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Thoughts on way to go with 700c FreeRadical

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  • shrew13
    Hey folks, I m new to the list, but looks like some good ideas popping up around here. I stumbled on the list while doing some research on which way to jump
    Message 1 of 12 , May 10 11:10 AM
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      Hey folks, I'm new to the list, but looks like some good ideas popping up around here. I stumbled on the list while doing some research on which way to jump with my 700c FreeRadical (FR). I'm hoping the experience of some folks here might help.

      I had my FR hooked up to an early 90s Bianchi Volpe and it was super fun for small stuff like a quick grocery run, but completely stunk for even moderately heavy stuff. A case of beer on each side scared me to death for the mile or so home. It wiggled and shimmied so much I thought I was going to end out on the ground, in traffic, or both.

      This weekend I picked up a used 26" disc equipped mountain bike (Banshee Viento) that I was going to swap the FR to. But I found that the 41cm minimum chainstay requirement for the 700c FR on the xtracycle website is a bit short - the Viento supposedly has 41.9cm chainstays but the FR tongue is going to have to be somewhere inside the seat tube for it to work. And I checked the geometry of a couple of other MTBs and found them similar (Surly 1X1, Redline Monocog 26, etc), so they look like they're out as well. I'm thinking about a couple of options and hoping someone has tried one or more of the options below and can comment:

      1) Sell the 700c FR and buy a 26" FR - not big on this idea since I know they've made some design changes in the FR and it looks like some bags don't fit older models, etc. This all fits together and works nicely other than the shimmy. Not to mention, I don't intend on carrying HUGELY heavy loads very often. More often it will be a 40 pound bag of dog food, a big bag of potting soil, my four year old and a couple of lawn chairs, or a run to the farmer's market.

      2) Sell the Banshee and my old Volpe, pick up a 700c frame like a Surly Cross Check, and build up a much heavier rear wheel. I'm thinking either a 36 hole XT hub, or possibly a 40 hole tandem hub re-spaced to 135mm, and lace it to a Velocity Deep V/Dyad/Mavic A719 using heavier spokes (DT Alpine?). That should leave a stiff frame, stiff rim, shorter spokes if I go with the Deep V, and provide a good bit of toughness while still being a bit more high speed friendly than a 26" wheeled setup since I don't usually carry big loads.

      3) Sell the Banshee and my old Volpe and pick up a Karate Monkey, use the 26" disc wheels that were on the Banshee (XT hubs laced to Sun Rhino Lite rims) and run huge 26" tires like the Big Apple to give me some suspension and provide a total diameter more like a 700c.

      Anybody got a thought?

      Thanks all!
      shrewboy
      Lancaster, PA
    • Rick
      ... The bags will fit using the RetroFit Kit, so you might not need to change unless you re using rim brakes and drop to a 26 rear wheel. The smaller wheel
      Message 2 of 12 , May 10 11:40 AM
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        1) Sell the 700c FR and buy a 26" FR - not big on this idea since I know they've made some design changes in the FR and it looks like some bags don't fit older models, etc. This all fits together and works nicely other than the shimmy. Not to mention, I don't intend on carrying HUGELY heavy loads very often. More often it will be a 40 pound bag of dog food, a big bag of potting soil, my four year old and a couple of lawn chairs, or a run to the farmer's market.

        The bags will fit using the RetroFit Kit, so you might not need to change unless you're using rim brakes and drop to a 26" rear wheel. The smaller wheel (with straight gauge spokes, brass nipples, strong box construction/or deep V rim, and large flange hub) will help reduce that shimmy and flex you're feeling.


        2) Sell the Banshee and my old Volpe, pick up a 700c frame like a Surly Cross Check, and build up a much heavier rear wheel. I'm thinking either a 36 hole XT hub, or possibly a 40 hole tandem hub re-spaced to 135mm, and lace it to a Velocity Deep V/Dyad/Mavic A719 using heavier spokes (DT Alpine?). That should leave a stiff frame, stiff rim, shorter spokes if I go with the Deep V, and provide a good bit of toughness while still being a bit more high speed friendly than a 26" wheeled setup since I don't usually carry big loads.

        I think you could get by with that wheel build on a 26" and keep a 700c wheel up front. Know a lot of people choose that mixmash setup and enjoy it. The loss of wheel diameter won't be that much of an impact I think.


        3) Sell the Banshee and my old Volpe and pick up a Karate Monkey, use the 26" disc wheels that were on the Banshee (XT hubs laced to Sun Rhino Lite rims) and run huge 26" tires like the Big Apple to give me some suspension and provide a total diameter more like a 700c.

        I love my Maxxiss Hookworms for their 2.5" curb chomping ability. #3 sounds like the best bet if you can sell the Banshee w/ or w/o another wheelset.

        Cheers,
        Rick

      • gear.head@verizon.net
        If you are going to spend money on a new frame buy a big dummy, build it up with your existing parts and sell off what s left. The BD will take a 700, 650 or
        Message 3 of 12 , May 10 11:50 AM
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          If you are going to spend money on a new frame buy a big dummy, build it up with your existing parts and sell off what's left. The BD will take a 700, 650 or 26" wheel.

          Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


          From: "shrew13" <shrew13@...>
          Sender: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 18:10:54 +0000
          To: <rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com>
          ReplyTo: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [rootsradicals] Thoughts on way to go with 700c FreeRadical

           

          Hey folks, I'm new to the list, but looks like some good ideas popping up around here. I stumbled on the list while doing some research on which way to jump with my 700c FreeRadical (FR). I'm hoping the experience of some folks here might help.

          I had my FR hooked up to an early 90s Bianchi Volpe and it was super fun for small stuff like a quick grocery run, but completely stunk for even moderately heavy stuff. A case of beer on each side scared me to death for the mile or so home. It wiggled and shimmied so much I thought I was going to end out on the ground, in traffic, or both.

          This weekend I picked up a used 26" disc equipped mountain bike (Banshee Viento) that I was going to swap the FR to. But I found that the 41cm minimum chainstay requirement for the 700c FR on the xtracycle website is a bit short - the Viento supposedly has 41.9cm chainstays but the FR tongue is going to have to be somewhere inside the seat tube for it to work. And I checked the geometry of a couple of other MTBs and found them similar (Surly 1X1, Redline Monocog 26, etc), so they look like they're out as well. I'm thinking about a couple of options and hoping someone has tried one or more of the options below and can comment:

          1) Sell the 700c FR and buy a 26" FR - not big on this idea since I know they've made some design changes in the FR and it looks like some bags don't fit older models, etc. This all fits together and works nicely other than the shimmy. Not to mention, I don't intend on carrying HUGELY heavy loads very often. More often it will be a 40 pound bag of dog food, a big bag of potting soil, my four year old and a couple of lawn chairs, or a run to the farmer's market.

          2) Sell the Banshee and my old Volpe, pick up a 700c frame like a Surly Cross Check, and build up a much heavier rear wheel. I'm thinking either a 36 hole XT hub, or possibly a 40 hole tandem hub re-spaced to 135mm, and lace it to a Velocity Deep V/Dyad/Mavic A719 using heavier spokes (DT Alpine?). That should leave a stiff frame, stiff rim, shorter spokes if I go with the Deep V, and provide a good bit of toughness while still being a bit more high speed friendly than a 26" wheeled setup since I don't usually carry big loads.

          3) Sell the Banshee and my old Volpe and pick up a Karate Monkey, use the 26" disc wheels that were on the Banshee (XT hubs laced to Sun Rhino Lite rims) and run huge 26" tires like the Big Apple to give me some suspension and provide a total diameter more like a 700c.

          Anybody got a thought?

          Thanks all!
          shrewboy
          Lancaster, PA

        • David Backeberg
          ... I was in a similar boat several months ago. I worked out the math, and it was seeming like it was a better deal to buy a Radish than do all the work I was
          Message 4 of 12 , May 10 11:55 AM
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            On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 2:10 PM, shrew13 <shrew13@...> wrote:
            >etc), so they look like they're out as well. I'm thinking about a couple of options and hoping >someone has tried one or more of the options below and can comment:

            I was in a similar boat several months ago.

            I worked out the math, and it was seeming like it was a better deal to
            buy a Radish than do all the work I was going to do to get my ride the
            way I wanted it.

            Then I talked it over with my trusted buddy at the LBS, and he
            convinced me that I should really go with a Big Dummy (complete)
            instead.

            I'll tell you I'm not having a shimmy problem, it's a very nice ride,
            everything works like it should. It's a really great bike that I plan
            to ride for a long time.

            Only issues I can think about why you wouldn't do the Big Dummy
            * if your budget doesn't allow, but make sure you consider the entire
            budget, including the cost to get the parts you already have, and
            presumably could sell
            * if Surly / xtracycle doesn't have inventory on Big Dummy when you want it

            I put my order in Dec. 2010 and got my bike Mar. 2011.
          • gear.head@verizon.net
            I ordered my dummy from REI and had it in a week (frame only). Just built it two weeks ago. It is way more stable than my previous set up which was a FR on a
            Message 5 of 12 , May 10 12:00 PM
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              I ordered my dummy from REI and had it in a week (frame only). Just built it two weeks ago. It is way more stable than my previous set up which was a FR on a Diamondback mountain frame. I used all the components from my old bike too (saved a lot of money).

              Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


              From: David Backeberg <dbackeberg@...>
              Sender: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 14:55:47 -0400
              To: <rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com>
              ReplyTo: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [rootsradicals] Thoughts on way to go with 700c FreeRadical

               

              On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 2:10 PM, shrew13 <shrew13@...> wrote:
              >etc), so they look like they're out as well. I'm thinking about a couple of options and hoping >someone has tried one or more of the options below and can comment:

              I was in a similar boat several months ago.

              I worked out the math, and it was seeming like it was a better deal to
              buy a Radish than do all the work I was going to do to get my ride the
              way I wanted it.

              Then I talked it over with my trusted buddy at the LBS, and he
              convinced me that I should really go with a Big Dummy (complete)
              instead.

              I'll tell you I'm not having a shimmy problem, it's a very nice ride,
              everything works like it should. It's a really great bike that I plan
              to ride for a long time.

              Only issues I can think about why you wouldn't do the Big Dummy
              * if your budget doesn't allow, but make sure you consider the entire
              budget, including the cost to get the parts you already have, and
              presumably could sell
              * if Surly / xtracycle doesn't have inventory on Big Dummy when you want it

              I put my order in Dec. 2010 and got my bike Mar. 2011.

            • David Backeberg
              ... I thought of another reason you wouldn t do Big Dummy. Because you bought a Yuba Mundo instead. There s three in town now and the nice thing if you re
              Message 6 of 12 , May 10 12:00 PM
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                On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 2:55 PM, David Backeberg <dbackeberg@...> wrote:
                > On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 2:10 PM, shrew13 <shrew13@...> wrote:
                >>etc), so they look like they're out as well. I'm thinking about a couple of options and hoping >someone has tried one or more of the options below and can comment:
                > Only issues I can think about why you wouldn't do the Big Dummy
                > * if your budget doesn't allow, but make sure you consider the entire
                > budget, including the cost to get the parts you already have, and
                > presumably could sell
                > * if Surly / xtracycle doesn't have inventory on Big Dummy when you want it

                I thought of another reason you wouldn't do Big Dummy.

                Because you bought a Yuba Mundo instead. There's three in town now and
                the nice thing if you're planning on kid hauling is that the frame is
                already pre-built for the 'running boards'. You can still do the
                xtracycle accessories, but you get a little more 'built-in'.
              • shrew13
                I have to admit the Big Dummy is really cool, but the price is pretty much a deal breaker for me. I saw where the 2011 frame were $950 at xtracycle.com. I
                Message 7 of 12 , May 10 1:30 PM
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                  I have to admit the Big Dummy is really cool, but the price is pretty much a deal breaker for me. I saw where the 2011 frame were $950 at xtracycle.com. I haven't seen but a couple of Big Dummy setups on the used market, and they were still pricey. The Karate Monkey or Cross Check are about half that when new, and both show up used pretty often. If I were using this all the time and considering going fully car-free, I'd probably consider the extra expense. But for occasional use, I'd have a hard time justifying the extra $600 or so - basing that on a new Dummy @ $950 versus a used Cross Check at somewhere in the $350 range, possibly less if I get one that's been a little move "loved". The cost can't stop me from checking out the galleries online, though!

                  --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, gear.head@... wrote:
                  >
                  > If you are going to spend money on a new frame buy a big dummy, build it up with your existing parts and sell off what's left. The BD will take a 700, 650 or 26" wheel.
                  >
                  > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: "shrew13" <shrew13@...>
                  > Sender: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 18:10:54
                  > To: <rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com>
                  > Reply-to: rootsradicals@...: [rootsradicals] Thoughts on way to go with 700c FreeRadical
                  >
                  > Hey folks, I'm new to the list, but looks like some good ideas popping up around here. I stumbled on the list while doing some research on which way to jump with my 700c FreeRadical (FR). I'm hoping the experience of some folks here might help.
                  >
                  > I had my FR hooked up to an early 90s Bianchi Volpe and it was super fun for small stuff like a quick grocery run, but completely stunk for even moderately heavy stuff. A case of beer on each side scared me to death for the mile or so home. It wiggled and shimmied so much I thought I was going to end out on the ground, in traffic, or both.
                  >
                  > This weekend I picked up a used 26" disc equipped mountain bike (Banshee Viento) that I was going to swap the FR to. But I found that the 41cm minimum chainstay requirement for the 700c FR on the xtracycle website is a bit short - the Viento supposedly has 41.9cm chainstays but the FR tongue is going to have to be somewhere inside the seat tube for it to work. And I checked the geometry of a couple of other MTBs and found them similar (Surly 1X1, Redline Monocog 26, etc), so they look like they're out as well. I'm thinking about a couple of options and hoping someone has tried one or more of the options below and can comment:
                  >
                  > 1) Sell the 700c FR and buy a 26" FR - not big on this idea since I know they've made some design changes in the FR and it looks like some bags don't fit older models, etc. This all fits together and works nicely other than the shimmy. Not to mention, I don't intend on carrying HUGELY heavy loads very often. More often it will be a 40 pound bag of dog food, a big bag of potting soil, my four year old and a couple of lawn chairs, or a run to the farmer's market.
                  >
                  > 2) Sell the Banshee and my old Volpe, pick up a 700c frame like a Surly Cross Check, and build up a much heavier rear wheel. I'm thinking either a 36 hole XT hub, or possibly a 40 hole tandem hub re-spaced to 135mm, and lace it to a Velocity Deep V/Dyad/Mavic A719 using heavier spokes (DT Alpine?). That should leave a stiff frame, stiff rim, shorter spokes if I go with the Deep V, and provide a good bit of toughness while still being a bit more high speed friendly than a 26" wheeled setup since I don't usually carry big loads.
                  >
                  > 3) Sell the Banshee and my old Volpe and pick up a Karate Monkey, use the 26" disc wheels that were on the Banshee (XT hubs laced to Sun Rhino Lite rims) and run huge 26" tires like the Big Apple to give me some suspension and provide a total diameter more like a 700c.
                  >
                  > Anybody got a thought?
                  >
                  > Thanks all!
                  > shrewboy
                  > Lancaster, PA
                  >
                • Andrew Kreps
                  ... You have to remember, the Big Dummy frame includes the price of the Free Radical frame, which is about $239 these days. And the Big Dummy is, quite
                  Message 8 of 12 , May 10 3:11 PM
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                    On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 1:30 PM, shrew13 <shrew13@...> wrote:
                    > But for occasional use, I'd have a hard time justifying the extra $600 or so - basing that on a new Dummy @ $950
                    > versus a used Cross Check at somewhere in the $350 range, possibly less if I get one that's been a little move "loved".
                    > The cost can't stop me from checking out the galleries online, though!


                    You have to remember, the Big Dummy frame includes the price of the
                    Free Radical frame, which is about $239 these days. And the Big Dummy
                    is, quite simply, bombproof. I've been trying to kill mine for over
                    two years now. I've burned up a cross country wheel, but everything
                    else is taut and responsive.
                  • Tone
                    ShrewBoy, I noticed you said you are in Lancaster, PA. Well I am in York, PA. As far as I know you are now the second long-tailer in the PA Susquehanna Valley.
                    Message 9 of 12 , May 11 9:12 AM
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                      ShrewBoy,

                      I noticed you said you are in Lancaster, PA. Well I am in York, PA. As
                      far as I know you are now the second long-tailer in the PA Susquehanna
                      Valley. Welcome to the club!

                      As far as what you should do, I am not exactly sure. I have been riding
                      for many years with a long tail set up, first with a Univega equipped
                      Free-Radical and now a Big Dummy. I only “upgraded” once my Univega had
                      complete frame failure. That was a damn good aluminum frame though. I
                      probably put over 30,000 hard miles on it. Furthermore, my Big Dummy is
                      my only bike and I do not drive, so you can probably say I could justify
                      the upgrade expense. When I switched over I only bought a new Big Dummy
                      frame and fork from Xtracycle, which at the time was around $1000.
                      However, I did swap over almost all my components, which saved me money.
                      If it helps any, personally I prefer 26” wheels. It puts you that much
                      closer to the ground for a lower center of gravity when carrying a load.
                      I know that it is not that much difference, but when you add in 26” tires
                      and tubes tend to be more widely available (as in if you get a
                      non-repairable flat you can find a replacement tube/tire in many non-bike
                      stores) it makes for a decent argument.
                      Secondly, I have a strong inclination toward aluminum donor frames for
                      Xtracycle conversions. When I switched over to my steel Bug Dummy I
                      actually felt more flex than I did with my aluminum Univega. I attribute
                      that to aluminum being more stiffer/rigid than steel. I actually do not
                      feel as confident carrying significantly heavy/bulky loads with my Big
                      Dummy as I did with my Xtracycled Univega. Furthermore, an aluminum frame
                      is less weight than a steel frame. That was something else I noticed
                      about my switch to the Big Dummy. With my Univega it was obviously
                      heavier to lift up some stairs than a regular bike, but once I got the
                      Big Dummy it was a real chore. Lifting my Big Dummy was so much more of a
                      hassle I actually bought a discounted metal ramp (the kind used to roll
                      motorcycles up onto a truck-bed), which I have running up my side porch.
                      I do definitely recommend disc brake compatibility no matter what you
                      decide. I use Avid BB7 mechanical disc brakes. The FreeRadical had to use
                      a larger 203mm rotor with an adapter (at least when I had a FreeRadical,
                      I am not sure now), but the Big Dummy does not. The 203mm rotor is
                      supposed to help dissipate excess heat better when braking with a heavy
                      load in the back. However, when I switch to a Big Dummy I switched to the
                      smaller standard rotor size (160mm?) in the rear. When I still lived in
                      New York and worked as a messenger it made sense for me to have a larger
                      rotor for all that stop-and-go traffic (or more like
                      hard-brake-and-super-fast-go traffic) and generally more frequent riding.
                      Now that I live in PA and do more cruising speed riding, I think I would
                      rather just concern myself with buying an easier to find replacement
                      160mm rotor when I see it on sale somewhere, then swap whatever rotor
                      needs it first.
                      In summary, I am not familiar with all the bike model name choices you
                      specified, but I basically recommend a 26” disc-brake compatible robust
                      aluminum donor frame and rigid fork with an Xtracycle, which you can swap
                      and/or upgrade whatever components you want to. That is of course when
                      considering your budget does not encompass a Big Dummy option.
                      I hope this helps and ride safe,
                      _TONE_
                    • Jeremiah Ducate
                      a lot more wiggle than you realize can come from strapping technique.  make sure your wheel cones are tightened too,  and the headset adjusted properly. 
                      Message 10 of 12 , May 11 7:46 PM
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                        a lot more wiggle than you realize can come from strapping technique.  make sure
                        your wheel cones are tightened too,  and the headset adjusted properly.  try
                        cinching loads solid and i nearly always run at least the middle strap across
                        the top to the qr on the other side. when loaded you can't stand and rock the
                        bike for more power like most people learn to do.  also if your butt isn't on
                        the seat you lose a lot of stabilization.

                        i've seen some of the more modern volpes and if the older ones are similar they
                        dont seem to be superlight built racing bikes, more all around road bikes and i
                        would say they seem solid enough for an xtracyle.  just looked it up and it
                        looks like the first volpe was 1996 and built as a (probably light)touring
                        bike.  it should be stable enough that i would say the frame isn't to blame for
                        the shimmy unless it is broken or was damaged.

                        i thought the 700c freeradical just had different brake post mounting but i
                        could be wrong.  some older mt bike frames have pretty long chainstays. maybe
                        an older rockhopper or something. 

                        i will say one downside of the big dummy is it's heavier than a similarly built
                        xtracycle.  it sounds like an x would be fine for your use.

                        i've got a big dummy now and it is super solid.  i broke my freerad about four
                        times(in about five years) but for most people its fine and i don't consider it
                        to be a design flaw just my abuse of it.
                        also the big dummy really isn't suited for 700 wheels,  i think surly says you
                        can fit a 35 tire which really isn't wide enough for heavy duty use. i think the
                        tire clearance is slightly less than a freerad, at least officially.

                        Of your ideas i would say go with the karate monkey.  its a super versatile
                        frame you(or someone) can set up many different ways if you change your mind
                        later.  you should be able to use 26's front and back as long as you use disc
                        brakes which i would suggest anyways  they don't wear out the rims,  keeping the
                        rims stronger.

                        my rear wheel is a handbuilt, 36 db spoke,  rhynolite(xl?-the welded and
                        machined one), i had mine built on an older novatec disc hub because i thought i
                        wanted sealed bearings but if i did it over again i'd use a shimano for the
                        servicability(i broke the freehub mechanism once), probably an xt.  i've never
                        had a problem with it in about four years (barely been trued or tensioned since
                        being built) probably carrying over 300 lbs on sf streets a few times and surely
                        dropping off  curbs with 200 lbs fairly often.  and i weigh about 220.

                        hope this helps
                         




                        1a.     From: shrew13
                        1b. Re: Thoughts on way to go with 700c FreeRadical   
                            From: Rick
                        1c. Re: Thoughts on way to go with 700c FreeRadical   
                            From: gear.head@...
                        1d. Re: Thoughts on way to go with 700c FreeRadical   
                            From: David Backeberg
                        1e. Re: Thoughts on way to go with 700c FreeRadical   
                            From: David Backeberg
                        1f. Re: Thoughts on way to go with 700c FreeRadical   
                            From: gear.head@...
                        1g. Re: Thoughts on way to go with 700c FreeRadical   
                            From: shrew13
                        1h. Re: Thoughts on way to go with 700c FreeRadical   
                            From: Andrew Kreps


                        Messages
                        ________________________________________________________________________
                        1a. Thoughts on way to go with 700c FreeRadical
                            Posted by: "shrew13" shrew13@... shrew13
                            Date: Tue May 10, 2011 11:26 am ((PDT))

                        Hey folks, I'm new to the list, but looks like some good ideas popping up around
                        here.  I stumbled on the list while doing some research on which way to jump
                        with my 700c FreeRadical (FR).  I'm hoping the experience of some folks here
                        might help.

                        I had my FR hooked up to an early 90s Bianchi Volpe and it was super fun for
                        small stuff like a quick grocery run, but completely stunk for even moderately
                        heavy stuff.  A case of beer on each side scared me to death for the mile or so
                        home.  It wiggled and shimmied so much I thought I was going to end out on the
                        ground, in traffic, or both.

                        This weekend I picked up a used 26" disc equipped mountain bike (Banshee Viento)
                        that I was going to swap the FR to.  But I found that the 41cm minimum chainstay
                        requirement for the 700c FR on the xtracycle website is a bit short - the Viento
                        supposedly has 41.9cm chainstays but the FR tongue is going to have to be
                        somewhere inside the seat tube for it to work.  And I checked the geometry of a
                        couple of other MTBs and found them similar (Surly 1X1, Redline Monocog 26,
                        etc), so they look like they're out as well.  I'm thinking about a couple of
                        options and hoping someone has tried one or more of the options below and can
                        comment:

                        1) Sell the 700c FR and buy a 26" FR - not big on this idea since I know they've
                        made some design changes in the FR and it looks like some bags don't fit older
                        models, etc.  This all fits together and works nicely other than the shimmy. 
                        Not to mention, I don't intend on carrying HUGELY heavy loads very often.  More
                        often it will be a 40 pound bag of dog food, a big bag of potting soil, my four
                        year old and a couple of lawn chairs, or a run to the farmer's market.

                        2) Sell the Banshee and my old Volpe, pick up a 700c frame like a Surly Cross
                        Check, and build up a much heavier rear wheel.  I'm thinking either a 36 hole XT
                        hub, or possibly a 40 hole tandem hub re-spaced to 135mm, and lace it to a
                        Velocity Deep V/Dyad/Mavic A719 using heavier spokes (DT Alpine?).  That should
                        leave a stiff frame, stiff rim, shorter spokes if I go with the Deep V, and
                        provide a good bit of toughness while still being a bit more high speed friendly
                        than a 26" wheeled setup since I don't usually carry big loads.

                        3) Sell the Banshee and my old Volpe and pick up a Karate Monkey, use the 26"
                        disc wheels that were on the Banshee (XT hubs laced to Sun Rhino Lite rims) and
                        run huge 26" tires like the Big Apple to give me some suspension and provide a
                        total diameter more like a 700c.

                        Anybody got a thought?

                        Thanks all!
                        shrewboy
                        Lancaster, PA






                        Messages in this topic (8)
                        ________________________________________________________________________
                        1b. Re: Thoughts on way to go with 700c FreeRadical
                            Posted by: "Rick" rick@... rickpickett3
                            Date: Tue May 10, 2011 11:41 am ((PDT))

                        > 1) Sell the 700c FR and buy a 26" FR - not big on this idea since I know
                        >they've made some design changes in the FR and it looks like some bags don't fit
                        >older models, etc. This all fits together and works nicely other than the
                        >shimmy. Not to mention, I don't intend on carrying HUGELY heavy loads very
                        >often. More often it will be a 40 pound bag of dog food, a big bag of potting
                        >soil, my four year old and a couple of lawn chairs, or a run to the farmer's
                        >market.

                        The bags will fit using the RetroFit Kit, so you might not need to change unless
                        you're using rim brakes and drop to a 26" rear wheel. The smaller wheel (with
                        straight gauge spokes, brass nipples, strong box construction/or deep V rim, and
                        large flange hub) will help reduce that shimmy and flex you're feeling.

                        >
                        > 2) Sell the Banshee and my old Volpe, pick up a 700c frame like a Surly Cross
                        >Check, and build up a much heavier rear wheel. I'm thinking either a 36 hole XT
                        >hub, or possibly a 40 hole tandem hub re-spaced to 135mm, and lace it to a
                        >Velocity Deep V/Dyad/Mavic A719 using heavier spokes (DT Alpine?). That should
                        >leave a stiff frame, stiff rim, shorter spokes if I go with the Deep V, and
                        >provide a good bit of toughness while still being a bit more high speed friendly
                        >than a 26" wheeled setup since I don't usually carry big loads.

                        I think you could get by with that wheel build on a 26" and keep a 700c wheel up
                        front. Know a lot of people choose that mixmash setup and enjoy it. The loss of
                        wheel diameter won't be that much of an impact I think.

                        >
                        > 3) Sell the Banshee and my old Volpe and pick up a Karate Monkey, use the 26"
                        >disc wheels that were on the Banshee (XT hubs laced to Sun Rhino Lite rims) and
                        >run huge 26" tires like the Big Apple to give me some suspension and provide a
                        >total diameter more like a 700c.

                        I love my Maxxiss Hookworms for their 2.5" curb chomping ability. #3 sounds like
                        the best bet if you can sell the Banshee w/ or w/o another wheelset.

                        Cheers,
                        Rick





                        Messages in this topic (8)
                        ________________________________________________________________________
                        1c. Re: Thoughts on way to go with 700c FreeRadical
                            Posted by: "gear.head@..." gear.head@...
                        gear.head@...
                            Date: Tue May 10, 2011 11:51 am ((PDT))

                        If you are going to spend money on a new frame buy a big dummy, build it up with
                        your existing parts and sell off what's left. The BD will take a 700, 650 or 26"
                        wheel.

                        Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: "shrew13" <shrew13@...>
                        Sender: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 18:10:54
                        To: <rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com>
                        Reply-to: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.comSubject: [rootsradicals] Thoughts on way
                        to go with 700c FreeRadical

                        Hey folks, I'm new to the list, but looks like some good ideas popping up around
                        here.  I stumbled on the list while doing some research on which way to jump
                        with my 700c FreeRadical (FR).  I'm hoping the experience of some folks here
                        might help.

                        I had my FR hooked up to an early 90s Bianchi Volpe and it was super fun for
                        small stuff like a quick grocery run, but completely stunk for even moderately
                        heavy stuff.  A case of beer on each side scared me to death for the mile or so
                        home.  It wiggled and shimmied so much I thought I was going to end out on the
                        ground, in traffic, or both.

                        This weekend I picked up a used 26" disc equipped mountain bike (Banshee Viento)
                        that I was going to swap the FR to.  But I found that the 41cm minimum chainstay
                        requirement for the 700c FR on the xtracycle website is a bit short - the Viento
                        supposedly has 41.9cm chainstays but the FR tongue is going to have to be
                        somewhere inside the seat tube for it to work.  And I checked the geometry of a
                        couple of other MTBs and found them similar (Surly 1X1, Redline Monocog 26,
                        etc), so they look like they're out as well.  I'm thinking about a couple of
                        options and hoping someone has tried one or more of the options below and can
                        comment:

                        1) Sell the 700c FR and buy a 26" FR - not big on this idea since I know they've
                        made some design changes in the FR and it looks like some bags don't fit older
                        models, etc.  This all fits together and works nicely other than the shimmy. 
                        Not to mention, I don't intend on carrying HUGELY heavy loads very often.  More
                        often it will be a 40 pound bag of dog food, a big bag of potting soil, my four
                        year old and a couple of lawn chairs, or a run to the farmer's market.

                        2) Sell the Banshee and my old Volpe, pick up a 700c frame like a Surly Cross
                        Check, and build up a much heavier rear wheel.  I'm thinking either a 36 hole XT
                        hub, or possibly a 40 hole tandem hub re-spaced to 135mm, and lace it to a
                        Velocity Deep V/Dyad/Mavic A719 using heavier spokes (DT Alpine?).  That should
                        leave a stiff frame, stiff rim, shorter spokes if I go with the Deep V, and
                        provide a good bit of toughness while still being a bit more high speed friendly
                        than a 26" wheeled setup since I don't usually carry big loads.

                        3) Sell the Banshee and my old Volpe and pick up a Karate Monkey, use the 26"
                        disc wheels that were on the Banshee (XT hubs laced to Sun Rhino Lite rims) and
                        run huge 26" tires like the Big Apple to give me some suspension and provide a
                        total diameter more like a 700c.

                        Anybody got a thought?

                        Thanks all!
                        shrewboy
                        Lancaster, PA






                        Messages in this topic (8)
                        ________________________________________________________________________
                        1d. Re: Thoughts on way to go with 700c FreeRadical
                            Posted by: "David Backeberg" dbackeberg@... le-tour-rider
                            Date: Tue May 10, 2011 11:55 am ((PDT))

                        On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 2:10 PM, shrew13 <shrew13@...> wrote:
                        >etc), so they look like they're out as well. I'm thinking about a couple of
                        >options and hoping >someone has tried one or more of the options below and can
                        >comment:

                        I was in a similar boat several months ago.

                        I worked out the math, and it was seeming like it was a better deal to
                        buy a Radish than do all the work I was going to do to get my ride the
                        way I wanted it.

                        Then I talked it over with my trusted buddy at the LBS, and he
                        convinced me that I should really go with a Big Dummy (complete)
                        instead.

                        I'll tell you I'm not having a shimmy problem, it's a very nice ride,
                        everything works like it should. It's a really great bike that I plan
                        to ride for a long time.

                        Only issues I can think about why you wouldn't do the Big Dummy
                        * if your budget doesn't allow, but make sure you consider the entire
                        budget, including the cost to get the parts you already have, and
                        presumably could sell
                        * if Surly / xtracycle doesn't have inventory on Big Dummy when you want it

                        I put my order in Dec. 2010 and got my bike Mar. 2011.





                        Messages in this topic (8)
                        ________________________________________________________________________
                        1e. Re: Thoughts on way to go with 700c FreeRadical
                            Posted by: "David Backeberg" dbackeberg@... le-tour-rider
                            Date: Tue May 10, 2011 12:00 pm ((PDT))

                        On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 2:55 PM, David Backeberg <dbackeberg@...> wrote:
                        > On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 2:10 PM, shrew13 <shrew13@...> wrote:
                        >>etc), so they look like they're out as well. I'm thinking about a couple of
                        >>options and hoping >someone has tried one or more of the options below and can
                        >>comment:
                        > Only issues I can think about why you wouldn't do the Big Dummy
                        > * if your budget doesn't allow, but make sure you consider the entire
                        > budget, including the cost to get the parts you already have, and
                        > presumably could sell
                        > * if Surly / xtracycle doesn't have inventory on Big Dummy when you want it

                        I thought of another reason you wouldn't do Big Dummy.

                        Because you bought a Yuba Mundo instead. There's three in town now and
                        the nice thing if you're planning on kid hauling is that the frame is
                        already pre-built for the 'running boards'. You can still do the
                        xtracycle accessories, but you get a little more 'built-in'.





                        Messages in this topic (8)
                        ________________________________________________________________________
                        1f. Re: Thoughts on way to go with 700c FreeRadical
                            Posted by: "gear.head@..." gear.head@...
                        gear.head@...
                            Date: Tue May 10, 2011 12:04 pm ((PDT))

                        I ordered my dummy from REI and had it in a week (frame only). Just built it two
                        weeks ago. It is way more stable than my previous set up which was a FR on a
                        Diamondback mountain frame. I used all the components from my old bike too
                        (saved a lot of money).
                        Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: David Backeberg <dbackeberg@...>
                        Sender: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 14:55:47
                        To: <rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com>
                        Reply-to: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [rootsradicals] Thoughts on
                        way to go with 700c FreeRadical

                        On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 2:10 PM, shrew13 <shrew13@...> wrote:
                        >etc), so they look like they're out as well. I'm thinking about a couple of
                        >options and hoping >someone has tried one or more of the options below and can
                        >comment:

                        I was in a similar boat several months ago.

                        I worked out the math, and it was seeming like it was a better deal to
                        buy a Radish than do all the work I was going to do to get my ride the
                        way I wanted it.

                        Then I talked it over with my trusted buddy at the LBS, and he
                        convinced me that I should really go with a Big Dummy (complete)
                        instead.

                        I'll tell you I'm not having a shimmy problem, it's a very nice ride,
                        everything works like it should. It's a really great bike that I plan
                        to ride for a long time.

                        Only issues I can think about why you wouldn't do the Big Dummy
                        * if your budget doesn't allow, but make sure you consider the entire
                        budget, including the cost to get the parts you already have, and
                        presumably could sell
                        * if Surly / xtracycle doesn't have inventory on Big Dummy when you want it

                        I put my order in Dec. 2010 and got my bike Mar. 2011.





                        Messages in this topic (8)
                        ________________________________________________________________________
                        1g. Re: Thoughts on way to go with 700c FreeRadical
                            Posted by: "shrew13" shrew13@... shrew13
                            Date: Tue May 10, 2011 2:00 pm ((PDT))

                        I have to admit the Big Dummy is really cool, but the price is pretty much a
                        deal breaker for me.  I saw where the 2011 frame were $950 at xtracycle.com.  I
                        haven't seen but a couple of Big Dummy setups on the used market, and they were
                        still pricey.  The Karate Monkey or Cross Check are about half that when new,
                        and both show up used pretty often.  If I were using this all the time and
                        considering going fully car-free, I'd probably consider the extra expense.  But
                        for occasional use, I'd have a hard time justifying the extra $600 or so -
                        basing that on a new Dummy @ $950 versus a used Cross Check at somewhere in the
                        $350 range, possibly less if I get one that's been a little move "loved".  The
                        cost can't stop me from checking out the galleries online, though!

                        --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, gear.head@... wrote:
                        >
                        > If you are going to spend money on a new frame buy a big dummy, build it up
                        >with your existing parts and sell off what's left. The BD will take a 700, 650
                        >or 26" wheel.
                        >
                        > Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: "shrew13" <shrew13@...>
                        > Sender: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
                        > Date: Tue, 10 May 2011 18:10:54
                        > To: <rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com>
                        > Reply-to: rootsradicals@...: [rootsradicals] Thoughts on way to go with 700c
                        >FreeRadical
                        >
                        > Hey folks, I'm new to the list, but looks like some good ideas popping up
                        >around here.  I stumbled on the list while doing some research on which way to
                        >jump with my 700c FreeRadical (FR).  I'm hoping the experience of some folks
                        >here might help.
                        >
                        > I had my FR hooked up to an early 90s Bianchi Volpe and it was super fun for
                        >small stuff like a quick grocery run, but completely stunk for even moderately
                        >heavy stuff.  A case of beer on each side scared me to death for the mile or so
                        >home.  It wiggled and shimmied so much I thought I was going to end out on the
                        >ground, in traffic, or both.
                        >
                        > This weekend I picked up a used 26" disc equipped mountain bike (Banshee
                        >Viento) that I was going to swap the FR to.  But I found that the 41cm minimum
                        >chainstay requirement for the 700c FR on the xtracycle website is a bit short -
                        >the Viento supposedly has 41.9cm chainstays but the FR tongue is going to have
                        >to be somewhere inside the seat tube for it to work.  And I checked the geometry
                        >of a couple of other MTBs and found them similar (Surly 1X1, Redline Monocog 26,
                        >etc), so they look like they're out as well.  I'm thinking about a couple of
                        >options and hoping someone has tried one or more of the options below and can
                        >comment:
                        >
                        > 1) Sell the 700c FR and buy a 26" FR - not big on this idea since I know
                        >they've made some design changes in the FR and it looks like some bags don't fit
                        >older models, etc.  This all fits together and works nicely other than the
                        >shimmy.  Not to mention, I don't intend on carrying HUGELY heavy loads very
                        >often.  More often it will be a 40 pound bag of dog food, a big bag of potting
                        >soil, my four year old and a couple of lawn chairs, or a run to the farmer's
                        >market.
                        >
                        > 2) Sell the Banshee and my old Volpe, pick up a 700c frame like a Surly Cross
                        >Check, and build up a much heavier rear wheel.  I'm thinking either a 36 hole XT
                        >hub, or possibly a 40 hole tandem hub re-spaced to 135mm, and lace it to a
                        >Velocity Deep V/Dyad/Mavic A719 using heavier spokes (DT Alpine?).  That should
                        >leave a stiff frame, stiff rim, shorter spokes if I go with the Deep V, and
                        >provide a good bit of toughness while still being a bit more high speed friendly
                        >than a 26" wheeled setup since I don't usually carry big loads.
                        >
                        > 3) Sell the Banshee and my old Volpe and pick up a Karate Monkey, use the 26"
                        >disc wheels that were on the Banshee (XT hubs laced to Sun Rhino Lite rims) and
                        >run huge 26" tires like the Big Apple to give me some suspension and provide a
                        >total diameter more like a 700c.
                        >
                        > Anybody got a thought?
                        >
                        > Thanks all!
                        > shrewboy
                        > Lancaster, PA
                        >







                        Messages in this topic (8)
                        ________________________________________________________________________
                        1h. Re: Thoughts on way to go with 700c FreeRadical
                            Posted by: "Andrew Kreps" andrew.kreps@... onewheelskyward
                            Date: Tue May 10, 2011 3:11 pm ((PDT))

                        On Tue, May 10, 2011 at 1:30 PM, shrew13 <shrew13@...> wrote:
                        > But for occasional use, I'd have a hard time justifying the extra $600 or so -
                        >basing that on a new Dummy @ $950
                        > versus a used Cross Check at somewhere in the $350 range, possibly less if I
                        >get one that's been a little move "loved".
                        > The cost can't stop me from checking out the galleries online, though!


                        You have to remember, the Big Dummy frame includes the price of the
                        Free Radical frame, which is about $239 these days.  And the Big Dummy
                        is, quite simply, bombproof.  I've been trying to kill mine for over
                        two years now.  I've burned up a cross country wheel, but everything
                        else is taut and responsive.





                        Messages in this topic (8)



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                      • Punditus Maximus
                        ... Maybe I m confused, but I didn t think that there was a 700c FR and a 26 FR. There s a FR with an optional conversion kit for 700c rim brakes . . .
                        Message 11 of 12 , Jun 13, 2011
                        • 0 Attachment
                          > 1) Sell the 700c FR and buy a 26" FR - not big on this idea since I know they've made some design changes in the FR and it looks like some bags don't fit older models, etc. This all fits together and works nicely other than the shimmy. Not to mention, I don't intend on carrying HUGELY heavy loads very often. More often it will be a 40 pound bag of dog food, a big bag of potting soil, my four year old and a couple of lawn chairs, or a run to the farmer's market.
                          >


                          Maybe I'm confused, but I didn't think that there was a 700c FR and a 26" FR. There's a FR with an optional conversion kit for 700c rim brakes . . . right?
                        • Rich W
                          So far as I know that is correct currently. Apparently there used to be a 700C rim brakes compatible version available that did not need the brake adapter but
                          Message 12 of 12 , Jun 13, 2011
                          • 0 Attachment
                            So far as I know that is correct currently. Apparently there used to be a 700C rim brakes compatible version available that did not need the brake adapter but I believe that was the only difference. Due to wideloader mounting points dimensions the limits on overall wheel diameter were the same for either version of the Freeradical. With 700C wheels tire size is limited to about 35mm maximum while 26" wheels can have upto 2.5" wide tires fitted.

                            A heavier duty 29er compatible Freeradical was talked about some time back and prototypes made but it has not made it into production yet. I I personally would like to see it introduced.

                            Rich Wood

                            --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Punditus Maximus" <kimmitt23@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > > 1) Sell the 700c FR and buy a 26" FR - not big on this idea since I know they've made some design changes in the FR and it looks like some bags don't fit older models, etc. This all fits together and works nicely other than the shimmy. Not to mention, I don't intend on carrying HUGELY heavy loads very often. More often it will be a 40 pound bag of dog food, a big bag of potting soil, my four year old and a couple of lawn chairs, or a run to the farmer's market.
                            > >
                            >
                            >
                            > Maybe I'm confused, but I didn't think that there was a 700c FR and a 26" FR. There's a FR with an optional conversion kit for 700c rim brakes . . . right?
                            >
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