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RE: [rootsradicals] sloppy shifts

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  • Tone
    Todd, Over the years I have noticed more chain slippage on my Xtracycled bike than in the past. I believe it to be a result of the longer chain. What I think
    Message 1 of 8 , Nov 1, 2007

      Todd,

                  Over the years I have noticed more chain slippage on my Xtracycled bike than in the past. I believe it to be a result of the longer chain. What I think happens is the length of the chain pulls on the derailleur and alters the spring tension more than on a normal bike. When shifting gears or hitting a bump, I believe the weighted strain on the derailleur arm sometimes causes the chain to “bounce”, which causes the chain to skip/slip on the gears due to the brief reduction in tension.

                  It may be possible to increase the tension on the spring in your derailleur. I have actually converted my bike to a single speed using Surly’s Tensionator (I forget if that is what they actually call it). This way I could get a slightly thicker gear, chain-ring, and chain for longer duration, to avoid extra wear from shifting, and to simplify things for maintenance purposes. Unfortunately I encountered about the same amount of chain skipping as before. Fortunately however, my old bike shop popped open the Tensionator and physically increased the spring’s tension. Now I infrequently notice chain skipping, except on the Tensionator itself if I unnecessarily slam into a major bump at a high speed, but the Tensionator has its own rails, so I have never experienced completely chain slippage since the adjustment.

                  While reading your post I was going to mention chain stretching and gear/chain-ring wear definitely contribute to the potential for chain skipping. However, you did say you recently installed a rear cluster and new chain, so worn out parts should not be contributing to your particular situation. How were your chain-rings though? I do not think you said you replaced them. If they are worn enough and you replaced the rear cassette and drive chain, but not the chain ring, then the difference in how the new chain fits into the teeth of the old chain ring could possibly contribute to overall wear. As I said before, worn drive mechanisms can certainly be a factor in chain skipping.

       

      _TONE_

       

    • Mark Garvey
      ... . My chain is slipping from gear to gear in back and it s become a source of great angst for me. ... -- Putting the fun in dysfunctional for over 50 years!
      Message 2 of 8 , Nov 1, 2007
        On Nov 1, 2007 3:29 PM, Todd Reed <tl_reed@...> wrote:
        > Howdy all,
        >
        . My chain is slipping from gear to gear in back and it's become a
        source of great angst for me.
        >

        >
        > More than anything on a bike I really appreciate having a solid drive-train that's predictable and trouble-free. I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions how I can achieve this on my bike.
        >
        > Thanks in advance for any tips.
        >
        > Todd
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > __________________________________________________
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        >
        >
        > You're getting this message because you signed up to be an Xtracycle roots radical.
        >
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        >
        >
        > ride to believe.
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        >
        >
        >
        >



        --
        Putting the fun in dysfunctional for over 50 years!


        Mark Garvey
        Cedar Rapids, Iowa free state!

        Check out the web site at:
        http://www.vine-ave.com

        contact us to have Papa Balloon appear at your next program! Details
        at www.vine-ave.com

        I am a bicycling lifestylist!
      • Mark Garvey
        On Nov 1, 2007 3:29 PM, Todd Reed wrote: . My chain is slipping from gear to gear in back and it s become a source of great angst for me.
        Message 3 of 8 , Nov 1, 2007
          On Nov 1, 2007 3:29 PM, Todd Reed <tl_reed@...> wrote:
          . My chain is slipping from gear to gear in back and it's become a
          source of great angst for me.

          >
          > More than anything on a bike I really appreciate having a solid drive-train that's predictable and trouble-free. I'm wondering if anyone has any suggestions how I can achieve this on my bike.
          >
          > Thanks in advance for any tips.
          >
          > Todd
          >

          the chain tension thing is one point and one way to deal with it is to
          use a chain idler. I have been riding recumbent bikes and trikes for
          several years and most have from one to three chain idlers to help
          route the chain and keep it from dragging on the derailleur. You can
          rig one using a skateboard wheel and a suitably sized bolt if you like
          (that is what I plan to do myself) or you can find a piece of teflon
          tube and run it from just a bit behind the chainring to just ahead of
          teh tension wheels on the derailleur and support it at a couple of
          places with zip ties. I have used BOTH methods and both WORK!

          You could talk to Pat Franz at Terracycle to see if something they
          make would be suitable, I haven't, but then I purchased one of his
          idlers for my WizWheels Trike some years ago and they are very well
          made! I also purchased a flip stem for my Vision recumbent bike and
          I was absolutely pleased with the quality of his work. Possibly the
          folks at Xtracycle might want to explore the possibility of Pat coming
          up with a proper idler for the X. It would take the weight of the
          chain off the Derailleur and make shifting more positive I believe.

          I personally have not had this difficulty with my X, but then it could
          be in my future! My vision had really awful shifting until I upgraded
          the shift levers to Shimano bar Cons and went to friction shifters, so
          that MIGHT be a factor. I had index shifters on the Vision when I
          first acquired it and I could not throw them far enough!

          mark

          --
          Putting the fun in dysfunctional for over 50 years!


          Mark Garvey
          Cedar Rapids, Iowa free state!

          Check out the web site at:
          http://www.vine-ave.com

          contact us to have Papa Balloon appear at your next program! Details
          at www.vine-ave.com

          I am a bicycling lifestylist!
        • David Chase
          It is possible that your indexed shifter is out of whack. I am not 100% sure how to adjust a 7-speed shifter, but for an 8 or 9, the rule is to shift so that
          Message 4 of 8 , Nov 1, 2007
            It is possible that your indexed shifter is out of whack.
            I am not 100% sure how to adjust a 7-speed shifter, but
            for an 8 or 9, the rule is to shift so that the derailleur should
            be on the second smallest cog, adjust the cable tension so
            that it is just jumping at #3 from #2, then back off a little so
            that it stays in #2 (but no more than necessary).

            I do this, and check it after big temperature swings, and
            I have had nothing but good shifts.

            On 2007-11-01, at 4:29 PM, Todd Reed wrote:

            > Howdy all,
            >
            > I don't know that this is a strictly Xtracycle related problem.
            > There's probably lots on the list who would know how to fix this
            > though. I've got a Bridgestone MB-1 frame with my Xtracycle on the
            > rear. It's a nice solid retro Cro-Mo mtb frame with classic
            > dimensions, or so I've been told. I've got a Shimano XT rear
            > derailleur and Deore XT thumbshifters. My chain is slipping from
            > gear to gear in back and it's become a source of great angst for me.
            >
            > I recently installed a new rear 7-speed cluster and Shimano chain
            > set since the chain had stretched and the cogset was pretty old.
            > The performance of this new setup leaves something to be desired.
            > Nothing like a chain slipping from gear to gear after a shift to
            > give you that uneasy feeling. I would guess the bike ship sold me
            > some knock-off rear cog, but perhaps it also has to do with the
            > long chain length with the Xtracycle.
            >
            > More than anything on a bike I really appreciate having a solid
            > drive-train that's predictable and trouble-free. I'm wondering if
            > anyone has any suggestions how I can achieve this on my bike.
            >
            > Thanks in advance for any tips.
            >
            > Todd
            >
            > __________________________________________________
            > Do You Yahoo!?
            > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
            > http://mail.yahoo.com
            >
            >
          • Mark Garvey
            Oh, another point, get friction shifters! I have NEVER had good luck with index shifters. which was part of the point I made in my last note. I love my
            Message 5 of 8 , Nov 1, 2007
              Oh, another point, get friction shifters! I have NEVER had good luck
              with index shifters. which was part of the point I made in my last
              note. I love my friction shifters. yes, sometimes I have a little
              problem with the chain not quite in one gear or another, but when I
              have friction shifters, I can jiggle them to the right place. you can
              NOT do this with index shifters!

              mark

              On Nov 1, 2007 6:53 PM, David Chase <dr2chase@...> wrote:
              > It is possible that your indexed shifter is out of whack.
              > I am not 100% sure how to adjust a 7-speed shifter, but
              > for an 8 or 9, the rule is to shift so that the derailleur should
              > be on the second smallest cog, adjust the cable tension so
              > that it is just jumping at #3 from #2, then back off a little so
              > that it stays in #2 (but no more than necessary).
              >
              > I do this, and check it after big temperature swings, and
              > I have had nothing but good shifts.
              >
              >
              > On 2007-11-01, at 4:29 PM, Todd Reed wrote:
              >
              > > Howdy all,
              > >
              > > I don't know that this is a strictly Xtracycle related problem.
              > > There's probably lots on the list who would know how to fix this
              > > though. I've got a Bridgestone MB-1 frame with my Xtracycle on the
              > > rear. It's a nice solid retro Cro-Mo mtb frame with classic
              > > dimensions, or so I've been told. I've got a Shimano XT rear
              > > derailleur and Deore XT thumbshifters. My chain is slipping from
              > > gear to gear in back and it's become a source of great angst for me.
              > >
              > > I recently installed a new rear 7-speed cluster and Shimano chain
              > > set since the chain had stretched and the cogset was pretty old.
              > > The performance of this new setup leaves something to be desired.
              > > Nothing like a chain slipping from gear to gear after a shift to
              > > give you that uneasy feeling. I would guess the bike ship sold me
              > > some knock-off rear cog, but perhaps it also has to do with the
              > > long chain length with the Xtracycle.
              > >
              > > More than anything on a bike I really appreciate having a solid
              > > drive-train that's predictable and trouble-free. I'm wondering if
              > > anyone has any suggestions how I can achieve this on my bike.
              > >
              > > Thanks in advance for any tips.
              > >
              > > Todd
              > >
              > > __________________________________________________
              > > Do You Yahoo!?
              > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
              > > http://mail.yahoo.com
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              > You're getting this message because you signed up to be an Xtracycle roots radical.
              >
              > To Post a message, send it to: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
              >
              >
              > ride to believe.
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >



              --
              Putting the fun in dysfunctional for over 50 years!


              Mark Garvey
              Cedar Rapids, Iowa free state!

              Check out the web site at:
              http://www.vine-ave.com

              contact us to have Papa Balloon appear at your next program! Details
              at www.vine-ave.com

              I am a bicycling lifestylist!
            • liza mattana
              hey, so when you shift, it is exact and your chain stays in the right gear, but then it slips after riding for a little while? when you re carrying a heavy
              Message 6 of 8 , Nov 1, 2007
                hey,

                so when you shift, it is exact and your chain stays in the right gear, but then it slips after riding for a little while? when you're carrying a heavy load? when you're bearing down on it and trying to crank up a hill?

                i'm just trying to get a better picture of when it's happening. we have our x attached to a 1990 MB-2 with friction thumbshifters . our chain only skipped around a bit when we carried heavy loads and especially when we really torqued on it. my husband attributed it to frame flex. just another theory.

                liza

                On Nov 1, 2007 5:09 PM, Mark Garvey <lazybee45@...> wrote:

                Oh, another point, get friction shifters! I have NEVER had good luck
                with index shifters. which was part of the point I made in my last
                note. I love my friction shifters. yes, sometimes I have a little
                problem with the chain not quite in one gear or another, but when I
                have friction shifters, I can jiggle them to the right place. you can
                NOT do this with index shifters!

                mark



                On Nov 1, 2007 6:53 PM, David Chase <dr2chase@...> wrote:
                > It is possible that your indexed shifter is out of whack.
                > I am not 100% sure how to adjust a 7-speed shifter, but
                > for an 8 or 9, the rule is to shift so that the derailleur should
                > be on the second smallest cog, adjust the cable tension so
                > that it is just jumping at #3 from #2, then back off a little so
                > that it stays in #2 (but no more than necessary).
                >
                > I do this, and check it after big temperature swings, and
                > I have had nothing but good shifts.
                >
                >
                > On 2007-11-01, at 4:29 PM, Todd Reed wrote:
                >
                > > Howdy all,
                > >
                > > I don't know that this is a strictly Xtracycle related problem.
                > > There's probably lots on the list who would know how to fix this
                > > though. I've got a Bridgestone MB-1 frame with my Xtracycle on the
                > > rear. It's a nice solid retro Cro-Mo mtb frame with classic
                > > dimensions, or so I've been told. I've got a Shimano XT rear
                > > derailleur and Deore XT thumbshifters. My chain is slipping from
                > > gear to gear in back and it's become a source of great angst for me.
                > >
                > > I recently installed a new rear 7-speed cluster and Shimano chain
                > > set since the chain had stretched and the cogset was pretty old.
                > > The performance of this new setup leaves something to be desired.
                > > Nothing like a chain slipping from gear to gear after a shift to
                > > give you that uneasy feeling. I would guess the bike ship sold me
                > > some knock-off rear cog, but perhaps it also has to do with the
                > > long chain length with the Xtracycle.
                > >
                > > More than anything on a bike I really appreciate having a solid
                > > drive-train that's predictable and trouble-free. I'm wondering if
                > > anyone has any suggestions how I can achieve this on my bike.
                > >
                > > Thanks in advance for any tips.
                > >
                > > Todd
                > >
                > > __________________________________________________
                > > Do You Yahoo!?
                > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                > > http://mail.yahoo.com
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                > You're getting this message because you signed up to be an Xtracycle roots radical.
                >
                > To Post a message, send it to: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >
                > ride to believe.
                > Yahoo! Groups Links

                >
                >
                >
                >

                --
                Putting the fun in dysfunctional for over 50 years!

                Mark Garvey
                Cedar Rapids, Iowa free state!

                Check out the web site at:
                http://www.vine-ave.com

                contact us to have Papa Balloon appear at your next program! Details
                at www.vine-ave.com

                I am a bicycling lifestylist!



                --
                liza mattana
                http://www.pedals2people.org
                spokane, wa
              • Jeff Ong
                Well, since you ve got thumbshifters, I d first try switching to friction mode (the little lever on the side of the right shifter), which lets you trim cable
                Message 7 of 8 , Nov 2, 2007
                  Well, since you've got thumbshifters, I'd first try switching to
                  friction mode (the little lever on the side of the right shifter),
                  which lets you trim cable length continuously, rather than "clicking"
                  into gear...

                  Some other things to check would be:

                  * tightness of rear cassette (or freewheel) -- sometimes you need to
                  add a 1mm spacer to get the cassette to lock down tighly on the hub.
                  If there is any play in the cassette, resolve that first. Especially
                  since you just switched cassettes -- it's very common for them to
                  have slightly different widths, so the locknut engages before the
                  cassette is clamped down.

                  * straightness of the derailleur hanger. On your steel bike (sweet
                  frame, BTW!!!), it's integrated into the frame, but can still become
                  bent slightly. Good shops will have a Park tool to check alignment,
                  or you can roughly eyeball it.

                  * make sure the chain doesn't have any protruding rivets along its
                  length -- especially since you have two chains attached to each
                  other. (and make sure they're the same type of chain, and that you
                  don't have a length of old chain attached to some new chain with less
                  wear!)

                  * the Park tools site has pretty good tips for adjusting your rear
                  derailleur -- I assume you've gone through and set the H and L screws
                  and the B screw (to adjust the angle of the derailleur body), but it
                  never hurts to start over and get everything dialled in properly.
                  --

                  -----
                  Jeff Ong, Managing Partner, Leadcleaner (http://www.leadcleaner.com)
                  Web-based lead capture and qualification for direct marketing professionals.
                  Contact: ong@... or 503.239.7264
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