Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

New Xtracycle experience

Expand Messages
  • alexbknight
    Hi, I have recently completed my xtracycle and am very happy with it. I took an Orange P7 mountain bike frame with slick tyres and extended. Some exeperiences
    Message 1 of 13 , Jul 19, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      Hi,
      I have recently completed my xtracycle and am very happy with it.
      I took an Orange P7 mountain bike frame with slick tyres and
      extended.
      Some exeperiences to verify though:

      There is no bridge to mount the x on so I had to use two mounting
      plates instead of one. This seems to affect the stand over height
      and head angles quite substantially (1 cm or so difference). A
      shaped ( machined alloy) bracket for this point to bring the X back
      down again would add cost but I would appreciate it.

      The angle change seems to give me "oversteer", i.e. the bike would
      tend to continue steering more sharply given the choice.

      I tried my wife and child (2 years) on the snap deck, and have to
      say I had a fair amount of "whip" in the ride at low speed. Is this
      the Xtracycle configuration or my back wheel being too weedy? With
      the baby in a frame mounted seat and no wife no problem. Same whip
      experienced today carrying my dry cleaning (20 kg) home tonight.

      Again, very happy X user, and here in Switzerland it is definitely
      turning heads...
    • Derek
      COol! Photos????
      Message 2 of 13 , Jul 19, 2006
      • 0 Attachment
        COol! Photos????





        --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "alexbknight" <Alexbknight@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Hi,
        > I have recently completed my xtracycle and am very happy with it.
        > I took an Orange P7 mountain bike frame with slick tyres and
        > extended.
        > Some exeperiences to verify though:
        >
        > There is no bridge to mount the x on so I had to use two mounting
        > plates instead of one. This seems to affect the stand over height
        > and head angles quite substantially (1 cm or so difference). A
        > shaped ( machined alloy) bracket for this point to bring the X back
        > down again would add cost but I would appreciate it.
        >
        > The angle change seems to give me "oversteer", i.e. the bike would
        > tend to continue steering more sharply given the choice.
        >
        > I tried my wife and child (2 years) on the snap deck, and have to
        > say I had a fair amount of "whip" in the ride at low speed. Is this
        > the Xtracycle configuration or my back wheel being too weedy? With
        > the baby in a frame mounted seat and no wife no problem. Same whip
        > experienced today carrying my dry cleaning (20 kg) home tonight.
        >
        > Again, very happy X user, and here in Switzerland it is definitely
        > turning heads...
        >
      • mhr109
        Great! That makes at least two of us in Switzerland. (I m in Chur, where riding through town today with plywood and 2.5 m long 2x4 really got some looks. And
        Message 3 of 13 , Jul 20, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          Great! That makes at least two of us in Switzerland. (I'm in Chur,
          where riding through town today with plywood and 2.5 m long 2x4 really
          got some looks. And I can confirm that there's some whip with a load
          on, but I usually find that when it gets excessive it's because the
          rear tire is low on air or spokes are loose. I have 700 roadbike
          wheels -- set up on a kona dr. dew disc, wheels are handbuilt so
          pretty tough and sturdy.

          Could be too that you had too much weight behind the rear axle, plus
          if you're angles have changed, it may take a bit to get used to the
          bike again-- took me ages before I could ride no-hands with my X bcs
          of the steering change from the weight/length change. (And I ride a
          uniclyle too, so it's not a balance problem...)

          Cheers,

          Michael

          --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "alexbknight" <Alexbknight@...>
          wrote:
          >
          > Hi,
          > I have recently completed my xtracycle and am very happy with it.
          > I took an Orange P7 mountain bike frame with slick tyres and
          > extended.
          > Some exeperiences to verify though:
          >
          > There is no bridge to mount the x on so I had to use two mounting
          > plates instead of one. This seems to affect the stand over height
          > and head angles quite substantially (1 cm or so difference). A
          > shaped ( machined alloy) bracket for this point to bring the X back
          > down again would add cost but I would appreciate it.
          >
          > The angle change seems to give me "oversteer", i.e. the bike would
          > tend to continue steering more sharply given the choice.
          >
          > I tried my wife and child (2 years) on the snap deck, and have to
          > say I had a fair amount of "whip" in the ride at low speed. Is this
          > the Xtracycle configuration or my back wheel being too weedy? With
          > the baby in a frame mounted seat and no wife no problem. Same whip
          > experienced today carrying my dry cleaning (20 kg) home tonight.
          >
          > Again, very happy X user, and here in Switzerland it is definitely
          > turning heads...
          >
        • todd fahrner
          ... With 2 mounting plates and an extra-long threaded bolt you have a lot of freedom in where the tongue sits, and hence some control over the geometry
          Message 4 of 13 , Jul 20, 2006
          • 0 Attachment
            On Jul 19, 2006, at 1:15 PM, alexbknight wrote:

            > There is no bridge to mount the x on so I had to use two mounting
            > plates instead of one. This seems to affect the stand over height
            > and head angles quite substantially (1 cm or so difference). A
            > shaped ( machined alloy) bracket for this point to bring the X back
            > down again would add cost but I would appreciate it.

            With 2 mounting plates and an extra-long threaded bolt you have a lot
            of freedom in where the tongue sits, and hence some control over the
            geometry changes. Here's one possibility: http://todd.cleverchimp.com/
            2fap/2fap.html

            > The angle change seems to give me "oversteer", i.e. the bike would
            > tend to continue steering more sharply given the choice.

            That is how I'd describe the feeling of too much trail for the load
            on the front wheel (see my 13 July post "Re: 26 in. wheels"). You can
            reduce trail by steepening the head angle (by any of several means)
            or increasing the rake of the fork. Unfortunately it's hard to change
            one thing at a time, so it's a matter of balancing compromises.
            Assuming you have a suspension-corrected (or suspension) fork, you
            could try substituting a rigid short fork to steepen the front end,
            and substituting a seatpost with extra offset/layback to keep your
            weight off your hands.
          • alexbknight
            Thanks a lot for the picture Todd, I stupidly didn t think of doing it like that... I ll give it a try, I think this should change the handling. The frame is
            Message 5 of 13 , Jul 20, 2006
            • 0 Attachment
              Thanks a lot for the picture Todd, I stupidly didn't think of doing
              it like that... I'll give it a try, I think this should change the
              handling.

              The frame is actually a non suspension geometry job, I was thinking
              of adding a fork to see what that gives, but I will try your change
              first. It rides ok, just need to be careful when steering slowly
              down very sharp switchbacks...


              --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, todd fahrner <fahrner@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > On Jul 19, 2006, at 1:15 PM, alexbknight wrote:
              >
              > > There is no bridge to mount the x on so I had to use two mounting
              > > plates instead of one. This seems to affect the stand over height
              > > and head angles quite substantially (1 cm or so difference). A
              > > shaped ( machined alloy) bracket for this point to bring the X
              back
              > > down again would add cost but I would appreciate it.
              >
              > With 2 mounting plates and an extra-long threaded bolt you have a
              lot
              > of freedom in where the tongue sits, and hence some control over
              the
              > geometry changes. Here's one possibility:
              http://todd.cleverchimp.com/
              > 2fap/2fap.html
              >
              > > The angle change seems to give me "oversteer", i.e. the bike would
              > > tend to continue steering more sharply given the choice.
              >
              > That is how I'd describe the feeling of too much trail for the
              load
              > on the front wheel (see my 13 July post "Re: 26 in. wheels"). You
              can
              > reduce trail by steepening the head angle (by any of several
              means)
              > or increasing the rake of the fork. Unfortunately it's hard to
              change
              > one thing at a time, so it's a matter of balancing compromises.
              > Assuming you have a suspension-corrected (or suspension) fork, you
              > could try substituting a rigid short fork to steepen the front
              end,
              > and substituting a seatpost with extra offset/layback to keep your
              > weight off your hands.
              >
            • Mike Leger
              A whippy comment; If your wife or child were behind the axle, your bike will be extremely whippy. Others have noted this also. With that said, my experience to
              Message 6 of 13 , Jul 20, 2006
              • 0 Attachment

                A whippy comment;

                 

                If your wife or child were behind the axle, your bike will be extremely whippy. Others have noted this also. With that said, my experience to date suggests that the weakest link with a loaded FreeRad is torsional flexion at the bottom bracket. Properly packed/placed full loads (100-150lbs, 70kilos) put a much higher amount of torsional stress on the BB than is seen with a regular bike. If you’re not sure what I mean, load up your FreeRad (with non-animate parts ;-) ) and take it for a spin. Get out of the saddle at some point in time during your ride, and pump the pedals as hard as you can. The whippy effects will be very pronounced if you ride with a square pedaling style, and/or don’t use clips/clipless pedals. The effects will also be exaggerated (possibly catastrophically) by a weak rear wheel.  

                 

                One hears of a theoretical longbike with integral FreeRad being produced by an unnamed manufacturer. One hopes that appropriately dealing with torsional flex would be high on the list of design features.

                 


                From: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com [mailto:rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of alexbknight
                Sent: Wednesday, July 19, 2006 3:15 PM
                To: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [rootsradicals] New Xtracycle experience

                 

                Hi,
                I have recently completed my xtracycle and am very happy with it.
                I took an Orange P7 mountain bike frame with slick tyres and
                extended.
                Some exeperiences to verify though:

                There is no bridge to mount the x on so I had to use two mounting
                plates instead of one. This seems to affect the stand over height
                and head angles quite substantially (1 cm or so difference). A
                shaped ( machined alloy) bracket for this point to bring the X back
                down again would add cost but I would appreciate it.

                The angle change seems to give me "oversteer", i.e. the bike would
                tend to continue steering more sharply given the choice.

                I tried my wife and child (2 years) on the snap deck, and have to
                say I had a fair amount of "whip" in the ride at low speed. Is this
                the Xtracycle configuration or my back wheel being too weedy? With
                the baby in a frame mounted seat and no wife no problem. Same whip
                experienced today carrying my dry cleaning (20 kg) home tonight.

                Again, very happy X user, and here in Switzerland it is definitely
                turning heads...

              • alexbknight
                Hi Todd, I ve been going through some of the old Forums on Xtracycle and you have a post with a handlebar mounted child seat on an electric bike. (2003!) This
                Message 7 of 13 , Aug 1, 2006
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi Todd,
                  I've been going through some of the old Forums on Xtracycle and you
                  have a post with a handlebar mounted child seat on an electric bike.
                  (2003!)
                  This is mounted high on the bars so doesn't seem to get in the way
                  of the legs.
                  Do you have a reference for this one?

                  Also, now that I start to have a bit of experience I am deciding how
                  to change the bike.
                  First place to start is obviously the wheels, but I am thinking that
                  the best bet might be to buy a heavy duty mountain bike (downhill),
                  that is one size too large for me, and then put on some back curved
                  handlebars that you are all on about?
                  What do you think, what would be your ideal if making a new X?

                  cheers

                  Alex


                  --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, todd fahrner <fahrner@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > On Jul 19, 2006, at 1:15 PM, alexbknight wrote:
                  >
                  > > There is no bridge to mount the x on so I had to use two mounting
                  > > plates instead of one. This seems to affect the stand over
                  height
                  > > and head angles quite substantially (1 cm or so difference). A
                  > > shaped ( machined alloy) bracket for this point to bring the X
                  back
                  > > down again would add cost but I would appreciate it.
                  >
                  > With 2 mounting plates and an extra-long threaded bolt you have a
                  lot
                  > of freedom in where the tongue sits, and hence some control over
                  the
                  > geometry changes. Here's one possibility:
                  http://todd.cleverchimp.com/
                  > 2fap/2fap.html
                  >
                  > > The angle change seems to give me "oversteer", i.e. the bike
                  would
                  > > tend to continue steering more sharply given the choice.
                  >
                  > That is how I'd describe the feeling of too much trail for the
                  load
                  > on the front wheel (see my 13 July post "Re: 26 in. wheels"). You
                  can
                  > reduce trail by steepening the head angle (by any of several
                  means)
                  > or increasing the rake of the fork. Unfortunately it's hard to
                  change
                  > one thing at a time, so it's a matter of balancing compromises.
                  > Assuming you have a suspension-corrected (or suspension) fork,
                  you
                  > could try substituting a rigid short fork to steepen the front
                  end,
                  > and substituting a seatpost with extra offset/layback to keep
                  your
                  > weight off your hands.
                  >
                • alexbknight
                  Got the PC working again, I ve popped a photo into the photo area, have a look, all comments are welcome... ... mounting ... height ... back ... would ... to
                  Message 8 of 13 , Aug 1, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Got the PC working again, I've popped a photo into the photo area,
                    have a look, all comments are welcome...

                    --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Derek" <derekjpearson@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > COol! Photos????
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "alexbknight" <Alexbknight@>
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Hi,
                    > > I have recently completed my xtracycle and am very happy with it.
                    > > I took an Orange P7 mountain bike frame with slick tyres and
                    > > extended.
                    > > Some exeperiences to verify though:
                    > >
                    > > There is no bridge to mount the x on so I had to use two
                    mounting
                    > > plates instead of one. This seems to affect the stand over
                    height
                    > > and head angles quite substantially (1 cm or so difference). A
                    > > shaped ( machined alloy) bracket for this point to bring the X
                    back
                    > > down again would add cost but I would appreciate it.
                    > >
                    > > The angle change seems to give me "oversteer", i.e. the bike
                    would
                    > > tend to continue steering more sharply given the choice.
                    > >
                    > > I tried my wife and child (2 years) on the snap deck, and have
                    to
                    > > say I had a fair amount of "whip" in the ride at low speed. Is
                    this
                    > > the Xtracycle configuration or my back wheel being too weedy?
                    With
                    > > the baby in a frame mounted seat and no wife no problem. Same
                    whip
                    > > experienced today carrying my dry cleaning (20 kg) home tonight.
                    > >
                    > > Again, very happy X user, and here in Switzerland it is
                    definitely
                    > > turning heads...
                    > >
                    >
                  • todd fahrner
                    ... That (http://todd.cleverchimp.com/bike/cp/scale.html) is a Bobike Mini seat, made by Dremefa of the Netherlands. They manufacture the Peapod as well, known
                    Message 9 of 13 , Aug 1, 2006
                    • 0 Attachment
                      On Aug 1, 2006, at 2:09 PM, alexbknight wrote:

                      > Hi Todd,
                      > I've been going through some of the old Forums on Xtracycle and you
                      > have a post with a handlebar mounted child seat on an electric bike.
                      > (2003!)
                      > This is mounted high on the bars so doesn't seem to get in the way
                      > of the legs.
                      > Do you have a reference for this one?

                      That (http://todd.cleverchimp.com/bike/cp/scale.html) is a Bobike
                      Mini seat, made by Dremefa of the Netherlands. They manufacture the
                      Peapod as well, known as the Bobike Maxi.

                      > Also, now that I start to have a bit of experience I am deciding how
                      > to change the bike.
                      > First place to start is obviously the wheels, but I am thinking that
                      > the best bet might be to buy a heavy duty mountain bike (downhill),
                      > that is one size too large for me, and then put on some back curved
                      > handlebars that you are all on about?
                      > What do you think, what would be your ideal if making a new X?

                      I'm working on a more complete description in the form of a blog post
                      on this subject, but for now I'd recommend (not a complete list):

                      - Surly Instigator frame with Surly 1x1 rigid fork, 170mm cranks,
                      Titec Hellbent layback seatpost, Schwalbe Big Apple tires, 2.35"

                      - Surly Karate Monkey frame/fork with 26" disk wheels, 170mm cranks,
                      Schwalbe Big Apple tires, 2.35"
                    • alexbknight
                      Hi, sorry to keep asking questions, but I am very interested in getting the right set-up. I actually already have the bobike mini seat on another bike, I just
                      Message 10 of 13 , Aug 14, 2006
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Hi,
                        sorry to keep asking questions, but I am very interested in getting
                        the right set-up.
                        I actually already have the bobike mini seat on another bike, I just
                        didn't recognise it. There is a big problem with this seat if you
                        want to do an bomb proof xtracycle, it needs to be pretty high up a
                        long handlebar stem, and won't fit around an aheadset spacer.
                        As most mountain bikes come with Aheadset now, and the top tubes are
                        not too long, how do you get around this? Do you build your own
                        bikes up with standard stems? I have thought about taking out the
                        spangled nut on a bike and fitting a standard stem as well as the
                        ahead stem, this works but obviously limits the adjustment of the
                        headset.
                        The surleys you mention also come with aheadset, so same problem...

                        Thanks

                        Alex


                        --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, todd fahrner <fahrner@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > On Aug 1, 2006, at 2:09 PM, alexbknight wrote:
                        >
                        > > Hi Todd,
                        > > I've been going through some of the old Forums on Xtracycle and
                        you
                        > > have a post with a handlebar mounted child seat on an electric
                        bike.
                        > > (2003!)
                        > > This is mounted high on the bars so doesn't seem to get in the
                        way
                        > > of the legs.
                        > > Do you have a reference for this one?
                        >
                        > That (http://todd.cleverchimp.com/bike/cp/scale.html) is a Bobike
                        > Mini seat, made by Dremefa of the Netherlands. They manufacture
                        the
                        > Peapod as well, known as the Bobike Maxi.
                        >
                        > > Also, now that I start to have a bit of experience I am deciding
                        how
                        > > to change the bike.
                        > > First place to start is obviously the wheels, but I am thinking
                        that
                        > > the best bet might be to buy a heavy duty mountain bike
                        (downhill),
                        > > that is one size too large for me, and then put on some back
                        curved
                        > > handlebars that you are all on about?
                        > > What do you think, what would be your ideal if making a new X?
                        >
                        > I'm working on a more complete description in the form of a blog
                        post
                        > on this subject, but for now I'd recommend (not a complete list):
                        >
                        > - Surly Instigator frame with Surly 1x1 rigid fork, 170mm cranks,
                        > Titec Hellbent layback seatpost, Schwalbe Big Apple tires, 2.35"
                        >
                        > - Surly Karate Monkey frame/fork with 26" disk wheels, 170mm
                        cranks,
                        > Schwalbe Big Apple tires, 2.35"
                        >
                      • John Speare
                        ... I like Todd s suggestions. I like Surlys and I like steel. I ve got my xtracycle hooked up to a Bridgestone MB-2 and it works ok, though I ve been thinking
                        Message 11 of 13 , Aug 14, 2006
                        • 0 Attachment
                          On 8/1/06, todd fahrner <fahrner@...> wrote:
                          >

                          > > What do you think, what would be your ideal if making a new X?
                          >
                          >
                          > I'm working on a more complete description in the form of a blog post
                          > on this subject, but for now I'd recommend (not a complete list):
                          >
                          > - Surly Instigator frame with Surly 1x1 rigid fork, 170mm cranks,
                          > Titec Hellbent layback seatpost, Schwalbe Big Apple tires, 2.35"
                          >
                          > - Surly Karate Monkey frame/fork with 26" disk wheels, 170mm cranks,
                          > Schwalbe Big Apple tires, 2.35"
                          >
                          >

                          I like Todd's suggestions. I like Surlys and I like steel. I've got my
                          xtracycle hooked up to a Bridgestone MB-2 and it works ok, though I've
                          been thinking lately I could do with out some of the flex.
                          Pictures/info here: http://www.johndogfood.com/x

                          I'm actually thinking of buying my first aluminum bike. I've been
                          looking at the Novara Buzz (not the "Big Buzz.") as an xtracycle bike.

                          It's got sensible gearing (lots of low -- with a pant protector
                          instead of a large front chainring), disc brakes, rigid forks,
                          sensible bars/riding position and good-enough components.

                          Out of the box, I think that would be a hard bike to beat for the
                          Xtracycle... i think it retails for about $600... they are not showing
                          up on the REI site anymore, which typically means all bikes are in
                          store and there are none left at the warehouse... good seller.


                          John "no relation to REI, just seems like a good fit" Speare


                          --
                          John Speare
                          Spokane, WA USA
                          http://www.johndogfood.com/john/bikes.html
                        • Asana Cycles
                          my Xtra convert is a 2000 Cdale F900, with Mavic Speedcitys (700c) with their MP3 program, Kenda Kwik 35c CX tyres, thudbuster seatpost, XT, and of course
                          Message 12 of 13 , Aug 14, 2006
                          • 0 Attachment
                            my Xtra convert is a 2000 Cdale F900, with Mavic Speedcitys (700c) with their MP3 program, Kenda Kwik 35c CX tyres, thudbuster seatpost, XT, and of course 203mm avid's.  Cdales have a super strong front susp fork.  its fast, and strong.  700c wheels fit in the MTB frame.
                            I've had the bike for 6yrs now, i've rode it like a ton of miles, pulled a BOB all over the place, lived with it for 1.5yrs playin "Joe Techno-yuppie-hobbo" livin out of doors and workin 5 days in a row with 9 days off.  i've worn out 2 wheelsets, and gone thru a bunch of chains, cogsets, tyres, etc.
                            its a combo that is hard to beat.
                            peace..d

                            John Speare <johnspeare@...> wrote:
                            On 8/1/06, todd fahrner <fahrner@pobox. com> wrote:
                            >

                            > > What do you think, what would be your ideal if making a new X?
                            >
                            >
                            > I'm working on a more complete description in the form of a blog post
                            > on this subject, but for now I'd recommend (not a complete list):
                            >
                            > - Surly Instigator frame with Surly 1x1 rigid fork, 170mm cranks,
                            > Titec Hellbent layback seatpost, Schwalbe Big Apple tires, 2.35"
                            >
                            > - Surly Karate Monkey frame/fork with 26" disk wheels, 170mm cranks,
                            > Schwalbe Big Apple tires, 2.35"
                            >
                            >

                            I like Todd's suggestions. I like Surlys and I like steel. I've got my
                            xtracycle hooked up to a Bridgestone MB-2 and it works ok, though I've
                            been thinking lately I could do with out some of the flex.
                            Pictures/info here: http://www.johndogf ood.com/x

                            I'm actually thinking of buying my first aluminum bike. I've been
                            looking at the Novara Buzz (not the "Big Buzz.") as an xtracycle bike.

                            It's got sensible gearing (lots of low -- with a pant protector
                            instead of a large front chainring), disc brakes, rigid forks,
                            sensible bars/riding position and good-enough components.

                            Out of the box, I think that would be a hard bike to beat for the
                            Xtracycle... i think it retails for about $600... they are not showing
                            up on the REI site anymore, which typically means all bikes are in
                            store and there are none left at the warehouse... good seller.

                            John "no relation to REI, just seems like a good fit" Speare

                            --
                            John Speare
                            Spokane, WA USA
                            http://www.johndogf ood.com/john/ bikes.html



                            "Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the human race." H.G. Wells


                            Do you Yahoo!?
                            Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

                          • fahrner@pobox.com
                            ... I successfully used the front seat on a tall stack of aheadset/threadless spacer rings (don t cut the steer tube). Not sure if I had a special mount, but I
                            Message 13 of 13 , Aug 14, 2006
                            • 0 Attachment
                              > I actually already have the bobike mini seat on another bike, I just
                              > didn't recognise it. There is a big problem with this seat if you
                              > want to do an bomb proof xtracycle, it needs to be pretty high up a
                              > long handlebar stem, and won't fit around an aheadset spacer.

                              I successfully used the front seat on a tall stack of aheadset/threadless
                              spacer rings (don't cut the steer tube). Not sure if I had a special
                              mount, but I don't think so. It was clearly meant to clamp a quill stem,
                              but the soft clamp material deformed nicely around the spacers. I had it
                              on my custom longtail bike briefly before son outgrew seat.
                            Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.