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Re: Snapdeck Kidseat pics

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  • stoutag
    We used 12mm marine plywood for its waterproof glue (avoid delamination if an edge gets chipped then wetted. I pre-drilled a ton of holes on each junction so
    Message 1 of 17 , Jul 2, 2008
      We used 12mm marine plywood for its waterproof glue (avoid
      delamination if an edge gets chipped then wetted. I pre-drilled a ton
      of holes on each junction so as not to split the wood when screwing.
      I striped the mating edge with gorilla glue then screwed together. So
      all said and done the bonds should be quite strong.

      The order of assembly was seat back to wedge shaped rear facing
      support. Then I attached the sides drilling from the backsides of the
      seats, so that the upper portions of the seats were fully assembled.
      Then I lined them up on the base, clamped, pre-drilled, glued and
      screwed the uppers down to the base.

      Some tips on working with marine plywood, its has more plys for a
      given thickness, and consequently requires some extra care in working
      with it. We clamped a backer block for all holes drilled through the
      wood such as for the tee nuts, otherwise it will blow out the backside
      and make a mess of splinters. Also you have to be real careful
      sanding the edges or routing to avoid splintering it. I even had to
      saw away from the grain line and use very sharp finishing blades to
      keep from chipping it like mad.

      for the straps I had a local shop put metal grommets in webbing so
      that I count mount tee-nuts from the back sides for a threaded insert
      then use a fastener to mount the straps via the metal grommets. Its
      all VERY secure.

      The assembly and prep sanding of the seats took the better part of a
      day with my wife and I working largely together. The puttying,
      further sanding, staining, varnishing was done in a little bit of free
      time here and there over the following week. Exactly one week after
      starting, we were assembling it on the bike and putting the finishing
      touches on it.

      The pads are a cordura covers that my wife sewed with a combination of
      a closed cell foam backing and an open cell foam upper for
      breathability and shock absorbtion.

      I'll take some closeup pics of the visible construction details in the
      next day or so and post them up on our flickr account.

      Its amazing how many comments we've gotten in the several days we've
      been using it now. We've had many inspired parents come up to us
      asking us all about it, and now looking into xtracycle kits. I'm not
      sure what it is about this setup compared to a trailer to the average
      joe, but it sure seems to get people fired up. I know we really like it.

      --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "alexbknight" <Alexbknight@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Hi,
      > very nice!
      > More details on the construction please.
      > I see what you did with the P-clamps, this is to ensure a solid
      > connection between (un) snap deck and the V-racks. How did you join
      > the 12mm ply together, is this just glued if not what kind of
      > fasteners, it looks clean. Maybe just post another photo of a close
      > up of the inside of one of the seat would be enough.
      >
      > Thanks again for posting this, it gets me a little closer to my 2 kid
      > set up...
      >
      > Well done
      >
      > Alex
      >
      >
      > --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "stoutag" <thestouts@> wrote:
      > >
      > > We used some industrial stainless p-clamps from the bottom side and
      > > set tee nuts from the top of the deck.
      > >
      > > We used 12mm marine grade plywood, a lot of stainless steel
      > fasteners.
      > > The shoulder harnesses are from our chariot trailer and we sought
      > out
      > > the same brand of buckles so we can in a moment swap them back and
      > > forth between the bike and the trailer. The sunshades were my
      > wife's
      > > idea as we had one of them from our deuter kid comfort pack. She
      > had
      > > the idea of buying a second one and making sleeves for each seat so
      > > that they are height adjustable. It works very well at keeping the
      > > sun off their heads core bodies.
      > >
      > > They had a bit of a hard time napping on our first longer ride with
      > > it, I think mostly because there's so much more visual stimulus on
      > > this setup than the trailer, but successive rides they seem just as
      > > quick to konk out as they were in the trailer.
      > >
      > > I'm running 2.25" Schwalbe Marathon XR's at balloon bike pressures
      > > (~25-30psi) and it seems to smooth out the ride better than the
      > > chariot trailer's suspension did.
      > >
      >
    • Greg & Amy Hinson
      Count mine as another voice complimenting you on the handiwork and wanting to know more about the plans. I don t know if I am handy enough to pull it off, but
      Message 2 of 17 , Jul 5, 2008
        Count mine as another voice complimenting you on the handiwork and
        wanting to know more about the plans. I don't know if I am handy
        enough to pull it off, but what you did if the perfect answer to what
        we need!

        A quick question, I understand why the second seat has a different
        site shape, to allow the second kid's legs to not be too cramped, but
        why not cut the first seat to the same shape, to improve the symmetry
        of the design? (Not meaning this to sound critical at all, I am just
        curious if there is a reason the front seat needs to be shaped like this?)

        Greg
      • stoutag
        ... Good question. I originally had that shape on both seats, partially for symmetry but more because the seat sides provide the lion s share of the
        Message 3 of 17 , Jul 6, 2008
          --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Greg & Amy Hinson" <hinsons@...> wrote:
          >
          > Count mine as another voice complimenting you on the handiwork and
          > wanting to know more about the plans. I don't know if I am handy
          > enough to pull it off, but what you did if the perfect answer to what
          > we need!
          >
          > A quick question, I understand why the second seat has a different
          > site shape, to allow the second kid's legs to not be too cramped, but
          > why not cut the first seat to the same shape, to improve the symmetry
          > of the design? (Not meaning this to sound critical at all, I am just
          > curious if there is a reason the front seat needs to be shaped like this?)
          >
          > Greg
          >

          Good question. I originally had that shape on both seats, partially for symmetry but more
          because the seat sides provide the lion's share of the structural support for the back, so I
          wanted to keep them as long as possible while still providing leg room. I figured it was
          very likely I'd end up having to do the back angled sides in the rear, and I did think about
          doing likewise for the front, but just didn't bother in the end.

          All this is to say, yeah I suppose there's not really any good reason why the front couldn't
          follow the same shape as the rear.

          One thing I would probably change if I did it over again would be to recline the seat backs
          a touch further and make the upper seat sides come forward a touch further so that the
          kids would have a bit better helmet pocket for sleeping. That had been part of my aim in
          designing the shape the way I did, but due to a little overzealous use with a belt sander
          (whoops) the seat backs ended up being a touch more upright and the sides a bit
          shallower toward the top than I'd first intended.

          All said and done it still seems to be working very well. Kids are very comfy and do nap
          quite well in it.
        • stoutag
          Pics of the details. Here s a seat with padding, straps and sunshade installed. The sunshade is slid
          Message 4 of 17 , Jul 6, 2008
            Pics of the details.


            Here's a seat with padding, straps and sunshade installed. The sunshade is slid up a touch in its sleeve so you can see the upper portion of the adjustable shoulder straps. all straps mounted to the seat have tee-nuts from the back side for a very secure flush mount.


            Here's a closeup of the sleeves for the sunshade stays, and the adjustable shoulder strap setup.


            This is the seat with pads out so you can see how all straps are fastened.

          • Greg & Amy Hinson
            Again, this looks great. Recognizing my own inadequacies when it comes to power tools, I am still looking for similar, commercially available alternatives. Any
            Message 5 of 17 , Jul 8, 2008
              Again, this looks great. Recognizing my own inadequacies when it comes
              to power tools, I am still looking for similar, commercially available
              alternatives.

              Any comments about the products on the following website.
              Unfortunately, it's in Dutch, but if you click on the link on the left
              that looks like Products, you'll see their kid seats. I am wondering
              if these can be modified to fit the free radical (with or without the
              snap deck in place)?

              http://www.fietskinderzitje.nl/

              Thanks.
            • Courtney Power-Freeman
              I can do rough translations if need be on the Dutch site. Years ago I lived in The Netherlands and spoke Dutch pretty well. Let me know if you need help.
              Message 6 of 17 , Jul 8, 2008
                I can do rough translations if need be on the Dutch site. Years ago I
                lived in The Netherlands and spoke Dutch pretty well. Let me know if
                you need help.

                Courtney
              • Dave Lloyd
                Stoutag: Can you post some details about the rough dimensions? I could probably figure it out from there but since my X hasn t arrived yet I have zero ideas
                Message 7 of 17 , Aug 8, 2008
                  Stoutag:

                  Can you post some details about the rough dimensions? I could
                  probably figure it out from there but since my X hasn't arrived yet I
                  have zero ideas what the dimensions should be.

                  I have to say again that you've made quite the family truckster out of
                  your bike. I'm quite envious, especially with the rain cover you now
                  have.

                  --
                  --dlloyd
                • stoutag
                  I took measurements from a number of different strollers and accounted for the rough age range I wanted this to work for, and how those strollers are known to
                  Message 8 of 17 , Aug 8, 2008
                    I took measurements from a number of different strollers and accounted
                    for the rough age range I wanted this to work for, and how those
                    strollers are known to work for varying ages.

                    Consequently off the top of my head, I believe the dimensions worked
                    something like this.

                    Interior seat width ~11-11.5"
                    Interior seat back to where legs bend approximately 10"
                    Seat back height ~19" at the highest point

                    I think total length was something like 28-29" if I remember correctly.

                    After having used it for a month I don't think there's anythink I'd
                    really change as far as form factor goes. Currently I run the bigger
                    kid in the back, but once he has the maturity to consistantly keep his
                    feet on a set of bar ends and out of my pedal path, I'll scoot the
                    whole thing back about 2.5-3" and have him ride up front with bar ends
                    for foot rests.

                    Those dimensions were also intended to provide some room for the pads
                    we made which are 1" of open cell foam with 1/4" of close cell foam on
                    the bottom pads, and just the 1" thick open cell on the seat back.

                    I would in retrospect probably change the contour of the side panels
                    on the front seat to match the rear partially for asthetics and
                    partially to make it easier for front kiddo to splay legs if need be.

                    Hopefully that helps.

                    Someplace we did some plan drawings with dimensions with the intent of
                    taking a picture and posting for others to use. Perhaps I'll actually
                    dig those out after we get back from our trip and post them.

                    --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Lloyd" <dave@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Stoutag:
                    >
                    > Can you post some details about the rough dimensions? I could
                    > probably figure it out from there but since my X hasn't arrived yet I
                    > have zero ideas what the dimensions should be.
                    >
                    > I have to say again that you've made quite the family truckster out of
                    > your bike. I'm quite envious, especially with the rain cover you now
                    > have.
                    >
                    > --
                    > --dlloyd
                    >
                  • Dave Lloyd
                    ... This helps lots! It looks like the base is slightly wider at the seats, too. I m guessing that the narrow area is the normal snapdeck width and the seat is
                    Message 9 of 17 , Aug 8, 2008
                      On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 2:36 PM, stoutag <thestouts@...> wrote:
                      > I took measurements from a number of different strollers and accounted
                      > for the rough age range I wanted this to work for, and how those
                      > strollers are known to work for varying ages.
                      >
                      > Consequently off the top of my head, I believe the dimensions worked
                      > something like this.
                      >
                      > Interior seat width ~11-11.5"
                      > Interior seat back to where legs bend approximately 10"
                      > Seat back height ~19" at the highest point
                      >
                      > I think total length was something like 28-29" if I remember correctly.
                      >
                      > After having used it for a month I don't think there's anythink I'd
                      > really change as far as form factor goes. Currently I run the bigger
                      > kid in the back, but once he has the maturity to consistantly keep his
                      > feet on a set of bar ends and out of my pedal path, I'll scoot the
                      > whole thing back about 2.5-3" and have him ride up front with bar ends
                      > for foot rests.
                      >
                      > Those dimensions were also intended to provide some room for the pads
                      > we made which are 1" of open cell foam with 1/4" of close cell foam on
                      > the bottom pads, and just the 1" thick open cell on the seat back.
                      >
                      > I would in retrospect probably change the contour of the side panels
                      > on the front seat to match the rear partially for asthetics and
                      > partially to make it easier for front kiddo to splay legs if need be.
                      >
                      > Hopefully that helps.

                      This helps lots!

                      It looks like the base is slightly wider at the seats, too. I'm
                      guessing that the narrow area is the normal snapdeck width and the
                      seat is cantilevered out wider than the snapdeck is. Is this correct?
                      Anyone have the dimensions of the width of a snapdeck?

                      I've got the straps left over from a Britax Marathon car seat (not in
                      an accident, the base just got cracked due to the Samsonite gorillas
                      so we replaced it with a spare from my sister in law), so I'll use
                      those or fabricate something that looks like the harness in our old
                      Trek (rebranded Chariot) trailer.

                      > Someplace we did some plan drawings with dimensions with the intent of
                      > taking a picture and posting for others to use. Perhaps I'll actually
                      > dig those out after we get back from our trip and post them.

                      Ooo, that would be very helpful!

                      In fact, if you put the plans up for purchase as something like a PDF,
                      I'd buy 'em . I'm sure that others would, too.

                      I've been thinking about someone manufacturing this product and what
                      keeps circling around in my head is "product liability."
                      Unfortunately, someone might buy a product like this, use it
                      improperly (or through no fault of their own have a child using this
                      product be injured by a motorist) have a child injured. Normally sane
                      people who don't believe in frivolous litigation sue over their kids.
                      It's just the way folks are with their people. I could see one
                      incident like that being the end of a manufacturer of this product.

                      Anyway, selling the plans may well remove a large portion of the
                      liability and yet allow the more handy, or those who can find someone
                      who will fabricate this for them, to take advantage of an obviously
                      superior kid transport solution for the Xtracycle.



                      --
                      --dlloyd
                    • Tone
                      Dave Lloyd, I happen to have the dimensions of the snap-deck. :-) I say happen because you specifically mentioned the concept of consumers producing their
                      Message 10 of 17 , Aug 9, 2008

                        Dave Lloyd,

                                    I “happen” to have the dimensions of the snap-deck. J

                                    I say “happen” because you specifically mentioned the concept of consumers producing their own products while being forced to wait for companies to put their products on the market. In my own case, the reason I took fairly detailed dimensions of the snap deck is because I have been thinking of making my own snap-deck out of plastic “cutting-board” material or having a third party company make one for me. That way I would never have to worry again about a wooden snap deck deteriorating over time.

                                    Well, it turns out... Xtracycle has already been in the process of designing and testing their own version of a high-density polyethylene snap deck. When I ordered my Big Dummy I was speaking to them about a better snap deck and my idea of a plastic “cutting-board” material snap-deck. That is when they told me they already have prototypes made from polyethylene, which is basically “cutting-board” material.

                                    I felt a bit awkward when talking to the great folks at Xtracycle about it because I had already took precise measurements, drew up a diagram of the snap-deck, and contacted a custom cutting-board company, which could potentially make plastic snap-decks in several colors. During my conversation with the guys at Xtracycle I did not mention any of this because I felt a bit guilty. However, since then I have held off on pursuing the cutting-board company “snap-board” order, which could have possibly even been put in as a bulk order to maximize the amount of “snap-boards” produced from a single sheet of the same material to reduce waste and lowers costs for multiple orders.

                                    Hopefully Xtracycle will come through and they will have a high-performance low weight polyethylene snap deck (the cutting-board company version would not be as refined in design as the potential Xtracycle version) some time in the fall. If finances permit it, then I would certainly support Xtracycle and purchase their version from them rather than circumventing their product by having my own possibly lower priced and lower quality “snap-board” made.

                         

                                    With all that said, below is a link to an Adobe Acrobat file format diagram I laid out myself with almost all the accurate dimensions of the snap-deck. Unfortunately it does not include the placement of the bolts of the “snap-pieces”. I used “human anatomy” terminology in an attempt to convey the design of the snap deck to anyone NOT familiar with the product, since I had been considering having a third-party cutting board company produce it for me. I hope the terminology does seem too weird. The whole diagram should print out on a standard 8.5x11” Letter-sized sheet of paper and is scaled down so 1 centimeter in the diagram equals 1 inch on the snap-deck.

                        http://www.moon-shine.net/xs/SnapBoardDiagram.pdf

                         

                                    I hope this diagram can be helpful to everyone on this list in their creative D.I.Y. Xtracycle accessories. It is truly awesome to see the ingenuity my fellow Xtracyclist generate.

                                    And again I hope I have not offended the fine folks at Xtracycle because I initiated discussions with a third company to create my own plastic “snap-board.” I definitely look forward to any similar product they might release. I just REALLY hope it is in the near future and I have the finances for it at the time. I really do support Xtracycle and what they have always stood for.

                        Ride safe,

                        _TONE_

                         

                         

                      • fredpinto.geo
                        I m drawing plans for building the seats based on your pictures using a image analysis software. The only thing I couldn t figure out yet on my own (due to
                        Message 11 of 17 , Aug 12, 2008
                          I'm drawing plans for building the seats based on your pictures using
                          a image analysis software. The only thing I couldn't figure out yet on
                          my own (due to lack of a picture from an appropriate angle) is the
                          shape of the horizontal piece (the one replacing the snapdeck); I can
                          assume where the cuts for fitting the legs, when bent, but not sure if
                          this would be the perfect shape based on your project.
                          I also noticed that the front seat is considerably shorter (in terms
                          of back-to-where-the-legs-bent); does it really fit your big guy, or
                          his legs drop too deep if he seats there. I compared it to Mark Kohr's
                          versions and his seem more balanced (or evenly distributed) along the
                          longer axis of the pseudo-snapdeck.
                          Anyways, do you think you could post a picture of the entire seat from
                          above (holding the camera on top of the xtracycle)? If so, I could
                          finish up measuring, add this value, and try to post here a compiled
                          plan with drawings to help others. Also I noticed that the angle of
                          the back of the seat to the snapdeck is 110 degrees; since you
                          mentioned it could be somewhat more confortable for the kids to take a
                          nap, maybe I'll increase it to 115.
                          Thanks a lot for being so inspiring.
                          Take care,
                          Fred

                          --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "stoutag" <thestouts@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > I took measurements from a number of different strollers and accounted
                          > for the rough age range I wanted this to work for, and how those
                          > strollers are known to work for varying ages.
                          >
                          > Consequently off the top of my head, I believe the dimensions worked
                          > something like this.
                          >
                          > Interior seat width ~11-11.5"
                          > Interior seat back to where legs bend approximately 10"
                          > Seat back height ~19" at the highest point
                          >
                          > I think total length was something like 28-29" if I remember correctly.
                          >
                          > After having used it for a month I don't think there's anythink I'd
                          > really change as far as form factor goes. Currently I run the bigger
                          > kid in the back, but once he has the maturity to consistantly keep his
                          > feet on a set of bar ends and out of my pedal path, I'll scoot the
                          > whole thing back about 2.5-3" and have him ride up front with bar ends
                          > for foot rests.
                          >
                          > Those dimensions were also intended to provide some room for the pads
                          > we made which are 1" of open cell foam with 1/4" of close cell foam on
                          > the bottom pads, and just the 1" thick open cell on the seat back.
                          >
                          > I would in retrospect probably change the contour of the side panels
                          > on the front seat to match the rear partially for asthetics and
                          > partially to make it easier for front kiddo to splay legs if need be.
                          >
                          > Hopefully that helps.
                          >
                          > Someplace we did some plan drawings with dimensions with the intent of
                          > taking a picture and posting for others to use. Perhaps I'll actually
                          > dig those out after we get back from our trip and post them.
                          >
                          > --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Lloyd" <dave@> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Stoutag:
                          > >
                          > > Can you post some details about the rough dimensions? I could
                          > > probably figure it out from there but since my X hasn't arrived yet I
                          > > have zero ideas what the dimensions should be.
                          > >
                          > > I have to say again that you've made quite the family truckster out of
                          > > your bike. I'm quite envious, especially with the rain cover you now
                          > > have.
                          > >
                          > > --
                          > > --dlloyd
                          > >
                          >
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