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Re: [rootsradicals] Carrying a ladder

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  • Mike
    http://www.lowes.com/pd_78463-287-MT-22_0__?productId=1101083&Ntt=werner+folding+22%27+ladder&pl=1¤tURL=%3FNtt%3Dwerner%2Bfolding%2B22%2527%2Bladder&face
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 12, 2012
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      http://www.lowes.com/pd_78463-287-MT-22_0__?productId=1101083&Ntt=werner+folding+22%27+ladder&pl=1&currentURL=%3FNtt%3Dwerner%2Bfolding%2B22%2527%2Bladder&facetInfo=

      Here's a pic and description, sorry for commercial link. I should have said I was more worried about the unbalanced load than the length as it folds up relatively small for a  ladder. Thank you all for your replies.
       
      Mike


      From: Tone <tone@...>
      To: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 5:36 PM
      Subject: RE: [rootsradicals] Carrying a ladder

       
      I have carried only a six foot ladder, but I have carried 12’ long planks
      of lumber from Home Depot or Lowes. I think they were 1”x10”s and several
      of them at a time on a few separate occasions. Of course, I have two wide
      loaders and two long loaders! Having at least one of each of those is
      essential when carrying something long.

      As someone pointed out, being able to haul a counter load on the other
      side of the bike helps immensely to avoid oscillation. I always carry
      with me a 3’ kryptonite chain, and usually I also have a large messenger
      bag of gear and tools everywhere I bike. Therefore, if I ever haul an
      unbalanced load I always try to balance out my load with my bag and chain
      as a counter-weight.

      If you have two pairs of wide loaders and long loaders, you can obviously
      counter balance half your load with the other half of the load. As
      David’s photos show, the split long load will come together in the back
      and spread toward the front. This becomes very exaggerated the longer
      your load is. With 12’ long items they will touch several feet behind
      your bike, so you might want to bring something bright and colorful to
      hang and trail off the end of the load. I usually also clipped my
      blinking red light on the back. Binding the load as much as possible is
      extremely helpful as well. If you have loose boards of wood, then
      anything that helps tighten it up as one moving mass is helpful,
      otherwise bumps in the road might shift them around and sway you along
      your way.

      With a dually-split long 12’ load, you will also notice how wide your
      moving mass will become. It can get to the point where you really will
      genuinely have to take up the space of a full car lane. Again, streamers
      hanging from your protruding sides will help non-expectant drivers from
      colliding with your load. You definitely do NOT want to even get slightly
      bumped while hauling a heavy bulky moving load. Once I was riding by a
      parallel parked car, which had its front driver-side wheel turned out so
      it would be easier to drive out of the parking space. Unfortunately it
      was sticking out just enough and I misjudged the space I needed to pass
      by. I happened to be moving my future wife’s stuff to my own apartment,
      and the load included a wooden rocking chair. When my wide loader just
      bumped into that tire I got bounced violently over and crashed on the
      other side. The chair cracked slightly, and my front Aerospoke carbon
      fiber wheel, which never needs truing, became just a bit out of true.
      Fortunately, I use disc brakes, so rubbing rim brakes were never a worry.

      Mike, in your own case of carrying the ladder, I would consider a couple
      of options. First off though, you said it was a 20’ folding ladder. Did
      you mean it was a collapsing ladder because a typical A-frame expandable
      ladder would still be around 20’ when folded? Personally, I am not sure
      how I would ever feel about carrying something that is 20’ long. 8’ is
      totally fine, and 10’ is certainly manageable, but I think 12’ is my
      comfort limit. I have hauled some serious loads too, so I have some first
      hand experience. Something that is 20’ would most likely extend
      diagonally through a whole lane of traffic and might “poke” into the
      space of at least one adjoining lane.
      With not being completely clear on what kind of ladder it is, have you
      ever considered dismantling it so that it can be self-balanced on either
      side of your bike? I certainly have hauled unbalanced loads on frequent
      numerous occasions, but any ladder, which is 20’ would have considerable
      weight as well as be awkwardly bulky. Just to give you some perspective,
      I use to be a cargo bike messenger in NYC, and regularly kept only one
      wide-loader and long-loader installed during my work days so I could
      still maneuver through the dense traffic. I usually kept the other set
      tucked in the other side’s Free-loaders as a back up for extra carrying
      capacity, but generally I always hauled everything on the non-drive-chain
      side. A 6’-8’ ladder would be no big deal, but a twenty footer is
      something entirely different.
      If the ladder you are talking about does happen to be one of those
      expandable A-frame style ladders, maybe you could actually open it up
      while having it placed on your bike. In this position the ladder would be
      down on its side with its top facing the rear and each of it two foot
      ends spread out in front and to the sides of your bike. Regardless
      though, 20’ is twenty long feet. At least it is aluminum and not an old
      fashioned wooden ladder because then it would be so much heavier. If you
      can share photos of the type of ladder you have, even if it is just a
      link to an on-line store’s web site with a similar styled ladder, then I
      could provide much better advice.

      Ride Safe,
      _TONE_



    • dr2chase@mac.com
      ... 47 lbs should not be a problem if you have a wideloader. If you re worried about balance, get 4 gallon jugs, fill them with water, ride over 2+2, ride
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 12, 2012
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        On 2012-12-12, at 9:27 PM, Mike <kest918@...> wrote:

        >
        > http://www.lowes.com/pd_78463-287-MT-22_0__?productId=1101083&Ntt=werner+folding+22%27+ladder&pl=1¤tURL=%3FNtt%3Dwerner%2Bfolding%2B22%2527%2Bladder&facetInfo=
        >
        > Here's a pic and description, sorry for commercial link. I should have said I was more worried about the unbalanced load than the length as it folds up relatively small for a ladder. Thank you all for your replies.

        47 lbs should not be a problem if you have a wideloader. If you're worried about balance, get 4 gallon jugs, fill them with water, ride over 2+2, ride home 4+ladder.

        Hard to say whether you should use a longloader or not with this; the longloader kicks it out to the side, which gives it more moment-arm down, but sticking 2-3 feet of ladder out the back is also bad for handling.

        If you lack a longloader, just get a lightweight lump of something (empty 5 gallon bucket) to use as a standoff, and cinch it down tight.

        David
      • Tone
        Mike, I have almost the same exact style ladder. My ladder’s brand name might be different, but it definitely looks pretty identical. Personally I would
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 15, 2012
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          Mike,

          I have almost the same exact style ladder. My ladder’s brand name might
          be different, but it definitely looks pretty identical. Personally I
          would probably just try riding with it as an unbalanced load all on one
          side. As I said before, I do carry a 3’ chain as a lock and a messenger
          bag of gear, so I would at least offset the weight a little on the other
          side. The unbalanced load might result in me leaning slightly to one side
          to compensate for the bike’s desire to drift or lean in the direction of
          the weight, but I believe it is manageable.

          Several years ago I picked up an artificial Xmas tree from a manufacturer
          in New Jersey. The box with the three or so dismantled sections was
          almost the size of a gun safe. It weighed about eighty pounds! I did
          manage to tie it off on one side. Fortunately, I also had to buy their 30
          pound base for the tree, so that along with my chain and gear bag helped
          compensate for the imbalance. Admittedly, it was a slow ride back to
          Brooklyn. Instead of taking the PATH train, which would involves lots of
          steps, escalators, and/or tight spaced elevators we decided to take a
          ferry across the Hudson River to Manhattan. It was about two or three
          times the cost, but not having to deal with unloading the box and messing
          with stairs was a life saver. The scenery and fresh air of the bay also
          made it so much more pleasant. After land fall my biggest obstacle
          getting home was going up the arch of one of the East River bridges.

          Back to the topic of your specific ladder load, I do think you have
          another totally reasonable option, which avoids most of the imbalance
          issues. If your ladder is truly like mine, then you can separate the two
          “A” frame sections from each other. According to the Lowes description
          that would be the two “scaffold bases”, as if you intended to rest a
          plank of wood across the two. With those two segments separated and kept
          shut (not folded open like an “A”) you should not have much problem
          putting one on each side. Just make sure to strap it all in good. I would
          imagine having long loaders would help, but I do not think it would be
          absolutely necessary.

          Ride safe,
          _TONE_
        • kest918@yahoo.com
          Thanks, Tone as usual your replies are well thought out and articulated. Mine does not separate but would make life a lot easier if it did. I ve strapped this
          Message 4 of 10 , Dec 15, 2012
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            Thanks, Tone as usual your replies are well thought out and articulated. Mine does not separate but would make life a lot easier if it did. I've strapped this thing on and rolled around the parking lot with it but was hesitant to enter the roadway without a little more experience with it strapped on. Now the second part of my problem is that was some months ago and I've since sold my Big Dummy and am in the process of building an xtracycle. Backwards I know but I needed the cash. So now I have a little more oscillation to deal with. 
             Presently I am in the planning stages of the build. I have an early 90's trek 950 to use as my donor bike and my old Free Rad frame from before the BD. I'm kicking around some ideas to build a "contractor's van" to use for my handyman side work. I don't have vracks or freeloaders and I don't know that I will purchase any just yet. I do have the wideloaders and a homemade long loader. Since most of what I carry is painting and drywall tools I can put those inside milk crates on the other side of the ladder. I'm working out a way to attach a tool box using the h rack ports. This will enable me to store any bungees and locks etc. the things I normally kept in the pockets of my freeloaders. It will also give me a way to utilize the long loader.
             It's a work in progress but I'm having fun with the challenge. Again, thank you all for the replies! Mike

            On Dec 15, 2012, at 1:39 PM, "Tone" <tone@...> wrote:

             

            Mike,

            I have almost the same exact style ladder. My ladder’s brand name might
            be different, but it definitely looks pretty identical. Personally I
            would probably just try riding with it as an unbalanced load all on one
            side. As I said before, I do carry a 3’ chain as a lock and a messenger
            bag of gear, so I would at least offset the weight a little on the other
            side. The unbalanced load might result in me leaning slightly to one side
            to compensate for the bike’s desire to drift or lean in the direction of
            the weight, but I believe it is manageable.

            Several years ago I picked up an artificial Xmas tree from a manufacturer
            in New Jersey. The box with the three or so dismantled sections was
            almost the size of a gun safe. It weighed about eighty pounds! I did
            manage to tie it off on one side. Fortunately, I also had to buy their 30
            pound base for the tree, so that along with my chain and gear bag helped
            compensate for the imbalance. Admittedly, it was a slow ride back to
            Brooklyn. Instead of taking the PATH train, which would involves lots of
            steps, escalators, and/or tight spaced elevators we decided to take a
            ferry across the Hudson River to Manhattan. It was about two or three
            times the cost, but not having to deal with unloading the box and messing
            with stairs was a life saver. The scenery and fresh air of the bay also
            made it so much more pleasant. After land fall my biggest obstacle
            getting home was going up the arch of one of the East River bridges.

            Back to the topic of your specific ladder load, I do think you have
            another totally reasonable option, which avoids most of the imbalance
            issues. If your ladder is truly like mine, then you can separate the two
            “A” frame sections from each other. According to the Lowes description
            that would be the two “scaffold bases”, as if you intended to rest a
            plank of wood across the two. With those two segments separated and kept
            shut (not folded open like an “A”) you should not have much problem
            putting one on each side. Just make sure to strap it all in good. I would
            imagine having long loaders would help, but I do not think it would be
            absolutely necessary.

            Ride safe,
            _TONE_

          • rlwieneke
            I was considering building a sidecar wheel for my folding wideloader. It would take the weight from that side out of your balancing with the ladder and the
            Message 5 of 10 , Dec 15, 2012
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              I was considering building a sidecar wheel for my folding wideloader. It would take the weight from that side out of your balancing with the ladder and the wideloader would not scrape the ground.

              --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, kest918@... wrote:
              >
              > Thanks, Tone as usual your replies are well thought out and articulated. Mine does not separate but would make life a lot easier if it did. I've strapped this thing on and rolled around the parking lot with it but was hesitant to enter the roadway without a little more experience with it strapped on. Now the second part of my problem is that was some months ago and I've since sold my Big Dummy and am in the process of building an xtracycle. Backwards I know but I needed the cash. So now I have a little more oscillation to deal with.
              > Presently I am in the planning stages of the build. I have an early 90's trek 950 to use as my donor bike and my old Free Rad frame from before the BD. I'm kicking around some ideas to build a "contractor's van" to use for my handyman side work. I don't have vracks or freeloaders and I don't know that I will purchase any just yet. I do have the wideloaders and a homemade long loader. Since most of what I carry is painting and drywall tools I can put those inside milk crates on the other side of the ladder. I'm working out a way to attach a tool box using the h rack ports. This will enable me to store any bungees and locks etc. the things I normally kept in the pockets of my freeloaders. It will also give me a way to utilize the long loader.
              > It's a work in progress but I'm having fun with the challenge. Again, thank you all for the replies! Mike
              >
              > On Dec 15, 2012, at 1:39 PM, "Tone" <tone@...> wrote:
              >
              > > Mike,
              > >
              > > I have almost the same exact style ladder. My ladder’s brand name might
              > > be different, but it definitely looks pretty identical. Personally I
              > > would probably just try riding with it as an unbalanced load all on one
              > > side. As I said before, I do carry a 3’ chain as a lock and a messenger
              > > bag of gear, so I would at least offset the weight a little on the other
              > > side. The unbalanced load might result in me leaning slightly to one side
              > > to compensate for the bike’s desire to drift or lean in the direction of
              > > the weight, but I believe it is manageable.
              > >
              > > Several years ago I picked up an artificial Xmas tree from a manufacturer
              > > in New Jersey. The box with the three or so dismantled sections was
              > > almost the size of a gun safe. It weighed about eighty pounds! I did
              > > manage to tie it off on one side. Fortunately, I also had to buy their 30
              > > pound base for the tree, so that along with my chain and gear bag helped
              > > compensate for the imbalance. Admittedly, it was a slow ride back to
              > > Brooklyn. Instead of taking the PATH train, which would involves lots of
              > > steps, escalators, and/or tight spaced elevators we decided to take a
              > > ferry across the Hudson River to Manhattan. It was about two or three
              > > times the cost, but not having to deal with unloading the box and messing
              > > with stairs was a life saver. The scenery and fresh air of the bay also
              > > made it so much more pleasant. After land fall my biggest obstacle
              > > getting home was going up the arch of one of the East River bridges.
              > >
              > > Back to the topic of your specific ladder load, I do think you have
              > > another totally reasonable option, which avoids most of the imbalance
              > > issues. If your ladder is truly like mine, then you can separate the two
              > > “A” frame sections from each other. According to the Lowes description
              > > that would be the two “scaffold bases”, as if you intended to rest a
              > > plank of wood across the two. With those two segments separated and kept
              > > shut (not folded open like an “A”) you should not have much problem
              > > putting one on each side. Just make sure to strap it all in good. I would
              > > imagine having long loaders would help, but I do not think it would be
              > > absolutely necessary.
              > >
              > > Ride safe,
              > > _TONE_
              > >
              > >
              >
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