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Rain Cover, FLs & Velcro

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  • tda0818
    In my continuing quest to render the X more rain tolerant, I m working on making my own rain cover. At the suggestion of someone here, I started off by using
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 30, 2008
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      In my continuing quest to render the X more rain tolerant, I'm working
      on making my own rain cover. At the suggestion of someone here, I
      started off by using a normal rain poncho, putting grommets in the
      four corners, and using loops of bungee cord to tie it down. This
      worked great for a while, until I tried to stretch it over some
      groceries and the fabric simply ripped.

      So I decided to get some sturdier material and make my own cover. I
      bought several yards of fairly lightweight black vinyl-coated
      polyester (VCP), some vinyl cement (to minimize the sewing), 10 yards
      of 1/8" bungee cord, and assorted bits of bungee-type hardware.

      I've cut the VCP to a size so it fits under the SnapDeck and drapes
      over both FLs, like saddlebag covers, leaving enough length so that
      the cover will still work when the FLs are stuffed with, well, stuff.
      It's nothing very fancy, but it should render the X basically
      rainproof. (Except, of course, for the SnapDeck and the inner surfaces
      of the FLs, which will still get splattered with a lot of water off
      the back wheel. I might, at some point, line the FLs' wheel-facing
      surface with VCP, too.)

      I've put lengths of 1/4" polypro rope along the bottom edges of the
      cover, folded the VCP over it and glued it shut. That'll give me a
      strong edge to tie to, if I ever need to do that.

      I'm wide open to any and all suggestions from the group, but my main
      question right now is this: has anybody had any luck getting Velcro
      tape to stick to the outer surfaces of the FLs, using either the
      normal sticky-back Velcro, or the iron-on kind?

      Velcro would be the ideal way to hold the covers shut over the FLs.
      Strips up the sides of the FLs would give me something to stick to
      almost regardless of how full or empty the FLs are. I'm just
      concerned that the Velcro tape won't stay stuck to the material the
      FLs are made of.

      If it won't, I suppose I might hand-sew strips of Velcro to the FLs.
      My backup plan is to lace the bungee cord through the rope-edges of
      the cover, and use that and some hardware to tie the covers to the
      bottom FR tube somehow.

      If my digicam worked, I'd post a photo. Hopefully my description
      isn't so vague and confusing as to be useless.

      Thanks!

      -- urbino


      P.S. If anyone's wondering, here are my materials sources, thus far:

      VCP, glue, bungee cord, and hardware -- www.seattlefabrics.com
      handy rope/bungee splicing nuts -- www.splicingnut.com
      polypropylene rope -- local Lowe's
    • Antonio
      Urbino, I do not recommend using sticky Velcro on its own without stitching. By now I have probably mentioned dozens of times on this forum how I worked as a
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 31, 2008
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        Urbino,

        I do not recommend using sticky Velcro on its own without stitching.
        By now I have probably mentioned dozens of times on this forum how I
        worked as a bike messenger in NYC for several years, but during that
        time I have used a number of different types of Velcro. I love the stuff.

        Unfortunately when you are dealing with varying conditions of freezing
        cold, soaking wet, dry, and baking-hot, along with probably dust, mud,
        and exhaust... THEN throw in the added factor of the flap
        fabric/material being flexible in order to be repeatedly bent, folded
        over, and draped when loading and unloading...
        any possible sticky glue on any Velcro strips will not hold up for
        long without peeling.

        I especially like to use Velcro "one-wrap" straps for tying things
        down on my bike. "One-Wrap" is basically just Velcro straps, which
        have one side fully hooked with the other side fully looped. I have
        since added a usage to my Velcro straps as well. Now I have them
        wrapped as bar tape around my oddly shaped handle bars, which have
        foam tubing zip-tied underneath the Velcro for cushioning.

        In any case, I definitely recommend stitching any Velcro you plan on
        using with the Xtracycle. I also highly suggest NOT trying to stitch
        sticky-backed Velcro because the glue makes it so much hardy to sew
        through. The glue will also tend to stick to the threading and cause
        it to tangle itself up. Sometime the tangles are sticky enough to even
        snap thread lines. Usually for any outdoor/cycling gear I almost
        always will also triple or quadruple my thread lines while stitching,
        and make sure to use synthetic thread like polyester or nylon based.
        Cotton thread will fray and break over time, especially after getting
        wet, etc.

        Speaking of synthetic versus natural fibers in threads. Has anyone
        heard of or actually used hemp-based thread or something similar in
        that realm? That might prove interesting to use as opposed to synthetics.
        _TONE_
      • tda0818
        Extremely helpful, Tone. Thanks. I probably would ve bought the sticky kind even if I was sewing it on, just so it would stay put while I was sewing. Now I
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 31, 2008
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          Extremely helpful, Tone. Thanks. I probably would've bought the
          sticky kind even if I was sewing it on, just so it would stay put
          while I was sewing. Now I know better.

          -- urbino

          --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Antonio" <Tone@...> wrote:
          >
          > Urbino,
          >
          > I do not recommend using sticky Velcro on its own without stitching.
          > By now I have probably mentioned dozens of times on this forum how I
          > worked as a bike messenger in NYC for several years, but during that
          > time I have used a number of different types of Velcro. I love the
          stuff.
          >
          > Unfortunately when you are dealing with varying conditions of freezing
          > cold, soaking wet, dry, and baking-hot, along with probably dust, mud,
          > and exhaust... THEN throw in the added factor of the flap
          > fabric/material being flexible in order to be repeatedly bent, folded
          > over, and draped when loading and unloading...
          > any possible sticky glue on any Velcro strips will not hold up for
          > long without peeling.
          >
          > I especially like to use Velcro "one-wrap" straps for tying things
          > down on my bike. "One-Wrap" is basically just Velcro straps, which
          > have one side fully hooked with the other side fully looped. I have
          > since added a usage to my Velcro straps as well. Now I have them
          > wrapped as bar tape around my oddly shaped handle bars, which have
          > foam tubing zip-tied underneath the Velcro for cushioning.
          >
          > In any case, I definitely recommend stitching any Velcro you plan on
          > using with the Xtracycle. I also highly suggest NOT trying to stitch
          > sticky-backed Velcro because the glue makes it so much hardy to sew
          > through. The glue will also tend to stick to the threading and cause
          > it to tangle itself up. Sometime the tangles are sticky enough to even
          > snap thread lines. Usually for any outdoor/cycling gear I almost
          > always will also triple or quadruple my thread lines while stitching,
          > and make sure to use synthetic thread like polyester or nylon based.
          > Cotton thread will fray and break over time, especially after getting
          > wet, etc.
          >
          > Speaking of synthetic versus natural fibers in threads. Has anyone
          > heard of or actually used hemp-based thread or something similar in
          > that realm? That might prove interesting to use as opposed to
          synthetics.
          > _TONE_
          >
        • Philip.X.Diaz
          i ve found that it s MUCH easier to sew through the non-sticky velcro. the adhesive tends to gum up the needle on a sewing machine. use pins to hold the velcro
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 31, 2008
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            i've found that it's MUCH easier to sew through the non-sticky velcro. the adhesive tends to gum up the needle on a sewing machine.

            use pins to hold the velcro in place, and pull them out as you sew - that way the velcro will lay flat where you're sewing, and you won't hit any pins.


            On Mar 31, 2008, at 12:44 PM, tda0818 wrote:

            Extremely helpful, Tone. Thanks. I probably would've bought the
            sticky kind even if I was sewing it on, just so it would stay put
            while I was sewing. Now I know better.

            -- urbino

            --- In rootsradicals@ yahoogroups. com, "Antonio" <Tone@...> wrote:
            >
            > Urbino,
            > 
            > I do not recommend using sticky Velcro on its own without stitching.
            > By now I have probably mentioned dozens of times on this forum how I
            > worked as a bike messenger in NYC for several years, but during that
            > time I have used a number of different types of Velcro. I love the
            stuff. 
            > 
            > Unfortunately when you are dealing with varying conditions of freezing
            > cold, soaking wet, dry, and baking-hot, along with probably dust, mud,
            > and exhaust... THEN throw in the added factor of the flap
            > fabric/material being flexible in order to be repeatedly bent, folded
            > over, and draped when loading and unloading...
            > any possible sticky glue on any Velcro strips will not hold up for
            > long without peeling.
            > 
            > I especially like to use Velcro "one-wrap" straps for tying things
            > down on my bike. "One-Wrap" is basically just Velcro straps, which
            > have one side fully hooked with the other side fully looped. I have
            > since added a usage to my Velcro straps as well. Now I have them
            > wrapped as bar tape around my oddly shaped handle bars, which have
            > foam tubing zip-tied underneath the Velcro for cushioning.
            > 
            > In any case, I definitely recommend stitching any Velcro you plan on
            > using with the Xtracycle. I also highly suggest NOT trying to stitch
            > sticky-backed Velcro because the glue makes it so much hardy to sew
            > through. The glue will also tend to stick to the threading and cause
            > it to tangle itself up. Sometime the tangles are sticky enough to even
            > snap thread lines. Usually for any outdoor/cycling gear I almost
            > always will also triple or quadruple my thread lines while stitching,
            > and make sure to use synthetic thread like polyester or nylon based.
            > Cotton thread will fray and break over time, especially after getting
            > wet, etc.
            > 
            > Speaking of synthetic versus natural fibers in threads. Has anyone
            > heard of or actually used hemp-based thread or something similar in
            > that realm? That might prove interesting to use as opposed to
            synthetics.
            > _TONE_
            >

          • Phil Good-Elliott
            Speaking of alternatives to oil based products, here s an interesting series of articles that recently appeared in the Los Angeles Times. Accompanying articles
            Message 5 of 10 , Mar 31, 2008
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              Speaking of alternatives to oil based products, here's an interesting
              series of articles that recently appeared in the Los Angeles Times.
              Accompanying articles are linked below this introductory piece:

              http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-cover30mar30-sg,1,5306130.storygallery

              -Phil


              --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Antonio" <Tone@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > Speaking of synthetic versus natural fibers in threads. Has anyone
              > heard of or actually used hemp-based thread or something similar in
              > that realm? That might prove interesting to use as opposed to
              synthetics.
              > _TONE_
              >
            • tda0818
              Good tip about the pins, Philip. I discovered it while sewing pleats in my rain cover, to give it some shape where it wraps over the V-racks (one at each top
              Message 6 of 10 , Apr 14, 2008
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                Good tip about the pins, Philip. I discovered it while sewing pleats
                in my rain cover, to give it some shape where it wraps over the
                V-racks (one at each top front corner, and at each rear).

                I haven't sewn on the velcro, yet. I had, surprisingly, the devil's
                own time finding any black sew-on velcro. I ended up having to order
                it, and it just arrived last week.

                Right now, I'm going with a strap at each bottom corner. I sewed what
                amounts to a big buttonhole at each. In the front, I've wrapped
                velcro one-wrap through the button hole and around the chainstay. At
                the back, where the straps have to reach farther, I used those
                ball-and-loop bungee cords. I'll get around to sewing on the velcro
                at some point. Right now, I want to live with it as-is for a while,
                and see what improvements become obvious.

                I'm already getting the feeling this will turn out to be a prototype.

                -- urbino

                --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Philip.X.Diaz" <st_indigo@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > i've found that it's MUCH easier to sew through the non-sticky velcro.
                > the adhesive tends to gum up the needle on a sewing machine.
                >
                > use pins to hold the velcro in place, and pull them out as you sew -
                > that way the velcro will lay flat where you're sewing, and you won't
                > hit any pins.
                >
                >
              • kwikfile08
                How about snap rings similar to these picture here? http://mh.manufacturer.globalsources.com/si/6008802857733/LargeImage/Metal-Snap-
                Message 7 of 10 , Apr 14, 2008
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                  How about snap rings similar to these picture here?
                  http://mh.manufacturer.globalsources.com/si/6008802857733/LargeImage/Metal-Snap-
                  Ring/product_id-1001148562/action-GetProduct.htm

                  I have used a type where the Male end screws onto the base (Freeloader bar) then the
                  cover could "snap" on with the female button.

                  just a thought...








                  --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "tda0818" <tda0818@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > In my continuing quest to render the X more rain tolerant, I'm working
                  > on making my own rain cover. At the suggestion of someone here, I
                  > started off by using a normal rain poncho, putting grommets in the
                  > four corners, and using loops of bungee cord to tie it down. This
                  > worked great for a while, until I tried to stretch it over some
                  > groceries and the fabric simply ripped.
                  >
                  > So I decided to get some sturdier material and make my own cover. I
                  > bought several yards of fairly lightweight black vinyl-coated
                  > polyester (VCP), some vinyl cement (to minimize the sewing), 10 yards
                  > of 1/8" bungee cord, and assorted bits of bungee-type hardware.
                  >
                  > I've cut the VCP to a size so it fits under the SnapDeck and drapes
                  > over both FLs, like saddlebag covers, leaving enough length so that
                  > the cover will still work when the FLs are stuffed with, well, stuff.
                  > It's nothing very fancy, but it should render the X basically
                  > rainproof. (Except, of course, for the SnapDeck and the inner surfaces
                  > of the FLs, which will still get splattered with a lot of water off
                  > the back wheel. I might, at some point, line the FLs' wheel-facing
                  > surface with VCP, too.)
                  >
                  > I've put lengths of 1/4" polypro rope along the bottom edges of the
                  > cover, folded the VCP over it and glued it shut. That'll give me a
                  > strong edge to tie to, if I ever need to do that.
                  >
                  > I'm wide open to any and all suggestions from the group, but my main
                  > question right now is this: has anybody had any luck getting Velcro
                  > tape to stick to the outer surfaces of the FLs, using either the
                  > normal sticky-back Velcro, or the iron-on kind?
                  >
                  > Velcro would be the ideal way to hold the covers shut over the FLs.
                  > Strips up the sides of the FLs would give me something to stick to
                  > almost regardless of how full or empty the FLs are. I'm just
                  > concerned that the Velcro tape won't stay stuck to the material the
                  > FLs are made of.
                  >
                  > If it won't, I suppose I might hand-sew strips of Velcro to the FLs.
                  > My backup plan is to lace the bungee cord through the rope-edges of
                  > the cover, and use that and some hardware to tie the covers to the
                  > bottom FR tube somehow.
                  >
                  > If my digicam worked, I'd post a photo. Hopefully my description
                  > isn't so vague and confusing as to be useless.
                  >
                  > Thanks!
                  >
                  > -- urbino
                  >
                  >
                  > P.S. If anyone's wondering, here are my materials sources, thus far:
                  >
                  > VCP, glue, bungee cord, and hardware -- www.seattlefabrics.com
                  > handy rope/bungee splicing nuts -- www.splicingnut.com
                  > polypropylene rope -- local Lowe's
                  >
                • Mark Garvey
                  Maybe I am simply just too used to hacking stuff. but why not rig a rain cover by obtaining a small tarp (a plastic one will do nicely) and cutting it down
                  Message 8 of 10 , Apr 15, 2008
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                    Maybe I am simply just too used to hacking stuff.  but why not rig a rain cover by obtaining a small tarp (a plastic one will do nicely) and cutting it down then putting grommets in it for bungee straps or elastic cord?  cost will be nominal at worst.  a cheapo tarp can be had for $3-4 at a big box lumberyard (home depot, Lowes, Menards etc)  Grommet kits are available at the same place and so are bungee cords.  The tarp can be rigged OVER the snapdeck and cargo on there if you wish.  Or you could figure out a way to make holes for the fittings and put it UNDER the deck.  either way, it would WORK anyway.

                    Also, the Tarp could do double duty as a ground cloth or as a sun shade when camping.  think about it.  the more functions that a single object HAS, the more stuff you don't have to carry!

                    mark

                    On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 7:37 PM, Philip.X.Diaz <st_indigo@...> wrote:
                    i've found that it's MUCH easier to sew through the non-sticky velcro. the adhesive tends to gum up the needle on a sewing machine.

                    use pins to hold the velcro in place, and pull them out as you sew - that way the velcro will lay flat where you're sewing, and you won't hit any pins.


                    On Mar 31, 2008, at 12:44 PM, tda0818 wrote:

                    Extremely helpful, Tone. Thanks. I probably would've bought the
                    sticky kind even if I was sewing it on, just so it would stay put
                    while I was sewing. Now I know better.

                    -- urbino



                    --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Antonio" <Tone@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Urbino,
                    > 
                    > I do not recommend using sticky Velcro on its own without stitching.
                    > By now I have probably mentioned dozens of times on this forum how I
                    > worked as a bike messenger in NYC for several years, but during that
                    > time I have used a number of different types of Velcro. I love the
                    stuff. 
                    > 
                    > Unfortunately when you are dealing with varying conditions of freezing
                    > cold, soaking wet, dry, and baking-hot, along with probably dust, mud,
                    > and exhaust... THEN throw in the added factor of the flap
                    > fabric/material being flexible in order to be repeatedly bent, folded
                    > over, and draped when loading and unloading...
                    > any possible sticky glue on any Velcro strips will not hold up for
                    > long without peeling.
                    > 
                    > I especially like to use Velcro "one-wrap" straps for tying things
                    > down on my bike. "One-Wrap" is basically just Velcro straps, which
                    > have one side fully hooked with the other side fully looped. I have
                    > since added a usage to my Velcro straps as well. Now I have them
                    > wrapped as bar tape around my oddly shaped handle bars, which have
                    > foam tubing zip-tied underneath the Velcro for cushioning.
                    > 
                    > In any case, I definitely recommend stitching any Velcro you plan on
                    > using with the Xtracycle. I also highly suggest NOT trying to stitch
                    > sticky-backed Velcro because the glue makes it so much hardy to sew
                    > through. The glue will also tend to stick to the threading and cause
                    > it to tangle itself up. Sometime the tangles are sticky enough to even
                    > snap thread lines. Usually for any outdoor/cycling gear I almost
                    > always will also triple or quadruple my thread lines while stitching,
                    > and make sure to use synthetic thread like polyester or nylon based.
                    > Cotton thread will fray and break over time, especially after getting
                    > wet, etc.
                    > 
                    > Speaking of synthetic versus natural fibers in threads. Has anyone
                    > heard of or actually used hemp-based thread or something similar in
                    > that realm? That might prove interesting to use as opposed to
                    synthetics.
                    > _TONE_
                    >




                    --
                    Give a man a fish and feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and feed him for a lifetime. Teach a man to cycle and he will realize fishing is stupid and boring. –Desmond Tutu
                  • tda0818
                    That s pretty much what my Iteration 1 raincover was, Mark; only it used a poncho instead of a cut-down tarp. I put grommets in the corners, tossed it over
                    Message 9 of 10 , Apr 15, 2008
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                      That's pretty much what my Iteration 1 raincover was, Mark; only it
                      used a poncho instead of a cut-down tarp. I put grommets in the
                      corners, tossed it over the deck, and tied it down with bungees. It
                      caught a gust of wind and one of the grommets tore right through the
                      fabric.

                      What I wanted this time was something that a) wouldn't catch the wind,
                      b) was sturdier, c) I could leave on all the time instead of having to
                      stow it in the FLs when not in use, and d) I could flip up on either
                      or both sides, while loading, and it would stay put.

                      So I got some vinyl-coated polyester, lapped it under the deck, and
                      triple-stitched pleats in the top corners (which also make it a very
                      effective rear fender). I also triple-zigzag-stitched some 1/4" nylon
                      rope in the edges, to give them some weight and to give me something
                      to sturdy to tie onto in the future, if I decide I need to bungee it
                      mid-FL to the bottome of the FR frame. Right now I'm just doing the
                      corner tie-downs thing, but I still plan to sew some velcro on the
                      undersides of the covers and the outsides of the FLs, so I can stick
                      'em shut in a jiff, and be able to close them even when the FLs are
                      stuffed with stuff.

                      With the pleats, it would be better as a sun shade/rain shelter than
                      ground cover, but could do the latter in a pinch.

                      -- urbino

                      --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Garvey" <lazybee45@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Maybe I am simply just too used to hacking stuff. but why not rig a
                      rain
                      > cover by obtaining a small tarp (a plastic one will do nicely) and
                      cutting
                      > it down then putting grommets in it for bungee straps or elastic
                      cord? cost
                      > will be nominal at worst. a cheapo tarp can be had for $3-4 at a
                      big box
                      > lumberyard (home depot, Lowes, Menards etc) Grommet kits are
                      available at
                      > the same place and so are bungee cords. The tarp can be rigged OVER the
                      > snapdeck and cargo on there if you wish. Or you could figure out a
                      way to
                      > make holes for the fittings and put it UNDER the deck. either way,
                      it would
                      > WORK anyway.
                      >
                      > Also, the Tarp could do double duty as a ground cloth or as a sun
                      shade when
                      > camping. think about it. the more functions that a single object
                      HAS, the
                      > more stuff you don't have to carry!
                      >
                      > mark
                      >
                    • tda0818
                      Yes, snaps would work, too. They d be rattly, though. -- urbino ... http://mh.manufacturer.globalsources.com/si/6008802857733/LargeImage/Metal-Snap- ...
                      Message 10 of 10 , Apr 15, 2008
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Yes, snaps would work, too. They'd be rattly, though.

                        -- urbino

                        --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "kwikfile08" <kwikfile08@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > How about snap rings similar to these picture here?
                        >
                        http://mh.manufacturer.globalsources.com/si/6008802857733/LargeImage/Metal-Snap-
                        > Ring/product_id-1001148562/action-GetProduct.htm
                        >
                        > I have used a type where the Male end screws onto the base
                        (Freeloader bar) then the
                        > cover could "snap" on with the female button.
                        >
                        > just a thought...
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "tda0818" <tda0818@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > In my continuing quest to render the X more rain tolerant, I'm working
                        > > on making my own rain cover. At the suggestion of someone here, I
                        > > started off by using a normal rain poncho, putting grommets in the
                        > > four corners, and using loops of bungee cord to tie it down. This
                        > > worked great for a while, until I tried to stretch it over some
                        > > groceries and the fabric simply ripped.
                        > >
                        > > So I decided to get some sturdier material and make my own cover. I
                        > > bought several yards of fairly lightweight black vinyl-coated
                        > > polyester (VCP), some vinyl cement (to minimize the sewing), 10 yards
                        > > of 1/8" bungee cord, and assorted bits of bungee-type hardware.
                        > >
                        > > I've cut the VCP to a size so it fits under the SnapDeck and drapes
                        > > over both FLs, like saddlebag covers, leaving enough length so that
                        > > the cover will still work when the FLs are stuffed with, well, stuff.
                        > > It's nothing very fancy, but it should render the X basically
                        > > rainproof. (Except, of course, for the SnapDeck and the inner surfaces
                        > > of the FLs, which will still get splattered with a lot of water off
                        > > the back wheel. I might, at some point, line the FLs' wheel-facing
                        > > surface with VCP, too.)
                        > >
                        > > I've put lengths of 1/4" polypro rope along the bottom edges of the
                        > > cover, folded the VCP over it and glued it shut. That'll give me a
                        > > strong edge to tie to, if I ever need to do that.
                        > >
                        > > I'm wide open to any and all suggestions from the group, but my main
                        > > question right now is this: has anybody had any luck getting Velcro
                        > > tape to stick to the outer surfaces of the FLs, using either the
                        > > normal sticky-back Velcro, or the iron-on kind?
                        > >
                        > > Velcro would be the ideal way to hold the covers shut over the FLs.
                        > > Strips up the sides of the FLs would give me something to stick to
                        > > almost regardless of how full or empty the FLs are. I'm just
                        > > concerned that the Velcro tape won't stay stuck to the material the
                        > > FLs are made of.
                        > >
                        > > If it won't, I suppose I might hand-sew strips of Velcro to the FLs.
                        > > My backup plan is to lace the bungee cord through the rope-edges of
                        > > the cover, and use that and some hardware to tie the covers to the
                        > > bottom FR tube somehow.
                        > >
                        > > If my digicam worked, I'd post a photo. Hopefully my description
                        > > isn't so vague and confusing as to be useless.
                        > >
                        > > Thanks!
                        > >
                        > > -- urbino
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > P.S. If anyone's wondering, here are my materials sources, thus far:
                        > >
                        > > VCP, glue, bungee cord, and hardware -- www.seattlefabrics.com
                        > > handy rope/bungee splicing nuts -- www.splicingnut.com
                        > > polypropylene rope -- local Lowe's
                        > >
                        >
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