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Re: [rootsradicals] 29er Conversion Project Underway

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  • gear.head@verizon.net
    I would be interested to see the progress. Sean Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ... From: thom chiaramonte Sender:
    Message 1 of 23 , May 8, 2012
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      I would be interested to see the progress.

      Sean
      Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

      -----Original Message-----
      From: thom chiaramonte <thom@...>
      Sender: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Tue, 08 May 2012 14:11:57
      To: <rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com>
      Reply-to: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [rootsradicals] 29er Conversion Project Underway

      Ive been working on a 29er Freerad conversion. I got about as far as I could go, and then took it to a local shop here in the Bay Area that does excellent work and has experience with the Xtracycle stuff. They are helping me sort out the few remaining issues, primarily around replacing the FAP with a custom solution (the wheel stays are too long on my 29er to support the FAP use, and I engineered a solution myself which they think won't last long term, so we will be fabricating something.) As fitting a 29er voids warranty, is a report of my project when completed something that is appropriate to post for other readers here? I know I did a lot of research up front yet still found a few details I hadn't anticipated in the conversion.
      So far so awesome, though…
      t

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    • Tone
      At the moment I can not recall the brand name, but I know there is a well known helmet manufacturer, which makes a few versions with small speakers built into
      Message 2 of 23 , May 8, 2012
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        At the moment I can not recall the brand name, but I know there is a well
        known helmet manufacturer, which makes a few versions with small speakers
        built into the helmet. I just did a Google search for “bicycle helmet
        speaker” and a few relevant results popped up.

        $32 helmet with speakers built in:
        http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_SPM6311779402P?sid=IDx20101019x00001a&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=SPM6311779402

        A $120 device, which transmit your music into your helmet so it actually
        becomes the speaker:
        http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/08/tunebug-turns-your-bike-helmet-into-a-speaker/

        Neither of these are the quality brand I know exists, but this was just a
        quick search. It should not be difficult for someone to track down. I do
        remember that the helmet I am thinking of was not Gyro or Bell, and it
        looked more like a skateboarding style helmet rather than the typical
        aerodynamic road cycling style.
        Personally, I choose not to ride with headphones. I tried it a bit, but
        that was back when I was a rookie messenger. I quickly realized it was
        too dangerous to ride in NYC traffic without full hearing available.
        Also, there was always the added hassle and distraction of dealing with
        the wiring and selecting songs, etc. Of course I am half deaf in one ear,
        so that does not help my situation either. Before anyone challenges me
        for ranting for the cause of not wearing headphones while riding… I also
        choose not to wear a helmet, so I suppose that even things out. I firmly
        believe it is the rider’s choice to choose what is best to suit their
        preference.
        Ride safe
      • Steve Fuller
        ... I haven t used these personally, but they are getting some reasonable reviews - http://www.aftershokz.com/Default.asp They use bone conduction to get sound
        Message 3 of 23 , May 8, 2012
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          On May 8, 2012, at 12:08 PM, Rich W wrote:

           

          I would like to get other members thoughts on this as I consider the choice of listening devices, if used, to be a safety concern both when riding and for pedestrians.

          I haven't used these personally, but they are getting some reasonable reviews - http://www.aftershokz.com/Default.asp
          They use bone conduction to get sound to your head.

          Steve Fuller
        • Mark Garvey
          I recently purchased a stocking cap that is designed for an I-pod. Speakers are in pockets in the hat. They could easily be used in other applications. A
          Message 4 of 23 , May 9, 2012
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            I recently purchased a stocking cap that is designed for an I-pod.  Speakers are in pockets in the hat.  They could easily be used in other applications.  A headband type of ear warmee for instance.  Our a skull cap.  They are not too difficult to deal with.  I also have found a few small and inexpensive speaker sets available that would easily snuggle in a handlebar bag.  Both sets I have include amplifiers.

            On May 8, 2012 12:08 PM, "Rich W" <astronut1001@...> wrote:
            Possibly off subject but do you use headphones when riding and if so what kind?

            I note that several makers including Sony, Philips and Sennheiser make some headphones which sit in the outer ear and aim the sound at the ear canal without actually blocking or covering it.  As these do not block external noises they appear to me to be the safest headphones to use for riding as long as the volume is kept to a reasonable level.  Many of these are made with a behind-the-neck type band or a very thin over the head type band which do not interfere with wearing a helmet.

            Noise cancelling or in-ear-canal type phones seem to me to be the most dangerous types as they isolate the rider from the sound of horns, sirens and other danger warning sounds.  Full size over-the-ear phones also appear to be a poor choice as most prevent wearing a helmet as well as blocking external sounds.

            I would like to get other members thoughts on this as I consider the choice of listening devices, if used, to be a safety concern both when riding and for pedestrians.

            Rich Wood



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          • ravenscroftscott
            Check with your city ordinance regarding headphones and cycling. Here in Chicago, it is illegal for bicyclists to wear headphones. And, as a rider, I steer
            Message 5 of 23 , May 14, 2012
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              Check with your city ordinance regarding headphones and cycling. Here in Chicago, it is illegal for bicyclists to wear headphones. And, as a rider, I steer clear of cyclists who wear them; I don't trust riders to be able to hear me yelling "ON YOUR LEFT" if I need to pass,(a rare occurrence) or (more likely)to notice that my brakes have squealed to a stop because the car in front of us is turning right without signalling. Yes, it happens *that* fast sometimes. In some riding situations, it's a concern for your fellow cyclists, too.

              Reba


              --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Rich W" <astronut1001@...> wrote:
              >
              > Possibly off subject but do you use headphones when riding and if so what kind?
              >
              > I note that several makers including Sony, Philips and Sennheiser make some headphones which sit in the outer ear and aim the sound at the ear canal without actually blocking or covering it. As these do not block external noises they appear to me to be the safest headphones to use for riding as long as the volume is kept to a reasonable level. Many of these are made with a behind-the-neck type band or a very thin over the head type band which do not interfere with wearing a helmet.
              >
              > Noise cancelling or in-ear-canal type phones seem to me to be the most dangerous types as they isolate the rider from the sound of horns, sirens and other danger warning sounds. Full size over-the-ear phones also appear to be a poor choice as most prevent wearing a helmet as well as blocking external sounds.
              >
              > I would like to get other members thoughts on this as I consider the choice of listening devices, if used, to be a safety concern both when riding and for pedestrians.
              >
              > Rich Wood
              >
            • Rich W
              Interesting points. Bicycle laws are minimal in Nevada where there are not even any helmet laws for bicyclists, even kids, with the exception of on some
              Message 6 of 23 , May 14, 2012
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                Interesting points. Bicycle laws are minimal in Nevada where there are not even any helmet laws for bicyclists, even kids, with the exception of on some Indian reservations.

                I find it interesting that headphones are banned for cyclists, even those designs that do not block the ear canal or cover the ear so do allow external sound in. At the same time drivers get away with eating, drinking, telephoning, texting, GPS operation, entertainment system operation and listening while their windows are rolled up and AC or heater going full blast. Some play music so loud that they cannot hear anything in the way of emergency vehicles. I realize that the texting is illegal in many areas and telephoning is also illegal except for hands free sets in most states but both are still widely done and per tests the hands free phones do not increase safety. I have also noted shaving, reading and makeup application while driving, among other activities.

                Are bicyclists really that much more safety conscious than car drivers and if so does the automobile isolate the driver from the external environment to the point where many drivers consider themselves invulnerable and capable of multitasking? I note that when Mythbusters on TV has tried testing multitasking driving the results have been very unsafe.

                Rich Wood


                --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "ravenscroftscott" <ravenscroftscott@...> wrote:
                >
                > Check with your city ordinance regarding headphones and cycling. Here in Chicago, it is illegal for bicyclists to wear headphones. And, as a rider, I steer clear of cyclists who wear them; I don't trust riders to be able to hear me yelling "ON YOUR LEFT" if I need to pass,(a rare occurrence) or (more likely)to notice that my brakes have squealed to a stop because the car in front of us is turning right without signalling. Yes, it happens *that* fast sometimes. In some riding situations, it's a concern for your fellow cyclists, too.
                >
                > Reba
                >
                >
                > --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Rich W" <astronut1001@> wrote:
                > >
                > > Possibly off subject but do you use headphones when riding and if so what kind?
                > >
                > > I note that several makers including Sony, Philips and Sennheiser make some headphones which sit in the outer ear and aim the sound at the ear canal without actually blocking or covering it. As these do not block external noises they appear to me to be the safest headphones to use for riding as long as the volume is kept to a reasonable level. Many of these are made with a behind-the-neck type band or a very thin over the head type band which do not interfere with wearing a helmet.
                > >
                > > Noise cancelling or in-ear-canal type phones seem to me to be the most dangerous types as they isolate the rider from the sound of horns, sirens and other danger warning sounds. Full size over-the-ear phones also appear to be a poor choice as most prevent wearing a helmet as well as blocking external sounds.
                > >
                > > I would like to get other members thoughts on this as I consider the choice of listening devices, if used, to be a safety concern both when riding and for pedestrians.
                > >
                > > Rich Wood
                > >
                >
              • David Chase
                A few years ago it struck me just how deaf drivers are, and the second thing that struck me is why it took me so long to figure this out. I think it has a lot
                Message 7 of 23 , May 15, 2012
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                  A few years ago it struck me just how deaf drivers are, and the second thing that struck me is why it took me so long to figure this out. I think it has a lot to do with this image of cars as empowering go-anywhere-mobiles.

                  What drove the point home for me was watching everyone around me (not) react to an emergency vehicle that was headed our direction. It was audible to me for a minute or two before any of the cars seemed to notice, was clearly behind us, was clearly coming closer. They didn't hear it at first, and they couldn't seem to realize that it was coming our way, and then bumbled around like drunken sheep trying to get out of its way (by this time, I was completely off the road).

                  On 2012-05-15, at 2:34 AM, Rich W wrote:
                  > I find it interesting that headphones are banned for cyclists, even those designs that do not block the ear canal or cover the ear so do allow external sound in. At the same time drivers get away with eating, drinking, telephoning, texting, GPS operation, entertainment system operation and listening while their windows are rolled up and AC or heater going full blast. Some play music so loud that they cannot hear anything in the way of emergency vehicles. I realize that the texting is illegal in many areas and telephoning is also illegal except for hands free sets in most states but both are still widely done and per tests the hands free phones do not increase safety. I have also noted shaving, reading and makeup application while driving, among other activities.
                  >
                  > Are bicyclists really that much more safety conscious than car drivers and if so does the automobile isolate the driver from the external environment to the point where many drivers consider themselves invulnerable and capable of multitasking? I note that when Mythbusters on TV has tried testing multitasking driving the results have been very unsafe.
                • Jeffrey
                  I figured this would venture into the realm of should people wear headphones while riding, given where the kid on the back of the snapdeck went. Throwing my
                  Message 8 of 23 , May 15, 2012
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                    I figured this would venture into the realm of should people wear headphones while riding, given where the kid on the back of the snapdeck went.

                    Throwing my $0.02 in. I wear Sennheiser CX300 buds:
                    http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-MK-II-Earbuds-Carrying/dp/B001EZYMF4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1337097787&sr=8-1

                    I ride mostly on MUPs but also ride in downtown traffic. They allow road noise in, and I never had had a problem having anyone (car or bike) supprise me. They don't pop out (good), sound pretty good (not that you need them to given that nobody does critical listening while pounding away at the bike), and are not too expensive. I sometimes wet the silicone ear thingys to keep them in my ear a bit better and that works well.

                    I can understand Reba's comments, they sound valid for her. But my experience tells me this:

                    If I say "on your left" (and I do it allot while on my lunch-hour sprints), its more dependent on the *type* of rider on what they will do, then whether they have headphones on. Recreational riders (old and young) turn to their left and in doing so steer right into me - basically causing the problem I was trying to avoid. Avid cyclists (headphones or not), keep looking straight, sometimes pull slightly right to give me space, and no issues.... My rule of thumb, I don't buzz people, but if they look like novices, I don't say anything and basically pass them all the way on the other side of the bike trail so I don't supprise them... (and after I pass, I say thank you and wave)

                    About the break squealing thing, I personally never depend on someones misadjusted brakes to tell me they are stopping. Lockup on the bike tires (visually) works just as well and works even if the rider is usings audibly silent disc, coaster, or drum brakes:-)

                    Cheers, and happy riding.





                    --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "ravenscroftscott" <ravenscroftscott@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Check with your city ordinance regarding headphones and cycling. Here in Chicago, it is illegal for bicyclists to wear headphones. And, as a rider, I steer clear of cyclists who wear them; I don't trust riders to be able to hear me yelling "ON YOUR LEFT" if I need to pass,(a rare occurrence) or (more likely)to notice that my brakes have squealed to a stop because the car in front of us is turning right without signalling. Yes, it happens *that* fast sometimes. In some riding situations, it's a concern for your fellow cyclists, too.
                    >
                    > Reba
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Rich W" <astronut1001@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Possibly off subject but do you use headphones when riding and if so what kind?
                    > >
                    > > I note that several makers including Sony, Philips and Sennheiser make some headphones which sit in the outer ear and aim the sound at the ear canal without actually blocking or covering it. As these do not block external noises they appear to me to be the safest headphones to use for riding as long as the volume is kept to a reasonable level. Many of these are made with a behind-the-neck type band or a very thin over the head type band which do not interfere with wearing a helmet.
                    > >
                    > > Noise cancelling or in-ear-canal type phones seem to me to be the most dangerous types as they isolate the rider from the sound of horns, sirens and other danger warning sounds. Full size over-the-ear phones also appear to be a poor choice as most prevent wearing a helmet as well as blocking external sounds.
                    > >
                    > > I would like to get other members thoughts on this as I consider the choice of listening devices, if used, to be a safety concern both when riding and for pedestrians.
                    > >
                    > > Rich Wood
                    > >
                    >
                  • Rich W
                    Sennheiser and Sony also make non ear covering and non ear canal blocking sport headphones which allow in ambient sound, basically unattenuated. These provide
                    Message 9 of 23 , May 15, 2012
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                      Sennheiser and Sony also make non ear covering and non ear canal blocking sport headphones which allow in ambient sound, basically unattenuated. These provide a similar to listening to speakers audio environment.

                      http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-PMX-680-Sports-Headphones/dp/B0034L3G8U/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1337126728&sr=1-1

                      and

                      http://www.amazon.com/Sony-Lightweight-MDR-W08L-In-The-Ear-Headphones/dp/B00005N6KG/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1337127225&sr=1-1

                      For riders who want or need speakers for listening while riding due to local or state laws, or personal preference, the Audible Rush company seems to have the system that most closely approaches car stereo as far as sound level and quality. It uses a 12V Lithium Ion rechargeable battery and mounts in a included handlebar bag. Your smartphone or MP3 player attaches to it. Not cheap but per reviews the best speaker system for bicycles on the market. This is a new company and apparently their systems are assembled in the USA, at least for now.

                      http://www.amazon.com/Audible-Rush-Jam-Pac-Premium--Bicycle/dp/B006H9U28S/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1337128406&sr=1-2

                      Rich Wood


                      --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Jeffrey" <jeffrey_hiroshima@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > I figured this would venture into the realm of should people wear headphones while riding, given where the kid on the back of the snapdeck went.
                      >
                      > Throwing my $0.02 in. I wear Sennheiser CX300 buds:
                      > http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-MK-II-Earbuds-Carrying/dp/B001EZYMF4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1337097787&sr=8-1
                      >
                      > I ride mostly on MUPs but also ride in downtown traffic. They allow road noise in, and I never had had a problem having anyone (car or bike) supprise me. They don't pop out (good), sound pretty good (not that you need them to given that nobody does critical listening while pounding away at the bike), and are not too expensive. I sometimes wet the silicone ear thingys to keep them in my ear a bit better and that works well.
                      >
                      > I can understand Reba's comments, they sound valid for her. But my experience tells me this:
                      >
                      > If I say "on your left" (and I do it allot while on my lunch-hour sprints), its more dependent on the *type* of rider on what they will do, then whether they have headphones on. Recreational riders (old and young) turn to their left and in doing so steer right into me - basically causing the problem I was trying to avoid. Avid cyclists (headphones or not), keep looking straight, sometimes pull slightly right to give me space, and no issues.... My rule of thumb, I don't buzz people, but if they look like novices, I don't say anything and basically pass them all the way on the other side of the bike trail so I don't supprise them... (and after I pass, I say thank you and wave)
                      >
                      > About the break squealing thing, I personally never depend on someones misadjusted brakes to tell me they are stopping. Lockup on the bike tires (visually) works just as well and works even if the rider is usings audibly silent disc, coaster, or drum brakes:-)
                      >
                      > Cheers, and happy riding.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "ravenscroftscott" <ravenscroftscott@> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Check with your city ordinance regarding headphones and cycling. Here in Chicago, it is illegal for bicyclists to wear headphones. And, as a rider, I steer clear of cyclists who wear them; I don't trust riders to be able to hear me yelling "ON YOUR LEFT" if I need to pass,(a rare occurrence) or (more likely)to notice that my brakes have squealed to a stop because the car in front of us is turning right without signalling. Yes, it happens *that* fast sometimes. In some riding situations, it's a concern for your fellow cyclists, too.
                      > >
                      > > Reba
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Rich W" <astronut1001@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Possibly off subject but do you use headphones when riding and if so what kind?
                      > > >
                      > > > I note that several makers including Sony, Philips and Sennheiser make some headphones which sit in the outer ear and aim the sound at the ear canal without actually blocking or covering it. As these do not block external noises they appear to me to be the safest headphones to use for riding as long as the volume is kept to a reasonable level. Many of these are made with a behind-the-neck type band or a very thin over the head type band which do not interfere with wearing a helmet.
                      > > >
                      > > > Noise cancelling or in-ear-canal type phones seem to me to be the most dangerous types as they isolate the rider from the sound of horns, sirens and other danger warning sounds. Full size over-the-ear phones also appear to be a poor choice as most prevent wearing a helmet as well as blocking external sounds.
                      > > >
                      > > > I would like to get other members thoughts on this as I consider the choice of listening devices, if used, to be a safety concern both when riding and for pedestrians.
                      > > >
                      > > > Rich Wood
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Rich W
                      Sorry for the duplicate post (removed). Blame Microschlock Idiotic Exploiter ;-) Rich Wood
                      Message 10 of 23 , May 15, 2012
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                        Sorry for the duplicate post (removed). Blame Microschlock Idiotic Exploiter ;-)

                        Rich Wood

                        --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Rich W" <astronut1001@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Sennheiser and Sony also make non ear covering and non ear canal blocking sport headphones which allow in ambient sound, basically unattenuated. These provide a similar to listening to speakers audio environment.
                        >
                        > http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-PMX-680-Sports-Headphones/dp/B0034L3G8U/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1337126728&sr=1-1
                        >
                        > and
                        >
                        > http://www.amazon.com/Sony-Lightweight-MDR-W08L-In-The-Ear-Headphones/dp/B00005N6KG/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1337127225&sr=1-1
                        >
                        > For riders who want or need speakers for listening while riding due to local or state laws, or personal preference, the Audible Rush company seems to have the system that most closely approaches car stereo as far as sound level and quality. It uses a 12V Lithium Ion rechargeable battery and mounts in a included handlebar bag. Your smartphone or MP3 player attaches to it. Not cheap but per reviews the best speaker system for bicycles on the market. This is a new company and apparently their systems are assembled in the USA, at least for now.
                        >
                        > http://www.amazon.com/Audible-Rush-Jam-Pac-Premium--Bicycle/dp/B006H9U28S/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1337128406&sr=1-2
                        >
                        > Rich Wood
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Jeffrey" <jeffrey_hiroshima@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > I figured this would venture into the realm of should people wear headphones while riding, given where the kid on the back of the snapdeck went.
                        > >
                        > > Throwing my $0.02 in. I wear Sennheiser CX300 buds:
                        > > http://www.amazon.com/Sennheiser-MK-II-Earbuds-Carrying/dp/B001EZYMF4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1337097787&sr=8-1
                        > >
                        > > I ride mostly on MUPs but also ride in downtown traffic. They allow road noise in, and I never had had a problem having anyone (car or bike) supprise me. They don't pop out (good), sound pretty good (not that you need them to given that nobody does critical listening while pounding away at the bike), and are not too expensive. I sometimes wet the silicone ear thingys to keep them in my ear a bit better and that works well.
                        > >
                        > > I can understand Reba's comments, they sound valid for her. But my experience tells me this:
                        > >
                        > > If I say "on your left" (and I do it allot while on my lunch-hour sprints), its more dependent on the *type* of rider on what they will do, then whether they have headphones on. Recreational riders (old and young) turn to their left and in doing so steer right into me - basically causing the problem I was trying to avoid. Avid cyclists (headphones or not), keep looking straight, sometimes pull slightly right to give me space, and no issues.... My rule of thumb, I don't buzz people, but if they look like novices, I don't say anything and basically pass them all the way on the other side of the bike trail so I don't supprise them... (and after I pass, I say thank you and wave)
                        > >
                        > > About the break squealing thing, I personally never depend on someones misadjusted brakes to tell me they are stopping. Lockup on the bike tires (visually) works just as well and works even if the rider is usings audibly silent disc, coaster, or drum brakes:-)
                        > >
                        > > Cheers, and happy riding.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "ravenscroftscott" <ravenscroftscott@> wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Check with your city ordinance regarding headphones and cycling. Here in Chicago, it is illegal for bicyclists to wear headphones. And, as a rider, I steer clear of cyclists who wear them; I don't trust riders to be able to hear me yelling "ON YOUR LEFT" if I need to pass,(a rare occurrence) or (more likely)to notice that my brakes have squealed to a stop because the car in front of us is turning right without signalling. Yes, it happens *that* fast sometimes. In some riding situations, it's a concern for your fellow cyclists, too.
                        > > >
                        > > > Reba
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Rich W" <astronut1001@> wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Possibly off subject but do you use headphones when riding and if so what kind?
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I note that several makers including Sony, Philips and Sennheiser make some headphones which sit in the outer ear and aim the sound at the ear canal without actually blocking or covering it. As these do not block external noises they appear to me to be the safest headphones to use for riding as long as the volume is kept to a reasonable level. Many of these are made with a behind-the-neck type band or a very thin over the head type band which do not interfere with wearing a helmet.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Noise cancelling or in-ear-canal type phones seem to me to be the most dangerous types as they isolate the rider from the sound of horns, sirens and other danger warning sounds. Full size over-the-ear phones also appear to be a poor choice as most prevent wearing a helmet as well as blocking external sounds.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > I would like to get other members thoughts on this as I consider the choice of listening devices, if used, to be a safety concern both when riding and for pedestrians.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Rich Wood
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
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