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Re: 26 in. wheels

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  • majorhahn
    Wow thanks for all that great information. So what is the best set up for the x assuming one is starting from scratch, where one wants light steering and a
    Message 1 of 21 , Jul 14 7:14 AM
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      Wow thanks for all that great information. So what is the best set
      up for the x assuming one is starting from scratch, where one wants
      light steering and a steel frame for mostly road and city riding ? -
      --


      In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, todd fahrner <fahrner@...> wrote:
      >
      > On Jul 13, 2006, at 11:20 AM, majorhahn wrote:
      >
      > >> I have heard of people running 26 in. wheels, like big apples,
      on 29
      > > in. mountain bikes which have been xtracycled with disc brakes.
      Has
      > > anybody actually done this and is it really a superior
      configuration
      > > to say running the same wheels on a 26 in. bike? Are there any
      > > downsides? Especially in the handling and feel, like do the
      pedals
      > > hit ground when cornering, does it affect acceleration?
      Thanks.
      > > Robert
      >
      > When you put an Xtracycle on a bike, one consequence is that more
      of
      > your weight will be borne on the front wheel than before. If the
      > steering felt light before, it will feel "more stable" (heavier)
      > after the conversion, sort of cruiser-ish. If it felt heavy to
      start
      > with (such as MTB steering tends to feel to road-bike riders
      anyway),
      > then the feeling can be really heavy or "floppy", with a tendency
      to
      > pull into turns like a chopper. Your mileage may vary. Many
      people
      > like the feel of their converted rides as much or more than the
      > original. I tend not to, because I like really light steering.
      >
      > In addition to changing the fore-aft weight distribution, there
      can
      > be geometry changes, notably head and seat tube angle changes,
      > depending on how your bike differs from the bike Xtracycle picked
      as
      > normative when they designed the thing. With 26" (mountain)
      bikes,
      > the changes are likely to be modest.
      >
      > However, when you put an Xtracycle on a frame designed for 700c
      > ('29"') wheels, the geometry changes are more substantial. The
      seat
      > and head angles are slackened, and the bottom bracket lowered.
      The
      > lower BB means it's easier to get a foot down, which is nice on a
      > laden bike -- you don't have to lean it when you stop and remain
      > seated. The slacker seat tube angle shifts more of your weight
      back
      > onto your butt and off your hands, which I also like for comfort,
      and
      > it also makes it easier to get a foot down (your hips are rotated
      > further back on the BB axis). But the slacker head angle
      exacerbates
      > the chopper steering feel by increasing "trail" (read about trail
      > here: http://tinyurl.com/oe6mq ; play with it here: http://
      > www.kogswell.com/geo.php ).
      >
      > So, I think it's a good idea to contrive to reduce the trail on
      > Xtracycles generally, and on 700C/29" Xtracycles in particular.
      One
      > way to do it is to use smaller wheels than the frame was designed
      > for. This is easy with disc brakes. Another consequence of
      smaller
      > wheels is that the BB is further lowered, so there's a risk of
      pedal
      > strike if you overdo it. You can raise the bike back up part of
      the
      > way by running extra fat tires. And this is a good thing with a
      non-
      > mechanically suspended cargo bike anyway: air is no-fuss
      lightweight
      > suspension, and the only kind at all for the load on an Xtracycle.
      >
      > Another approach is to start with a 26" bike designed for a
      > suspension fork, and use a rigid, short fork (e.g., Surly
      Instigator
      > with Surly 1x1 fork). This lowers the front end, effectively
      > steepening the head angle to lessen trail. Swap in a layback
      seatpost
      > and tall stem/bars to keep from pitching forward.
      >
    • Leifert, Jesse - BLS
      Steel single speed Mtn bike frame, rigid steel fork, suspension seat post, single speed drive train up front, 8 speed nexus rear hub out back...add some
      Message 2 of 21 , Jul 14 7:29 AM
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        Message
        Steel single speed Mtn bike frame, rigid steel fork, suspension seat post, single speed drive train up front, 8 speed nexus rear hub out back...add some lockable quick release skewers and you're good to go.
         
        An urban monster.
         
         
        -----Original Message-----
        From: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com [mailto:rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of majorhahn
        Sent: Friday, July 14, 2006 10:15 AM
        To: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [rootsradicals] Re: 26 in. wheels

        Wow thanks for all that great information. So what is the best set
        up for the x assuming one is starting from scratch, where one wants
        light steering and a steel frame for mostly road and city riding ? -
        --

        In rootsradicals@ yahoogroups. com, todd fahrner <fahrner@... > wrote:
        >
        > On Jul 13, 2006, at 11:20 AM, majorhahn wrote:
        >
        > >> I have heard of people running 26 in. wheels, like big apples,
        on 29
        > > in. mountain bikes which have been xtracycled with disc brakes.
        Has
        > > anybody actually done this and is it really a superior
        configuration
        > > to say running the same wheels on a 26 in. bike? Are there any
        > > downsides? Especially in the handling and feel, like do the
        pedals
        > > hit ground when cornering, does it affect acceleration?
        Thanks.
        > > Robert
        >
        > When you put an Xtracycle on a bike, one consequence is that more
        of
        > your weight will be borne on the front wheel than before. If the
        > steering felt light before, it will feel "more stable" (heavier)
        > after the conversion, sort of cruiser-ish. If it felt heavy to
        start
        > with (such as MTB steering tends to feel to road-bike riders
        anyway),
        > then the feeling can be really heavy or "floppy", with a tendency
        to
        > pull into turns like a chopper. Your mileage may vary. Many
        people
        > like the feel of their converted rides as much or more than the
        > original. I tend not to, because I like really light steering.
        >
        > In addition to changing the fore-aft weight distribution, there
        can
        > be geometry changes, notably head and seat tube angle changes,
        > depending on how your bike differs from the bike Xtracycle picked
        as
        > normative when they designed the thing. With 26" (mountain)
        bikes,
        > the changes are likely to be modest.
        >
        > However, when you put an Xtracycle on a frame designed for 700c
        > ('29"') wheels, the geometry changes are more substantial. The
        seat
        > and head angles are slackened, and the bottom bracket lowered.
        The
        > lower BB means it's easier to get a foot down, which is nice on a
        > laden bike -- you don't have to lean it when you stop and remain
        > seated. The slacker seat tube angle shifts more of your weight
        back
        > onto your butt and off your hands, which I also like for comfort,
        and
        > it also makes it easier to get a foot down (your hips are rotated
        > further back on the BB axis). But the slacker head angle
        exacerbates
        > the chopper steering feel by increasing "trail" (read about trail
        > here: http://tinyurl. com/oe6mq ; play with it here: http://
        > www.kogswell. com/geo.php ).
        >
        > So, I think it's a good idea to contrive to reduce the trail on
        > Xtracycles generally, and on 700C/29" Xtracycles in particular.
        One
        > way to do it is to use smaller wheels than the frame was designed
        > for. This is easy with disc brakes. Another consequence of
        smaller
        > wheels is that the BB is further lowered, so there's a risk of
        pedal
        > strike if you overdo it. You can raise the bike back up part of
        the
        > way by running extra fat tires. And this is a good thing with a
        non-
        > mechanically suspended cargo bike anyway: air is no-fuss
        lightweight
        > suspension, and the only kind at all for the load on an Xtracycle.
        >
        > Another approach is to start with a 26" bike designed for a
        > suspension fork, and use a rigid, short fork (e.g., Surly
        Instigator
        > with Surly 1x1 fork). This lowers the front end, effectively
        > steepening the head angle to lessen trail. Swap in a layback
        seatpost
        > and tall stem/bars to keep from pitching forward.
        >

      • Juergen Weichert
        ... I don t know. ... Cutting through the woods would probably be fine - on trails. The wide footprint and possibility to run low pressures on this tire means
        Message 3 of 21 , Jul 14 7:45 AM
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          Ken Heronheart wrote:
          > Hello Juergen,
          >
          > On Thursday, July 13, 2006, 2:21:59 PM, you wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          >> I run 26" Big Apple (x60 size) tires on my Xtracycle equipped MTB. The
          >> ride on these tires is WONDERFUL.
          >>
          >
          > How well do the Big Apples do off-road?
          I don't know.
          > I'm not an aggressive trail
          > rider but I do regularly cut through the woods as part of one of my
          > commutes.
          Cutting through the woods would probably be fine - on trails. The wide
          footprint and possibility to run low pressures on this tire means you
          will probably leave less evidence of your trek through the woods than
          with other tires.
          > Also, how do they do in snow?
          >
          I probably won't know. In the winter I switch to Schwalbe Snow Spiker
          tires. I would assume the relatively semi-slick nature of the Big Apples
          probably wouldn't do so well in winter.

          Juergen
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