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Re: Snapdeck Kidseat pics

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  • alexbknight
    Hi, very nice! More details on the construction please. I see what you did with the P-clamps, this is to ensure a solid connection between (un) snap deck and
    Message 1 of 17 , Jul 2 4:48 AM
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      Hi,
      very nice!
      More details on the construction please.
      I see what you did with the P-clamps, this is to ensure a solid
      connection between (un) snap deck and the V-racks. How did you join
      the 12mm ply together, is this just glued if not what kind of
      fasteners, it looks clean. Maybe just post another photo of a close
      up of the inside of one of the seat would be enough.

      Thanks again for posting this, it gets me a little closer to my 2 kid
      set up...

      Well done

      Alex


      --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "stoutag" <thestouts@...> wrote:
      >
      > We used some industrial stainless p-clamps from the bottom side and
      > set tee nuts from the top of the deck.
      >
      > We used 12mm marine grade plywood, a lot of stainless steel
      fasteners.
      > The shoulder harnesses are from our chariot trailer and we sought
      out
      > the same brand of buckles so we can in a moment swap them back and
      > forth between the bike and the trailer. The sunshades were my
      wife's
      > idea as we had one of them from our deuter kid comfort pack. She
      had
      > the idea of buying a second one and making sleeves for each seat so
      > that they are height adjustable. It works very well at keeping the
      > sun off their heads core bodies.
      >
      > They had a bit of a hard time napping on our first longer ride with
      > it, I think mostly because there's so much more visual stimulus on
      > this setup than the trailer, but successive rides they seem just as
      > quick to konk out as they were in the trailer.
      >
      > I'm running 2.25" Schwalbe Marathon XR's at balloon bike pressures
      > (~25-30psi) and it seems to smooth out the ride better than the
      > chariot trailer's suspension did.
      >
    • stoutag
      We used 12mm marine plywood for its waterproof glue (avoid delamination if an edge gets chipped then wetted. I pre-drilled a ton of holes on each junction so
      Message 2 of 17 , Jul 2 7:13 AM
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        We used 12mm marine plywood for its waterproof glue (avoid
        delamination if an edge gets chipped then wetted. I pre-drilled a ton
        of holes on each junction so as not to split the wood when screwing.
        I striped the mating edge with gorilla glue then screwed together. So
        all said and done the bonds should be quite strong.

        The order of assembly was seat back to wedge shaped rear facing
        support. Then I attached the sides drilling from the backsides of the
        seats, so that the upper portions of the seats were fully assembled.
        Then I lined them up on the base, clamped, pre-drilled, glued and
        screwed the uppers down to the base.

        Some tips on working with marine plywood, its has more plys for a
        given thickness, and consequently requires some extra care in working
        with it. We clamped a backer block for all holes drilled through the
        wood such as for the tee nuts, otherwise it will blow out the backside
        and make a mess of splinters. Also you have to be real careful
        sanding the edges or routing to avoid splintering it. I even had to
        saw away from the grain line and use very sharp finishing blades to
        keep from chipping it like mad.

        for the straps I had a local shop put metal grommets in webbing so
        that I count mount tee-nuts from the back sides for a threaded insert
        then use a fastener to mount the straps via the metal grommets. Its
        all VERY secure.

        The assembly and prep sanding of the seats took the better part of a
        day with my wife and I working largely together. The puttying,
        further sanding, staining, varnishing was done in a little bit of free
        time here and there over the following week. Exactly one week after
        starting, we were assembling it on the bike and putting the finishing
        touches on it.

        The pads are a cordura covers that my wife sewed with a combination of
        a closed cell foam backing and an open cell foam upper for
        breathability and shock absorbtion.

        I'll take some closeup pics of the visible construction details in the
        next day or so and post them up on our flickr account.

        Its amazing how many comments we've gotten in the several days we've
        been using it now. We've had many inspired parents come up to us
        asking us all about it, and now looking into xtracycle kits. I'm not
        sure what it is about this setup compared to a trailer to the average
        joe, but it sure seems to get people fired up. I know we really like it.

        --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "alexbknight" <Alexbknight@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Hi,
        > very nice!
        > More details on the construction please.
        > I see what you did with the P-clamps, this is to ensure a solid
        > connection between (un) snap deck and the V-racks. How did you join
        > the 12mm ply together, is this just glued if not what kind of
        > fasteners, it looks clean. Maybe just post another photo of a close
        > up of the inside of one of the seat would be enough.
        >
        > Thanks again for posting this, it gets me a little closer to my 2 kid
        > set up...
        >
        > Well done
        >
        > Alex
        >
        >
        > --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "stoutag" <thestouts@> wrote:
        > >
        > > We used some industrial stainless p-clamps from the bottom side and
        > > set tee nuts from the top of the deck.
        > >
        > > We used 12mm marine grade plywood, a lot of stainless steel
        > fasteners.
        > > The shoulder harnesses are from our chariot trailer and we sought
        > out
        > > the same brand of buckles so we can in a moment swap them back and
        > > forth between the bike and the trailer. The sunshades were my
        > wife's
        > > idea as we had one of them from our deuter kid comfort pack. She
        > had
        > > the idea of buying a second one and making sleeves for each seat so
        > > that they are height adjustable. It works very well at keeping the
        > > sun off their heads core bodies.
        > >
        > > They had a bit of a hard time napping on our first longer ride with
        > > it, I think mostly because there's so much more visual stimulus on
        > > this setup than the trailer, but successive rides they seem just as
        > > quick to konk out as they were in the trailer.
        > >
        > > I'm running 2.25" Schwalbe Marathon XR's at balloon bike pressures
        > > (~25-30psi) and it seems to smooth out the ride better than the
        > > chariot trailer's suspension did.
        > >
        >
      • Greg & Amy Hinson
        Count mine as another voice complimenting you on the handiwork and wanting to know more about the plans. I don t know if I am handy enough to pull it off, but
        Message 3 of 17 , Jul 5 11:38 AM
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          Count mine as another voice complimenting you on the handiwork and
          wanting to know more about the plans. I don't know if I am handy
          enough to pull it off, but what you did if the perfect answer to what
          we need!

          A quick question, I understand why the second seat has a different
          site shape, to allow the second kid's legs to not be too cramped, but
          why not cut the first seat to the same shape, to improve the symmetry
          of the design? (Not meaning this to sound critical at all, I am just
          curious if there is a reason the front seat needs to be shaped like this?)

          Greg
        • stoutag
          ... Good question. I originally had that shape on both seats, partially for symmetry but more because the seat sides provide the lion s share of the
          Message 4 of 17 , Jul 6 8:36 AM
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            --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Greg & Amy Hinson" <hinsons@...> wrote:
            >
            > Count mine as another voice complimenting you on the handiwork and
            > wanting to know more about the plans. I don't know if I am handy
            > enough to pull it off, but what you did if the perfect answer to what
            > we need!
            >
            > A quick question, I understand why the second seat has a different
            > site shape, to allow the second kid's legs to not be too cramped, but
            > why not cut the first seat to the same shape, to improve the symmetry
            > of the design? (Not meaning this to sound critical at all, I am just
            > curious if there is a reason the front seat needs to be shaped like this?)
            >
            > Greg
            >

            Good question. I originally had that shape on both seats, partially for symmetry but more
            because the seat sides provide the lion's share of the structural support for the back, so I
            wanted to keep them as long as possible while still providing leg room. I figured it was
            very likely I'd end up having to do the back angled sides in the rear, and I did think about
            doing likewise for the front, but just didn't bother in the end.

            All this is to say, yeah I suppose there's not really any good reason why the front couldn't
            follow the same shape as the rear.

            One thing I would probably change if I did it over again would be to recline the seat backs
            a touch further and make the upper seat sides come forward a touch further so that the
            kids would have a bit better helmet pocket for sleeping. That had been part of my aim in
            designing the shape the way I did, but due to a little overzealous use with a belt sander
            (whoops) the seat backs ended up being a touch more upright and the sides a bit
            shallower toward the top than I'd first intended.

            All said and done it still seems to be working very well. Kids are very comfy and do nap
            quite well in it.
          • stoutag
            Pics of the details. Here s a seat with padding, straps and sunshade installed. The sunshade is slid
            Message 5 of 17 , Jul 6 11:57 AM
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              Pics of the details.


              Here's a seat with padding, straps and sunshade installed. The sunshade is slid up a touch in its sleeve so you can see the upper portion of the adjustable shoulder straps. all straps mounted to the seat have tee-nuts from the back side for a very secure flush mount.


              Here's a closeup of the sleeves for the sunshade stays, and the adjustable shoulder strap setup.


              This is the seat with pads out so you can see how all straps are fastened.

            • Greg & Amy Hinson
              Again, this looks great. Recognizing my own inadequacies when it comes to power tools, I am still looking for similar, commercially available alternatives. Any
              Message 6 of 17 , Jul 8 8:31 PM
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                Again, this looks great. Recognizing my own inadequacies when it comes
                to power tools, I am still looking for similar, commercially available
                alternatives.

                Any comments about the products on the following website.
                Unfortunately, it's in Dutch, but if you click on the link on the left
                that looks like Products, you'll see their kid seats. I am wondering
                if these can be modified to fit the free radical (with or without the
                snap deck in place)?

                http://www.fietskinderzitje.nl/

                Thanks.
              • Courtney Power-Freeman
                I can do rough translations if need be on the Dutch site. Years ago I lived in The Netherlands and spoke Dutch pretty well. Let me know if you need help.
                Message 7 of 17 , Jul 8 8:47 PM
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                  I can do rough translations if need be on the Dutch site. Years ago I
                  lived in The Netherlands and spoke Dutch pretty well. Let me know if
                  you need help.

                  Courtney
                • Dave Lloyd
                  Stoutag: Can you post some details about the rough dimensions? I could probably figure it out from there but since my X hasn t arrived yet I have zero ideas
                  Message 8 of 17 , Aug 8, 2008
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                    Stoutag:

                    Can you post some details about the rough dimensions? I could
                    probably figure it out from there but since my X hasn't arrived yet I
                    have zero ideas what the dimensions should be.

                    I have to say again that you've made quite the family truckster out of
                    your bike. I'm quite envious, especially with the rain cover you now
                    have.

                    --
                    --dlloyd
                  • stoutag
                    I took measurements from a number of different strollers and accounted for the rough age range I wanted this to work for, and how those strollers are known to
                    Message 9 of 17 , Aug 8, 2008
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                      I took measurements from a number of different strollers and accounted
                      for the rough age range I wanted this to work for, and how those
                      strollers are known to work for varying ages.

                      Consequently off the top of my head, I believe the dimensions worked
                      something like this.

                      Interior seat width ~11-11.5"
                      Interior seat back to where legs bend approximately 10"
                      Seat back height ~19" at the highest point

                      I think total length was something like 28-29" if I remember correctly.

                      After having used it for a month I don't think there's anythink I'd
                      really change as far as form factor goes. Currently I run the bigger
                      kid in the back, but once he has the maturity to consistantly keep his
                      feet on a set of bar ends and out of my pedal path, I'll scoot the
                      whole thing back about 2.5-3" and have him ride up front with bar ends
                      for foot rests.

                      Those dimensions were also intended to provide some room for the pads
                      we made which are 1" of open cell foam with 1/4" of close cell foam on
                      the bottom pads, and just the 1" thick open cell on the seat back.

                      I would in retrospect probably change the contour of the side panels
                      on the front seat to match the rear partially for asthetics and
                      partially to make it easier for front kiddo to splay legs if need be.

                      Hopefully that helps.

                      Someplace we did some plan drawings with dimensions with the intent of
                      taking a picture and posting for others to use. Perhaps I'll actually
                      dig those out after we get back from our trip and post them.

                      --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Lloyd" <dave@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Stoutag:
                      >
                      > Can you post some details about the rough dimensions? I could
                      > probably figure it out from there but since my X hasn't arrived yet I
                      > have zero ideas what the dimensions should be.
                      >
                      > I have to say again that you've made quite the family truckster out of
                      > your bike. I'm quite envious, especially with the rain cover you now
                      > have.
                      >
                      > --
                      > --dlloyd
                      >
                    • Dave Lloyd
                      ... This helps lots! It looks like the base is slightly wider at the seats, too. I m guessing that the narrow area is the normal snapdeck width and the seat is
                      Message 10 of 17 , Aug 8, 2008
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                        On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 2:36 PM, stoutag <thestouts@...> wrote:
                        > I took measurements from a number of different strollers and accounted
                        > for the rough age range I wanted this to work for, and how those
                        > strollers are known to work for varying ages.
                        >
                        > Consequently off the top of my head, I believe the dimensions worked
                        > something like this.
                        >
                        > Interior seat width ~11-11.5"
                        > Interior seat back to where legs bend approximately 10"
                        > Seat back height ~19" at the highest point
                        >
                        > I think total length was something like 28-29" if I remember correctly.
                        >
                        > After having used it for a month I don't think there's anythink I'd
                        > really change as far as form factor goes. Currently I run the bigger
                        > kid in the back, but once he has the maturity to consistantly keep his
                        > feet on a set of bar ends and out of my pedal path, I'll scoot the
                        > whole thing back about 2.5-3" and have him ride up front with bar ends
                        > for foot rests.
                        >
                        > Those dimensions were also intended to provide some room for the pads
                        > we made which are 1" of open cell foam with 1/4" of close cell foam on
                        > the bottom pads, and just the 1" thick open cell on the seat back.
                        >
                        > I would in retrospect probably change the contour of the side panels
                        > on the front seat to match the rear partially for asthetics and
                        > partially to make it easier for front kiddo to splay legs if need be.
                        >
                        > Hopefully that helps.

                        This helps lots!

                        It looks like the base is slightly wider at the seats, too. I'm
                        guessing that the narrow area is the normal snapdeck width and the
                        seat is cantilevered out wider than the snapdeck is. Is this correct?
                        Anyone have the dimensions of the width of a snapdeck?

                        I've got the straps left over from a Britax Marathon car seat (not in
                        an accident, the base just got cracked due to the Samsonite gorillas
                        so we replaced it with a spare from my sister in law), so I'll use
                        those or fabricate something that looks like the harness in our old
                        Trek (rebranded Chariot) trailer.

                        > Someplace we did some plan drawings with dimensions with the intent of
                        > taking a picture and posting for others to use. Perhaps I'll actually
                        > dig those out after we get back from our trip and post them.

                        Ooo, that would be very helpful!

                        In fact, if you put the plans up for purchase as something like a PDF,
                        I'd buy 'em . I'm sure that others would, too.

                        I've been thinking about someone manufacturing this product and what
                        keeps circling around in my head is "product liability."
                        Unfortunately, someone might buy a product like this, use it
                        improperly (or through no fault of their own have a child using this
                        product be injured by a motorist) have a child injured. Normally sane
                        people who don't believe in frivolous litigation sue over their kids.
                        It's just the way folks are with their people. I could see one
                        incident like that being the end of a manufacturer of this product.

                        Anyway, selling the plans may well remove a large portion of the
                        liability and yet allow the more handy, or those who can find someone
                        who will fabricate this for them, to take advantage of an obviously
                        superior kid transport solution for the Xtracycle.



                        --
                        --dlloyd
                      • Tone
                        Dave Lloyd, I happen to have the dimensions of the snap-deck. :-) I say happen because you specifically mentioned the concept of consumers producing their
                        Message 11 of 17 , Aug 9, 2008
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                          Dave Lloyd,

                                      I “happen” to have the dimensions of the snap-deck. J

                                      I say “happen” because you specifically mentioned the concept of consumers producing their own products while being forced to wait for companies to put their products on the market. In my own case, the reason I took fairly detailed dimensions of the snap deck is because I have been thinking of making my own snap-deck out of plastic “cutting-board” material or having a third party company make one for me. That way I would never have to worry again about a wooden snap deck deteriorating over time.

                                      Well, it turns out... Xtracycle has already been in the process of designing and testing their own version of a high-density polyethylene snap deck. When I ordered my Big Dummy I was speaking to them about a better snap deck and my idea of a plastic “cutting-board” material snap-deck. That is when they told me they already have prototypes made from polyethylene, which is basically “cutting-board” material.

                                      I felt a bit awkward when talking to the great folks at Xtracycle about it because I had already took precise measurements, drew up a diagram of the snap-deck, and contacted a custom cutting-board company, which could potentially make plastic snap-decks in several colors. During my conversation with the guys at Xtracycle I did not mention any of this because I felt a bit guilty. However, since then I have held off on pursuing the cutting-board company “snap-board” order, which could have possibly even been put in as a bulk order to maximize the amount of “snap-boards” produced from a single sheet of the same material to reduce waste and lowers costs for multiple orders.

                                      Hopefully Xtracycle will come through and they will have a high-performance low weight polyethylene snap deck (the cutting-board company version would not be as refined in design as the potential Xtracycle version) some time in the fall. If finances permit it, then I would certainly support Xtracycle and purchase their version from them rather than circumventing their product by having my own possibly lower priced and lower quality “snap-board” made.

                           

                                      With all that said, below is a link to an Adobe Acrobat file format diagram I laid out myself with almost all the accurate dimensions of the snap-deck. Unfortunately it does not include the placement of the bolts of the “snap-pieces”. I used “human anatomy” terminology in an attempt to convey the design of the snap deck to anyone NOT familiar with the product, since I had been considering having a third-party cutting board company produce it for me. I hope the terminology does seem too weird. The whole diagram should print out on a standard 8.5x11” Letter-sized sheet of paper and is scaled down so 1 centimeter in the diagram equals 1 inch on the snap-deck.

                          http://www.moon-shine.net/xs/SnapBoardDiagram.pdf

                           

                                      I hope this diagram can be helpful to everyone on this list in their creative D.I.Y. Xtracycle accessories. It is truly awesome to see the ingenuity my fellow Xtracyclist generate.

                                      And again I hope I have not offended the fine folks at Xtracycle because I initiated discussions with a third company to create my own plastic “snap-board.” I definitely look forward to any similar product they might release. I just REALLY hope it is in the near future and I have the finances for it at the time. I really do support Xtracycle and what they have always stood for.

                          Ride safe,

                          _TONE_

                           

                           

                        • fredpinto.geo
                          I m drawing plans for building the seats based on your pictures using a image analysis software. The only thing I couldn t figure out yet on my own (due to
                          Message 12 of 17 , Aug 12, 2008
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                            I'm drawing plans for building the seats based on your pictures using
                            a image analysis software. The only thing I couldn't figure out yet on
                            my own (due to lack of a picture from an appropriate angle) is the
                            shape of the horizontal piece (the one replacing the snapdeck); I can
                            assume where the cuts for fitting the legs, when bent, but not sure if
                            this would be the perfect shape based on your project.
                            I also noticed that the front seat is considerably shorter (in terms
                            of back-to-where-the-legs-bent); does it really fit your big guy, or
                            his legs drop too deep if he seats there. I compared it to Mark Kohr's
                            versions and his seem more balanced (or evenly distributed) along the
                            longer axis of the pseudo-snapdeck.
                            Anyways, do you think you could post a picture of the entire seat from
                            above (holding the camera on top of the xtracycle)? If so, I could
                            finish up measuring, add this value, and try to post here a compiled
                            plan with drawings to help others. Also I noticed that the angle of
                            the back of the seat to the snapdeck is 110 degrees; since you
                            mentioned it could be somewhat more confortable for the kids to take a
                            nap, maybe I'll increase it to 115.
                            Thanks a lot for being so inspiring.
                            Take care,
                            Fred

                            --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "stoutag" <thestouts@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > I took measurements from a number of different strollers and accounted
                            > for the rough age range I wanted this to work for, and how those
                            > strollers are known to work for varying ages.
                            >
                            > Consequently off the top of my head, I believe the dimensions worked
                            > something like this.
                            >
                            > Interior seat width ~11-11.5"
                            > Interior seat back to where legs bend approximately 10"
                            > Seat back height ~19" at the highest point
                            >
                            > I think total length was something like 28-29" if I remember correctly.
                            >
                            > After having used it for a month I don't think there's anythink I'd
                            > really change as far as form factor goes. Currently I run the bigger
                            > kid in the back, but once he has the maturity to consistantly keep his
                            > feet on a set of bar ends and out of my pedal path, I'll scoot the
                            > whole thing back about 2.5-3" and have him ride up front with bar ends
                            > for foot rests.
                            >
                            > Those dimensions were also intended to provide some room for the pads
                            > we made which are 1" of open cell foam with 1/4" of close cell foam on
                            > the bottom pads, and just the 1" thick open cell on the seat back.
                            >
                            > I would in retrospect probably change the contour of the side panels
                            > on the front seat to match the rear partially for asthetics and
                            > partially to make it easier for front kiddo to splay legs if need be.
                            >
                            > Hopefully that helps.
                            >
                            > Someplace we did some plan drawings with dimensions with the intent of
                            > taking a picture and posting for others to use. Perhaps I'll actually
                            > dig those out after we get back from our trip and post them.
                            >
                            > --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Lloyd" <dave@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Stoutag:
                            > >
                            > > Can you post some details about the rough dimensions? I could
                            > > probably figure it out from there but since my X hasn't arrived yet I
                            > > have zero ideas what the dimensions should be.
                            > >
                            > > I have to say again that you've made quite the family truckster out of
                            > > your bike. I'm quite envious, especially with the rain cover you now
                            > > have.
                            > >
                            > > --
                            > > --dlloyd
                            > >
                            >
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