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Aerospoke wheels

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  • Cara Lin Bridgman
    Hey Tone, Huge congrats on your recognition for cranksgiving! Speaking of cracks on free-radicals and bike frames, how are your aerospoke wheels holding up (in
    Message 1 of 8 , Oct 4, 2013
      Hey Tone,

      Huge congrats on your recognition for cranksgiving!

      Speaking of cracks on free-radicals and bike frames, how are your
      aerospoke wheels holding up (in your picture, linked below)? They're
      carbon fiber, right? Carbon fiber, like aluminum, can break suddenly
      and catastrophically, so how are they doing on your bike? Aren't you
      still on the first set of wheels? If so, how many years have you been
      using them?

      Just last week, I saw my first aluminum or metal wheels following the
      aerospoke design. I should have gotten a picture while I could...

      CL

      On 10/03/2013 14:06, Tone wrote:
      > http://www.cranksgiving.net/XtraLoads/LunarLoad-Angle.jpg
    • David Chase
      ... I have zero experience with carbon fiber, but a fair amount with fiberglass from my coastal youth, and fiberglass cannot be superior with respect to
      Message 2 of 8 , Oct 5, 2013
        On 2013-10-05, at 12:54 AM, Cara Lin Bridgman <cara.lin@...> wrote:
        > Speaking of cracks on free-radicals and bike frames, how are your
        > aerospoke wheels holding up (in your picture, linked below)? They're
        > carbon fiber, right? Carbon fiber, like aluminum, can break suddenly
        > and catastrophically, so how are they doing on your bike?

        I have zero experience with carbon fiber, but a fair amount with fiberglass from
        my coastal youth, and fiberglass cannot be superior with respect to catastrophic
        failure ("glass", after all).

        The problem is (mostly) not the material, the problem is the weight weenies, who
        try to use too little of it (note that it may have unpleasant lack-of-flex properties if
        used to excess). Boats are built from fiberglass, motorboats, sailboats, you name it.
        They hold up fine in the face of all sorts of abuse, in some cases for decades.

        If you use it to excess, it's incredibly strong. There's a variety of boat called a "Sun Cat"
        (cat rig sailboat, designed for shallow Florida coastal waters and rapidly changing weather).
        My dad has #10, one man can horse the boat around on wet grass to work on it.
        I helped load #4 into the water -- they weren't sure how much to use on the first few boats,
        so they used a lot -- and it took six men and teenage boys to move it. The owner said
        he ran it into rocks by mistake once -- no problem.

        But you have to use enough of it, else you will be sorry.

        David
      • Tone
        Cara, Thanks for the congratulations. Personally, I do not think it is that big of a deal, but I never started Cranksgiving for any kind of recognition.
        Message 3 of 8 , Oct 8, 2013
          Cara,

          Thanks for the congratulations. Personally, I do not think it is that
          big of a deal, but I never started Cranksgiving for any kind of
          recognition. Anyone, who really knows me in the NYC messenger scene,
          knows I usually helped out in some capacity, major or minor, with
          numerous courier events. I tended to be the sober guy behind the scenes,
          and felt similarly when I did Cranksgiving. Although, the difference was
          I got to directly order people around at my own Cranksgiving races.

          The main positive for me about being recognized for Cranksgiving was I
          had a paid trip with accommodations to Las Vegas and InterBike, both of
          which I had never been to. After experiencing both though, I do not know
          if I would ever go again unless everything was paid for. I guess Vegas
          and the "wheeling and dealing" that happens at the convention just rubs
          me the wrong way.



          Speaking of InterBike and the Aeropsoke topic you are inquiring about,
          I saw some five-spoked rigid wheels made out of aluminum at InterBike.
          Perhaps they were the same kind, which you saw last week. At the
          convention I was able to lift up the metal five-spoked wheel, but I
          could not be sure if they were indeed heavier than Aerospoke wheels, as
          I suspected. They did not have tires mounted on them so I could not be
          sure, and even though I looked at the weight in the specifications
          listed on their display, I do not remember what it was because I am not
          one to really knit-pick over the weight of my bike.

          I was not all that impressed, so I did not linger long to find out what
          the manufacturers suggested retail price might be. I think it would only
          be worth if if they were considerably less expensive than carbon fiber
          wheels like Aerospokes. Even then, I would prefer to wait and see how
          truly durable they are from reviews and reports of end users after
          actually using them. I also apologize because I definitely do not recall
          what those metal wheels were called or their brand name, etc. However,
          perhaps that is a fair assessment of how unimpressed I was at their product.



          To finally address your main question about my Aerospokes, they are
          doing fine, and they are pretty much the same ones I had years ago. I
          say pretty much because I did have a non-disc brake Aerospoke wheel
          years ago while I was a messenger, but I literally blew it out from
          braking with rim-based brake pads. It was winter and I kept my bike
          locked up outdoors, so after working all day out in the cold and finally
          getting home I had no desire to do proper "routine" maintenance on my
          bike in the freezing dark. That of course included wiping off the grit
          and snow-melting chemical salts from my brake pads. Eventually one day
          toward the end of winter I was braking while riding down fifth Avenue in
          the Flat-Iron district, and the grinding action had built up enough over
          time to slice right through my rims like a can opener. My tire was cut
          into as was the blown inner tube. Upon closer inspection and a bit of a
          wiggle from just the pressure of my fingers, a ring of rim snapped right
          off of one side and the wheel was completely useless.

          When I first "upgraded" from regular spoked wheels to carbon fiber
          wheels to avoid dealing with truing my spokes and make it easier to pass
          through my kryptonite chain when constantly locking up my bike, I had
          gotten a set of "Spins." They were a three spoked carbon fiber rigid
          wheel, but much less expensive than Aerospokes. Not surprisingly, there
          was a reason for their considerably lower price, and the company went
          out of business years ago. I forget exactly why I upgraded yet again
          from the "Spins" to Aerospokes, but I do remember having the slightest
          feeling of vibration or "fluttering" while riding on the Spins. In my
          opinion that was caused by the wide space between the spokes, which gave
          way ever so slightly every time the wheel was in a position where the
          empty arch had to support all the weight. Naturally the "fluttering"
          seemed to speed up the faster I biked. As annoying as it sounds, it was
          actually kind of soothing, but I would never trust a set of Spins under
          a loaded cargo bike!

          I also seem to recall upgrading from Spins to Aerospokes around the
          time I became a long tail cargo bike rider with my first Xtracycle, some
          time in 2000 or 2001. I think that might have been partly because the
          FreeRadical had disc brake mounts, which my bike frame and the Spins did
          not support. Therefore, I got rid of my Spins and bought a set of
          Aerospokes. However, I only got disc brakes in the rear because of the
          expense of both the much higher priced disc-brake Aerospoke version and
          the more expensive Avid BB7 disc brakes. At the time I would have also
          had to spend even more money on also replacing my front fork to get one
          with disc brake mounts, so with all the other expenses I bought a
          non-disc brake Aeropsoke wheel for the front.

          Of course, you already know what happened to that non-disc brake
          Aerospoke wheel. If I recall correctly, I was lucky in finding out about
          the Aerospoke company's warranty policies. If I did not inform them of
          using my Aerospokes during commercial use, especially as a cargo bike
          messenger, I was able to ship back the damaged sliced rim, then they
          would replace it for me as long as I also paid for shipping of the new
          rim back to me. Of course, I never wanted to deal with the possibility
          of a pricey Aerospoke wheel being worn out again from rim brakes, so I
          paid the additional amount to upgrade to the disc brake version. That
          obviously required me to spend the extra money for a new disc brake
          compatible front fork from my local bike shop. Fortunately, I was able
          to get a good deal because I wanted to get a rigid fork, and at the time
          suspension forks seemed to be the craze so they had plenty of rigid
          stock forks laying around in the shop, which had been replaced by
          customer-requested suspension fork upgrades.



          To address some of your more specific questions...

          Q1) How are your Aerospoke wheels holding up?

          I would say my Aerospokes are holding up very well considering I have
          been riding on them for about ten years now, and under particularly
          extreme conditions at times, whether that is due to the weather or the
          cargo loads being carried. In my opinion the only noticeable wear is a
          slight fading from dark grey to a lighter grey, which appears similar to
          a layer of dust even after a thorough washing. I do not know for sure if
          that is due to sunlight bleaching, natural exposure to the atmosphere,
          or perhaps chain and dirt kick-up wearing down the factory-new outer
          most finished/polished layer.

          Q2) They're carbon fiber, right?

          I believe they are carbon fiber, but I seem to recall them technically
          referred to as poly-carbon fiber. I am no expert or chemist, so it might
          be the same exact thing. Of course there is a chance it is not. Perhaps
          Aerospoke uses a slightly different proprietary mixture than the typical
          carbon fiber when molding their wheels, so they can not officially refer
          to it as carbon fiber I do not know for sure.

          Q3) Carbon fiber, like aluminum, can break suddenly
          and catastrophically, so how are they doing on your bike?

          I think I pretty much answered this already, but the question does
          remind me of something in particular. It was an incident where I was
          moving my wife's furniture from her old apartment to mine back while I
          was still living in Brooklyn, NY. I had a number of items loaded up on
          that trip, but I remember one of them was a rocking chair. It was not
          the traditional type, but rather the kind with a static base and a
          floating seat, which I believe is referred to as a glider rather than a
          rocking chair. Anyway, that meant it was considerably heavier and more
          bulky than a traditional rocking chair.

          While riding to my place with the loaded bike, I was passing between a
          limo stuck at a red light and a parked black SUV. It was a relatively
          narrow space considering I was riding an Xtracycle with two
          wide-loaders, but from experience I knew I would fit. Unfortunately, I
          did not notice the SUV's front tire was jutting out slightly as if the
          wheel was turned to quickly pull out of the parking spot once the driver
          was back in his/her vehicle. I was therefore totally surprised when I
          felt a sudden harsh bounce against the rear right side of my bike. I
          went crashing down to the pavement, and at first I thought someone had
          deliberately kicked my bike, perhaps the driver of the SUV, who did not
          want to risk my bike scratching up his/her paint job.

          When I did not see anyone there I finally noticed the SUV's tire
          sticking out. My paranoid mindset about someone kicking my bike made me
          think the driver of the even more expensive limo would freak out at me.
          I was particularly vulnerable since it was awkward trying to get out
          from under my crashed loaded bike in such a narrow space. Luckily, the
          limo driver was genuinely more concerned at my well being, even when he
          could see a streak in the side of his paint job. It turned out the
          glider chair had bumped and streaked down against his limo, but since it
          was a wooden chair the streak was not serious and could be buffed out. I
          did not know that at the time, so I was more than apologetic and
          insistent of my intact good health, hoping the driver would not notice
          the mark on his limo and might prefer to flee the scene before any cops
          showed up. After that the driver got back in his car and drove off with
          a smile.

          At the time I was more shocked by the driver's positive attitude
          considering I was at fault and every driver I had ever encountered in
          any remotely similar situation would have flipped out. In any case, my
          disbelief in the pleasant reaction of the driver caused me to not pay
          attention to my own bicycle's condition or that of the load I was
          carrying. Soon enough though I noticed the glider chair was broken and
          my front wheel was slightly untrue in a spot. Needless to say the untrue
          Aerospoke worried me a great deal, but I could not do anything about it.
          I did a quick inspection of the wheel to see if it was dangerously
          cracked anywhere, but when I could not find any defects I just nervously
          continued on my way.

          Ever since then my front wheel has been slightly untrue, but no cracks
          or further complications have developed, and since I have disc brakes I
          do not have to worry about rim brakes rubbing an untrue wheel. Keep in
          mind that accident happened around 2005, and not only am I still using
          those same Aerospokes, but on those same wheels I have also carried
          numerous loads including that massive lumber haul in the "LunarLoad"
          photos. To get to the point of the long story, despite inflicting
          apparent damage on my Aerospoke during a collision involving a very
          loaded Xtracycle, the only outcome was what a picky cyclist might
          consider cosmetic. No one would ever notice the wheel being untrue
          unless they looked at it while spinning it in place.

          Q4) Aren't you still on the first set of wheels?
          ...and...
          Q5) If so, how many years have you been using them?

          I believe I also answered both of these questions already, but just to
          be thorough, technically I am still riding on my first rear Aeropsoke
          wheel, but I have been riding on a set of front and rear disc-brake
          compatible Aeropsoke wheels for about ten years now. Apart from one or
          two bicycles and the Xtracycle, I would say my Aerospokes have been one
          of my best investments when it comes to cycling gear. In fact, they have
          outlasted two FreeRadical frames and the Univega bike, which the
          FreeRadicals were mounted to.



          Come to think of it, I might be wrong about riding on my original rear
          Aerospoke wheel. There was one other "possible" problem with my
          Aerospokes. Again it was toward the end of a winter and also after
          having the Xtracycle attached to my bike. I started noticing chain
          skipping when I would really pedal hard. For instance, it might occur
          when I was loaded down and reaching a slight slope or it might happen
          when I was first starting out and needed to put some weight on the
          pedals. The problem seemed to get progressively worse, and actually got
          to the point where I would usually have to pedal in a lower gear or need
          to push off a curb or the ground with my feet to get up some speed
          before pedaling.

          When I finally went to my bike shop to fix the problem, they
          immediately suggested swapping out my gears and drive chain in case the
          skipping was due to normal wear and tear, which in my case was very
          likely. However, that did not entirely fix the problem, so they were not
          exactly sure what it could be. They had never worked on an Xtracycle
          before nor did they have much experience working on Aerospoke wheels,
          which went through as much winter usage as mine did. Since they had
          dealt with longer drive chains on tandem bicycles they suspected it was
          not the added chain length of the Xtracycle though, so they opened up
          the rear hub of the Aerospoke. This was a bit of a hassle because my
          bike shop had to special order a custom tool from Aerospoke to properly
          disassemble the hub. Luckily, they did not pass on the expense to me.

          Upon opening up the rear hub and separating it from the carbon fiber
          part of the wheel/rim, they noticed some moisture and grit inside. They
          could only guess grit along with moisture, possibly from condensation
          or snow/rain infiltration, had gotten trapped inside the hub. With the
          added strain of constant stop-n-go NYC traffic while being a cargo bike
          messenger, they suspected the moisture and grit may have slightly worn
          the carbon fiber part of the wheel enough to cause a tiny bit of play.
          There was also the chance the moisture was freezing and expanding enough
          to cause the play. Either way the slight play might have been enough to
          allow the chain to skip. Naturally, once the chain was susceptible to
          skipping it would wear itself and the gears down much faster than
          normal, thus compounding the problem.

          Unfortunately, I do not completely recall what the outcome of the
          situation was. I just remember my bike shop took care of it and did not
          pass on any charges from Aerospoke. I also remember my preference for
          the bike shop staff dealing with Aeropsoke instead of me so that I would
          not have to reveal my profession as a cargo bike messenger, which might
          void Aerospoke's warranty. I do think my bike shop did get some kind of
          replacement from Aerospoke, but I do not think it was a full wheel. If
          anything, it might have just been the hub or even some part inside the hub.

          I definitely recall being worried about having the same reoccurring
          problem with my rear Aerospoke in the upcoming winters. Fortunately, it
          has never came up again. For all I know the chain skipping problem might
          have just been my derailleur struggling with the chain tension of the
          Xtracycle's longer chain. It could have also been the choice of drive
          chain I was using at the time.

          There was a period of time several years ago when I was trying to use
          stainless steel Connex/Wippermann brand drive chains. My logic figured a
          stainless steel drive chain would be rust resistant, and therefore fit
          into my low maintenance ideal of a bike. Like I hoped, the stainless
          steel chain did not rust. Unfortunately, the stainless steel chain was
          just not strong enough to handle the torque requirements of a loaded
          Xtracycle. I found this out the hard way when chain links would break,
          but luckily I carried a Topeak Alien multi-tool, which had a chain
          breaker built into it. When a chain break would happen on the road I
          would pop out the snapped link, shorten the chain, and switch to a lower
          gear if necessary.

          Eventually, I realized there was a pattern of chain breakage when using
          the stainless steel chains, so I returned to using standard drive
          chains. Now the Stainless Steel chains are no longer on my bike, but I
          still use them. I thoroughly cleaned them all up, and recycled them into
          industrial looking jewelry. For a couple of years I actually wore a
          length of the stainless steel drive chain around my own neck as a
          choker. Since I could not be entirely sure whether the torque
          requirements of the Xtracycle was snapping my drive chain, I figured if
          my standard chain totally failed, then I would have a back up around my
          neck. I no longer wear a drive chain as a necklace, but since then I
          bought one or two new stainless steel drive chains to make more finished
          looking jewelry for girlfriends/wife. Other than the industrial
          aesthetic appeal, what I like about them is a person can even wear the
          jewelry in the shower, rain, or pool without it developing rust!

          In any case, I guess I can not say for sure whether I am on my first
          "set" of Aerospoke wheels. I know the front wheel was not my first
          wheel, but there is a slight chance the rear wheel or at least part of
          it is not my original rear Aerospoke wheel. Regardless, I still know I
          had my current Aeropsoke wheels for around ten years now. I am also
          quite certain my customarily lengthy e-mail most likely has more than
          covered your original inquiries, so I will stop contributing to any eye
          strain you may be experiencing from staring at a screen for so long.

          Best wishes and ride safe,
          _TONE_
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