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RE: [rootsradicals] Re: power assist!

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  • Mighk Wilson
    Perhaps someone could design a motorized single-wheel trailer that pushes the bike? That way you could attach the trailer only when you needed a boost. No
    Message 1 of 12 , Aug 2, 2007
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      Perhaps someone could design a motorized single-wheel trailer that pushes the bike? That way you could attach the trailer only when you needed a boost. No drivetrain complications either, just a controller line from the handlebars to the back of the bike to connect.

      There's also some outfit developing a hydraulic transmission system that's evidently scaleable (not the NuVinci hub; this is for the propulsion part of the drivetrain, not for shifting). It would use hydraulics to store energy for regenerative braking. UPS is very interested in it with all their stop & go driving. The article I read on it said the inventors were also talking to a major bicycle manufacturer.

      Mighk

      ________________________________________
      From: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com [mailto:rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ryano
      Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 8:32 AM
      To: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [rootsradicals] Re: power assist!

      Sanyo already makes an electric bicycle with regenerative braking.  My mother-in-law bought one this Spring and absolutely loves it.  She lives in a hilly area, where the regenerative system is particularly useful.  It is called the "Enacle" http://www.e-life-sanyo.com/bicycle/

      Really pretty cool.  I haven't tried, but would not be surprised if you could actually fit an Xtracycle onto one of these, because the motor runs from around the bottom bracket, not the hub, just like the Giant Lite someone mentioned - which incidentally is basically a National Panasonic e-bike adapted to American tastes.  My wife also uses a Panasonic e-bike and it really is pretty sweet if you are hauling things (and kids).  I certainly can manage without and prefer something light and simple, but millions of Japanese housewives rely on e-bikes and if that keeps them from buying cars, who are we to scoff at them.  And because of all those millions of sales, the Japanese e-bike makers really do have it down pat.  I'm really surprised they don't already have factories in Kansas making them for Americans also.

      On 02/08/07, Mark Garvey <lazybee45@...> wrote:
      Well, on my Trike I was averaging about 9 mph generally, with power assist It was about 10-12 mph.  On my Mountain bike with road tires (Primo Comets) I can average about 11-12 mph but with the PA running I can blow through 13-14 mph.  I did 28 miles today in 2 hours and a few seconds, missing 14 mph average for 2 hours by only a few hundred yards!  Note that I am 54 years old,  and weigh 240 more or less.   I rode 20 miles over lunch time  (I got a 2 hour lunch today!) and totalled 36 miles today with my X.  I am digging it more and more!  I did a modest grocery run this afternoon and only picked up 6 bags of groceries, I had room for more!  and NO TRAILER!   I plan to add a hitch for my Kiddie trailer and my little utility trailer so that I do have that option if I need it!  But overall the X is delightful!

      By the way, the BionX has a regen system, but I have a feeling that while it is a working system and does have an effect, it may be more flash than utility!  My Currie USPD system is very simple and works really well!  The Stokemonkey and Cyclone systems run through the gears to improve efficiency.  My Currie starts to groan a bit when it gets down to 8 or 9 mph!

      mark
      On 8/1/07, tyler_rudkin < tyler_rudkin@...> wrote:
      Check out the Bion-X system for egenerative charging on
      downhills/flats.

      My Xtracycle is going on a Giant Lite (electric bike).  I commute on
      a road bike because I can go much faster than my eBike ever could,
      and like the exercise.  However, after that commute, the eBike is a
      deciding factor in pulling my kids to the ice cream shop after work
      or running an errand by bike vs. car.

      The same should hold true for the Xtracycle.

      --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Garvey" <lazybee45@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > On 8/1/07, Nathan Klatt <n8klatt@...> wrote:
      > >
      > > On 7/31/07, Mark Garvey <lazybee45@...> wrote:
      > > > Unfortunately, that motor makes the bike MORE practical than
      my car!
      > >
      > > Arguments of purity aside, this put a huge smile on my face!
      > >
      > > Arguments of purity NOT aside, what if the electric assist would
      only
      > > give out what was put into it by the rider directly?  I.e., if
      you
      > > never plug the battery in and, instead, it charges using
      regenerative
      > > braking?  Like you could add some small amount of drag when
      you're on
      > > the flats and going downhill to charge it then get it back when
      going
      > > up?  How would that affect the purity of bicycling?
      > >
      > > Well, Personally i don't give a hang about the "purity" of
      cycling.
      > Anyone who worries about "purity" except in a sense of water or
      foodstuffs
      > is not living in the real world!  It is kind of like a recital my
      sister
      > gave once.  It was all German Lieder, which may well be the most
      awful and
      > boring music ever to be considered as part of a classical music
      program!
      > Imagine if you will, a song with lines like "You WILL love me, you
      are mine
      > because I desire you!  You have the beauty of a finely machined
      engine
      > part!" sung in German, to a group of stern faced judges who are
      picking on
      > inflection, meter, tonal quality and all that sort of thing.
      >
      > The real world happens OUTSIDE the college where kids play
      improvised
      > instruments and do wop for tips!  Try huckstering Lieter THERE!
      >
      > But I digress!  I like what WORKS.  My only beef with e assist is
      the
      > weight.  My lovely light bike has become heavy!  It bothers me,
      but it
      > WORKS!
      >
      > mark
      > --
      > Putting the fun in dysfunctional for over 50 years!
      >
      >
      > Mark  Garvey
      > Cedar Rapids, Iowa free state!
      >
      > Check out the web site at:
      > http://www.vine-ave.com
      >
      > contact us to have INVISIBLE INC! appear at your next program!
      Details at
      > www.vine-ave.com
      >
      > I am a bicycling lifestylist!
      >





      You're getting this message because you signed up to be an Xtracycle roots radical.

      To Post a message, send it to:          rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com


      ride to believe.
      Yahoo! Groups Links





      --
      Putting the fun in dysfunctional for over 50 years!


      Mark  Garvey
      Cedar Rapids, Iowa free state!

      Check out the web site at:
      http://www.vine-ave.com  

      contact us to have INVISIBLE INC! appear at your next program!  Details at www.vine-ave.com

      I am a bicycling lifestylist!
    • velodog@talkamerica.net
      That would invite complications that would include jack-knifing if power were to be applied while in the midst of a turn. Greg Kreski
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 2, 2007
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        That would invite complications that would include "jack-knifing" if power were
        to be applied while in the midst of a turn.

        Greg Kreski <velodog@...>

        Quoting Mighk Wilson <mwilson@...>:

        > Perhaps someone could design a motorized single-wheel trailer that pushes the
        > bike? That way you could attach the trailer only when you needed a boost.
        > No drivetrain complications either, just a controller line from the
        > handlebars to the back of the bike to connect.
        >
        > There's also some outfit developing a hydraulic transmission system that's
        > evidently scaleable (not the NuVinci hub; this is for the propulsion part of
        > the drivetrain, not for shifting). It would use hydraulics to store energy
        > for regenerative braking. UPS is very interested in it with all their stop &
        > go driving. The article I read on it said the inventors were also talking to
        > a major bicycle manufacturer.
        >
        > Mighk
        >
        > ________________________________________
        > From: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com [mailto:rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com] On
        > Behalf Of Ryano
        > Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 8:32 AM
        > To: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: Re: [rootsradicals] Re: power assist!
        >
        > Sanyo already makes an electric bicycle with regenerative braking.  My
        > mother-in-law bought one this Spring and absolutely loves it.  She lives in a
        > hilly area, where the regenerative system is particularly useful.  It is
        > called the "Enacle" http://www.e-life-sanyo.com/bicycle/
        >
        > Really pretty cool.  I haven't tried, but would not be surprised if you could
        > actually fit an Xtracycle onto one of these, because the motor runs from
        > around the bottom bracket, not the hub, just like the Giant Lite someone
        > mentioned - which incidentally is basically a National Panasonic e-bike
        > adapted to American tastes.  My wife also uses a Panasonic e-bike and it
        > really is pretty sweet if you are hauling things (and kids).  I certainly can
        > manage without and prefer something light and simple, but millions of
        > Japanese housewives rely on e-bikes and if that keeps them from buying cars,
        > who are we to scoff at them.  And because of all those millions of sales, the
        > Japanese e-bike makers really do have it down pat.  I'm really surprised they
        > don't already have factories in Kansas making them for Americans also.
        >
        > On 02/08/07, Mark Garvey <lazybee45@...> wrote:
        > Well, on my Trike I was averaging about 9 mph generally, with power assist It
        > was about 10-12 mph.  On my Mountain bike with road tires (Primo Comets) I
        > can average about 11-12 mph but with the PA running I can blow through 13-14
        > mph.  I did 28 miles today in 2 hours and a few seconds, missing 14 mph
        > average for 2 hours by only a few hundred yards!  Note that I am 54 years
        > old,  and weigh 240 more or less.   I rode 20 miles over lunch time  (I got a
        > 2 hour lunch today!) and totalled 36 miles today with my X.  I am digging it
        > more and more!  I did a modest grocery run this afternoon and only picked up
        > 6 bags of groceries, I had room for more!  and NO TRAILER!   I plan to add a
        > hitch for my Kiddie trailer and my little utility trailer so that I do have
        > that option if I need it!  But overall the X is delightful!
        >
        > By the way, the BionX has a regen system, but I have a feeling that while it
        > is a working system and does have an effect, it may be more flash than
        > utility!  My Currie USPD system is very simple and works really well!  The
        > Stokemonkey and Cyclone systems run through the gears to improve efficiency. 
        > My Currie starts to groan a bit when it gets down to 8 or 9 mph!
        >
        > mark
        > On 8/1/07, tyler_rudkin < tyler_rudkin@...> wrote:
        > Check out the Bion-X system for egenerative charging on
        > downhills/flats.
        >
        > My Xtracycle is going on a Giant Lite (electric bike).  I commute on
        > a road bike because I can go much faster than my eBike ever could,
        > and like the exercise.  However, after that commute, the eBike is a
        > deciding factor in pulling my kids to the ice cream shop after work
        > or running an errand by bike vs. car.
        >
        > The same should hold true for the Xtracycle.
        >
        > --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Garvey" <lazybee45@...>
        > wrote:
        > >
        > > On 8/1/07, Nathan Klatt <n8klatt@...> wrote:
        > > >
        > > > On 7/31/07, Mark Garvey <lazybee45@...> wrote:
        > > > > Unfortunately, that motor makes the bike MORE practical than
        > my car!
        > > >
        > > > Arguments of purity aside, this put a huge smile on my face!
        > > >
        > > > Arguments of purity NOT aside, what if the electric assist would
        > only
        > > > give out what was put into it by the rider directly?  I.e., if
        > you
        > > > never plug the battery in and, instead, it charges using
        > regenerative
        > > > braking?  Like you could add some small amount of drag when
        > you're on
        > > > the flats and going downhill to charge it then get it back when
        > going
        > > > up?  How would that affect the purity of bicycling?
        > > >
        > > > Well, Personally i don't give a hang about the "purity" of
        > cycling.
        > > Anyone who worries about "purity" except in a sense of water or
        > foodstuffs
        > > is not living in the real world!  It is kind of like a recital my
        > sister
        > > gave once.  It was all German Lieder, which may well be the most
        > awful and
        > > boring music ever to be considered as part of a classical music
        > program!
        > > Imagine if you will, a song with lines like "You WILL love me, you
        > are mine
        > > because I desire you!  You have the beauty of a finely machined
        > engine
        > > part!" sung in German, to a group of stern faced judges who are
        > picking on
        > > inflection, meter, tonal quality and all that sort of thing.
        > >
        > > The real world happens OUTSIDE the college where kids play
        > improvised
        > > instruments and do wop for tips!  Try huckstering Lieter THERE!
        > >
        > > But I digress!  I like what WORKS.  My only beef with e assist is
        > the
        > > weight.  My lovely light bike has become heavy!  It bothers me,
        > but it
        > > WORKS!
        > >
        > > mark
        > > --
        > > Putting the fun in dysfunctional for over 50 years!
        > >
        > >
        > > Mark  Garvey
        > > Cedar Rapids, Iowa free state!
        > >
        > > Check out the web site at:
        > > http://www.vine-ave.com
        > >
        > > contact us to have INVISIBLE INC! appear at your next program!
        > Details at
        > > www.vine-ave.com
        > >
        > > I am a bicycling lifestylist!
        > >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > You're getting this message because you signed up to be an Xtracycle roots
        > radical.
        >
        > To Post a message, send it to:          rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
        >
        >
        > ride to believe.
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --
        > Putting the fun in dysfunctional for over 50 years!
        >
        >
        > Mark  Garvey
        > Cedar Rapids, Iowa free state!
        >
        > Check out the web site at:
        > http://www.vine-ave.com  
        >
        > contact us to have INVISIBLE INC! appear at your next program!  Details at
        > www.vine-ave.com
        >
        > I am a bicycling lifestylist!
        >
        >
        >
      • Mighk Wilson
        I wrote: Perhaps someone could design a motorized single-wheel trailer that pushes the bike? That would invite complications that would
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 2, 2007
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          I wrote: >> Perhaps someone could design a motorized single-wheel
          trailer that pushes the bike?<<

          And Greg wrote: >>That would invite complications that would include
          "jack-knifing" if power were to be applied while in the midst of a
          turn.<<

          That's why I'm not an engineer! Thanks.

          Mighk
        • Cathode Ray
          ... Staton Inc makes a motor kit called the pusher, see http://staton-inc.com/Details.asp?ProductID=2729
          Message 4 of 12 , Aug 2, 2007
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            At 9:58 AM -0400 2/8/07, Mighk Wilson wrote:
            >Perhaps someone could design a motorized single-wheel trailer that
            >pushes the bike?

            Staton Inc makes a motor kit called the pusher, see

            http://staton-inc.com/Details.asp?ProductID=2729
          • velodog@talkamerica.net
            Yes, slightly better because the pivoting point is ahead of the rear wheel for the most part. That would greatly reduce the tendency to jack knife. However,
            Message 5 of 12 , Aug 3, 2007
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              Yes, slightly better because the pivoting point is ahead of the rear wheel for
              the most part. That would greatly reduce the tendency to jack knife. However,
              there would still be a thrusting action above the center of gravity that would
              work against your attempts to turn the bike, tending to make it "high side".
              I know this for a fact as I have a trailer called the Alley Cat that is
              essentially like this, but does not have a provision for a child rider. Rather,
              it has a rack that runs the length of the main tube. I tried it on a tour and
              found it to be unwieldly because of the the previously stated problem when
              turning while slowing down, the inertia would push me towards the outside of
              the turn.
              Another troublem is that it had a high moment of inertia above the axle line of
              the bike, causing a lateral instability that was quite annoying when
              accelerating or climbing and unnerving when going downhill. That is why I use
              my B.o.B. trailer so much, and looking forward to putting my X together soon!!
              I just have to complete the drivetrain. I know the rider type of trailers are
              very popular, but I've only seen parents riding slowly in the neighborhoods so
              maybe that's the appropriate application for these.
              First time doing the blog thing, what a great resource!! Thanks, Greg


              Quoting Cathode Ray <ray@...>:

              > At 9:58 AM -0400 2/8/07, Mighk Wilson wrote:
              > >Perhaps someone could design a motorized single-wheel trailer that
              > >pushes the bike?
              >
              > Staton Inc makes a motor kit called the pusher, see
              >
              > http://staton-inc.com/Details.asp?ProductID=2729
              >
            • Mighk Wilson
              ... Yes, it seems quite a few folks have already been busy with the idea. See: http://www.tkotrailers.com/bike-trailer/
              Message 6 of 12 , Aug 3, 2007
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                Greg wrote:
                >> Staton Inc makes a motor kit called the pusher, see
                > http://staton-inc.com/Details.asp?ProductID=2729

                Yes, it seems quite a few folks have already been busy with the idea.
                See:
                http://www.tkotrailers.com/bike-trailer/
                http://www.lightfootcycles.com/trailers.htm
                http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/motobob.htm
                http://www.geocities.com/vancyclist/PT50.html

                Mighk
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