of other places, including bike shops.

            This doesn't mean I will be a shopper at K mart or Wal Mart anytime soon, but that because the pieces are AVAILABLE, they won't break!  that is why I run a 7 speed cogset too.  You can get a replacement at Wal Mart, K mart  Etc.  A 9 speed MUST be used with a special chain, only available at GREAT expense from a bicycle shop.  Usually one that is only open on alternate Thursdays on Months with an S in them.  and you just missed the guy.  He is going on vacation for three weeks!  Besides the parts are not in stock and have to be ordered from Japan by bicycle courrier!

            This is why I use standard size parts and such,  they are AVAILABLE, which keeps the P*nct*re fairy and his friend the Cable Gnome from attacking my bike.  A part on a bicycle will break in inverse proportion to the availability of a replacement part.

            This was borne out when I owned a BSA motorcycle.  I found it espedient to order TWO of any part that broke because if I bought ONE, the damned thing would be in use for 72 hours and would FAIL again, requiring 6 hours of wrenching, two hours of Cursing and three weeks of waiting for the part to be shipped in brine via Tea Clipper from Jolly Olde to my home in the Colonies!  wherer the replacement would be either the wrong size, the wrong voltage (usually electric parts, Lucas, Prince of Darkness!) or for an entirely different vehicle...Say a Triumph TR 3 automobile rather than a BSA 441 Victor motorcycle.  with a sincere apology and a stiff upper lip the part would be shipped BACK to england, replaced with ANOTHER incorrect part in another 3 weeks.   I spent about 3 weeks total riding my BSA 441 "Victor" in the 2 years that I owned it.

            Arrrrgh!  Always use parts you can find at any gas station, hardware store, plumbing supply or Head shop.  NEVER ever have anything that needs special parts only available at great expense from some remote part of the world!

            mark


            On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 2:46 PM, Tim Lupfer <tim.lupfer@...> wrote:
            Several companies use dot fluid including avid, hayes, formula and hope. It seems to work much better in sub-zero temperatures than mineral oil. Shimano hydraulic brakes tend to flake out around minus five or minus ten degrees. Having a spare hose on hand is always a good idea, but I think people expect them to fail more often than they actually do.


            On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 1:10 PM, Mark Garvey <lazybee45@...> wrote:

            yeah, it is usually mineral oil, DOT oil will ruin MOST (if not all!) hydraulic discs.  




            --
            Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring. –Desmond Tutu

          • Philip Chase
            ... put in a ... bikes ... OK I was willing to ignore this when only one person said it, but now I am hearing an echo of the long-brake-cables-are-a-problem
            Message 5 of 20 , Sep 6, 2008
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              --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Tim Lupfer" <tim.lupfer@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hey Mark,
              > I didn't mean to get you all worked up :) mostly I just wanted to
              put in a
              > good word for hydraulic brakes. they work well, especially with long
              bikes
              > with full length housing (i.e. big dummy)...

              OK I was willing to ignore this when only one person said it, but now
              I am hearing an echo of the long-brake-cables-are-a-problem theory. I
              respectfully disagree. As of yesterday my BD has logged 1050km while
              my Avid BB7 cable-actuated brakes have not caused any problems. Five
              months of riding on my FreeRad bike before the BD were also devoid of
              all brake cable problems.

              Brake cables do not require the same precision as indexed shifting. A
              little cable stretch or excessive bending can alter the path length to
              the rear derailleur and cause missed or delayed shifting. All the
              brake cable needs to do is pull far enough to squeeze the stationary
              part against the rotating part and have low enough friction to release
              when you do. If a break cable stretches how could ever distinguish
              that from pad wear?

              I am now having occasionally indexed shifting on problems on my BD as
              the LBS predicted, but it took about 800km. The brakes have been great.

              So will the long tail riders with cable-related rear brake problem
              please stand and be counted?

              Philip
            • Mark Garvey
              ... HAH!! Dude! No, not worked up at all! I hope that didn t sound like I was angry or something. All I was pointing out is that my idea is ultra
              Message 6 of 20 , Sep 6, 2008
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                On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 9:49 PM, Tim Lupfer <tim.lupfer@...> wrote:
                Hey Mark,
                I didn't mean to get you all worked up :)


                HAH!!  Dude!  No, not worked up at all!  I hope that didn't sound like I was angry or something.  All I was pointing out is that my idea is ultra reliability....or maybe that I am a firm believer in Murphy!  Personally, I look at EVERYTHING on this forum as a discussion among friends and not some sort of war or even fight. 

                hydraulic brakes are really quite good.  I think that they have great potential and reliability is pretty darn good from what I have seen.  Most motorcycles I have owned and all cars have them so they work and are reliable.  But just to bump my point....One day I was backing a semi into a dock when I noticed red fluid on the ground under the truck!  Ack!  a quick look revealed a burst Hydraulic line on the power steering!   I quick drove the few blocks to a repair shop and $100 and an hour later, I was in posession of a rebuilt line!   But a 3/4 inch line is too big for a bike!  HAH!

                Anyway, I am not disagreeing with your point of reliability.  I was pointing out that I plan for a part to fail and plan accordingly.  This goes with my philosophy of carrying a spare tube AND a patch kit!  That way the P*nct*re fairy does not bother me!  having replaceable parts means that you never have to replace them!

                mark
              • David Chase
                ... I m not 100% sure, but I think that shifting is twitchy enough that you can have temperature-dependent problems, depending on how the cables are routed and
                Message 7 of 20 , Sep 6, 2008
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                  On 2008-09-06, at 7:16 AM, Philip Chase wrote:
                  > I am now having occasionally indexed shifting on problems on my BD as
                  > the LBS predicted, but it took about 800km. The brakes have been
                  > great.
                  >
                  I'm not 100% sure, but I think that shifting is twitchy enough that
                  you can have temperature-dependent problems, depending on how the
                  cables are routed and what they (and your bike) are made of. The
                  difference between Al and Steel coefficent of expansion could be as
                  much as .000006/degree-F. For two meter cables, times an 80-degree
                  swing, gets you 2x80x.000006 = almost a millimeter!
                  We don't get an 80-degree swing all in one day, but July-to-January,
                  absolutely. Add to that, that indexed derailleur adjustment seems to
                  require sub-millimeter adjustments.

                  So there might be a "winter cable adjustment" and a "summer cable
                  adjustment".
                  > So will the long tail riders with cable-related rear brake problem
                  > please stand and be counted?
                  >
                  Well, there's ice. The way the FreeRadical disk brake is mounted,
                  there's a sort of natural valley in the cable routing, and that's
                  where the ice ends up. I've seriously considered trying to build a
                  "drain" -- perhaps it would be sufficient simply to cut the housing.

                  David
                • Mark Garvey
                  ... HEH! you just helped prove my point there Phil! I am a bit of a retro grouch I know. I don t LIKE Index shifting! I have friction shifters! if the
                  Message 8 of 20 , Sep 6, 2008
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                    On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 6:16 AM, Philip Chase <philipbchase@...> wrote:


                    I am now having occasionally indexed shifting on problems on my BD as
                    the LBS predicted, but it took about 800km.  The brakes have been great.



                    HEH!  you just helped prove my point there Phil!  I am a bit of a retro grouch I know.  I don't LIKE Index shifting!  I have friction shifters!  if the cable stretches, you never know until it won't shift into the lowest gear.  Ta Daaa!  My point is made, I have made my contribution!   the less complex a piece of equipment is, the less likely to fail!

                    I am trying to make up my mind whether to convert my old Schwinn Typhoon to an X and keep the 2 speed Bendix hub on it!  Talk about nice!  A low gear for starting and up hill, a higher one for flats....downhill is coast!  Very comfy fat tire cruiser ride!

                    mark
                  • Tim Lupfer
                    ... I didn t say claim any problem with cable brakes. In fact, I didn t even mention cable brakes in my post. I said that hydraulic brakes work especially
                    Message 9 of 20 , Sep 6, 2008
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                      On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 6:16 AM, Philip Chase <philipbchase@...> wrote:
                      > OK I was willing to ignore this when only one person said it, but now
                      > I am hearing an echo of the long-brake-cables-are-a-problem theory. I
                      > respectfully disagree. As of yesterday my BD has logged 1050km while
                      > my Avid BB7 cable-actuated brakes have not caused any problems. Five
                      > months of riding on my FreeRad bike before the BD were also devoid of
                      > all brake cable problems.

                      I didn't say claim any "problem" with cable brakes. In fact, I didn't
                      even mention cable brakes in my post. I said that hydraulic brakes
                      work especially well. I have used bb7 brakes on an xtracycle and they
                      stopped fine. However, the lever feel was spongy and they required
                      more frequent adjustments for cable stretch and pad wear. They also
                      needed a lot of winter maintenance to combat the sludge covered
                      Minnesota roads that I ride on.
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