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Re: Newbie 1st post: Think the EdgeRunner will be a game changer for

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  • Thaddeus Block
    Hi Kevin, The big dummy is a really well built frame, so its appealing in that regard. I am also very tall, so was happy to see that surly makes an XL big
    Message 1 of 12 , Oct 17, 2012
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      Hi Kevin,
       
      The big dummy is a really well built frame, so its appealing in that regard.  I am also very tall, so was happy to see that surly makes an XL big dummy.  I think its the only cargo bike that comes in so many sizes.  I'm not a fan of 'one size fits all' frames.....
       
      The down side for big dummy is that the frame alone is about $950.  But for a high quality surly built frame I plan to keep for a long time, its a deal.
       
      For hub drive motors, there are two types. 
       
      The classic type is direct drive motors, where the hub is essentially the motor.  these direct drive hubs are supposedly very durable, but they have a modest amount of drag (read:  no true freewheel) and they are incredibly large and heavy.
       
      There are geared hub motors, which is what I have.  This is a hub that has a small motor which drives the hub through internal gearing.  These hub motors are true freewheel, which means that when you are pedaling without power, you don't have extra drag on the system.  This is important to me, because I like to ride my bike in a variety of ways, and would bummed on extra drag if I'm riding without e assist.  These geared motors are much lighter than the direct drive motors, look much like a normal hub, and they are supposedly a bit more efficient as well (read:  increase your range).
       
      Front vs Rear drive:  Either one is probably fine.  I didn't want to mess around with rear drive as I felt there were likely to be issues related to which cogsets one could use etc...   The install for front drive is incredibly simple.  The ride quality for front drive is awesome.  Basically, when you are pedaling and using front drive assist, you have an AWD bike, and it handles reallly well.  With front drive, you are also distributing some of the weight upfront, so that your bike doesn't end up with all the business on the back end. 
       
      The edgerunner looks awesome, and I'd love to ride one sometime.  actually considering one for my wife.  If I were to buy one, I would probably buy the non-electric version, and then use a conversion kit like what I have on my big dummy.  I think those conversion kits lend themselves better to tinkering.  for some reason, most systems don't have a simple power out for a good light system, which is just silly.
       
      hope that helps,
      Thad
       
    • katsujinkenliu
      Helpful info soappedaler. Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts! -Kev
      Message 2 of 12 , Oct 17, 2012
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        Helpful info soappedaler. Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts!

        -Kev

        --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "soappedaler" <soappedaler@...> wrote:
        >
        > I have an eZee front motor on my dummy, have had it about a year and a half and love it. One reason I like the front motor is that I carry heavy loads having the motor on the front balances the weight. The local bike store has a couple of bikes that are bionx electric and last time I brought the dummy in for service they lent me one to get home. It's a whole different thing to have a throttle verses the bionx that senses changes in your pedaling. When I needed power to cross a street, we don't have a lot of hill here, I know it's there.
        >
      • katsujinkenliu
        Thank you Brian, for both the NuVinci info and your perspective on the front hub. Tracy and I also like the pedelec idea, and will have to find someplace to
        Message 3 of 12 , Oct 17, 2012
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          Thank you Brian, for both the NuVinci info and your perspective on the front hub. Tracy and I also like the pedelec idea, and will have to find someplace to try the different systems and options. Lots more to consider than we had at first thought... :)

          -Kev

          --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, Brian Livelsberger <livelsbe@...> wrote:
          >
          > I have an Xtracycle conversion on my old mountain bike with NuVinci and
          > front hub motor. I was torn between the Yuba and the conversion, deciding
          > on the conversion because one of the main advantages to the Yuba (to me) is
          > the heavy-duty wheels and axles, which I would lose if I did the NuVinci
          > out back and hub motor up front (both coming only in standard axle
          > diameters). I love the NuVinci - very solid, I perceive no losses or
          > mushiness that some people claim, even when pulling a hill with the kids on
          > back without the e-assist. The range of the NuVinci isn't quite what I
          > would want, but I set it up to not lose top end, and the e-assist makes up
          > for the super-low range that I compromised on the low end. Schlumpf drive
          > up front to get a second gear would solve that, but I ran out of cash and
          > spousal goodwill :). Anyway, I like the Pedelec idea that Bionx implements,
          > but having a throttle for hill pulling or getting across a busy street is
          > something that I value a lot. It keeps the rear drivetrain simple, and
          > keeps me always in touch with how much juice I'm using. For longer rides I
          > get tired of holding the throttle, and that's where I'd see the real
          > benefit of the bionx type system coming in.
          >
          > Cheers,
          > Brian.
          >
          > On Wed, Oct 17, 2012 at 1:09 AM, katsujinkenliu <katsujinken@...> wrote:
          >
          > > **
          > >
          > >
          > > Thanks very much for your thoughts Thad. I have also been toying with the
          > > idea of going the Big Dummy route instead, particularly since i would have
          > > to choose between e-assist or NuVinci hub on the EdgeRunner. Could you
          > > share why you went with the front hub motor and why a true freewheel is
          > > important?
          > >
          > > Thanks much!
          > >
          > > -Kev
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, Thaddeus Block <tblock@> wrote:
          > > >
          > > > Hey there,
          > > > I thought I'd chime in as I have a surly big dummy with xtracycle racks
          > > and
          > > > an electric front hub drive motor. I've been using this system for about
          > > 4
          > > > months now, and it is a solid rig. I'd imagine the edgerunner will be a
          > > > very nice setup as well.
          > > >
          > > > regarding the electric drive, I purchased a conversion kit from doug at
          > > > www.gocarlite.com rather than a bionx system or other name brand
          > > system. I
          > > > wanted something that I could tinker with, and also wanted better value.
          > > > Ended up with a 48V 10 amp hr lifepo4 battery and a geared front hub
          > > motor
          > > > (with true freewheel - important).
          > > >
          > > > I was able to siphon off a power line from the main power line to a
          > > > homemade high intensity LED light system, so that I don't have to deal
          > > with
          > > > other battery packs. I just charge the main battery after work, and then
          > > > the battery pack is ready to run the light system and the motor the next
          > > > day. The light system only uses about 12 watts, so it doesn't seem to
          > > > reduce battery life or motor performance at all.
          > > >
          > > > regarding range and power. the number of amp hours is basically the
          > > meaure
          > > > of 'fuel in the tank.' You can change your riding style a little bit, and
          > > > have a relative large impact on the range of the battery. For example, I
          > > > live about 10 miles from work, and up a fairly large hill. If I really
          > > > want to crank home asap, I can do the trip in about 30 minutes using
          > > about
          > > > 6 amp hours. If I take it easy on the battery, and only use it for
          > > > accelerations and hills and go conservative, I can do the same trip
          > > > spending only about 2 amp hours, and adding 10 minutes to the travel
          > > time.
          > > > So, I could eek out 50 miles of range on my system but it would require
          > > > discipline. Or, I can blow the entire charge on a super fast 25 mile
          > > ride.
          > > >
          > > > hope that is helpful.
          > > >
          > > > Thad
          > > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
        • katsujinkenliu
          Super helpful Thad! Thanks for responding to my questions. Even more to think about. I ve read elsewhere that the front hub motors feel somewhat akin to
          Message 4 of 12 , Oct 17, 2012
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            Super helpful Thad! Thanks for responding to my questions. Even more to think about. I've read elsewhere that the front hub motors feel somewhat akin to being pulld along, which, in certain circumstances would be good.

            Tracy and I-at least at this point-would really like to retain a non-assisted riding experience as much as possible--at least on the flats...hence, at least in theory, we were leaning towards a pedelec type assist. You make some great points to think about, so we'll be considering more ;). Some of it will come down to pure economics when we see the various EdgeRunner price points.

            Thanks again!

            -Kev

            --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, Thaddeus Block <tblock@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi Kevin,
            >
            > The big dummy is a really well built frame, so its appealing in that
            > regard. I am also very tall, so was happy to see that surly makes an XL
            > big dummy. I think its the only cargo bike that comes in so many sizes.
            > I'm not a fan of 'one size fits all' frames.....
            >
            > The down side for big dummy is that the frame alone is about $950. But for
            > a high quality surly built frame I plan to keep for a long time, its a deal.
            >
            > For hub drive motors, there are two types.
            >
            > The classic type is direct drive motors, where the hub is essentially the
            > motor. these direct drive hubs are supposedly very durable, but they have
            > a modest amount of drag (read: no true freewheel) and they are incredibly
            > large and heavy.
            >
            > There are geared hub motors, which is what I have. This is a hub that has
            > a small motor which drives the hub through internal gearing. These hub
            > motors are true freewheel, which means that when you are pedaling without
            > power, you don't have extra drag on the system. This is important to me,
            > because I like to ride my bike in a variety of ways, and would bummed on
            > extra drag if I'm riding without e assist. These geared motors are much
            > lighter than the direct drive motors, look much like a normal hub, and they
            > are supposedly a bit more efficient as well (read: increase your range).
            >
            > Front vs Rear drive: Either one is probably fine. I didn't want to mess
            > around with rear drive as I felt there were likely to be issues related to
            > which cogsets one could use etc... The install for front drive is
            > incredibly simple. The ride quality for front drive is awesome.
            > Basically, when you are pedaling and using front drive assist, you have an
            > AWD bike, and it handles reallly well. With front drive, you are also
            > distributing some of the weight upfront, so that your bike doesn't end up
            > with all the business on the back end.
            >
            > The edgerunner looks awesome, and I'd love to ride one sometime. actually
            > considering one for my wife. If I were to buy one, I would probably buy
            > the non-electric version, and then use a conversion kit like what I have on
            > my big dummy. I think those conversion kits lend themselves better to
            > tinkering. for some reason, most systems don't have a simple power out for
            > a good light system, which is just silly.
            >
            > hope that helps,
            > Thad
            >
          • Jon Schroeder
            Quick question: Does anyone sell a geared hub motor laced to a 29er front wheel? Thanks, I have a Karate Monkey front fork on my Xtra rig.
            Message 5 of 12 , Oct 18, 2012
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              Quick question:  Does anyone sell a geared hub motor laced to a 29er front wheel?  Thanks, I have a Karate Monkey front fork on my Xtra rig.
            • Sean
              If you do not find one, it may be the opportunity to learn how to lace a wheel. I just learned how a few months ago. I have been wrenching on bikes for many
              Message 6 of 12 , Oct 18, 2012
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                If you do not find one, it may be the opportunity to learn how to lace a wheel. I just learned how a few months ago. I have been wrenching on bikes for many years. Now that I know how,  I wished I had learned sooner. I have been a wheel building fool lately. If you can follow basic directions you can build a wheel, it is truly not that hard. I use the Sheldon Brown method online. Just google "wheel building Sheldon Brown". He has a step by step instruction page for just about every popular lacing pattern. Spokes are generally less than $1 each if you buy a full set. You can build exactly what you want that way. You might also try your local bike co-op for assistance lacing a wheel. The bike oven in LA does wheel building classes periodically for free. Most bike co-op's have a large selection of good used wheel parts as well very cheap.

                Sean

                Sent from my iPad

                On Oct 18, 2012, at 7:39 AM, Jon Schroeder <JonSchroeder@...> wrote:

                 

                Quick question:  Does anyone sell a geared hub motor laced to a 29er front wheel?  Thanks, I have a Karate Monkey front fork on my Xtra rig.

              • Thaddeus Block
                Hi there, The smaller the wheel diameter, the stronger the wheel. 29ers and 700cc are not ideal sizes for powering at the hub. It may be possible, but not
                Message 7 of 12 , Oct 19, 2012
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                  Hi there,

                  The smaller the wheel diameter, the stronger the wheel.
                  29ers and 700cc are not ideal sizes for powering at the hub.  It may be possible, but not likely to be a durable wheel.  If you do build one or have it built, it will need to be build with the most possible spokes of greatest strength etc.....

                  Thad

                • dr2chase@mac.com
                  ... On the other hand, tire strength is greater for larger diameters. 20x2 Big Apple is rated for 85kg, 28x2 Big Apple is rated for 135kg. David
                  Message 8 of 12 , Oct 19, 2012
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                    On 2012-10-19, at 1:00 PM, Thaddeus Block <tblock@...> wrote:
                    > The smaller the wheel diameter, the stronger the wheel.

                    On the other hand, tire strength is greater for larger diameters.
                    20x2 Big Apple is rated for 85kg, 28x2 Big Apple is rated for 135kg.

                    David
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