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Troubleshooting Build Issues

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  • thirdraildesignlab
    Hey gang Two basic questions for Free Radical users that have ridden their builds for a long period of time... my build was completed last year but has about
    Message 1 of 17 , Jan 22, 2013
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      Hey gang
      Two basic questions for Free Radical users that have ridden their builds for a long period of time... my build was completed last year but has about 75 miles on it total, so it's young overall.

      1. Have you ever had your 'special nuts' loosen on their own? I admit that checking these nuts was not on my regular pre-ride checklist as it should have been, but I noted yesterday that one side had loosened and allowed the left side of the FR to lift up and out of the drops (given substantial high center of gravity weight loading at the time) rendering the bike not only unridable, but pretty much uncontrollable. No injury to me or my lil' passengers. But I was surprised that there was loosening of these bolts, given their critical importance, and even more so that it happened on one side of a largely symmetrical assembly (excepting of course the force of the drivetrain on the opposing side)

      2. When properly assembled (as mine was before it wasn't) for those of you that carry kids, I'm curious about your experiences with a squirrely ride. I have two peapod III's, transporting 24lb and 35lb children, frequently with little to nothing in the saddlebags. I find that starts and stops can be VERY unstable at the front end, with a good amount of handlebar wobble until I can get going. I believe this is mitigated somewhat by leading the Freeloaders with weight to lower the overall center of gravity of the back of the bike. My choice of wheel size may also play a role. I'm curious if others experience this.

      Overall the build has gone very well and I've used the bike for a number of cargo hauls as well as the family commuting. As I'm the only person I know personally with an Xtracycle, I'm looking for a basis for comparison.

      Cheers
      thom
    • Brian Livelsberger
      I ve had the special nuts come loose, now I check them regularly. Curious how others keep them tight. Squirrely? Absolutely! It took me a while to get used to
      Message 2 of 17 , Jan 22, 2013
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        I've had the special nuts come loose, now I check them regularly. Curious how others keep them tight.

        Squirrely? Absolutely! It took me a while to get used to it. I can handle it just fine now that I've adjusted, but I don't like it, and if I were doing it all over again a purpose-built single-piece frame (Yuba, EdgeRunner, BD) would be a must specifically for this reason. I have no regrets, as I enjoy the flexibility (no pun intended!) the custom build afforded, but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone without that same fascination.

        Regards,
        Brian. 


        On Tue, Jan 22, 2013 at 7:15 PM, thirdraildesignlab <thom@...> wrote:
         

        Hey gang
        Two basic questions for Free Radical users that have ridden their builds for a long period of time... my build was completed last year but has about 75 miles on it total, so it's young overall.

        1. Have you ever had your 'special nuts' loosen on their own? I admit that checking these nuts was not on my regular pre-ride checklist as it should have been, but I noted yesterday that one side had loosened and allowed the left side of the FR to lift up and out of the drops (given substantial high center of gravity weight loading at the time) rendering the bike not only unridable, but pretty much uncontrollable. No injury to me or my lil' passengers. But I was surprised that there was loosening of these bolts, given their critical importance, and even more so that it happened on one side of a largely symmetrical assembly (excepting of course the force of the drivetrain on the opposing side)

        2. When properly assembled (as mine was before it wasn't) for those of you that carry kids, I'm curious about your experiences with a squirrely ride. I have two peapod III's, transporting 24lb and 35lb children, frequently with little to nothing in the saddlebags. I find that starts and stops can be VERY unstable at the front end, with a good amount of handlebar wobble until I can get going. I believe this is mitigated somewhat by leading the Freeloaders with weight to lower the overall center of gravity of the back of the bike. My choice of wheel size may also play a role. I'm curious if others experience this.

        Overall the build has gone very well and I've used the bike for a number of cargo hauls as well as the family commuting. As I'm the only person I know personally with an Xtracycle, I'm looking for a basis for comparison.

        Cheers
        thom


      • kiltie_celt
        I use Locktite on all of the bolts when I assemble any bike. That being said, I ll be keeping an eye on these nuts and bolts on my own Xtracycle seeing as how
        Message 3 of 17 , Jan 22, 2013
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          I use Locktite on all of the bolts when I assemble any bike. That being said, I'll be keeping an eye on these nuts and bolts on my own Xtracycle seeing as how it's one of the critical points on the whole unit. It's a great platform for converting an unused mtb into a useful cargo bike, but it does have it's limitations. The whole thing is a bit on the flexy side, so any of the solid frame alternatives around bound to be stiffer.

          --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "thirdraildesignlab" wrote:
          >
          > Hey gang
          > Two basic questions for Free Radical users that have ridden their builds for a long period of time... my build was completed last year but has about 75 miles on it total, so it's young overall.
          >
          > 1. Have you ever had your 'special nuts' loosen on their own? I admit that checking these nuts was not on my regular pre-ride checklist as it should have been, but I noted yesterday that one side had loosened and allowed the left side of the FR to lift up and out of the drops (given substantial high center of gravity weight loading at the time) rendering the bike not only unridable, but pretty much uncontrollable. No injury to me or my lil' passengers. But I was surprised that there was loosening of these bolts, given their critical importance, and even more so that it happened on one side of a largely symmetrical assembly (excepting of course the force of the drivetrain on the opposing side)
          >
          > 2. When properly assembled (as mine was before it wasn't) for those of you that carry kids, I'm curious about your experiences with a squirrely ride. I have two peapod III's, transporting 24lb and 35lb children, frequently with little to nothing in the saddlebags. I find that starts and stops can be VERY unstable at the front end, with a good amount of handlebar wobble until I can get going. I believe this is mitigated somewhat by leading the Freeloaders with weight to lower the overall center of gravity of the back of the bike. My choice of wheel size may also play a role. I'm curious if others experience this.
          >
          > Overall the build has gone very well and I've used the bike for a number of cargo hauls as well as the family commuting. As I'm the only person I know personally with an Xtracycle, I'm looking for a basis for comparison.
          >
          > Cheers
          > thom
          >
        • kiltie_celt
          Oh, almost forgot - you mentioned something about wheel size? Are you using 700c wheels instead of a build based off of a more traditional 26 wheel size? The
          Message 4 of 17 , Jan 22, 2013
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            Oh, almost forgot - you mentioned something about wheel size? Are you using 700c wheels instead of a build based off of a more traditional 26" wheel size? The 700c wheels, if that's the case with your build, might make things a bit more flexy.


            --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "kiltie_celt" wrote:
            >
            > I use Locktite on all of the bolts when I assemble any bike. That being said, I'll be keeping an eye on these nuts and bolts on my own Xtracycle seeing as how it's one of the critical points on the whole unit. It's a great platform for converting an unused mtb into a useful cargo bike, but it does have it's limitations. The whole thing is a bit on the flexy side, so any of the solid frame alternatives around bound to be stiffer.
            >
            > --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "thirdraildesignlab" wrote:
            > >
            > > Hey gang
            > > Two basic questions for Free Radical users that have ridden their builds for a long period of time... my build was completed last year but has about 75 miles on it total, so it's young overall.
            > >
            > > 1. Have you ever had your 'special nuts' loosen on their own? I admit that checking these nuts was not on my regular pre-ride checklist as it should have been, but I noted yesterday that one side had loosened and allowed the left side of the FR to lift up and out of the drops (given substantial high center of gravity weight loading at the time) rendering the bike not only unridable, but pretty much uncontrollable. No injury to me or my lil' passengers. But I was surprised that there was loosening of these bolts, given their critical importance, and even more so that it happened on one side of a largely symmetrical assembly (excepting of course the force of the drivetrain on the opposing side)
            > >
            > > 2. When properly assembled (as mine was before it wasn't) for those of you that carry kids, I'm curious about your experiences with a squirrely ride. I have two peapod III's, transporting 24lb and 35lb children, frequently with little to nothing in the saddlebags. I find that starts and stops can be VERY unstable at the front end, with a good amount of handlebar wobble until I can get going. I believe this is mitigated somewhat by leading the Freeloaders with weight to lower the overall center of gravity of the back of the bike. My choice of wheel size may also play a role. I'm curious if others experience this.
            > >
            > > Overall the build has gone very well and I've used the bike for a number of cargo hauls as well as the family commuting. As I'm the only person I know personally with an Xtracycle, I'm looking for a basis for comparison.
            > >
            > > Cheers
            > > thom
            > >
            >
          • anthonyeberger
            You guys are making me nervous now! I ll have to check both of mine now but to date haven t had an issue ever. I ve moved my Xtra frame to three different
            Message 5 of 17 , Jan 23, 2013
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              You guys are making me nervous now! I'll have to check both of mine now but to date haven't had an issue ever. I've moved my Xtra frame to three different bikes too.

              What type of bike is this on? I've got one built as a StumpJumper with the original suspension fork and the other a old Mixte frame mated to a 26 inch Alfine 8 rear and a 700c front. The rest of the Mixte sans handlebars is stock. Neither of these bikes feel unstable at start up unless heavily loaded (like 160lbs passenger loaded). I pick up my little girl daily from school on it. She's 7 and I'm unsure of her weight but she's rarely sitting still. I've even seen her with her feet up and legs crossed a few times. I've got a custom deck on my Xtra (the Mixte is for the wife) with a back rest so she can relax.

              We did Cranksgiving this year on both Xtras. By we, I mean a buddy and I rode one Xtra until the batteries ran low and then swapped to the other to save weight. With a ton of groceries and a 160lbs passenger it did get a bit unstable at slow speeds but I think we were pushing the limit of the bikes.

              Off to check my "special nuts" :)

              Tony B.
              Milwaukee WI

              --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "thirdraildesignlab" wrote:
              >
              > Hey gang
              > Two basic questions for Free Radical users that have ridden their builds for a long period of time... my build was completed last year but has about 75 miles on it total, so it's young overall.
              >
              > 1. Have you ever had your 'special nuts' loosen on their own? I admit that checking these nuts was not on my regular pre-ride checklist as it should have been, but I noted yesterday that one side had loosened and allowed the left side of the FR to lift up and out of the drops (given substantial high center of gravity weight loading at the time) rendering the bike not only unridable, but pretty much uncontrollable. No injury to me or my lil' passengers. But I was surprised that there was loosening of these bolts, given their critical importance, and even more so that it happened on one side of a largely symmetrical assembly (excepting of course the force of the drivetrain on the opposing side)
              >
              > 2. When properly assembled (as mine was before it wasn't) for those of you that carry kids, I'm curious about your experiences with a squirrely ride. I have two peapod III's, transporting 24lb and 35lb children, frequently with little to nothing in the saddlebags. I find that starts and stops can be VERY unstable at the front end, with a good amount of handlebar wobble until I can get going. I believe this is mitigated somewhat by leading the Freeloaders with weight to lower the overall center of gravity of the back of the bike. My choice of wheel size may also play a role. I'm curious if others experience this.
              >
              > Overall the build has gone very well and I've used the bike for a number of cargo hauls as well as the family commuting. As I'm the only person I know personally with an Xtracycle, I'm looking for a basis for comparison.
              >
              > Cheers
              > thom
              >
            • David Dannenberg
              A Bid Dummy rides pretty comfortably with an adult sitting on the back, albeit I have carried adults more in the 125-170lb range. David Dannenberg
              Message 6 of 17 , Jan 23, 2013
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                A Bid Dummy rides pretty comfortably with an adult sitting on the back, albeit I have carried adults more in the 125-170lb range.

                David Dannenberg
              • MJ
                Hey Thom, The X has been a wonderful addition to our family for 9 years now, and I can share a couple of tips about hauling kids. My boys are now 8 and 5, and
                Message 7 of 17 , Jan 23, 2013
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                  Hey Thom,

                  The X has been a wonderful addition to our family for 9 years now, and I can share a couple of tips about hauling kids. My boys are now 8 and 5, and their combined weight had me huffing and puffing as I biked them 6 miles to school each morning last fall. On the plus side, I turned in a great time in a century ride I did in early October. Thanks kids!

                  Given the high center of gravity and the likelihood that the guys will be even heavier this spring, I've become concerned about the possibility of low speed crashes. It's when we're stopping and starting that the X is most unstable, as you seem to be experiencing as well.

                  This spring, I plan to get a Burley Piccolo, attach it to the X and ask the heaviest kid to pedal along with me. In addition to lowering the center of gravity, I should get a small boost from his workout. The Piccolo attaches to the X with enough room to spare for the smaller guy. It's a solution that just came to me recently, so I thought I'd share it.

                  The problem with high center of gravity/kid hauling must be fairly widespread: the new X's have small wheels in the back to lower the center of gravity plus rollbars for rear seat passengers. Nice additions, but we plan to get a few more years out of our original X before moving on to another.

                  Good luck!


                  --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "thirdraildesignlab" wrote:
                  >
                  > Hey gang
                  > Two basic questions for Free Radical users that have ridden their builds for a long period of time... my build was completed last year but has about 75 miles on it total, so it's young overall.
                  >
                  > 1. Have you ever had your 'special nuts' loosen on their own? I admit that checking these nuts was not on my regular pre-ride checklist as it should have been, but I noted yesterday that one side had loosened and allowed the left side of the FR to lift up and out of the drops (given substantial high center of gravity weight loading at the time) rendering the bike not only unridable, but pretty much uncontrollable. No injury to me or my lil' passengers. But I was surprised that there was loosening of these bolts, given their critical importance, and even more so that it happened on one side of a largely symmetrical assembly (excepting of course the force of the drivetrain on the opposing side)
                  >
                  > 2. When properly assembled (as mine was before it wasn't) for those of you that carry kids, I'm curious about your experiences with a squirrely ride. I have two peapod III's, transporting 24lb and 35lb children, frequently with little to nothing in the saddlebags. I find that starts and stops can be VERY unstable at the front end, with a good amount of handlebar wobble until I can get going. I believe this is mitigated somewhat by leading the Freeloaders with weight to lower the overall center of gravity of the back of the bike. My choice of wheel size may also play a role. I'm curious if others experience this.
                  >
                  > Overall the build has gone very well and I've used the bike for a number of cargo hauls as well as the family commuting. As I'm the only person I know personally with an Xtracycle, I'm looking for a basis for comparison.
                  >
                  > Cheers
                  > thom
                  >
                • Pete B
                  Never had a problem with the special nuts loosening. I did convert them over to quick release skewers (from spare seatpost clamps) early on though. Did have
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jan 24, 2013
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                    Never had a problem with the "special nuts" loosening. I did convert them over to quick release skewers (from spare seatpost clamps) early on though.

                    Did have a problem with the long bolt through the front tonque/FAP moving but that's another story...


                    On 23 January 2013 11:15, thirdraildesignlab <thom@...> wrote:


                    1. Have you ever had your 'special nuts' loosen on their own? I admit that checking these nuts was not on my regular pre-ride checklist as it should have been, but I noted yesterday that one side had loosened and allowed the left side of the FR to lift up and out of the drops (given substantial high center of gravity weight loading at the time) rendering the bike not only unridable, but pretty much uncontrollable. No injury to me or my lil' passengers. But I was surprised that there was loosening of these bolts, given their critical importance, and even more so that it happened on one side of a largely symmetrical assembly (excepting of course the force of the drivetrain on the opposing side)



                    'The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilised community against his will, is to prevent harm to others. He cannot rightfully be compelled for his own good, or because, in the opinion of others, it would be wise, or even right. These are good reasons for persuading him, but not for compelling him.' : John Stuart Mill
                  • Don Thompson
                    I ve had that same issue with the long bolt, FAP moving. I adjust VERY tight, but it still rotates counter clockwise after a week of riding. It never
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jan 26, 2013
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                      I've had that same issue with the long bolt, FAP moving.  I adjust VERY tight, but it still rotates counter clockwise after a week of riding.  It never loosens, but just moves.  Did you fix this problem on yours?
                    • Pete B
                      For the FAP rotation, I stuck a thicker piece of scrap nylon carpet to the plate. That and a nylock with spring washer seemed to stop the problem. The only
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jan 28, 2013
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                        For the FAP rotation, I stuck a thicker piece of scrap nylon carpet to the plate. 
                        That and a nylock with spring washer seemed to stop the problem.

                        'The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilised community against his will, is to prevent harm to others. He cannot rightfully be compelled for his own good, or because, in the opinion of others, it would be wise, or even right. These are good reasons for persuading him, but not for compelling him.' : John Stuart Mill


                        On 27 January 2013 14:38, Don Thompson <donthompsonjr@...> wrote:
                         

                        I've had that same issue with the long bolt, FAP moving.  I adjust VERY tight, but it still rotates counter clockwise after a week of riding.  It never loosens, but just moves.  Did you fix this problem on yours?


                      • thirdraildesignlab
                        The evolution of this project was largely based on access issues to my bike shop/workspace area, which is through two doors perpendicular to each other, each
                        Message 11 of 17 , Feb 1, 2013
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                          The evolution of this project was largely based on access issues to my bike shop/workspace area, which is through two doors perpendicular to each other, each 3'-0" wide... hard to thread oblong objects through this passageway. My initial calculations suggested that a fixed-frame design like a Yuba or similar would be too wide at the rear to accommodate this navigation, thanks to the built in steps in the frame. I REALLY wanted to do a bikefiet type project, but thats for another time and another home. Anyway, that's how I landed on the Xtracycle. I started with it, considered others, returned to it.

                          Good to hear I'm not the only one with a loose 'special nut'. I'm kicking myself for not checking them before. Being under the freeloaders it was out of sight out of mind, which is really no excuse for a 30+ year experience rider who's built 11 bikes or so. Ridiculous. I blame sleep deprivation from the second child...

                          Thanks Brian!

                          --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, Brian Livelsberger wrote:
                          >
                          > I've had the special nuts come loose, now I check them regularly. Curious
                          > how others keep them tight.
                          >
                          > Squirrely? Absolutely! It took me a while to get used to it. I can handle
                          > it just fine now that I've adjusted, but I don't like it, and if I were
                          > doing it all over again a purpose-built single-piece frame (Yuba,
                          > EdgeRunner, BD) would be a must specifically for this reason. I have no
                          > regrets, as I enjoy the flexibility (no pun intended!) the custom build
                          > afforded, but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone without that same
                          > fascination.
                          >
                          > Regards,
                          > Brian.
                        • thirdraildesignlab
                          Thanks Kiltie I can t believe I didn t loctite those. I did so on the FAP bolt, though I used a custom FAP assembly so that whole thing is more robust.
                          Message 12 of 17 , Feb 1, 2013
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                            Thanks Kiltie
                            I can't believe I didn't loctite those. I did so on the FAP bolt, though I used a custom FAP assembly so that whole thing is more robust. Actually, given the fail at the rear of the bike, that SuperFAP did it's job!!!

                            --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "kiltie_celt" wrote:
                            >
                            > I use Locktite on all of the bolts when I assemble any bike. That being said, I'll be keeping an eye on these nuts and bolts on my own Xtracycle seeing as how it's one of the critical points on the whole unit. It's a great platform for converting an unused mtb into a useful cargo bike, but it does have it's limitations. The whole thing is a bit on the flexy side, so any of the solid frame alternatives around bound to be stiffer.
                            >
                            > --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "thirdraildesignlab" wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Hey gang
                            > > Two basic questions for Free Radical users that have ridden their builds for a long period of time... my build was completed last year but has about 75 miles on it total, so it's young overall.
                            > >
                            > > 1. Have you ever had your 'special nuts' loosen on their own? I admit that checking these nuts was not on my regular pre-ride checklist as it should have been, but I noted yesterday that one side had loosened and allowed the left side of the FR to lift up and out of the drops (given substantial high center of gravity weight loading at the time) rendering the bike not only unridable, but pretty much uncontrollable. No injury to me or my lil' passengers. But I was surprised that there was loosening of these bolts, given their critical importance, and even more so that it happened on one side of a largely symmetrical assembly (excepting of course the force of the drivetrain on the opposing side)
                            > >
                            > > 2. When properly assembled (as mine was before it wasn't) for those of you that carry kids, I'm curious about your experiences with a squirrely ride. I have two peapod III's, transporting 24lb and 35lb children, frequently with little to nothing in the saddlebags. I find that starts and stops can be VERY unstable at the front end, with a good amount of handlebar wobble until I can get going. I believe this is mitigated somewhat by leading the Freeloaders with weight to lower the overall center of gravity of the back of the bike. My choice of wheel size may also play a role. I'm curious if others experience this.
                            > >
                            > > Overall the build has gone very well and I've used the bike for a number of cargo hauls as well as the family commuting. As I'm the only person I know personally with an Xtracycle, I'm looking for a basis for comparison.
                            > >
                            > > Cheers
                            > > thom
                            > >
                            >
                          • thirdraildesignlab
                            Yes, this build is large, and I know that contributes to it. Absolutely. I was curious as to how squirrely normal 26 builds felt for folks, just as a basis
                            Message 13 of 17 , Feb 1, 2013
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                              Yes, this build is large, and I know that contributes to it. Absolutely. I was curious as to how squirrely normal 26" builds felt for folks, just as a basis for comparison. Subjectively, anyway...
                              thanks Kiltie

                              --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "kiltie_celt" wrote:
                              >
                              > Oh, almost forgot - you mentioned something about wheel size? Are you using 700c wheels instead of a build based off of a more traditional 26" wheel size? The 700c wheels, if that's the case with your build, might make things a bit more flexy.
                              >
                              >
                            • thirdraildesignlab
                              MJ, I m right there with ya. Or will be, in some years time. I have a Burley trailer, though I ve never attached it to the Xtracycle. I have a Piccolo, but my
                              Message 14 of 17 , Feb 1, 2013
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                                MJ, I'm right there with ya. Or will be, in some years time.
                                I have a Burley trailer, though I've never attached it to the Xtracycle. I have a Piccolo, but my eldest is still not yet 4, so we're a ways off. I do find that if I weight down the Freeloaders with copious quantities of sundries, lowering the center of gravity helps a lot.
                                The instability is really felt at the bars. The steerer becoming a pivot point. Well, BEING a pivot point, but becoming the hardest to manhandle into staying stable at slow speeds and stops. I actually originally put some touring bars with some sweep back to make the overall dimension of the bike narrower (my aforementioned bike access issue) but switched back to long straight bars to give myself a wider triangle.

                                --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "MJ" wrote:
                                >
                                > Hey Thom,
                                >
                                > The X has been a wonderful addition to our family for 9 years now, and I can share a couple of tips about hauling kids. My boys are now 8 and 5, and their combined weight had me huffing and puffing as I biked them 6 miles to school each morning last fall. On the plus side, I turned in a great time in a century ride I did in early October. Thanks kids!
                                >
                                > Given the high center of gravity and the likelihood that the guys will be even heavier this spring, I've become concerned about the possibility of low speed crashes. It's when we're stopping and starting that the X is most unstable, as you seem to be experiencing as well.
                                >
                                > This spring, I plan to get a Burley Piccolo, attach it to the X and ask the heaviest kid to pedal along with me. In addition to lowering the center of gravity, I should get a small boost from his workout. The Piccolo attaches to the X with enough room to spare for the smaller guy. It's a solution that just came to me recently, so I thought I'd share it.
                                >
                                > The problem with high center of gravity/kid hauling must be fairly widespread: the new X's have small wheels in the back to lower the center of gravity plus rollbars for rear seat passengers. Nice additions, but we plan to get a few more years out of our original X before moving on to another.
                                >
                                > Good luck!
                                >
                                >
                              • thirdraildesignlab
                                Ha, my FAP bolt was rock solid! But it s been customized considerably, or rather, the FAP itself.
                                Message 15 of 17 , Feb 1, 2013
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                                  Ha, my FAP bolt was rock solid! But it's been customized considerably, or rather, the FAP itself.

                                  --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, Pete B wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Never had a problem with the "special nuts" loosening. I did convert them
                                  > over to quick release skewers (from spare seatpost clamps) early on though.
                                  >
                                  > Did have a problem with the long bolt through the front tonque/FAP moving
                                  > but that's another story...
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > On 23 January 2013 11:15, thirdraildesignlab wrote:
                                  >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > 1. Have you ever had your 'special nuts' loosen on their own? I admit that
                                  > > checking these nuts was not on my regular pre-ride checklist as it should
                                  > > have been, but I noted yesterday that one side had loosened and allowed the
                                  > > left side of the FR to lift up and out of the drops (given substantial high
                                  > > center of gravity weight loading at the time) rendering the bike not only
                                  > > unridable, but pretty much uncontrollable. No injury to me or my lil'
                                  > > passengers. But I was surprised that there was loosening of these bolts,
                                  > > given their critical importance, and even more so that it happened on one
                                  > > side of a largely symmetrical assembly (excepting of course the force of
                                  > > the drivetrain on the opposing side)
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > 'The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any
                                  > member of a civilised community against his will, is to prevent harm to
                                  > others. He cannot rightfully be compelled for his own good, or because, in
                                  > the opinion of others, it would be wise, or even right. These are good
                                  > reasons for persuading him, but not for compelling him.' : John Stuart Mill
                                  >
                                • thirdraildesignlab
                                  Mine is a custom trapezoidal section of thick block aluminum top and bottom with more retaining bolts across its surface. Great investment! But in my case, due
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Feb 1, 2013
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                                    Mine is a custom trapezoidal section of thick block aluminum top and bottom with more retaining bolts across its surface. Great investment! But in my case, due to the frame size, it was necessary.

                                    --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, Pete B wrote:
                                    >
                                    > For the FAP rotation, I stuck a thicker piece of scrap nylon carpet to the
                                    > plate.
                                    > That and a nylock with spring washer seemed to stop the problem.
                                    >
                                    > 'The only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any
                                    > member of a civilised community against his will, is to prevent harm to
                                    > others. He cannot rightfully be compelled for his own good, or because, in
                                    > the opinion of others, it would be wise, or even right. These are good
                                    > reasons for persuading him, but not for compelling him.' : John Stuart Mill
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > On 27 January 2013 14:38, Don Thompson wrote:
                                    >
                                    > > **
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    > > I've had that same issue with the long bolt, FAP moving. I adjust VERY
                                    > > tight, but it still rotates counter clockwise after a week of riding. It
                                    > > never loosens, but just moves. Did you fix this problem on yours?
                                    > >
                                    > >
                                    >
                                  • thirdraildesignlab
                                    SO, I m taking the bike into my LBS that helped with some of the final details on this build and the customization, this saturday, so assuming the bike frame
                                    Message 17 of 17 , Feb 1, 2013
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      SO, I'm taking the bike into my LBS that helped with some of the final details on this build and the customization, this saturday, so assuming the bike frame hasn't deformed or cracked under the torsional stress, I should be back in action next week. When it comes to my kids I want a professional to review such things. It occurs to me that I never posted the build photos and notes from this project, so I will do so after this is fixed. Overall it's been an awesome bike, with compromises that were not unexpected.

                                      --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "thirdraildesignlab" wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Hey gang
                                      > Two basic questions for Free Radical users that have ridden their builds for a long period of time... my build was completed last year but has about 75 miles on it total, so it's young overall.
                                      >
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