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Re: Snapdeck Kidseat pics

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  • stoutag
    We used some industrial stainless p-clamps from the bottom side and set tee nuts from the top of the deck. We used 12mm marine grade plywood, a lot of
    Message 1 of 17 , May 31, 1940
      We used some industrial stainless p-clamps from the bottom side and
      set tee nuts from the top of the deck.

      We used 12mm marine grade plywood, a lot of stainless steel fasteners.
      The shoulder harnesses are from our chariot trailer and we sought out
      the same brand of buckles so we can in a moment swap them back and
      forth between the bike and the trailer. The sunshades were my wife's
      idea as we had one of them from our deuter kid comfort pack. She had
      the idea of buying a second one and making sleeves for each seat so
      that they are height adjustable. It works very well at keeping the
      sun off their heads core bodies.

      They had a bit of a hard time napping on our first longer ride with
      it, I think mostly because there's so much more visual stimulus on
      this setup than the trailer, but successive rides they seem just as
      quick to konk out as they were in the trailer.

      I'm running 2.25" Schwalbe Marathon XR's at balloon bike pressures
      (~25-30psi) and it seems to smooth out the ride better than the
      chariot trailer's suspension did.
    • Patrick Barber/Holly McGuire
      Beautifully done. I especially like the sunshade and potential for rain protection, since that seems to be the biggest disadvantage to the bike-seat when
      Message 2 of 17 , May 31, 1940
        Beautifully done. I especially like the sunshade and potential for
        rain protection, since that seems to be the biggest disadvantage to
        the bike-seat when compared to a trailer or bakfiets. The wood is
        gorgeous, as is the construction. Please do post the design, we'd love
        to take a stab at it ourselves when the time comes.

        Thanks!

        patrick


        --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "stoutag" <thestouts@...> wrote:
        >
        > We used some industrial stainless p-clamps from the bottom side and
        > set tee nuts from the top of the deck.
        >
        > We used 12mm marine grade plywood, a lot of stainless steel fasteners.
        > The shoulder harnesses are from our chariot trailer and we sought out
        > the same brand of buckles so we can in a moment swap them back and
        > forth between the bike and the trailer. The sunshades were my wife's
        > idea as we had one of them from our deuter kid comfort pack. She had
        > the idea of buying a second one and making sleeves for each seat so
        > that they are height adjustable. It works very well at keeping the
        > sun off their heads core bodies.
        >
        > They had a bit of a hard time napping on our first longer ride with
        > it, I think mostly because there's so much more visual stimulus on
        > this setup than the trailer, but successive rides they seem just as
        > quick to konk out as they were in the trailer.
        >
        > I'm running 2.25" Schwalbe Marathon XR's at balloon bike pressures
        > (~25-30psi) and it seems to smooth out the ride better than the
        > chariot trailer's suspension did.
        >
      • stoutag
        Will do. On a related note, I keep hoping that Xtracycle s centerstand will come available soon, but may have to pull out the welder before then if not soon.
        Message 3 of 17 , May 31, 1940
          Will do.

          On a related note, I keep hoping that Xtracycle's centerstand will
          come available soon, but may have to pull out the welder before then
          if not soon. But does anyone know of a beefier kickstand than the
          greenfield unit? That one does not inspire any confidence when the
          bike is loaded with groceries and two kids, and I can't justify
          spending almost $400 for Val's custom xtracycle centerstand.

          Yeah that was part of the decision making process for us in going this
          route over bakfiets, is that we had to have a way of building in
          weather protection. Everything else about the xtracycle suited our
          purposes better, so yeah we're psyched at how well and easily the
          shades tied into the design. I have some ideas to make the rain and
          cold weather canopy a pretty clean and easy to use design.

          --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Patrick Barber/Holly McGuire"
          <patrick@...> wrote:
          >
          > Beautifully done. I especially like the sunshade and potential for
          > rain protection, since that seems to be the biggest disadvantage to
          > the bike-seat when compared to a trailer or bakfiets. The wood is
          > gorgeous, as is the construction. Please do post the design, we'd love
          > to take a stab at it ourselves when the time comes.
          >
          > Thanks!
          >
          > patrick
          >
          >
          > --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "stoutag" <thestouts@> wrote:
          > >
          > > We used some industrial stainless p-clamps from the bottom side and
          > > set tee nuts from the top of the deck.
          > >
          > > We used 12mm marine grade plywood, a lot of stainless steel fasteners.
          > > The shoulder harnesses are from our chariot trailer and we sought out
          > > the same brand of buckles so we can in a moment swap them back and
          > > forth between the bike and the trailer. The sunshades were my wife's
          > > idea as we had one of them from our deuter kid comfort pack. She had
          > > the idea of buying a second one and making sleeves for each seat so
          > > that they are height adjustable. It works very well at keeping the
          > > sun off their heads core bodies.
          > >
          > > They had a bit of a hard time napping on our first longer ride with
          > > it, I think mostly because there's so much more visual stimulus on
          > > this setup than the trailer, but successive rides they seem just as
          > > quick to konk out as they were in the trailer.
          > >
          > > I'm running 2.25" Schwalbe Marathon XR's at balloon bike pressures
          > > (~25-30psi) and it seems to smooth out the ride better than the
          > > chariot trailer's suspension did.
          > >
          >
        • alexbknight
          Hi, very nice! More details on the construction please. I see what you did with the P-clamps, this is to ensure a solid connection between (un) snap deck and
          Message 4 of 17 , May 31, 1940
            Hi,
            very nice!
            More details on the construction please.
            I see what you did with the P-clamps, this is to ensure a solid
            connection between (un) snap deck and the V-racks. How did you join
            the 12mm ply together, is this just glued if not what kind of
            fasteners, it looks clean. Maybe just post another photo of a close
            up of the inside of one of the seat would be enough.

            Thanks again for posting this, it gets me a little closer to my 2 kid
            set up...

            Well done

            Alex


            --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "stoutag" <thestouts@...> wrote:
            >
            > We used some industrial stainless p-clamps from the bottom side and
            > set tee nuts from the top of the deck.
            >
            > We used 12mm marine grade plywood, a lot of stainless steel
            fasteners.
            > The shoulder harnesses are from our chariot trailer and we sought
            out
            > the same brand of buckles so we can in a moment swap them back and
            > forth between the bike and the trailer. The sunshades were my
            wife's
            > idea as we had one of them from our deuter kid comfort pack. She
            had
            > the idea of buying a second one and making sleeves for each seat so
            > that they are height adjustable. It works very well at keeping the
            > sun off their heads core bodies.
            >
            > They had a bit of a hard time napping on our first longer ride with
            > it, I think mostly because there's so much more visual stimulus on
            > this setup than the trailer, but successive rides they seem just as
            > quick to konk out as they were in the trailer.
            >
            > I'm running 2.25" Schwalbe Marathon XR's at balloon bike pressures
            > (~25-30psi) and it seems to smooth out the ride better than the
            > chariot trailer's suspension did.
            >
          • stoutag
            We used 12mm marine plywood for its waterproof glue (avoid delamination if an edge gets chipped then wetted. I pre-drilled a ton of holes on each junction so
            Message 5 of 17 , Jun 1, 1940
              We used 12mm marine plywood for its waterproof glue (avoid
              delamination if an edge gets chipped then wetted. I pre-drilled a ton
              of holes on each junction so as not to split the wood when screwing.
              I striped the mating edge with gorilla glue then screwed together. So
              all said and done the bonds should be quite strong.

              The order of assembly was seat back to wedge shaped rear facing
              support. Then I attached the sides drilling from the backsides of the
              seats, so that the upper portions of the seats were fully assembled.
              Then I lined them up on the base, clamped, pre-drilled, glued and
              screwed the uppers down to the base.

              Some tips on working with marine plywood, its has more plys for a
              given thickness, and consequently requires some extra care in working
              with it. We clamped a backer block for all holes drilled through the
              wood such as for the tee nuts, otherwise it will blow out the backside
              and make a mess of splinters. Also you have to be real careful
              sanding the edges or routing to avoid splintering it. I even had to
              saw away from the grain line and use very sharp finishing blades to
              keep from chipping it like mad.

              for the straps I had a local shop put metal grommets in webbing so
              that I count mount tee-nuts from the back sides for a threaded insert
              then use a fastener to mount the straps via the metal grommets. Its
              all VERY secure.

              The assembly and prep sanding of the seats took the better part of a
              day with my wife and I working largely together. The puttying,
              further sanding, staining, varnishing was done in a little bit of free
              time here and there over the following week. Exactly one week after
              starting, we were assembling it on the bike and putting the finishing
              touches on it.

              The pads are a cordura covers that my wife sewed with a combination of
              a closed cell foam backing and an open cell foam upper for
              breathability and shock absorbtion.

              I'll take some closeup pics of the visible construction details in the
              next day or so and post them up on our flickr account.

              Its amazing how many comments we've gotten in the several days we've
              been using it now. We've had many inspired parents come up to us
              asking us all about it, and now looking into xtracycle kits. I'm not
              sure what it is about this setup compared to a trailer to the average
              joe, but it sure seems to get people fired up. I know we really like it.

              --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "alexbknight" <Alexbknight@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Hi,
              > very nice!
              > More details on the construction please.
              > I see what you did with the P-clamps, this is to ensure a solid
              > connection between (un) snap deck and the V-racks. How did you join
              > the 12mm ply together, is this just glued if not what kind of
              > fasteners, it looks clean. Maybe just post another photo of a close
              > up of the inside of one of the seat would be enough.
              >
              > Thanks again for posting this, it gets me a little closer to my 2 kid
              > set up...
              >
              > Well done
              >
              > Alex
              >
              >
              > --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "stoutag" <thestouts@> wrote:
              > >
              > > We used some industrial stainless p-clamps from the bottom side and
              > > set tee nuts from the top of the deck.
              > >
              > > We used 12mm marine grade plywood, a lot of stainless steel
              > fasteners.
              > > The shoulder harnesses are from our chariot trailer and we sought
              > out
              > > the same brand of buckles so we can in a moment swap them back and
              > > forth between the bike and the trailer. The sunshades were my
              > wife's
              > > idea as we had one of them from our deuter kid comfort pack. She
              > had
              > > the idea of buying a second one and making sleeves for each seat so
              > > that they are height adjustable. It works very well at keeping the
              > > sun off their heads core bodies.
              > >
              > > They had a bit of a hard time napping on our first longer ride with
              > > it, I think mostly because there's so much more visual stimulus on
              > > this setup than the trailer, but successive rides they seem just as
              > > quick to konk out as they were in the trailer.
              > >
              > > I'm running 2.25" Schwalbe Marathon XR's at balloon bike pressures
              > > (~25-30psi) and it seems to smooth out the ride better than the
              > > chariot trailer's suspension did.
              > >
              >
            • Greg & Amy Hinson
              Count mine as another voice complimenting you on the handiwork and wanting to know more about the plans. I don t know if I am handy enough to pull it off, but
              Message 6 of 17 , Jun 4, 1940
                Count mine as another voice complimenting you on the handiwork and
                wanting to know more about the plans. I don't know if I am handy
                enough to pull it off, but what you did if the perfect answer to what
                we need!

                A quick question, I understand why the second seat has a different
                site shape, to allow the second kid's legs to not be too cramped, but
                why not cut the first seat to the same shape, to improve the symmetry
                of the design? (Not meaning this to sound critical at all, I am just
                curious if there is a reason the front seat needs to be shaped like this?)

                Greg
              • stoutag
                ... Good question. I originally had that shape on both seats, partially for symmetry but more because the seat sides provide the lion s share of the
                Message 7 of 17 , Jun 5, 1940
                  --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Greg & Amy Hinson" <hinsons@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Count mine as another voice complimenting you on the handiwork and
                  > wanting to know more about the plans. I don't know if I am handy
                  > enough to pull it off, but what you did if the perfect answer to what
                  > we need!
                  >
                  > A quick question, I understand why the second seat has a different
                  > site shape, to allow the second kid's legs to not be too cramped, but
                  > why not cut the first seat to the same shape, to improve the symmetry
                  > of the design? (Not meaning this to sound critical at all, I am just
                  > curious if there is a reason the front seat needs to be shaped like this?)
                  >
                  > Greg
                  >

                  Good question. I originally had that shape on both seats, partially for symmetry but more
                  because the seat sides provide the lion's share of the structural support for the back, so I
                  wanted to keep them as long as possible while still providing leg room. I figured it was
                  very likely I'd end up having to do the back angled sides in the rear, and I did think about
                  doing likewise for the front, but just didn't bother in the end.

                  All this is to say, yeah I suppose there's not really any good reason why the front couldn't
                  follow the same shape as the rear.

                  One thing I would probably change if I did it over again would be to recline the seat backs
                  a touch further and make the upper seat sides come forward a touch further so that the
                  kids would have a bit better helmet pocket for sleeping. That had been part of my aim in
                  designing the shape the way I did, but due to a little overzealous use with a belt sander
                  (whoops) the seat backs ended up being a touch more upright and the sides a bit
                  shallower toward the top than I'd first intended.

                  All said and done it still seems to be working very well. Kids are very comfy and do nap
                  quite well in it.
                • stoutag
                  Pics of the details. Here s a seat with padding, straps and sunshade installed. The sunshade is slid
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jun 5, 1940
                    Pics of the details.


                    Here's a seat with padding, straps and sunshade installed. The sunshade is slid up a touch in its sleeve so you can see the upper portion of the adjustable shoulder straps. all straps mounted to the seat have tee-nuts from the back side for a very secure flush mount.


                    Here's a closeup of the sleeves for the sunshade stays, and the adjustable shoulder strap setup.


                    This is the seat with pads out so you can see how all straps are fastened.

                  • Greg & Amy Hinson
                    Again, this looks great. Recognizing my own inadequacies when it comes to power tools, I am still looking for similar, commercially available alternatives. Any
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jun 7, 1940
                      Again, this looks great. Recognizing my own inadequacies when it comes
                      to power tools, I am still looking for similar, commercially available
                      alternatives.

                      Any comments about the products on the following website.
                      Unfortunately, it's in Dutch, but if you click on the link on the left
                      that looks like Products, you'll see their kid seats. I am wondering
                      if these can be modified to fit the free radical (with or without the
                      snap deck in place)?

                      http://www.fietskinderzitje.nl/

                      Thanks.
                    • Courtney Power-Freeman
                      I can do rough translations if need be on the Dutch site. Years ago I lived in The Netherlands and spoke Dutch pretty well. Let me know if you need help.
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jun 7, 1940
                        I can do rough translations if need be on the Dutch site. Years ago I
                        lived in The Netherlands and spoke Dutch pretty well. Let me know if
                        you need help.

                        Courtney
                      • Dave Lloyd
                        Stoutag: Can you post some details about the rough dimensions? I could probably figure it out from there but since my X hasn t arrived yet I have zero ideas
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jul 8, 1940
                          Stoutag:

                          Can you post some details about the rough dimensions? I could
                          probably figure it out from there but since my X hasn't arrived yet I
                          have zero ideas what the dimensions should be.

                          I have to say again that you've made quite the family truckster out of
                          your bike. I'm quite envious, especially with the rain cover you now
                          have.

                          --
                          --dlloyd
                        • stoutag
                          I took measurements from a number of different strollers and accounted for the rough age range I wanted this to work for, and how those strollers are known to
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jul 8, 1940
                            I took measurements from a number of different strollers and accounted
                            for the rough age range I wanted this to work for, and how those
                            strollers are known to work for varying ages.

                            Consequently off the top of my head, I believe the dimensions worked
                            something like this.

                            Interior seat width ~11-11.5"
                            Interior seat back to where legs bend approximately 10"
                            Seat back height ~19" at the highest point

                            I think total length was something like 28-29" if I remember correctly.

                            After having used it for a month I don't think there's anythink I'd
                            really change as far as form factor goes. Currently I run the bigger
                            kid in the back, but once he has the maturity to consistantly keep his
                            feet on a set of bar ends and out of my pedal path, I'll scoot the
                            whole thing back about 2.5-3" and have him ride up front with bar ends
                            for foot rests.

                            Those dimensions were also intended to provide some room for the pads
                            we made which are 1" of open cell foam with 1/4" of close cell foam on
                            the bottom pads, and just the 1" thick open cell on the seat back.

                            I would in retrospect probably change the contour of the side panels
                            on the front seat to match the rear partially for asthetics and
                            partially to make it easier for front kiddo to splay legs if need be.

                            Hopefully that helps.

                            Someplace we did some plan drawings with dimensions with the intent of
                            taking a picture and posting for others to use. Perhaps I'll actually
                            dig those out after we get back from our trip and post them.

                            --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Lloyd" <dave@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Stoutag:
                            >
                            > Can you post some details about the rough dimensions? I could
                            > probably figure it out from there but since my X hasn't arrived yet I
                            > have zero ideas what the dimensions should be.
                            >
                            > I have to say again that you've made quite the family truckster out of
                            > your bike. I'm quite envious, especially with the rain cover you now
                            > have.
                            >
                            > --
                            > --dlloyd
                            >
                          • Dave Lloyd
                            ... This helps lots! It looks like the base is slightly wider at the seats, too. I m guessing that the narrow area is the normal snapdeck width and the seat is
                            Message 13 of 17 , Jul 8, 1940
                              On Fri, Aug 8, 2008 at 2:36 PM, stoutag <thestouts@...> wrote:
                              > I took measurements from a number of different strollers and accounted
                              > for the rough age range I wanted this to work for, and how those
                              > strollers are known to work for varying ages.
                              >
                              > Consequently off the top of my head, I believe the dimensions worked
                              > something like this.
                              >
                              > Interior seat width ~11-11.5"
                              > Interior seat back to where legs bend approximately 10"
                              > Seat back height ~19" at the highest point
                              >
                              > I think total length was something like 28-29" if I remember correctly.
                              >
                              > After having used it for a month I don't think there's anythink I'd
                              > really change as far as form factor goes. Currently I run the bigger
                              > kid in the back, but once he has the maturity to consistantly keep his
                              > feet on a set of bar ends and out of my pedal path, I'll scoot the
                              > whole thing back about 2.5-3" and have him ride up front with bar ends
                              > for foot rests.
                              >
                              > Those dimensions were also intended to provide some room for the pads
                              > we made which are 1" of open cell foam with 1/4" of close cell foam on
                              > the bottom pads, and just the 1" thick open cell on the seat back.
                              >
                              > I would in retrospect probably change the contour of the side panels
                              > on the front seat to match the rear partially for asthetics and
                              > partially to make it easier for front kiddo to splay legs if need be.
                              >
                              > Hopefully that helps.

                              This helps lots!

                              It looks like the base is slightly wider at the seats, too. I'm
                              guessing that the narrow area is the normal snapdeck width and the
                              seat is cantilevered out wider than the snapdeck is. Is this correct?
                              Anyone have the dimensions of the width of a snapdeck?

                              I've got the straps left over from a Britax Marathon car seat (not in
                              an accident, the base just got cracked due to the Samsonite gorillas
                              so we replaced it with a spare from my sister in law), so I'll use
                              those or fabricate something that looks like the harness in our old
                              Trek (rebranded Chariot) trailer.

                              > Someplace we did some plan drawings with dimensions with the intent of
                              > taking a picture and posting for others to use. Perhaps I'll actually
                              > dig those out after we get back from our trip and post them.

                              Ooo, that would be very helpful!

                              In fact, if you put the plans up for purchase as something like a PDF,
                              I'd buy 'em . I'm sure that others would, too.

                              I've been thinking about someone manufacturing this product and what
                              keeps circling around in my head is "product liability."
                              Unfortunately, someone might buy a product like this, use it
                              improperly (or through no fault of their own have a child using this
                              product be injured by a motorist) have a child injured. Normally sane
                              people who don't believe in frivolous litigation sue over their kids.
                              It's just the way folks are with their people. I could see one
                              incident like that being the end of a manufacturer of this product.

                              Anyway, selling the plans may well remove a large portion of the
                              liability and yet allow the more handy, or those who can find someone
                              who will fabricate this for them, to take advantage of an obviously
                              superior kid transport solution for the Xtracycle.



                              --
                              --dlloyd
                            • Tone
                              Dave Lloyd, I happen to have the dimensions of the snap-deck. :-) I say happen because you specifically mentioned the concept of consumers producing their
                              Message 14 of 17 , Jul 9, 1940

                                Dave Lloyd,

                                            I “happen” to have the dimensions of the snap-deck. J

                                            I say “happen” because you specifically mentioned the concept of consumers producing their own products while being forced to wait for companies to put their products on the market. In my own case, the reason I took fairly detailed dimensions of the snap deck is because I have been thinking of making my own snap-deck out of plastic “cutting-board” material or having a third party company make one for me. That way I would never have to worry again about a wooden snap deck deteriorating over time.

                                            Well, it turns out... Xtracycle has already been in the process of designing and testing their own version of a high-density polyethylene snap deck. When I ordered my Big Dummy I was speaking to them about a better snap deck and my idea of a plastic “cutting-board” material snap-deck. That is when they told me they already have prototypes made from polyethylene, which is basically “cutting-board” material.

                                            I felt a bit awkward when talking to the great folks at Xtracycle about it because I had already took precise measurements, drew up a diagram of the snap-deck, and contacted a custom cutting-board company, which could potentially make plastic snap-decks in several colors. During my conversation with the guys at Xtracycle I did not mention any of this because I felt a bit guilty. However, since then I have held off on pursuing the cutting-board company “snap-board” order, which could have possibly even been put in as a bulk order to maximize the amount of “snap-boards” produced from a single sheet of the same material to reduce waste and lowers costs for multiple orders.

                                            Hopefully Xtracycle will come through and they will have a high-performance low weight polyethylene snap deck (the cutting-board company version would not be as refined in design as the potential Xtracycle version) some time in the fall. If finances permit it, then I would certainly support Xtracycle and purchase their version from them rather than circumventing their product by having my own possibly lower priced and lower quality “snap-board” made.

                                 

                                            With all that said, below is a link to an Adobe Acrobat file format diagram I laid out myself with almost all the accurate dimensions of the snap-deck. Unfortunately it does not include the placement of the bolts of the “snap-pieces”. I used “human anatomy” terminology in an attempt to convey the design of the snap deck to anyone NOT familiar with the product, since I had been considering having a third-party cutting board company produce it for me. I hope the terminology does seem too weird. The whole diagram should print out on a standard 8.5x11” Letter-sized sheet of paper and is scaled down so 1 centimeter in the diagram equals 1 inch on the snap-deck.

                                http://www.moon-shine.net/xs/SnapBoardDiagram.pdf

                                 

                                            I hope this diagram can be helpful to everyone on this list in their creative D.I.Y. Xtracycle accessories. It is truly awesome to see the ingenuity my fellow Xtracyclist generate.

                                            And again I hope I have not offended the fine folks at Xtracycle because I initiated discussions with a third company to create my own plastic “snap-board.” I definitely look forward to any similar product they might release. I just REALLY hope it is in the near future and I have the finances for it at the time. I really do support Xtracycle and what they have always stood for.

                                Ride safe,

                                _TONE_

                                 

                                 

                              • fredpinto.geo
                                I m drawing plans for building the seats based on your pictures using a image analysis software. The only thing I couldn t figure out yet on my own (due to
                                Message 15 of 17 , Jul 11, 1940
                                  I'm drawing plans for building the seats based on your pictures using
                                  a image analysis software. The only thing I couldn't figure out yet on
                                  my own (due to lack of a picture from an appropriate angle) is the
                                  shape of the horizontal piece (the one replacing the snapdeck); I can
                                  assume where the cuts for fitting the legs, when bent, but not sure if
                                  this would be the perfect shape based on your project.
                                  I also noticed that the front seat is considerably shorter (in terms
                                  of back-to-where-the-legs-bent); does it really fit your big guy, or
                                  his legs drop too deep if he seats there. I compared it to Mark Kohr's
                                  versions and his seem more balanced (or evenly distributed) along the
                                  longer axis of the pseudo-snapdeck.
                                  Anyways, do you think you could post a picture of the entire seat from
                                  above (holding the camera on top of the xtracycle)? If so, I could
                                  finish up measuring, add this value, and try to post here a compiled
                                  plan with drawings to help others. Also I noticed that the angle of
                                  the back of the seat to the snapdeck is 110 degrees; since you
                                  mentioned it could be somewhat more confortable for the kids to take a
                                  nap, maybe I'll increase it to 115.
                                  Thanks a lot for being so inspiring.
                                  Take care,
                                  Fred

                                  --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "stoutag" <thestouts@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I took measurements from a number of different strollers and accounted
                                  > for the rough age range I wanted this to work for, and how those
                                  > strollers are known to work for varying ages.
                                  >
                                  > Consequently off the top of my head, I believe the dimensions worked
                                  > something like this.
                                  >
                                  > Interior seat width ~11-11.5"
                                  > Interior seat back to where legs bend approximately 10"
                                  > Seat back height ~19" at the highest point
                                  >
                                  > I think total length was something like 28-29" if I remember correctly.
                                  >
                                  > After having used it for a month I don't think there's anythink I'd
                                  > really change as far as form factor goes. Currently I run the bigger
                                  > kid in the back, but once he has the maturity to consistantly keep his
                                  > feet on a set of bar ends and out of my pedal path, I'll scoot the
                                  > whole thing back about 2.5-3" and have him ride up front with bar ends
                                  > for foot rests.
                                  >
                                  > Those dimensions were also intended to provide some room for the pads
                                  > we made which are 1" of open cell foam with 1/4" of close cell foam on
                                  > the bottom pads, and just the 1" thick open cell on the seat back.
                                  >
                                  > I would in retrospect probably change the contour of the side panels
                                  > on the front seat to match the rear partially for asthetics and
                                  > partially to make it easier for front kiddo to splay legs if need be.
                                  >
                                  > Hopefully that helps.
                                  >
                                  > Someplace we did some plan drawings with dimensions with the intent of
                                  > taking a picture and posting for others to use. Perhaps I'll actually
                                  > dig those out after we get back from our trip and post them.
                                  >
                                  > --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Lloyd" <dave@> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Stoutag:
                                  > >
                                  > > Can you post some details about the rough dimensions? I could
                                  > > probably figure it out from there but since my X hasn't arrived yet I
                                  > > have zero ideas what the dimensions should be.
                                  > >
                                  > > I have to say again that you've made quite the family truckster out of
                                  > > your bike. I'm quite envious, especially with the rain cover you now
                                  > > have.
                                  > >
                                  > > --
                                  > > --dlloyd
                                  > >
                                  >
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