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power assist!

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  • Mark Garvey
    When I was setting up my Xtracycle today, I seriously thought about removing my power assist and doing without it. I even rode it a bit with no battery pack
    Message 1 of 12 , Jul 31, 2007
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      When I was setting up my Xtracycle today, I seriously thought about removing my power assist and doing without it.   I even rode it a bit with no battery pack because the power cord was not long enough and a friend was begged to lengthen it (he did!) so until it was returned, I rode with only the extra 8 lb motor hanging off the left side of the rear wheel.

      Unfortunately, that motor makes the bike MORE practical than my car!  the X is now a Super commuting mama!  I LOVE it!  I can haul my stuff to work on Monday AM without a trailer and I plan to set up to be able to pull a trailer if necessary.  this is WAY too cool.   I took a second round ride this evening after hooking the motor up and rode to the local park, JUST super!  and I mean extremely good!  Small adjustments still need to be made, but this may be the best bike ever!

      mark

      --
      Putting the fun in dysfunctional for over 50 years!


      Mark  Garvey
      Cedar Rapids, Iowa free state!

      Check out the web site at:
      http://www.vine-ave.com   

      contact us to have INVISIBLE INC! appear at your next program!  Details at www.vine-ave.com

      I am a bicycling lifestylist!
    • Nathan Klatt
      ... Arguments of purity aside, this put a huge smile on my face! Arguments of purity NOT aside, what if the electric assist would only give out what was put
      Message 2 of 12 , Aug 1, 2007
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        On 7/31/07, Mark Garvey <lazybee45@...> wrote:
        > Unfortunately, that motor makes the bike MORE practical than my car!

        Arguments of purity aside, this put a huge smile on my face!

        Arguments of purity NOT aside, what if the electric assist would only
        give out what was put into it by the rider directly? I.e., if you
        never plug the battery in and, instead, it charges using regenerative
        braking? Like you could add some small amount of drag when you're on
        the flats and going downhill to charge it then get it back when going
        up? How would that affect the purity of bicycling?
      • Mark Garvey
        ... Anyone who worries about purity except in a sense of water or foodstuffs is not living in the real world! It is kind of like a recital my sister gave
        Message 3 of 12 , Aug 1, 2007
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          On 8/1/07, Nathan Klatt <n8klatt@...> wrote:
          On 7/31/07, Mark Garvey <lazybee45@...> wrote:
          > Unfortunately, that motor makes the bike MORE practical than my car!

          Arguments of purity aside, this put a huge smile on my face!

          Arguments of purity NOT aside, what if the electric assist would only
          give out what was put into it by the rider directly?  I.e., if you
          never plug the battery in and, instead, it charges using regenerative
          braking?  Like you could add some small amount of drag when you're on
          the flats and going downhill to charge it then get it back when going
          up?  How would that affect the purity of bicycling?

          Well, Personally i don't give a hang about the "purity" of cycling.  Anyone who worries about "purity" except in a sense of water or foodstuffs is not living in the real world!  It is kind of like a recital my sister gave once.  It was all German Lieder, which may well be the most awful and boring music ever to be considered as part of a classical music program!  Imagine if you will, a song with lines like "You WILL love me, you are mine because I desire you!  You have the beauty of a finely machined engine part!" sung in German, to a group of stern faced judges who are picking on inflection, meter, tonal quality and all that sort of thing. 

          The real world happens OUTSIDE the college where kids play improvised instruments and do wop for tips!  Try huckstering Lieter THERE!

          But I digress!  I like what WORKS.  My only beef with e assist is the weight.  My lovely light bike has become heavy!  It bothers me, but it WORKS!

          mark
          --
          Putting the fun in dysfunctional for over 50 years!


          Mark  Garvey
          Cedar Rapids, Iowa free state!

          Check out the web site at:
          http://www.vine-ave.com   

          contact us to have INVISIBLE INC! appear at your next program!  Details at www.vine-ave.com

          I am a bicycling lifestylist!
        • tyler_rudkin
          Check out the Bion-X system for egenerative charging on downhills/flats. My Xtracycle is going on a Giant Lite (electric bike). I commute on a road bike
          Message 4 of 12 , Aug 1, 2007
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            Check out the Bion-X system for egenerative charging on
            downhills/flats.

            My Xtracycle is going on a Giant Lite (electric bike). I commute on
            a road bike because I can go much faster than my eBike ever could,
            and like the exercise. However, after that commute, the eBike is a
            deciding factor in pulling my kids to the ice cream shop after work
            or running an errand by bike vs. car.

            The same should hold true for the Xtracycle.

            --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Garvey" <lazybee45@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > On 8/1/07, Nathan Klatt <n8klatt@...> wrote:
            > >
            > > On 7/31/07, Mark Garvey <lazybee45@...> wrote:
            > > > Unfortunately, that motor makes the bike MORE practical than
            my car!
            > >
            > > Arguments of purity aside, this put a huge smile on my face!
            > >
            > > Arguments of purity NOT aside, what if the electric assist would
            only
            > > give out what was put into it by the rider directly? I.e., if
            you
            > > never plug the battery in and, instead, it charges using
            regenerative
            > > braking? Like you could add some small amount of drag when
            you're on
            > > the flats and going downhill to charge it then get it back when
            going
            > > up? How would that affect the purity of bicycling?
            > >
            > > Well, Personally i don't give a hang about the "purity" of
            cycling.
            > Anyone who worries about "purity" except in a sense of water or
            foodstuffs
            > is not living in the real world! It is kind of like a recital my
            sister
            > gave once. It was all German Lieder, which may well be the most
            awful and
            > boring music ever to be considered as part of a classical music
            program!
            > Imagine if you will, a song with lines like "You WILL love me, you
            are mine
            > because I desire you! You have the beauty of a finely machined
            engine
            > part!" sung in German, to a group of stern faced judges who are
            picking on
            > inflection, meter, tonal quality and all that sort of thing.
            >
            > The real world happens OUTSIDE the college where kids play
            improvised
            > instruments and do wop for tips! Try huckstering Lieter THERE!
            >
            > But I digress! I like what WORKS. My only beef with e assist is
            the
            > weight. My lovely light bike has become heavy! It bothers me,
            but it
            > WORKS!
            >
            > mark
            > --
            > Putting the fun in dysfunctional for over 50 years!
            >
            >
            > Mark Garvey
            > Cedar Rapids, Iowa free state!
            >
            > Check out the web site at:
            > http://www.vine-ave.com
            >
            > contact us to have INVISIBLE INC! appear at your next program!
            Details at
            > www.vine-ave.com
            >
            > I am a bicycling lifestylist!
            >
          • Mark Garvey
            Well, on my Trike I was averaging about 9 mph generally, with power assist It was about 10-12 mph. On my Mountain bike with road tires (Primo Comets) I can
            Message 5 of 12 , Aug 1, 2007
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              Well, on my Trike I was averaging about 9 mph generally, with power assist It was about 10-12 mph.  On my Mountain bike with road tires (Primo Comets) I can average about 11-12 mph but with the PA running I can blow through 13-14 mph.  I did 28 miles today in 2 hours and a few seconds, missing 14 mph average for 2 hours by only a few hundred yards!  Note that I am 54 years old,  and weigh 240 more or less.   I rode 20 miles over lunch time  (I got a 2 hour lunch today!) and totalled 36 miles today with my X.  I am digging it more and more!  I did a modest grocery run this afternoon and only picked up 6 bags of groceries, I had room for more!  and NO TRAILER!   I plan to add a hitch for my Kiddie trailer and my little utility trailer so that I do have that option if I need it!  But overall the X is delightful!

              By the way, the BionX has a regen system, but I have a feeling that while it is a working system and does have an effect, it may be more flash than utility!  My Currie USPD system is very simple and works really well!  The Stokemonkey and Cyclone systems run through the gears to improve efficiency.  My Currie starts to groan a bit when it gets down to 8 or 9 mph!

              mark

              On 8/1/07, tyler_rudkin <tyler_rudkin@...> wrote:
              Check out the Bion-X system for egenerative charging on
              downhills/flats.

              My Xtracycle is going on a Giant Lite (electric bike).  I commute on
              a road bike because I can go much faster than my eBike ever could,
              and like the exercise.  However, after that commute, the eBike is a
              deciding factor in pulling my kids to the ice cream shop after work
              or running an errand by bike vs. car.

              The same should hold true for the Xtracycle.

              --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Garvey" <lazybee45@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > On 8/1/07, Nathan Klatt <n8klatt@...> wrote:
              > >
              > > On 7/31/07, Mark Garvey <lazybee45@...> wrote:
              > > > Unfortunately, that motor makes the bike MORE practical than
              my car!
              > >
              > > Arguments of purity aside, this put a huge smile on my face!
              > >
              > > Arguments of purity NOT aside, what if the electric assist would
              only
              > > give out what was put into it by the rider directly?  I.e., if
              you
              > > never plug the battery in and, instead, it charges using
              regenerative
              > > braking?  Like you could add some small amount of drag when
              you're on
              > > the flats and going downhill to charge it then get it back when
              going
              > > up?  How would that affect the purity of bicycling?
              > >
              > > Well, Personally i don't give a hang about the "purity" of
              cycling.
              > Anyone who worries about "purity" except in a sense of water or
              foodstuffs
              > is not living in the real world!  It is kind of like a recital my
              sister
              > gave once.  It was all German Lieder, which may well be the most
              awful and
              > boring music ever to be considered as part of a classical music
              program!
              > Imagine if you will, a song with lines like "You WILL love me, you
              are mine
              > because I desire you!  You have the beauty of a finely machined
              engine
              > part!" sung in German, to a group of stern faced judges who are
              picking on
              > inflection, meter, tonal quality and all that sort of thing.
              >
              > The real world happens OUTSIDE the college where kids play
              improvised
              > instruments and do wop for tips!  Try huckstering Lieter THERE!
              >
              > But I digress!  I like what WORKS.  My only beef with e assist is
              the
              > weight.  My lovely light bike has become heavy!  It bothers me,
              but it
              > WORKS!
              >
              > mark
              > --
              > Putting the fun in dysfunctional for over 50 years!
              >
              >
              > Mark  Garvey
              > Cedar Rapids, Iowa free state!
              >
              > Check out the web site at:
              > http://www.vine-ave.com
              >
              > contact us to have INVISIBLE INC! appear at your next program!
              Details at
              > www.vine-ave.com
              >
              > I am a bicycling lifestylist!
              >




              You're getting this message because you signed up to be an Xtracycle roots radical.

              To Post a message, send it to:          rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com


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              --
              Putting the fun in dysfunctional for over 50 years!


              Mark  Garvey
              Cedar Rapids, Iowa free state!

              Check out the web site at:
              http://www.vine-ave.com  

              contact us to have INVISIBLE INC! appear at your next program!  Details at www.vine-ave.com

              I am a bicycling lifestylist!
            • Ryano
              Sanyo already makes an electric bicycle with regenerative braking. My mother-in-law bought one this Spring and absolutely loves it. She lives in a hilly
              Message 6 of 12 , Aug 2, 2007
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                Sanyo already makes an electric bicycle with regenerative braking.  My mother-in-law bought one this Spring and absolutely loves it.  She lives in a hilly area, where the regenerative system is particularly useful.  It is called the "Enacle" http://www.e-life-sanyo.com/bicycle/

                Really pretty cool.  I haven't tried, but would not be surprised if you could actually fit an Xtracycle onto one of these, because the motor runs from around the bottom bracket, not the hub, just like the Giant Lite someone mentioned - which incidentally is basically a National Panasonic e-bike adapted to American tastes.  My wife also uses a Panasonic e-bike and it really is pretty sweet if you are hauling things (and kids).  I certainly can manage without and prefer something light and simple, but millions of Japanese housewives rely on e-bikes and if that keeps them from buying cars, who are we to scoff at them.  And because of all those millions of sales, the Japanese e-bike makers really do have it down pat.  I'm really surprised they don't already have factories in Kansas making them for Americans also.


                On 02/08/07, Mark Garvey <lazybee45@...> wrote:

                Well, on my Trike I was averaging about 9 mph generally, with power assist It was about 10-12 mph.  On my Mountain bike with road tires (Primo Comets) I can average about 11-12 mph but with the PA running I can blow through 13-14 mph.  I did 28 miles today in 2 hours and a few seconds, missing 14 mph average for 2 hours by only a few hundred yards!  Note that I am 54 years old,  and weigh 240 more or less.   I rode 20 miles over lunch time  (I got a 2 hour lunch today!) and totalled 36 miles today with my X.  I am digging it more and more!  I did a modest grocery run this afternoon and only picked up 6 bags of groceries, I had room for more!  and NO TRAILER!   I plan to add a hitch for my Kiddie trailer and my little utility trailer so that I do have that option if I need it!  But overall the X is delightful!

                By the way, the BionX has a regen system, but I have a feeling that while it is a working system and does have an effect, it may be more flash than utility!  My Currie USPD system is very simple and works really well!  The Stokemonkey and Cyclone systems run through the gears to improve efficiency.  My Currie starts to groan a bit when it gets down to 8 or 9 mph!

                mark

                On 8/1/07, tyler_rudkin < tyler_rudkin@...> wrote:
                Check out the Bion-X system for egenerative charging on
                downhills/flats.

                My Xtracycle is going on a Giant Lite (electric bike).  I commute on
                a road bike because I can go much faster than my eBike ever could,
                and like the exercise.  However, after that commute, the eBike is a
                deciding factor in pulling my kids to the ice cream shop after work
                or running an errand by bike vs. car.

                The same should hold true for the Xtracycle.

                --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Garvey" <lazybee45@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > On 8/1/07, Nathan Klatt <n8klatt@...> wrote:
                > >
                > > On 7/31/07, Mark Garvey <lazybee45@...> wrote:
                > > > Unfortunately, that motor makes the bike MORE practical than
                my car!
                > >
                > > Arguments of purity aside, this put a huge smile on my face!
                > >
                > > Arguments of purity NOT aside, what if the electric assist would
                only
                > > give out what was put into it by the rider directly?  I.e., if
                you
                > > never plug the battery in and, instead, it charges using
                regenerative
                > > braking?  Like you could add some small amount of drag when
                you're on
                > > the flats and going downhill to charge it then get it back when
                going
                > > up?  How would that affect the purity of bicycling?
                > >
                > > Well, Personally i don't give a hang about the "purity" of
                cycling.
                > Anyone who worries about "purity" except in a sense of water or
                foodstuffs
                > is not living in the real world!  It is kind of like a recital my
                sister
                > gave once.  It was all German Lieder, which may well be the most
                awful and
                > boring music ever to be considered as part of a classical music
                program!
                > Imagine if you will, a song with lines like "You WILL love me, you
                are mine
                > because I desire you!  You have the beauty of a finely machined
                engine
                > part!" sung in German, to a group of stern faced judges who are
                picking on
                > inflection, meter, tonal quality and all that sort of thing.
                >
                > The real world happens OUTSIDE the college where kids play
                improvised
                > instruments and do wop for tips!  Try huckstering Lieter THERE!
                >
                > But I digress!  I like what WORKS.  My only beef with e assist is
                the
                > weight.  My lovely light bike has become heavy!  It bothers me,
                but it
                > WORKS!
                >
                > mark
                > --
                > Putting the fun in dysfunctional for over 50 years!
                >
                >
                > Mark  Garvey
                > Cedar Rapids, Iowa free state!
                >
                > Check out the web site at:
                > http://www.vine-ave.com
                >
                > contact us to have INVISIBLE INC! appear at your next program!
                Details at
                > www.vine-ave.com
                >
                > I am a bicycling lifestylist!
                >




                You're getting this message because you signed up to be an Xtracycle roots radical.

                To Post a message, send it to:          rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com


                ride to believe.
                Yahoo! Groups Links

                <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rootsradicals/

                <*> Your email settings:
                    Individual Email | Traditional

                <*> To change settings online go to:
                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rootsradicals/join
                    (Yahoo! ID required)

                <*> To change settings via email:
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                --
                Putting the fun in dysfunctional for over 50 years!


                Mark  Garvey
                Cedar Rapids, Iowa free state!

                Check out the web site at:
                http://www.vine-ave.com  

                contact us to have INVISIBLE INC! appear at your next program!  Details at www.vine-ave.com

                I am a bicycling lifestylist!


              • Mighk Wilson
                Perhaps someone could design a motorized single-wheel trailer that pushes the bike? That way you could attach the trailer only when you needed a boost. No
                Message 7 of 12 , Aug 2, 2007
                • 0 Attachment
                  Perhaps someone could design a motorized single-wheel trailer that pushes the bike? That way you could attach the trailer only when you needed a boost. No drivetrain complications either, just a controller line from the handlebars to the back of the bike to connect.

                  There's also some outfit developing a hydraulic transmission system that's evidently scaleable (not the NuVinci hub; this is for the propulsion part of the drivetrain, not for shifting). It would use hydraulics to store energy for regenerative braking. UPS is very interested in it with all their stop & go driving. The article I read on it said the inventors were also talking to a major bicycle manufacturer.

                  Mighk

                  ________________________________________
                  From: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com [mailto:rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ryano
                  Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 8:32 AM
                  To: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [rootsradicals] Re: power assist!

                  Sanyo already makes an electric bicycle with regenerative braking.  My mother-in-law bought one this Spring and absolutely loves it.  She lives in a hilly area, where the regenerative system is particularly useful.  It is called the "Enacle" http://www.e-life-sanyo.com/bicycle/

                  Really pretty cool.  I haven't tried, but would not be surprised if you could actually fit an Xtracycle onto one of these, because the motor runs from around the bottom bracket, not the hub, just like the Giant Lite someone mentioned - which incidentally is basically a National Panasonic e-bike adapted to American tastes.  My wife also uses a Panasonic e-bike and it really is pretty sweet if you are hauling things (and kids).  I certainly can manage without and prefer something light and simple, but millions of Japanese housewives rely on e-bikes and if that keeps them from buying cars, who are we to scoff at them.  And because of all those millions of sales, the Japanese e-bike makers really do have it down pat.  I'm really surprised they don't already have factories in Kansas making them for Americans also.

                  On 02/08/07, Mark Garvey <lazybee45@...> wrote:
                  Well, on my Trike I was averaging about 9 mph generally, with power assist It was about 10-12 mph.  On my Mountain bike with road tires (Primo Comets) I can average about 11-12 mph but with the PA running I can blow through 13-14 mph.  I did 28 miles today in 2 hours and a few seconds, missing 14 mph average for 2 hours by only a few hundred yards!  Note that I am 54 years old,  and weigh 240 more or less.   I rode 20 miles over lunch time  (I got a 2 hour lunch today!) and totalled 36 miles today with my X.  I am digging it more and more!  I did a modest grocery run this afternoon and only picked up 6 bags of groceries, I had room for more!  and NO TRAILER!   I plan to add a hitch for my Kiddie trailer and my little utility trailer so that I do have that option if I need it!  But overall the X is delightful!

                  By the way, the BionX has a regen system, but I have a feeling that while it is a working system and does have an effect, it may be more flash than utility!  My Currie USPD system is very simple and works really well!  The Stokemonkey and Cyclone systems run through the gears to improve efficiency.  My Currie starts to groan a bit when it gets down to 8 or 9 mph!

                  mark
                  On 8/1/07, tyler_rudkin < tyler_rudkin@...> wrote:
                  Check out the Bion-X system for egenerative charging on
                  downhills/flats.

                  My Xtracycle is going on a Giant Lite (electric bike).  I commute on
                  a road bike because I can go much faster than my eBike ever could,
                  and like the exercise.  However, after that commute, the eBike is a
                  deciding factor in pulling my kids to the ice cream shop after work
                  or running an errand by bike vs. car.

                  The same should hold true for the Xtracycle.

                  --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Garvey" <lazybee45@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > On 8/1/07, Nathan Klatt <n8klatt@...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > On 7/31/07, Mark Garvey <lazybee45@...> wrote:
                  > > > Unfortunately, that motor makes the bike MORE practical than
                  my car!
                  > >
                  > > Arguments of purity aside, this put a huge smile on my face!
                  > >
                  > > Arguments of purity NOT aside, what if the electric assist would
                  only
                  > > give out what was put into it by the rider directly?  I.e., if
                  you
                  > > never plug the battery in and, instead, it charges using
                  regenerative
                  > > braking?  Like you could add some small amount of drag when
                  you're on
                  > > the flats and going downhill to charge it then get it back when
                  going
                  > > up?  How would that affect the purity of bicycling?
                  > >
                  > > Well, Personally i don't give a hang about the "purity" of
                  cycling.
                  > Anyone who worries about "purity" except in a sense of water or
                  foodstuffs
                  > is not living in the real world!  It is kind of like a recital my
                  sister
                  > gave once.  It was all German Lieder, which may well be the most
                  awful and
                  > boring music ever to be considered as part of a classical music
                  program!
                  > Imagine if you will, a song with lines like "You WILL love me, you
                  are mine
                  > because I desire you!  You have the beauty of a finely machined
                  engine
                  > part!" sung in German, to a group of stern faced judges who are
                  picking on
                  > inflection, meter, tonal quality and all that sort of thing.
                  >
                  > The real world happens OUTSIDE the college where kids play
                  improvised
                  > instruments and do wop for tips!  Try huckstering Lieter THERE!
                  >
                  > But I digress!  I like what WORKS.  My only beef with e assist is
                  the
                  > weight.  My lovely light bike has become heavy!  It bothers me,
                  but it
                  > WORKS!
                  >
                  > mark
                  > --
                  > Putting the fun in dysfunctional for over 50 years!
                  >
                  >
                  > Mark  Garvey
                  > Cedar Rapids, Iowa free state!
                  >
                  > Check out the web site at:
                  > http://www.vine-ave.com
                  >
                  > contact us to have INVISIBLE INC! appear at your next program!
                  Details at
                  > www.vine-ave.com
                  >
                  > I am a bicycling lifestylist!
                  >





                  You're getting this message because you signed up to be an Xtracycle roots radical.

                  To Post a message, send it to:          rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com


                  ride to believe.
                  Yahoo! Groups Links





                  --
                  Putting the fun in dysfunctional for over 50 years!


                  Mark  Garvey
                  Cedar Rapids, Iowa free state!

                  Check out the web site at:
                  http://www.vine-ave.com  

                  contact us to have INVISIBLE INC! appear at your next program!  Details at www.vine-ave.com

                  I am a bicycling lifestylist!
                • velodog@talkamerica.net
                  That would invite complications that would include jack-knifing if power were to be applied while in the midst of a turn. Greg Kreski
                  Message 8 of 12 , Aug 2, 2007
                  • 0 Attachment
                    That would invite complications that would include "jack-knifing" if power were
                    to be applied while in the midst of a turn.

                    Greg Kreski <velodog@...>

                    Quoting Mighk Wilson <mwilson@...>:

                    > Perhaps someone could design a motorized single-wheel trailer that pushes the
                    > bike? That way you could attach the trailer only when you needed a boost.
                    > No drivetrain complications either, just a controller line from the
                    > handlebars to the back of the bike to connect.
                    >
                    > There's also some outfit developing a hydraulic transmission system that's
                    > evidently scaleable (not the NuVinci hub; this is for the propulsion part of
                    > the drivetrain, not for shifting). It would use hydraulics to store energy
                    > for regenerative braking. UPS is very interested in it with all their stop &
                    > go driving. The article I read on it said the inventors were also talking to
                    > a major bicycle manufacturer.
                    >
                    > Mighk
                    >
                    > ________________________________________
                    > From: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com [mailto:rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com] On
                    > Behalf Of Ryano
                    > Sent: Thursday, August 02, 2007 8:32 AM
                    > To: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: Re: [rootsradicals] Re: power assist!
                    >
                    > Sanyo already makes an electric bicycle with regenerative braking.  My
                    > mother-in-law bought one this Spring and absolutely loves it.  She lives in a
                    > hilly area, where the regenerative system is particularly useful.  It is
                    > called the "Enacle" http://www.e-life-sanyo.com/bicycle/
                    >
                    > Really pretty cool.  I haven't tried, but would not be surprised if you could
                    > actually fit an Xtracycle onto one of these, because the motor runs from
                    > around the bottom bracket, not the hub, just like the Giant Lite someone
                    > mentioned - which incidentally is basically a National Panasonic e-bike
                    > adapted to American tastes.  My wife also uses a Panasonic e-bike and it
                    > really is pretty sweet if you are hauling things (and kids).  I certainly can
                    > manage without and prefer something light and simple, but millions of
                    > Japanese housewives rely on e-bikes and if that keeps them from buying cars,
                    > who are we to scoff at them.  And because of all those millions of sales, the
                    > Japanese e-bike makers really do have it down pat.  I'm really surprised they
                    > don't already have factories in Kansas making them for Americans also.
                    >
                    > On 02/08/07, Mark Garvey <lazybee45@...> wrote:
                    > Well, on my Trike I was averaging about 9 mph generally, with power assist It
                    > was about 10-12 mph.  On my Mountain bike with road tires (Primo Comets) I
                    > can average about 11-12 mph but with the PA running I can blow through 13-14
                    > mph.  I did 28 miles today in 2 hours and a few seconds, missing 14 mph
                    > average for 2 hours by only a few hundred yards!  Note that I am 54 years
                    > old,  and weigh 240 more or less.   I rode 20 miles over lunch time  (I got a
                    > 2 hour lunch today!) and totalled 36 miles today with my X.  I am digging it
                    > more and more!  I did a modest grocery run this afternoon and only picked up
                    > 6 bags of groceries, I had room for more!  and NO TRAILER!   I plan to add a
                    > hitch for my Kiddie trailer and my little utility trailer so that I do have
                    > that option if I need it!  But overall the X is delightful!
                    >
                    > By the way, the BionX has a regen system, but I have a feeling that while it
                    > is a working system and does have an effect, it may be more flash than
                    > utility!  My Currie USPD system is very simple and works really well!  The
                    > Stokemonkey and Cyclone systems run through the gears to improve efficiency. 
                    > My Currie starts to groan a bit when it gets down to 8 or 9 mph!
                    >
                    > mark
                    > On 8/1/07, tyler_rudkin < tyler_rudkin@...> wrote:
                    > Check out the Bion-X system for egenerative charging on
                    > downhills/flats.
                    >
                    > My Xtracycle is going on a Giant Lite (electric bike).  I commute on
                    > a road bike because I can go much faster than my eBike ever could,
                    > and like the exercise.  However, after that commute, the eBike is a
                    > deciding factor in pulling my kids to the ice cream shop after work
                    > or running an errand by bike vs. car.
                    >
                    > The same should hold true for the Xtracycle.
                    >
                    > --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Garvey" <lazybee45@...>
                    > wrote:
                    > >
                    > > On 8/1/07, Nathan Klatt <n8klatt@...> wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > On 7/31/07, Mark Garvey <lazybee45@...> wrote:
                    > > > > Unfortunately, that motor makes the bike MORE practical than
                    > my car!
                    > > >
                    > > > Arguments of purity aside, this put a huge smile on my face!
                    > > >
                    > > > Arguments of purity NOT aside, what if the electric assist would
                    > only
                    > > > give out what was put into it by the rider directly?  I.e., if
                    > you
                    > > > never plug the battery in and, instead, it charges using
                    > regenerative
                    > > > braking?  Like you could add some small amount of drag when
                    > you're on
                    > > > the flats and going downhill to charge it then get it back when
                    > going
                    > > > up?  How would that affect the purity of bicycling?
                    > > >
                    > > > Well, Personally i don't give a hang about the "purity" of
                    > cycling.
                    > > Anyone who worries about "purity" except in a sense of water or
                    > foodstuffs
                    > > is not living in the real world!  It is kind of like a recital my
                    > sister
                    > > gave once.  It was all German Lieder, which may well be the most
                    > awful and
                    > > boring music ever to be considered as part of a classical music
                    > program!
                    > > Imagine if you will, a song with lines like "You WILL love me, you
                    > are mine
                    > > because I desire you!  You have the beauty of a finely machined
                    > engine
                    > > part!" sung in German, to a group of stern faced judges who are
                    > picking on
                    > > inflection, meter, tonal quality and all that sort of thing.
                    > >
                    > > The real world happens OUTSIDE the college where kids play
                    > improvised
                    > > instruments and do wop for tips!  Try huckstering Lieter THERE!
                    > >
                    > > But I digress!  I like what WORKS.  My only beef with e assist is
                    > the
                    > > weight.  My lovely light bike has become heavy!  It bothers me,
                    > but it
                    > > WORKS!
                    > >
                    > > mark
                    > > --
                    > > Putting the fun in dysfunctional for over 50 years!
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Mark  Garvey
                    > > Cedar Rapids, Iowa free state!
                    > >
                    > > Check out the web site at:
                    > > http://www.vine-ave.com
                    > >
                    > > contact us to have INVISIBLE INC! appear at your next program!
                    > Details at
                    > > www.vine-ave.com
                    > >
                    > > I am a bicycling lifestylist!
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > You're getting this message because you signed up to be an Xtracycle roots
                    > radical.
                    >
                    > To Post a message, send it to:          rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
                    >
                    >
                    > ride to believe.
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --
                    > Putting the fun in dysfunctional for over 50 years!
                    >
                    >
                    > Mark  Garvey
                    > Cedar Rapids, Iowa free state!
                    >
                    > Check out the web site at:
                    > http://www.vine-ave.com  
                    >
                    > contact us to have INVISIBLE INC! appear at your next program!  Details at
                    > www.vine-ave.com
                    >
                    > I am a bicycling lifestylist!
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Mighk Wilson
                    I wrote: Perhaps someone could design a motorized single-wheel trailer that pushes the bike? That would invite complications that would
                    Message 9 of 12 , Aug 2, 2007
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                      I wrote: >> Perhaps someone could design a motorized single-wheel
                      trailer that pushes the bike?<<

                      And Greg wrote: >>That would invite complications that would include
                      "jack-knifing" if power were to be applied while in the midst of a
                      turn.<<

                      That's why I'm not an engineer! Thanks.

                      Mighk
                    • Cathode Ray
                      ... Staton Inc makes a motor kit called the pusher, see http://staton-inc.com/Details.asp?ProductID=2729
                      Message 10 of 12 , Aug 2, 2007
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                        At 9:58 AM -0400 2/8/07, Mighk Wilson wrote:
                        >Perhaps someone could design a motorized single-wheel trailer that
                        >pushes the bike?

                        Staton Inc makes a motor kit called the pusher, see

                        http://staton-inc.com/Details.asp?ProductID=2729
                      • velodog@talkamerica.net
                        Yes, slightly better because the pivoting point is ahead of the rear wheel for the most part. That would greatly reduce the tendency to jack knife. However,
                        Message 11 of 12 , Aug 3, 2007
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                          Yes, slightly better because the pivoting point is ahead of the rear wheel for
                          the most part. That would greatly reduce the tendency to jack knife. However,
                          there would still be a thrusting action above the center of gravity that would
                          work against your attempts to turn the bike, tending to make it "high side".
                          I know this for a fact as I have a trailer called the Alley Cat that is
                          essentially like this, but does not have a provision for a child rider. Rather,
                          it has a rack that runs the length of the main tube. I tried it on a tour and
                          found it to be unwieldly because of the the previously stated problem when
                          turning while slowing down, the inertia would push me towards the outside of
                          the turn.
                          Another troublem is that it had a high moment of inertia above the axle line of
                          the bike, causing a lateral instability that was quite annoying when
                          accelerating or climbing and unnerving when going downhill. That is why I use
                          my B.o.B. trailer so much, and looking forward to putting my X together soon!!
                          I just have to complete the drivetrain. I know the rider type of trailers are
                          very popular, but I've only seen parents riding slowly in the neighborhoods so
                          maybe that's the appropriate application for these.
                          First time doing the blog thing, what a great resource!! Thanks, Greg


                          Quoting Cathode Ray <ray@...>:

                          > At 9:58 AM -0400 2/8/07, Mighk Wilson wrote:
                          > >Perhaps someone could design a motorized single-wheel trailer that
                          > >pushes the bike?
                          >
                          > Staton Inc makes a motor kit called the pusher, see
                          >
                          > http://staton-inc.com/Details.asp?ProductID=2729
                          >
                        • Mighk Wilson
                          ... Yes, it seems quite a few folks have already been busy with the idea. See: http://www.tkotrailers.com/bike-trailer/
                          Message 12 of 12 , Aug 3, 2007
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                            Greg wrote:
                            >> Staton Inc makes a motor kit called the pusher, see
                            > http://staton-inc.com/Details.asp?ProductID=2729

                            Yes, it seems quite a few folks have already been busy with the idea.
                            See:
                            http://www.tkotrailers.com/bike-trailer/
                            http://www.lightfootcycles.com/trailers.htm
                            http://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/motobob.htm
                            http://www.geocities.com/vancyclist/PT50.html

                            Mighk
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