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Re: [rootsradicals] bicycle camping

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  • Anne Littlebird
    I completely agree Devian. The only thing that I have found is necessary is my water filter and a flint and steel. The point of camping for me is to sleep
    Message 1 of 29 , Jul 17, 2007
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      I completely agree Devian. The only thing that I have found is necessary
      is my water filter and a flint and steel. The point of camping for me is
      to sleep under the stars.

      Anne

      Devian Gilbert wrote:
      >
      > uhhh...
      >
      > well...I happen to have lived without residence on my bike w/BOB
      > trailer for 1.5yrs.
      > its easy
      > any tent will do
      > in fact...actually...a tarp is pretty much enough
      > and a water filter
      >
      > peace...d
      >
      > "Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the
      > human race." H.G. Wells
      > http://www.AsanaCycles.com <http://www.AsanaCycles.com>
      >
      >
      > On Jul 16, 2007, at 11:57 PM, Tone wrote:
      >
      >>
      >> Ben,
      >>
      >> Not to down you specifically for your mention of the
      >> Topeak Bikamper, but I really think their idea sucks. My reasoning
      >> involves the user being forced to completely take down his or her
      >> tent when the need or desire to cycle arises. If one decided to stay
      >> at a site an extra night, then the tent has to be broken down if the
      >> user wants to go for a ride in between nights. Also, what if some
      >> sort of emergency happens in the middle of the night and you need to
      >> go riding immediately… like a bear attack or someone getting bit by a
      >> poisonous snake where every second helps when trying to get proper
      >> medical aid, etc?
      >>
      >> Personally I just think their idea was not thought out
      >> all that well. I think they would have spent their time better in
      >> developing a light-weight tent system (with collapsible poles!) along
      >> with its own integrated bike-frame compatible baggage system.
      >> Normally I like Topeak accessories, but I have to admit this idea of
      >> theirs disappoints me.
      >>
      >> _/TONE/_
      >>
      >>
      >
      >
    • Tone
      Devian & Anne, I really hope you did not take offense at my comments to Ben. I sincerely did not mean to criticize any person on the list with my comments. I
      Message 2 of 29 , Jul 17, 2007
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        Devian & Anne,

                    I really hope you did not take offense at my comments to Ben. I sincerely did not mean to criticize any person on the list with my comments. I work as a graphics designer along with my past as a bike messenger, so at times I know I can be critical, but I WAS definitely directing my comments toward Topeak. When I checked out that link I did not take a look at the differences Topeak made in their newer model. I think it IS cool they changed their design completely, but still took the extra effort to continue to not use heavier poles in their design. I admittedly would never have thought to use inflatable inner tubes as structural elements, so I applaud their innovation. That IS a good idea. J My primary gripe was a user could not hop on their bike when their tent was assembled, and clearly they fixed that issue.

                    It is strange I did not think of inner tubes, because I bought a case of inner tubes in bulk to have extras for my own use, sell cheap to messenger friends, and experiment with for fun artsy projects. I my old bedroom, which was more like a work studio because I built in a fold up Murphy bed, I had also set up a wooden framework across the ceiling, which had a dozen movable suspension points. I had four wooden bench swings I could put up, pull-up bars I could exercise on, a punching bag to practice martial arts on, or I could even just hang-dry clothing when the dryer did not finish the job completely. When I was a kid I always wanted a bedroom with swings and stuff in it, so obviously the idea was to have fun, which is where the bike tubes came into play. I figured out 1.75” wide 26” bicycle tubes will stretch out to at least 8’. Also inserting both a persons own feet into a pair of bicycle tubes will allow that individual to bungee-bounce around if they weigh around 150 lbs. Imagine having twelve tubes, which you can step into and bungee-walk around a room on. J It takes practice though, and if full suspension is desired, four tubes will do the trick. J

         

                    Anyway, I certainly was not intending to down the idea of camping/living by bike alone. There was a messenger I remember back in New York City for a few months, who had biked from San Francisco on his Xtracycle all the way to NYC and worked as a messenger on his Xtracycle while not having any permanent residence the entire time. Since I was the only messenger at the time riding an Xtracycle in NYC we spoke a bit when we saw each other on the road. I remember him telling me how he just carried a tarp rolled up around a few sticks and I think a rolled up sheet of cardboard from a bike box. When he wanted to camp he would simply set his Xtracycle on its side in such a way so his pedals would not stick out either side (I forget if he had folding pedals or if he just took them off every night), then lay the cardboard over his bike with the sticks stuck in the ground around the bike. He would then pull the tarp over him and the entire bike and sleep over the lying bike frame itself on the cardboard with a sleeping bag. The sticks standing in the ground would keep the tarp up a little so it would not rest on him completely. I remember him saying it was not as comfortable as a bed of course, but it kept him from lying on the potentially cold, rocky, and/or wet ground. People encountering him “camping” would just see a tarp over some pile of debris or whatever. As he worked in NYC I think he was able to find some discarded corrugated-plastic, which replaced the bike-box cardboard and gave him a more comfortable sleeping surface. Also, since he was now working in one city rather than on the road he saved up some money and bought a pair of H-racks for the Xtracycle, which he was also able to adapt to keep the tarp up and replace the sticks, which he carried around. Unfortunately for him many times the cops or a park ranger would come along and figure out what the deal was and force him to move on. Sadly I lost track of him because he had not completely realized how cold the NYC winters can get nor prepared enough for that sort of weather. I do not believe San Francisco gets as cold as NYC. Do not worry though. I know he did not freeze or anything! I just think he rode on out of NYC.

         

                    From my personal experience I would much rather travel by bike alone. I use to organize a couple of Memorial weekend messenger camping trips from NYC to Harriman State Park, which involved a 4-6 hour ride before we could set up camp. I biked down to Philly and back twice as well, and cycled from Zurich, Switzerland to Freiburg, Germany and back too. I was also part of a multi-day camping ride along the Danube with about 50-60 messengers from all over the world as we toured from Vienna, Austria to Budapest, Hungary for an annual CMWC competition. What I am saying is I am no stranger to camping by bike. J It is great, so I would never put down that idea! Even though I moved from NY to PA, I still do not have a driver’s license and I ideally intend to buy the Surly Big Dummy so my wife and I both have cargo bikes. There are actually a few state parks within 50-100 miles, and there is Dutch Amish country I would really like to tour. Later down the road if/when I have the funds, I would also really like to buy two 20” wheeled folding bikes and set them up the way I want them. That way my wife and I can more conveniently travel somewhere distant (like Portugal where my parents are from as an example) and use only our bikes to get around. Using the Xtracycle-equipped bike for that sort of thing is just not as practical, unless I was to cycle around the entire world, but reality demands I keep a stable job rather than engage in long-term touring. <sigh>

         

                    Ride safe,

        _TONE_

      • Devian Gilbert
        dude: no problem. camping is as varied as anything out there. heck check out the $500k coaches that convoy from KOA to KOA, Good Sam club, etc. America goes
        Message 3 of 29 , Jul 17, 2007
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          dude:

          no problem.  camping is as varied as anything out there.  heck check out the $500k coaches that convoy from KOA to KOA, Good Sam club, etc.  America goes RVing.  Even backpacking i've gone from a tarp and the bare essentials, to my condo-esq 8man tipi.  my fav is my 4man.  both complete with wood burning stoves.  
          bikes...well...the Cdale with Bob was pretty cool.  at the time, my fav, and yet to prove to be the most versatile, simply cuz the BOB can detach, and allow you to cover some narrow ground, not to mention how crazy awesome it is as a wheelbarrel.   the dry sack is great for gathering wood, collecting water, and hoisting up a tree limb (a bear bag of sorts).  flip the BOB over and now there is a level surface, after you prop it up.
          The Topeak gig, i had just lafffed when i had 1st seen it.  but what ever.
          i still laff with my Xtracycle with the wideloaders, and groceries, cuz it dont go thru my yard gate.  but the Pug with panniers does wheelies, fits in all sort of places, etc.
          the Xtra i've had girls on the back
          pug...not
          bob...not

          its all subjective

          peace...d

          sometimes i take my Sonicare
          :-)

          "Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the human race." H.G. Wells


          On Jul 17, 2007, at 10:23 AM, Tone wrote:


          Devian & Anne,

                      I really hope you did not take offense at my comments to Ben. I sincerely did not mean to criticize any person on the list with my comments. I work as a graphics designer along with my past as a bike messenger, so at times I know I can be critical, but I WAS definitely directing my comments toward Topeak. When I checked out that link I did not take a look at the differences Topeak made in their newer model. I think it IS cool they changed their design completely, but still took the extra effort to continue to not use heavier poles in their design. I admittedly would never have thought to use inflatable inner tubes as structural elements, so I applaud their innovation. That IS a good idea. J My primary gripe was a user could not hop on their bike when their tent was assembled, and clearly they fixed that issue.

                      It is strange I did not think of inner tubes, because I bought a case of inner tubes in bulk to have extras for my own use, sell cheap to messenger friends, and experiment with for fun artsy projects. I my old bedroom, which was more like a work studio because I built in a fold up Murphy bed, I had also set up a wooden framework across the ceiling, which had a dozen movable suspension points. I had four wooden bench swings I could put up, pull-up bars I could exercise on, a punching bag to practice martial arts on, or I could even just hang-dry clothing when the dryer did not finish the job completely. When I was a kid I always wanted a bedroom with swings and stuff in it, so obviously the idea was to have fun, which is where the bike tubes came into play. I figured out 1.75” wide 26” bicycle tubes will stretch out to at least 8’. Also inserting both a persons own feet into a pair of bicycle tubes will allow that individual to bungee-bounce around if they weigh around 150 lbs. Imagine having twelve tubes, which you can step into and bungee-walk around a room on. J It takes practice though, and if full suspension is desired, four tubes will do the trick. J

           

                      Anyway, I certainly was not intending to down the idea of camping/living by bike alone. There was a messenger I remember back in New York City for a few months, who had biked from San Francisco on his Xtracycle all the way to NYC and worked as a messenger on his Xtracycle while not having any permanent residence the entire time. Since I was the only messenger at the time riding an Xtracycle in NYC we spoke a bit when we saw each other on the road. I remember him telling me how he just carried a tarp rolled up around a few sticks and I think a rolled up sheet of cardboard from a bike box. When he wanted to camp he would simply set his Xtracycle on its side in such a way so his pedals would not stick out either side (I forget if he had folding pedals or if he just took them off every night), then lay the cardboard over his bike with the sticks stuck in the ground around the bike. He would then pull the tarp over him and the entire bike and sleep over the lying bike frame itself on the cardboard with a sleeping bag. The sticks standing in the ground would keep the tarp up a little so it would not rest on him completely. I remember him saying it was not as comfortable as a bed of course, but it kept him from lying on the potentially cold, rocky, and/or wet ground. People encountering him “camping” would just see a tarp over some pile of debris or whatever. As he worked in NYC I think he was able to find some discarded corrugated-plastic, which replaced the bike-box cardboard and gave him a more comfortable sleeping surface. Also, since he was now working in one city rather than on the road he saved up some money and bought a pair of H-racks for the Xtracycle, which he was also able to adapt to keep the tarp up and replace the sticks, which he carried around. Unfortunately for him many times the cops or a park ranger would come along and figure out what the deal was and force him to move on. Sadly I lost track of him because he had not completely realized how cold the NYC winters can get nor prepared enough for that sort of weather. I do not believe San Francisco gets as cold as NYC. Do not worry though. I know he did not freeze or anything! I just think he rode on out of NYC.

           

                      From my personal experience I would much rather travel by bike alone. I use to organize a couple of Memorial weekend messenger camping trips from NYC to Harriman State Park, which involved a 4-6 hour ride before we could set up camp. I biked down to Philly and back twice as well, and cycled from Zurich, Switzerland toFreiburg, Germany and back too. I was also part of a multi-day camping ride along the Danube with about 50-60 messengers from all over the world as we toured from Vienna, Austria to Budapest, Hungary for an annual CMWC competition. What I am saying is I am no stranger to camping by bike. J It is great, so I would never put down that idea! Even though I moved from NY to PA, I still do not have a driver’s license and I ideally intend to buy the Surly Big Dummy so my wife and I both have cargo bikes. There are actually a few state parks within 50-100 miles, and there is Dutch Amish country I would really like to tour. Later down the road if/when I have the funds, I would also really like to buy two 20” wheeled folding bikes and set them up the way I want them. That way my wife and I can more conveniently travel somewhere distant (like Portugal where my parents are from as an example) and use only our bikes to get around. Using the Xtracycle-equipped bike for that sort of thing is just not as practical, unless I was to cycle around the entire world, but reality demands I keep a stable job rather than engage in long-term touring. <sigh>

           

                      Ride safe,

          _TONE_



        • Anne Littlebird
          Tone, I saw no offense at all. I just realized you hadn t seen the new tent from Topeak. The first one was pretty useless from a set up and take off on the
          Message 4 of 29 , Jul 17, 2007
          • 0 Attachment
            Tone,

            I saw no offense at all. I just realized you hadn't seen the new tent
            from Topeak. The first one was pretty useless from a set up and take off
            on the bike later idea. I like the inner tube frame!

            Personally for an overnight I'd be a little more austere in my camping
            needs. I can sleep in the woods without a tent. And in most cases prefer
            it. But for most people I think the little Topeak might work. The price
            is pretty good and it's certainly small.

            Can I come to your house and play? Sounds awesome!

            Anne

            Tone wrote:
            >
            > Devian & Anne,
            >
            > I really hope you did not take offense at my comments to Ben. I
            > sincerely did not mean to criticize any person on the list with my
            > comments. I work as a graphics designer along with my past as a bike
            > messenger, so at times I know I can be critical, but I WAS definitely
            > directing my comments toward Topeak. When I checked out that link I
            > did not take a look at the differences Topeak made in their newer
            > model. I think it IS cool they changed their design completely, but
            > still took the extra effort to continue to not use heavier poles in
            > their design. I admittedly would never have thought to use inflatable
            > inner tubes as structural elements, so I applaud their innovation.
            > That IS a good idea. J My primary gripe was a user could not hop on
            > their bike when their tent was assembled, and clearly they fixed that
            > issue.
            >
            > It is strange I did not think of inner tubes, because I bought a case
            > of inner tubes in bulk to have extras for my own use, sell cheap to
            > messenger friends, and experiment with for fun artsy projects. I my
            > old bedroom, which was more like a work studio because I built in a
            > fold up Murphy bed, I had also set up a wooden framework across the
            > ceiling, which had a dozen movable suspension points. I had four
            > wooden bench swings I could put up, pull-up bars I could exercise on,
            > a punching bag to practice martial arts on, or I could even just
            > hang-dry clothing when the dryer did not finish the job completely.
            > When I was a kid I always wanted a bedroom with swings and stuff in
            > it, so obviously the idea was to have fun, which is where the bike
            > tubes came into play. I figured out 1.75” wide 26” bicycle tubes will
            > stretch out to at least 8’. Also inserting both a persons own feet
            > into a pair of bicycle tubes will allow that individual to
            > bungee-bounce around if they weigh around 150 lbs. Imagine having
            > twelve tubes, which you can step into and bungee-walk around a room
            > on. J It takes practice though, and if full suspension is desired,
            > four tubes will do the trick. J
            >
            > Anyway, I certainly was not intending to down the idea of
            > camping/living by bike alone. There was a messenger I remember back in
            > New York City for a few months, who had biked from San Francisco on
            > his Xtracycle all the way to NYC and worked as a messenger on his
            > Xtracycle while not having any permanent residence the entire time.
            > Since I was the only messenger at the time riding an Xtracycle in NYC
            > we spoke a bit when we saw each other on the road. I remember him
            > telling me how he just carried a tarp rolled up around a few sticks
            > and I think a rolled up sheet of cardboard from a bike box. When he
            > wanted to camp he would simply set his Xtracycle on its side in such a
            > way so his pedals would not stick out either side (I forget if he had
            > folding pedals or if he just took them off every night), then lay the
            > cardboard over his bike with the sticks stuck in the ground around the
            > bike. He would then pull the tarp over him and the entire bike and
            > sleep over the lying bike frame itself on the cardboard with a
            > sleeping bag. The sticks standing in the ground would keep the tarp up
            > a little so it would not rest on him completely. I remember him saying
            > it was not as comfortable as a bed of course, but it kept him from
            > lying on the potentially cold, rocky, and/or wet ground. People
            > encountering him “camping” would just see a tarp over some pile of
            > debris or whatever. As he worked in NYC I think he was able to find
            > some discarded corrugated-plastic, which replaced the bike-box
            > cardboard and gave him a more comfortable sleeping surface. Also,
            > since he was now working in one city rather than on the road he saved
            > up some money and bought a pair of H-racks for the Xtracycle, which he
            > was also able to adapt to keep the tarp up and replace the sticks,
            > which he carried around. Unfortunately for him many times the cops or
            > a park ranger would come along and figure out what the deal was and
            > force him to move on. Sadly I lost track of him because he had not
            > completely realized how cold the NYC winters can get nor prepared
            > enough for that sort of weather. I do not believe San Francisco gets
            > as cold as NYC. Do not worry though. I know he did not freeze or
            > anything! I just think he rode on out of NYC.
            >
            > From my personal experience I would much rather travel by bike alone.
            > I use to organize a couple of Memorial weekend messenger camping trips
            > from NYC to Harriman State Park, which involved a 4-6 hour ride before
            > we could set up camp. I biked down to Philly and back twice as well,
            > and cycled from Zurich, Switzerland to Freiburg, Germany and back too.
            > I was also part of a multi-day camping ride along the Danube with
            > about 50-60 messengers from all over the world as we toured from
            > Vienna, Austria to Budapest, Hungary for an annual CMWC competition.
            > What I am saying is I am no stranger to camping by bike. J It is
            > great, so I would never put down that idea! Even though I moved from
            > NY to PA, I still do not have a driver’s license and I ideally intend
            > to buy the Surly Big Dummy so my wife and I both have cargo bikes.
            > There are actually a few state parks within 50-100 miles, and there is
            > Dutch Amish country I would really like to tour. Later down the road
            > if/when I have the funds, I would also really like to buy two 20”
            > wheeled folding bikes and set them up the way I want them. That way my
            > wife and I can more conveniently travel somewhere distant (like
            > Portugal where my parents are from as an example) and use only our
            > bikes to get around. Using the Xtracycle-equipped bike for that sort
            > of thing is just not as practical, unless I was to cycle around the
            > entire world, but reality demands I keep a stable job rather than
            > engage in long-term touring. <sigh>
            >
            > Ride safe,
            >
            > _/TONE/_
            >
            >
          • Mark Garvey
            Good Lord! Let s not be weight weenies here! I got a great Tent (I like it anyway!) for $35 from a big box hardware store that came with twosleeping bags.
            Message 5 of 29 , Jul 17, 2007
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              Good Lord!  Let's not be weight weenies here!   I got a great Tent (I like it anyway!) for $35 from a big box hardware store that came with twosleeping bags.   the beast fits at least 3 people with ELBOW room!  One in luxury and two very comfortably, Yeah, it is sort of heavy!  maybe 5-6 lbs or so, maybe more!  who cares!  that is the POINt behind an X after all, carrying your STUFF!  As soon as mine comes, I plan an overnight shakedown on the CVNT from Cedar Rapids to wherever I can end up.   hauling my old blue nylon tent or maybe the K-Mart one that my buddy Kenny got for $20 when the tree fell on his nice one on RAGBRAI 2 years ago!  I guess I am a slacker or something, but paying $500 or so for a single man tent is not my idea of practical.  Even $100 comes sort of hard to us!  Buying the X is a sacrifice!  I am paying more for that alone than I have for nearly any bicycle I have ever owned! 

              In any case those Topeak tents look sort of cool!  But using your bike and front wheel as the tent poles is a bit lame I think!

              mark

              On 7/17/07, Anne Littlebird <issumatuq@...> wrote:
              Tone,

              I saw no offense at all. I just realized you hadn't seen the new tent
              from Topeak. The first one was pretty useless from a set up and take off
              on the bike later idea. I like the inner tube frame!

              Personally for an overnight I'd be a little more austere in my camping
              needs. I can sleep in the woods without a tent. And in most cases prefer
              it. But for most people I think the little Topeak might work. The price
              is pretty good and it's certainly small.

              Can I come to your house and play? Sounds awesome!

              Anne

              Tone wrote:
              >
              > Devian & Anne,
              >
              > I really hope you did not take offense at my comments to Ben. I
              > sincerely did not mean to criticize any person on the list with my
              > comments. I work as a graphics designer along with my past as a bike
              > messenger, so at times I know I can be critical, but I WAS definitely
              > directing my comments toward Topeak. When I checked out that link I
              > did not take a look at the differences Topeak made in their newer
              > model. I think it IS cool they changed their design completely, but
              > still took the extra effort to continue to not use heavier poles in
              > their design. I admittedly would never have thought to use inflatable
              > inner tubes as structural elements, so I applaud their innovation.
              > That IS a good idea. J My primary gripe was a user could not hop on
              > their bike when their tent was assembled, and clearly they fixed that
              > issue.
              >
              > It is strange I did not think of inner tubes, because I bought a case
              > of inner tubes in bulk to have extras for my own use, sell cheap to
              > messenger friends, and experiment with for fun artsy projects. I my
              > old bedroom, which was more like a work studio because I built in a
              > fold up Murphy bed, I had also set up a wooden framework across the
              > ceiling, which had a dozen movable suspension points. I had four
              > wooden bench swings I could put up, pull-up bars I could exercise on,
              > a punching bag to practice martial arts on, or I could even just
              > hang-dry clothing when the dryer did not finish the job completely.
              > When I was a kid I always wanted a bedroom with swings and stuff in
              > it, so obviously the idea was to have fun, which is where the bike
              > tubes came into play. I figured out 1.75" wide 26" bicycle tubes will
              > stretch out to at least 8'. Also inserting both a persons own feet
              > into a pair of bicycle tubes will allow that individual to
              > bungee-bounce around if they weigh around 150 lbs. Imagine having
              > twelve tubes, which you can step into and bungee-walk around a room
              > on. J It takes practice though, and if full suspension is desired,
              > four tubes will do the trick. J
              >
              > Anyway, I certainly was not intending to down the idea of
              > camping/living by bike alone. There was a messenger I remember back in
              > New York City for a few months, who had biked from San Francisco on
              > his Xtracycle all the way to NYC and worked as a messenger on his
              > Xtracycle while not having any permanent residence the entire time.
              > Since I was the only messenger at the time riding an Xtracycle in NYC
              > we spoke a bit when we saw each other on the road. I remember him
              > telling me how he just carried a tarp rolled up around a few sticks
              > and I think a rolled up sheet of cardboard from a bike box. When he
              > wanted to camp he would simply set his Xtracycle on its side in such a
              > way so his pedals would not stick out either side (I forget if he had
              > folding pedals or if he just took them off every night), then lay the
              > cardboard over his bike with the sticks stuck in the ground around the
              > bike. He would then pull the tarp over him and the entire bike and
              > sleep over the lying bike frame itself on the cardboard with a
              > sleeping bag. The sticks standing in the ground would keep the tarp up
              > a little so it would not rest on him completely. I remember him saying
              > it was not as comfortable as a bed of course, but it kept him from
              > lying on the potentially cold, rocky, and/or wet ground. People
              > encountering him "camping" would just see a tarp over some pile of
              > debris or whatever. As he worked in NYC I think he was able to find
              > some discarded corrugated-plastic, which replaced the bike-box
              > cardboard and gave him a more comfortable sleeping surface. Also,
              > since he was now working in one city rather than on the road he saved
              > up some money and bought a pair of H-racks for the Xtracycle, which he
              > was also able to adapt to keep the tarp up and replace the sticks,
              > which he carried around. Unfortunately for him many times the cops or
              > a park ranger would come along and figure out what the deal was and
              > force him to move on. Sadly I lost track of him because he had not
              > completely realized how cold the NYC winters can get nor prepared
              > enough for that sort of weather. I do not believe San Francisco gets
              > as cold as NYC. Do not worry though. I know he did not freeze or
              > anything! I just think he rode on out of NYC.
              >
              > From my personal experience I would much rather travel by bike alone.
              > I use to organize a couple of Memorial weekend messenger camping trips
              > from NYC to Harriman State Park, which involved a 4-6 hour ride before
              > we could set up camp. I biked down to Philly and back twice as well,
              > and cycled from Zurich, Switzerland to Freiburg, Germany and back too.
              > I was also part of a multi-day camping ride along the Danube with
              > about 50-60 messengers from all over the world as we toured from
              > Vienna, Austria to Budapest, Hungary for an annual CMWC competition.
              > What I am saying is I am no stranger to camping by bike. J It is
              > great, so I would never put down that idea! Even though I moved from
              > NY to PA, I still do not have a driver's license and I ideally intend
              > to buy the Surly Big Dummy so my wife and I both have cargo bikes.
              > There are actually a few state parks within 50-100 miles, and there is
              > Dutch Amish country I would really like to tour. Later down the road
              > if/when I have the funds, I would also really like to buy two 20"
              > wheeled folding bikes and set them up the way I want them. That way my
              > wife and I can more conveniently travel somewhere distant (like
              > Portugal where my parents are from as an example) and use only our
              > bikes to get around. Using the Xtracycle-equipped bike for that sort
              > of thing is just not as practical, unless I was to cycle around the
              > entire world, but reality demands I keep a stable job rather than
              > engage in long-term touring. <sigh>
              >
              > Ride safe,
              >
              > _/TONE/_
              >
              >


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              --
              Putting the fun in dysfunctional for over 50 years!


              Mark  Garvey
              Cedar Rapids, Iowa free state!

              Check out the web site at:
              http://www.vine-ave.com  

              contact us to have INVISIBLE INC! appear at your next program!  Details at www.vine-ave.com

              I am a bicycling lifestylist!
            • Anne Littlebird
              A weenie!! You called me a weight weenie? Will wonders never cease? I have never in my life been called a weenie - at least not by any one that knows me. OK,
              Message 6 of 29 , Jul 17, 2007
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                A weenie!! You called me a weight weenie? Will wonders never cease? I
                have never in my life been called a weenie - at least not by any one
                that knows me. OK, so appearances might be deceiving since I am rather
                petite but most of the 125 lbs is muscle. Having thrown my martial arts
                teacher a good 20 feet into a wall I am sure he will appreciate the new
                moniker. You have made my day!

                It's not about weight so much as how I like to spend my time in the
                woods. I like to be out in the open not sealed up in a dome of nylon.
                Just personal preference that's all. And my training. I reserve the
                comfort when I have to wear the slinky formal and heels and therefore
                will ride in a car to get to the next gig. Which unfortunately I have to
                do on Friday.

                And you are not a slacker at all. Just a very brave man.

                Anne ( a scary combination of Mohawk, Shawnee and Irish)

                Mark Garvey wrote:
                >
                > Good Lord! Let's not be weight weenies here! I got a great Tent (I
                > like it anyway!) for $35 from a big box hardware store that came with
                > twosleeping bags. the beast fits at least 3 people with ELBOW room!
                > One in luxury and two very comfortably, Yeah, it is sort of heavy!
                > maybe 5-6 lbs or so, maybe more! who cares! that is the POINt behind
                > an X after all, carrying your STUFF! As soon as mine comes, I plan an
                > overnight shakedown on the CVNT from Cedar Rapids to wherever I can
                > end up. hauling my old blue nylon tent or maybe the K-Mart one that
                > my buddy Kenny got for $20 when the tree fell on his nice one on
                > RAGBRAI 2 years ago! I guess I am a slacker or something, but paying
                > $500 or so for a single man tent is not my idea of practical. Even
                > $100 comes sort of hard to us! Buying the X is a sacrifice! I am
                > paying more for that alone than I have for nearly any bicycle I have
                > ever owned!
                >
                > In any case those Topeak tents look sort of cool! But using your bike
                > and front wheel as the tent poles is a bit lame I think!
                >
                > mark
                >
                > On 7/17/07, * Anne Littlebird* <issumatuq@...
                > <mailto:issumatuq@...>> wrote:
                >
                > Tone,
                >
                > I saw no offense at all. I just realized you hadn't seen the new tent
                > from Topeak. The first one was pretty useless from a set up and
                > take off
                > on the bike later idea. I like the inner tube frame!
                >
                > Personally for an overnight I'd be a little more austere in my camping
                > needs. I can sleep in the woods without a tent. And in most cases
                > prefer
                > it. But for most people I think the little Topeak might work. The
                > price
                > is pretty good and it's certainly small.
                >
                > Can I come to your house and play? Sounds awesome!
                >
                > Anne
                >
                > Tone wrote:
                > >
                > > Devian & Anne,
                > >
                > > I really hope you did not take offense at my comments to Ben. I
                > > sincerely did not mean to criticize any person on the list with my
                > > comments. I work as a graphics designer along with my past as a bike
                > > messenger, so at times I know I can be critical, but I WAS
                > definitely
                > > directing my comments toward Topeak. When I checked out that link I
                > > did not take a look at the differences Topeak made in their newer
                > > model. I think it IS cool they changed their design completely, but
                > > still took the extra effort to continue to not use heavier poles in
                > > their design. I admittedly would never have thought to use
                > inflatable
                > > inner tubes as structural elements, so I applaud their innovation.
                > > That IS a good idea. J My primary gripe was a user could not hop on
                > > their bike when their tent was assembled, and clearly they fixed
                > that
                > > issue.
                > >
                > > It is strange I did not think of inner tubes, because I bought a
                > case
                > > of inner tubes in bulk to have extras for my own use, sell cheap to
                > > messenger friends, and experiment with for fun artsy projects. I my
                > > old bedroom, which was more like a work studio because I built in a
                > > fold up Murphy bed, I had also set up a wooden framework across the
                > > ceiling, which had a dozen movable suspension points. I had four
                > > wooden bench swings I could put up, pull-up bars I could
                > exercise on,
                > > a punching bag to practice martial arts on, or I could even just
                > > hang-dry clothing when the dryer did not finish the job completely.
                > > When I was a kid I always wanted a bedroom with swings and stuff in
                > > it, so obviously the idea was to have fun, which is where the bike
                > > tubes came into play. I figured out 1.75" wide 26" bicycle tubes
                > will
                > > stretch out to at least 8'. Also inserting both a persons own feet
                > > into a pair of bicycle tubes will allow that individual to
                > > bungee-bounce around if they weigh around 150 lbs. Imagine having
                > > twelve tubes, which you can step into and bungee-walk around a room
                > > on. J It takes practice though, and if full suspension is desired,
                > > four tubes will do the trick. J
                > >
                > > Anyway, I certainly was not intending to down the idea of
                > > camping/living by bike alone. There was a messenger I remember
                > back in
                > > New York City for a few months, who had biked from San Francisco on
                > > his Xtracycle all the way to NYC and worked as a messenger on his
                > > Xtracycle while not having any permanent residence the entire time.
                > > Since I was the only messenger at the time riding an Xtracycle
                > in NYC
                > > we spoke a bit when we saw each other on the road. I remember him
                > > telling me how he just carried a tarp rolled up around a few sticks
                > > and I think a rolled up sheet of cardboard from a bike box. When he
                > > wanted to camp he would simply set his Xtracycle on its side in
                > such a
                > > way so his pedals would not stick out either side (I forget if
                > he had
                > > folding pedals or if he just took them off every night), then
                > lay the
                > > cardboard over his bike with the sticks stuck in the ground
                > around the
                > > bike. He would then pull the tarp over him and the entire bike and
                > > sleep over the lying bike frame itself on the cardboard with a
                > > sleeping bag. The sticks standing in the ground would keep the
                > tarp up
                > > a little so it would not rest on him completely. I remember him
                > saying
                > > it was not as comfortable as a bed of course, but it kept him from
                > > lying on the potentially cold, rocky, and/or wet ground. People
                > > encountering him "camping" would just see a tarp over some pile of
                > > debris or whatever. As he worked in NYC I think he was able to find
                > > some discarded corrugated-plastic, which replaced the bike-box
                > > cardboard and gave him a more comfortable sleeping surface. Also,
                > > since he was now working in one city rather than on the road he
                > saved
                > > up some money and bought a pair of H-racks for the Xtracycle,
                > which he
                > > was also able to adapt to keep the tarp up and replace the sticks,
                > > which he carried around. Unfortunately for him many times the
                > cops or
                > > a park ranger would come along and figure out what the deal was and
                > > force him to move on. Sadly I lost track of him because he had not
                > > completely realized how cold the NYC winters can get nor prepared
                > > enough for that sort of weather. I do not believe San Francisco gets
                > > as cold as NYC. Do not worry though. I know he did not freeze or
                > > anything! I just think he rode on out of NYC.
                > >
                > > From my personal experience I would much rather travel by bike
                > alone.
                > > I use to organize a couple of Memorial weekend messenger camping
                > trips
                > > from NYC to Harriman State Park, which involved a 4-6 hour ride
                > before
                > > we could set up camp. I biked down to Philly and back twice as well,
                > > and cycled from Zurich, Switzerland to Freiburg, Germany and
                > back too.
                > > I was also part of a multi-day camping ride along the Danube with
                > > about 50-60 messengers from all over the world as we toured from
                > > Vienna, Austria to Budapest, Hungary for an annual CMWC
                > competition.
                > > What I am saying is I am no stranger to camping by bike. J It is
                > > great, so I would never put down that idea! Even though I moved from
                > > NY to PA, I still do not have a driver's license and I ideally
                > intend
                > > to buy the Surly Big Dummy so my wife and I both have cargo bikes.
                > > There are actually a few state parks within 50-100 miles, and
                > there is
                > > Dutch Amish country I would really like to tour. Later down the
                > road
                > > if/when I have the funds, I would also really like to buy two 20"
                > > wheeled folding bikes and set them up the way I want them. That
                > way my
                > > wife and I can more conveniently travel somewhere distant (like
                > > Portugal where my parents are from as an example) and use only our
                > > bikes to get around. Using the Xtracycle-equipped bike for that sort
                > > of thing is just not as practical, unless I was to cycle around the
                > > entire world, but reality demands I keep a stable job rather than
                > > engage in long-term touring. <sigh>
                > >
                > > Ride safe,
                > >
                > > _/TONE/_
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                > You're getting this message because you signed up to be an
                > Xtracycle roots radical.
                >
                > To Post a message, send it
                > to: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
                > <mailto:rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com>
                >
                >
                > ride to believe.
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                > (Yahoo! ID required)
                >
                > mailto:rootsradicals-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                > <mailto:rootsradicals-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com>
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --
                > Putting the fun in dysfunctional for over 50 years!
                >
                >
                > Mark Garvey
                > Cedar Rapids, Iowa free state!
                >
                > Check out the web site at:
                > http://www.vine-ave.com <http://www.vine-ave.com>
                >
                > contact us to have INVISIBLE INC! appear at your next
                > program! Details at www.vine-ave.com <http://www.vine-ave.com>
                >
                > I am a bicycling lifestylist!
                >
              • Tone
                Anne, Unfortunately the room with the suspension points was back in my old apartment in Brooklyn. My wife and I recently moved to York, PA and are living in
                Message 7 of 29 , Jul 17, 2007
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                  Anne,
                  Unfortunately the room with the suspension points was back in my
                  old apartment in Brooklyn. My wife and I recently moved to York, PA and
                  are living in another rental apartment. The whole idea behind moving to
                  PA was to get out of the city to where a house and property is more
                  affordable, but once we get settled out here and get to know the area we
                  will try and finally buy something. When we have our own place I really
                  do want to build a new suspension framework in one of the rooms, but
                  this time bigger and better if possible since I know what I can improve
                  on now.
                  The framework I spoke of is still actually standing in the
                  apartment we moved out of, but now my old next door neighbor has taken
                  over the space with a friend, so he is able to set up suspension if he
                  wants. I took most of the hardware to eventually use in a new place
                  though, so he will have to invest a little to make suspension happen.

                  On top of the twelve overhead movable suspension points there
                  were also three fixed rings on the vertical posts in each of the four
                  corners. I used some of the lower and upper loops to hang photo back
                  drops once or twice, but most of the time I would use the middle ones to
                  suspend a two-person padded hammock diagonally across the room rather
                  than sleep on the Murphy bed. I bring this up because when I toured by
                  bike I brought a different hammock with me, one that was a combo
                  hammock-tent. Sleeping in that hammock kept me off the cold, hard,
                  bug-infested, and/or wet ground. I hear what you are saying about
                  sleeping under the stars and all, but I have to wonder what you would do
                  if it rained or the insects were out for blood over night.
                  _TONE_
                • Anne Littlebird
                  I hear you about looking fro something affordable. Unfortunately on my salary I m not sure how to do that. When I got my divorce I sold the house and now am in
                  Message 8 of 29 , Jul 18, 2007
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                    I hear you about looking fro something affordable. Unfortunately on my
                    salary I'm not sure how to do that. When I got my divorce I sold the
                    house and now am in a large apartment. Mind you my goal is to find a
                    small piece of property and set up a yurt. If I sell the car I can just
                    about do it but then there's a problem since i currently live in the
                    city 15 mins from work, grocery and post office which is perfect for
                    cycling. Still trying to find the balance. I want to get rid of the car!

                    I doubt my landlord would put up with a suspension system - but it
                    really does sound cool and would have been very helpful when I was still
                    heavily doing martial arts. I still have a small pulley system that fits
                    over a door that I can use to stretch legs fully to stay flexible but
                    that's about it.

                    It's not that I don't possess tents - I do. And if I'm going out for
                    several days to a week then I will take the tents. It depends if it's a
                    strictly backpacking adventure or a herb collection session as to which
                    one I take. But if it's a last minute, I'm getting out of the city
                    overnight then I won't take one. I don't go that far that the local
                    weather isn't accurate - or at least as accurate as they get - so I've
                    been lucky not to run into too much rain. And being an herbalist I can
                    deal with a potential bug problem quite easily. Well that and wilderness
                    training. The only time I had problems was actually several summers ago
                    when it was really wet - I managed to get several mosquito bites just in
                    the normal day to day living. Unfortunately one of those little suckers
                    landed me with West Nile so I didn't get out much into the woods that
                    summer. Just didn't feel well enough to do it. Most bugs I can deal with
                    but I positively detest ticks and they seem to get inside a tent too...

                    It just boils down to your own personal level of comfort.

                    Anne

                    Tone wrote:
                    >
                    > Anne,
                    > Unfortunately the room with the suspension points was back in my
                    > old apartment in Brooklyn. My wife and I recently moved to York, PA and
                    > are living in another rental apartment. The whole idea behind moving to
                    > PA was to get out of the city to where a house and property is more
                    > affordable, but once we get settled out here and get to know the area we
                    > will try and finally buy something. When we have our own place I really
                    > do want to build a new suspension framework in one of the rooms, but
                    > this time bigger and better if possible since I know what I can improve
                    > on now.
                    > The framework I spoke of is still actually standing in the
                    > apartment we moved out of, but now my old next door neighbor has taken
                    > over the space with a friend, so he is able to set up suspension if he
                    > wants. I took most of the hardware to eventually use in a new place
                    > though, so he will have to invest a little to make suspension happen.
                    >
                    > On top of the twelve overhead movable suspension points there
                    > were also three fixed rings on the vertical posts in each of the four
                    > corners. I used some of the lower and upper loops to hang photo back
                    > drops once or twice, but most of the time I would use the middle ones to
                    > suspend a two-person padded hammock diagonally across the room rather
                    > than sleep on the Murphy bed. I bring this up because when I toured by
                    > bike I brought a different hammock with me, one that was a combo
                    > hammock-tent. Sleeping in that hammock kept me off the cold, hard,
                    > bug-infested, and/or wet ground. I hear what you are saying about
                    > sleeping under the stars and all, but I have to wonder what you would do
                    > if it rained or the insects were out for blood over night.
                    > _TONE_
                    >
                    >
                  • Amos Patrick
                    While sleeping under the stars sounds nice, here in Iowa you definitely need a tent or the skeeters will suck you dry by morning! If you are into making your
                    Message 9 of 29 , Jul 18, 2007
                    • 0 Attachment

                      While sleeping under the stars sounds nice, here in Iowa you definitely need a tent or the skeeters will suck you dry by morning! If you are into making your own gear you should check out this…

                       

                      http://www.thru-hiker.com/workshop.asp?subcat=3&cid=4

                       

                      You can get a kit for about $60. I am about 90% complete with mine and so far it has been pretty easy. And this is my first DIY sewing project.

                       

                      -Amos

                       

                      Amos Patrick

                      Research Assistant

                      Virtual Soldier Research

                      The University of Iowa

                      http://www.ccad.uiowa.edu/vsr/

                       

                       

                    • Tone
                      Anne, Where we are in PA, it is a smaller city with lots of convenient retail businesses and restaurants nearby all roughly five miles or less, but it seems if
                      Message 10 of 29 , Jul 18, 2007
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                        Anne,

                                    Where we are in PA, it is a smaller city with lots of convenient retail businesses and restaurants nearby all roughly five miles or less, but it seems if you bike past that just North or south of the city there is farmland. When we thought about moving here we considered just buying a small house and property cheap within perhaps one of the “bad” neighborhoods, which we would then fix up thereby having a positive effect on the neighborhood overall. Now however, we have become aware of just house close some of that farmland is. My wife really enjoys gardening, and even though we might have been able to have a small backyard within the city, having a whole field to grow edible plants sounds much more appealing. I would not mind having some extra space to eventually build things myself, like a working windmill or kinetic sculptures. Living within 10 miles from the center of town would probably still be practical.

                         

                                    As far as that suspension framework in my old apartment, there were actually no worries with my landlord.

                        SIDE NOTE: To those wondering what the heck this whole suspension rig has to do with Xtracycles, well… guess how I hauled all the lumber to my place? J Just the primary structure itself consisted of a dozen 12’ long 1x12” planks and four 8’ long 4x4s posts. There were also other numerous additional 8’ long 2x4s beams, 8’ long 1x10” planks, and other various 8’ long 1”x-whatevers to make shelving around the edges of the room. I also carried one or two 4’x8’ sheets on my Xtracycle to make table tops. However those I did have to have precut to 2’x8’ pieces.

                                    Anyway, Anne, the reason why I say there were no worries with my landlord is because I built the entire thing in such a way so it did not require any bolts, screws, or other fixed attachment points into the pre-existing walls. Everything about the frame involved friction-fitting. Basically what that means is the framework was built so each side would butt right against the existing walls. Even the planks along the ceiling were raised right into place. After getting those as close to the 9’+ high ceiling using 4x4s, I then used my room mate’s photo-poles to crank the boards directly up against the ceiling. Once everything was butted up against the ceiling, I braced everything in its place with other "permanent" 4x4 posts and thick bolts through them. If you are wondering, photo-poles are pole-systems many photographers will temporarily use to hang up backdrops. Basically they consist of a big pole with another pole inside, which can be slid out then clamped to the desired height. You would stand the whole thing upright, slide the inner pole up until it touches the ceiling, then to secure the whole thing in place so it does not fall over either way you clamp the poles in place with a lever, which also causes the inner pole to extend just a bit further. There are thick rubber gripping pads on both ends of the pole so the thing does not scratch any surface and gets a better grip.

                         

                                    Well, that concludes today’s lesson on photography and carpentry techniques, but remember kids… Xtracycles haul loads of stuff! J

                        _TONE_

                         

                      • issumatuq@aol.com
                        Great Idea Tone and thanks for the lesson! Unfortunately the plaster in our building can barely handle a nail so I m not sure any pressure on ceilings or walls
                        Message 11 of 29 , Jul 18, 2007
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                          Great Idea Tone and thanks for the lesson! Unfortunately the plaster in our building can barely handle a nail so I'm not sure any pressure on ceilings or walls will work but it's great to know.

                          Go with the land if you can.

                          I think I have found something I need to haul that the Xtracycle can't manage - unless someone can figure this one out. I have 14 28' tipi poles and of course the 70 pound covers. Since I have enough trouble with car and the poles it's probably not working with the Xtracycle. So I guess it means I'll have to smil eat someone with a tuck when I need to haul it.


                          -----Original Message-----
                          From: Tone <Tone@...>
                          To: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 12:27 pm
                          Subject: RE: [rootsradicals] bicycle camping

                          Anne,
                                      Where we are in PA, it is a smaller city with lots of convenient retail businesses and restaurants nearby all roughly five miles or less, but it seems if you bike past that just North or south of the city there is farmland. When we thought about moving here we considered just buying a small house and property cheap within perhaps one of the “bad” neighborhoods, which we would then fix up thereby having a positive effect on the neighborhood overall. Now however, we have become aware of just house close some of that farmland is. My wife really enjoys gardening, and even though we might have been able to have a small backyard within the city, having a whole field to grow edible plants sounds much more appealing. I would not mind having some extra space to eventually build things myself, like a working windmill or kinetic sculptures. Living within 10 miles from the center of town would probably still be practical.
                           
                                      As far as that suspension framework in my old apartment, there were actually no worries with my landlord.
                          SIDE NOTE: To those wondering what the heck this whole suspension rig has to do with Xtracycles, well… guess how I hauled all the lumber to my place? J Just the primary structure itself consisted of a dozen 12’ long 1x12” planks and four 8’ long 4x4s posts. There were also other numerous additional 8’ long 2x4s beams, 8’ long 1x10” planks, and other various 8’ long 1”x-whatevers to make shelving around the edges of the room. I also carried one or two 4’x8’ sheets on my Xtracycle to make table tops. However those I did have to have precut to 2’x8’ pieces.
                                      Anyway, Anne, the reason why I say there were no worries with my landlord is because I built the entire thing in such a way so it did not require any bolts, screws, or other fixed attachment points into the pre-existing walls. Everything about the frame involved friction-fitting. Basically what that means is the framework was built so each side would butt right against the existing walls. Even the planks along the ceiling were raised right into place. After getting those as close to the 9’+ high ceiling using 4x4s, I then used my room mate’s photo-poles to crank the boards directly up against the ceiling. Once everything was butted up against the ceiling, I braced everything in its place with other "permanent" 4x4 posts and thick bolts through them. If you are wondering, photo-poles are pole-systems many photographers will temporarily use to hang up backdrops. Basically they consist of a big pole with another pole inside, which can be slid out then clamped to the desired height. You would stand the whole thing upright, slide the inner pole up until it touches the ceiling, then to secure the whole thing in place so it does not fall over either way you clamp the poles in place with a lever, which also causes the inner pole to extend just a bit further. There are thick rubber gripping pads on both ends of the pole so the thing does not scratch any surface and gets a better grip.
                           
                                      Well, that concludes today’s lesson on photography and carpentry techniques, but remember kids… Xtracycles haul loads of stuff! J
                          _TONE_
                           

                          AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
                        • Mark Garvey
                          ... HEH! Glad you were not offended at least! I seem to do that with uncautious words. I am a big teddy bear and would not willingly offend anyone if
                          Message 12 of 29 , Jul 18, 2007
                          • 0 Attachment
                            On 7/17/07, Anne Littlebird <issumatuq@...> wrote:
                            A weenie!! You called me a weight weenie? Will wonders never cease? I
                            have never in my life been called a weenie - at least not by any one
                            that knows me. OK, so appearances might be deceiving since I am rather
                            petite but most of the 125 lbs is muscle. Having thrown my martial arts
                            teacher a good 20 feet into a wall I am sure he will appreciate the new
                            moniker. You have made my day!


                            HEH!  Glad you were not offended at least!  I seem to do that with uncautious words.  I am a big teddy bear and would not willingly offend anyone if possible!

                            But I use the term "Weight Weenie" to describe the person who will go to EXTREMES to keep weight off the bicycle!  Drilling out a toothbrush for example, weighing  a tent to see which one is lighter by a half ounce, buying $1000 worth of titanium parts so they can save an ounce or so.   One of my FAVORITE of the breed is a guy I know who is bigger than ME! (I am 6-0  240 lbs!)  He is wildly fanatic on having the lightest and  hence "fasteest" bike around.  Of course, he is about 260 or so and losing 10-12 lbs is absolutely not in his plans!

                            By the way, If you want to stay skinny?   Work on it when you are UNDER 50!   Holy smokes!  Losing weight after 50 simply SUCKS!

                            It's not about weight so much as how I like to spend my time in the
                            woods. I like to be out in the open not sealed up in a dome of nylon.
                            Just personal preference that's all. And my training. I reserve the
                            comfort when I have to wear the slinky formal and heels and therefore
                            will ride in a car to get to the next gig. Which unfortunately I have to
                            do on Friday.

                            Hey!  slinky dress and high heels is fun too!  and I too love to sleep under the stars.  the funny thing is that I happen to LIKE my little tent!  My grand daughter likes it too, though when I go camping with HER, we barely have room in the tent!  she likes to take about 15-20 stuffed animals along! Good thing she is only 3 and about 25 lbs!  I can't WAIT to get my X and give her a ride on the back!


                            Note on your scary combination!  Well, yes, Mohawk (which tribe of Mohawk? they were and are a large confederation of tribes if I recall correctly)  is somewhat scary!  Irish is scarier!   By the way, my Sister Becky is  a "member" of the Tshimshian Indians.  We were living in a remote Tshimshian village in Alaska when she was born (my father was a missionary::::sigh:::  but I loved AK!) and no one in the village had EVER seen a blue eyed blond baby! (this was 1960)  So they went through some sort of thing to make her a tribal member.  At least in theory!  Very kind and fine people!

                            mark

                            And you are not a slacker at all. Just a very brave man.

                            Anne ( a scary combination of Mohawk, Shawnee and Irish)

                            Mark Garvey wrote:
                            >
                            > Good Lord!  Let's not be weight weenies here!   I got a great Tent (I
                            > like it anyway!) for $35 from a big box hardware store that came with
                            > twosleeping bags.   the beast fits at least 3 people with ELBOW room!
                            > One in luxury and two very comfortably, Yeah, it is sort of heavy!
                            > maybe 5-6 lbs or so, maybe more!  who cares!  that is the POINt behind
                            > an X after all, carrying your STUFF!  As soon as mine comes, I plan an
                            > overnight shakedown on the CVNT from Cedar Rapids to wherever I can
                            > end up.   hauling my old blue nylon tent or maybe the K-Mart one that
                            > my buddy Kenny got for $20 when the tree fell on his nice one on
                            > RAGBRAI 2 years ago!  I guess I am a slacker or something, but paying
                            > $500 or so for a single man tent is not my idea of practical.  Even
                            > $100 comes sort of hard to us!  Buying the X is a sacrifice!  I am
                            > paying more for that alone than I have for nearly any bicycle I have
                            > ever owned!
                            >
                            > In any case those Topeak tents look sort of cool!  But using your bike
                            > and front wheel as the tent poles is a bit lame I think!
                            >
                            > mark
                            >
                            > On 7/17/07, * Anne Littlebird* <issumatuq@...
                            > <mailto:issumatuq@...>> wrote:
                            >
                            >     Tone,
                            >
                            >     I saw no offense at all. I just realized you hadn't seen the new tent
                            >     from Topeak. The first one was pretty useless from a set up and
                            >     take off
                            >     on the bike later idea. I like the inner tube frame!
                            >
                            >     Personally for an overnight I'd be a little more austere in my camping
                            >     needs. I can sleep in the woods without a tent. And in most cases
                            >     prefer
                            >     it. But for most people I think the little Topeak might work. The
                            >     price
                            >     is pretty good and it's certainly small.
                            >
                            >     Can I come to your house and play? Sounds awesome!
                            >
                            >     Anne
                            >
                            >     Tone wrote:
                            >     >
                            >     > Devian & Anne,
                            >     >
                            >     > I really hope you did not take offense at my comments to Ben. I
                            >     > sincerely did not mean to criticize any person on the list with my
                            >     > comments. I work as a graphics designer along with my past as a bike
                            >     > messenger, so at times I know I can be critical, but I WAS
                            >     definitely
                            >     > directing my comments toward Topeak. When I checked out that link I
                            >     > did not take a look at the differences Topeak made in their newer
                            >     > model. I think it IS cool they changed their design completely, but
                            >     > still took the extra effort to continue to not use heavier poles in
                            >     > their design. I admittedly would never have thought to use
                            >     inflatable
                            >     > inner tubes as structural elements, so I applaud their innovation.
                            >     > That IS a good idea. J My primary gripe was a user could not hop on
                            >     > their bike when their tent was assembled, and clearly they fixed
                            >     that
                            >     > issue.
                            >     >
                            >     > It is strange I did not think of inner tubes, because I bought a
                            >     case
                            >     > of inner tubes in bulk to have extras for my own use, sell cheap to
                            >     > messenger friends, and experiment with for fun artsy projects. I my
                            >     > old bedroom, which was more like a work studio because I built in a
                            >     > fold up Murphy bed, I had also set up a wooden framework across the
                            >     > ceiling, which had a dozen movable suspension points. I had four
                            >     > wooden bench swings I could put up, pull-up bars I could
                            >     exercise on,
                            >     > a punching bag to practice martial arts on, or I could even just
                            >     > hang-dry clothing when the dryer did not finish the job completely.
                            >     > When I was a kid I always wanted a bedroom with swings and stuff in
                            >     > it, so obviously the idea was to have fun, which is where the bike
                            >     > tubes came into play. I figured out 1.75" wide 26" bicycle tubes
                            >     will
                            >     > stretch out to at least 8'. Also inserting both a persons own feet
                            >     > into a pair of bicycle tubes will allow that individual to
                            >     > bungee-bounce around if they weigh around 150 lbs. Imagine having
                            >     > twelve tubes, which you can step into and bungee-walk around a room
                            >     > on. J It takes practice though, and if full suspension is desired,
                            >     > four tubes will do the trick. J
                            >     >
                            >     > Anyway, I certainly was not intending to down the idea of
                            >     > camping/living by bike alone. There was a messenger I remember
                            >     back in
                            >     > New York City for a few months, who had biked from San Francisco on
                            >     > his Xtracycle all the way to NYC and worked as a messenger on his
                            >     > Xtracycle while not having any permanent residence the entire time.
                            >     > Since I was the only messenger at the time riding an Xtracycle
                            >     in NYC
                            >     > we spoke a bit when we saw each other on the road. I remember him
                            >     > telling me how he just carried a tarp rolled up around a few sticks
                            >     > and I think a rolled up sheet of cardboard from a bike box. When he
                            >     > wanted to camp he would simply set his Xtracycle on its side in
                            >     such a
                            >     > way so his pedals would not stick out either side (I forget if
                            >     he had
                            >     > folding pedals or if he just took them off every night), then
                            >     lay the
                            >     > cardboard over his bike with the sticks stuck in the ground
                            >     around the
                            >     > bike. He would then pull the tarp over him and the entire bike and
                            >     > sleep over the lying bike frame itself on the cardboard with a
                            >     > sleeping bag. The sticks standing in the ground would keep the
                            >     tarp up
                            >     > a little so it would not rest on him completely. I remember him
                            >     saying
                            >     > it was not as comfortable as a bed of course, but it kept him from
                            >     > lying on the potentially cold, rocky, and/or wet ground. People
                            >     > encountering him "camping" would just see a tarp over some pile of
                            >     > debris or whatever. As he worked in NYC I think he was able to find
                            >     > some discarded corrugated-plastic, which replaced the bike-box
                            >     > cardboard and gave him a more comfortable sleeping surface. Also,
                            >     > since he was now working in one city rather than on the road he
                            >     saved
                            >     > up some money and bought a pair of H-racks for the Xtracycle,
                            >     which he
                            >     > was also able to adapt to keep the tarp up and replace the sticks,
                            >     > which he carried around. Unfortunately for him many times the
                            >     cops or
                            >     > a park ranger would come along and figure out what the deal was and
                            >     > force him to move on. Sadly I lost track of him because he had not
                            >     > completely realized how cold the NYC winters can get nor prepared
                            >     > enough for that sort of weather. I do not believe San Francisco gets
                            >     > as cold as NYC. Do not worry though. I know he did not freeze or
                            >     > anything! I just think he rode on out of NYC.
                            >     >
                            >     > From my personal experience I would much rather travel by bike
                            >     alone.
                            >     > I use to organize a couple of Memorial weekend messenger camping
                            >     trips
                            >     > from NYC to Harriman State Park, which involved a 4-6 hour ride
                            >     before
                            >     > we could set up camp. I biked down to Philly and back twice as well,
                            >     > and cycled from Zurich, Switzerland to Freiburg, Germany and
                            >     back too.
                            >     > I was also part of a multi-day camping ride along the Danube with
                            >     > about 50-60 messengers from all over the world as we toured from
                            >     > Vienna, Austria to Budapest, Hungary for an annual CMWC
                            >     competition.
                            >     > What I am saying is I am no stranger to camping by bike. J It is
                            >     > great, so I would never put down that idea! Even though I moved from
                            >     > NY to PA, I still do not have a driver's license and I ideally
                            >     intend
                            >     > to buy the Surly Big Dummy so my wife and I both have cargo bikes.
                            >     > There are actually a few state parks within 50-100 miles, and
                            >     there is
                            >     > Dutch Amish country I would really like to tour. Later down the
                            >     road
                            >     > if/when I have the funds, I would also really like to buy two 20"
                            >     > wheeled folding bikes and set them up the way I want them. That
                            >     way my
                            >     > wife and I can more conveniently travel somewhere distant (like
                            >     > Portugal where my parents are from as an example) and use only our
                            >     > bikes to get around. Using the Xtracycle-equipped bike for that sort
                            >     > of thing is just not as practical, unless I was to cycle around the
                            >     > entire world, but reality demands I keep a stable job rather than
                            >     > engage in long-term touring. <sigh>
                            >     >
                            >     > Ride safe,
                            >     >
                            >     > _/TONE/_
                            >     >
                            >     >
                            >
                            >
                            >     You're getting this message because you signed up to be an
                            >     Xtracycle roots radical.
                            >
                            >     To Post a message, send it
                            >     to:          rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
                            >     <mailto: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com>
                            >
                            >
                            >     ride to believe.
                            >     Yahoo! Groups Links
                            >
                            >
                            >         (Yahoo! ID required)
                            >
                            >         mailto: rootsradicals-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                            >     <mailto:rootsradicals-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com>
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > --
                            > Putting the fun in dysfunctional for over 50 years!
                            >
                            >
                            > Mark  Garvey
                            > Cedar Rapids, Iowa free state!
                            >
                            > Check out the web site at:
                            > http://www.vine-ave.com <http://www.vine-ave.com>
                            >
                            > contact us to have INVISIBLE INC! appear at your next
                            > program!  Details at www.vine-ave.com <http://www.vine-ave.com>
                            >
                            > I am a bicycling lifestylist!
                            >


                            You're getting this message because you signed up to be an Xtracycle roots radical.

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                            --
                            Putting the fun in dysfunctional for over 50 years!


                            Mark  Garvey
                            Cedar Rapids, Iowa free state!

                            Check out the web site at:
                            http://www.vine-ave.com  

                            contact us to have INVISIBLE INC! appear at your next program!  Details at www.vine-ave.com

                            I am a bicycling lifestylist!
                          • issumatuq@aol.com
                            No that s not me! I have very limited income and can t go way out on the expensive weightless paraphenalia that seem people seem to collect. Yesterday I
                            Message 13 of 29 , Jul 18, 2007
                            • 0 Attachment
                              No that's not me! I have very limited income and can't go way out on the expensive weightless paraphenalia that seem people seem to collect. Yesterday I commuted to work on my old steel raleigh with 3 speeds from 1970. Trust me - it's not about weight. It's about experience and doing things I love the way I love.

                              Oh, and by the way - even though no one believes me I will turn 50 in September. Unlike most of my friends and coworkers, I eat to live not live to eat. And I stay active. I was just born this way - much to the dismay of my 37 year old sister who looks older than me (she's not skinny). :)

                              Anne

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: Mark Garvey <lazybee45@...>
                              To: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 1:48 pm
                              Subject: Re: [rootsradicals] bicycle camping



                              On 7/17/07, Anne Littlebird <issumatuq@aol. com> wrote:
                              A weenie!! You called me a weight weenie? Will wonders never cease? I
                              have never in my life been called a weenie - at least not by any one
                              that knows me. OK, so appearances might be deceiving since I am rather
                              petite but most of the 125 lbs is muscle. Having thrown my martial arts
                              teacher a good 20 feet into a wall I am sure he will appreciate the new
                              moniker. You have made my day!


                              HEH!  Glad you were not offended at least!  I seem to do that with uncautious words.  I am a big teddy bear and would not willingly offend anyone if possible!

                              But I use the term "Weight Weenie" to describe the person who will go to EXTREMES to keep weight off the bicycle!  Drilling out a toothbrush for example, weighing  a tent to see which one is lighter by a half ounce, buying $1000 worth of titanium parts so they can save an ounce or so.   One of my FAVORITE of the breed is a guy I know who is bigger than ME! (I am 6-0  240 lbs!)  He is wildly fanatic on having the lightest and  hence "fasteest" bike around.  Of course, he is about 260 or so and losing 10-12 lbs is absolutely not in his plans!

                              By the way, If you want to stay skinny?   Work on it when you are UNDER 50!   Holy smokes!  Losing weight after 50 simply SUCKS!

                              It's not about weight so much as how I like to spend my time in the
                              woods. I like to be out in the open not sealed up in a dome of nylon.
                              Just personal preference that's all. And my training. I reserve the
                              comfort when I have to wear the slinky formal and heels and therefore
                              will ride in a car to get to the next gig. Which unfortunately I have to
                              do on Friday.

                              Hey!  slinky dress and high heels is fun too!  and I too love to sleep under the stars.  the funny thing is that I happen to LIKE my little tent!  My grand daughter likes it too, though when I go camping with HER, we barely have room in the tent!  she likes to take about 15-20 stuffed animals along! Good thing she is only 3 and about 25 lbs!  I can't WAIT to get my X and give her a ride on the back!


                              Note on your scary combination!  Well, yes, Mohawk (which tribe of Mohawk? they were and are a large confederation of tribes if I recall correctly)  is somewhat scary!  Irish is scarier!   By the way, my Sister Becky is  a "member" of the Tshimshian Indians.  We were living in a remote Tshimshian village in Alaska when she was born (my father was a missionary:: ::sigh:::  but I loved AK!) and no one in the village had EVER seen a blue eyed blond baby! (this was 1960)  So they went through some sort of thing to make her a tribal member.  At least in theory!  Very kind and fine people!

                              mark

                              And you are not a slacker at all. Just a very brave man.

                              Anne ( a scary combination of Mohawk, Shawnee and Irish)

                              Mark Garvey wrote:
                              >
                              > Good Lord!  Let's not be weight weenies here!   I got a great Tent (I
                              > like it anyway!) for $35 from a big box hardware store that came with
                              > twosleeping bags.   the beast fits at least 3 people with ELBOW room!
                              > One in luxury and two very comfortably, Yeah, it is sort of heavy!
                              > maybe 5-6 lbs or so, maybe more!  who cares!  that is the POINt behind
                              > an X after all, carrying your STUFF!  As soon as mine comes, I plan an
                              > overnight shakedown on the CVNT from Cedar Rapids to wherever I can
                              > end up.   hauling my old blue nylon tent or maybe the K-Mart one that
                              > my buddy Kenny got for $20 when the tree fell on his nice one on
                              > RAGBRAI 2 years ago!  I guess I am a slacker or something, but paying
                              > $500 or so for a single man tent is not my idea of practical.  Even
                              > $100 comes sort of hard to us!  Buying the X is a sacrifice!  I am
                              > paying more for that alone than I have for nearly any bicycle I have
                              > ever owned!
                              >
                              > In any case those Topeak tents look sort of cool!  But using your bike
                              > and front wheel as the tent poles is a bit lame I think!
                              >
                              > mark
                              >
                              > On 7/17/07, * Anne Littlebird* <issumatuq@aol. com
                              > <mailto:issumatuq@aol. com>> wrote:
                              >
                              >     Tone,
                              >
                              >     I saw no offense at all. I just realized you hadn't seen the new tent
                              >     from Topeak. The first one was pretty useless from a set up and
                              >     take off
                              >     on the bike later idea. I like the inner tube frame!
                              >
                              >     Personally for an overnight I'd be a little more austere in my camping
                              >     needs. I can sleep in the woods without a tent. And in most cases
                              >     prefer
                              >     it. But for most people I think the little Topeak might work. The
                              >     price
                              >     is pretty good and it's certainly small.
                              >
                              >     Can I come to your house and play? Sounds awesome!
                              >
                              >     Anne
                              >
                              >     Tone wrote:
                              >     >
                              >     > Devian & Anne,
                              >     >
                              >     > I really hope you did not take offense at my comments to Ben. I
                              >     > sincerely did not mean to criticize any person on the list with my
                              >     > comments. I work as a graphics designer along with my past as a bike
                              >     > messenger, so at times I know I can be critical, but I WAS
                              >     definitely
                              >     > directing my comments toward Topeak. When I checked out that link I
                              >     > did not take a look at the differences Topeak made in their newer
                              >     > model. I think it IS cool they changed their design completely, but
                              >     > still took the extra effort to continue to not use heavier poles in
                              >     > their design. I admittedly would never have thought to use
                              >     inflatable
                              >     > inner tubes as structural elements, so I applaud their innovation.
                              >     > That IS a good idea. J My primary gripe was a user could not hop on
                              >     > their bike when their tent was assembled, and clearly they fixed
                              >     that
                              >     > issue.
                              >     >
                              >     > It is strange I did not think of inner tubes, because I bought a
                              >     case
                              >     > of inner tubes in bulk to have extras for my own use, sell cheap to
                              >     > messenger friends, and experiment with for fun artsy projects. I my
                              >     > old bedroom, which was more like a work studio because I built in a
                              >     > fold up Murphy bed, I had also set up a wooden framework across the
                              >     > ceiling, which had a dozen movable suspension points. I had four
                              >     > wooden bench swings I could put up, pull-up bars I could
                              >     exercise on,
                              >     > a punching bag to practice martial arts on, or I could even just
                              >     > hang-dry clothing when the dryer did not finish the job completely.
                              >     > When I was a kid I always wanted a bedroom with swings and stuff in
                              >     > it, so obviously the idea was to have fun, which is where the bike
                              >     > tubes came into play. I figured out 1.75" wide 26" bicycle tubes
                              >     will
                              >     > stretch out to at least 8'. Also inserting both a persons own feet
                              >     > into a pair of bicycle tubes will allow that individual to
                              >     > bungee-bounce around if they weigh around 150 lbs. Imagine having
                              >     > twelve tubes, which you can step into and bungee-walk around a room
                              >     > on. J It takes practice though, and if full suspension is desired,
                              >     > four tubes will do the trick. J
                              >     >
                              >     > Anyway, I certainly was not intending to down the idea of
                              >     > camping/living by bike alone. There was a messenger I remember
                              >     back in
                              >     > New York City for a few months, who had biked from San Francisco on
                              >     > his Xtracycle all the way to NYC and worked as a messenger on his
                              >     > Xtracycle while not having any permanent residence the entire time.
                              >     > Since I was the only messenger at the time riding an Xtracycle
                              >     in NYC
                              >     > we spoke a bit when we saw each other on the road. I remember him
                              >     > telling me how he just carried a tarp rolled up around a few sticks
                              >     > and I think a rolled up sheet of cardboard from a bike box. When he
                              >     > wanted to camp he would simply set his Xtracycle on its side in
                              >     such a
                              >     > way so his pedals would not stick out either side (I forget if
                              >     he had
                              >     > folding pedals or if he just took them off every night), then
                              >     lay the
                              >     > cardboard over his bike with the sticks stuck in the ground
                              >     around the
                              >     > bike. He would then pull the tarp over him and the entire bike and
                              >     > sleep over the lying bike frame itself on the cardboard with a
                              >     > sleeping bag. The sticks standing in the ground would keep the
                              >     tarp up
                              >     > a little so it would not rest on him completely. I remember him
                              >     saying
                              >     > it was not as comfortable as a bed of course, but it kept him from
                              >     > lying on the potentially cold, rocky, and/or wet ground. People
                              >     > encountering him "camping" would just see a tarp over some pile of
                              >     > debris or whatever. As he worked in NYC I think he was able to find
                              >     > some discarded corrugated-plastic, which replaced the bike-box
                              >     > cardboard and gave him a more comfortable sleeping surface. Also,
                              >     > since he was now working in one city rather than on the road he
                              >     saved
                              >     > up some money and bought a pair of H-racks for the Xtracycle,
                              >     which he
                              >     > was also able to adapt to keep the tarp up and replace the sticks,
                              >     > which he carried around. Unfortunately for him many times the
                              >     cops or
                              >     > a park ranger would come along and figure out what the deal was and
                              >     > force him to move on. Sadly I lost track of him because he had not
                              >     > completely realized how cold the NYC winters can get nor prepared
                              >     > enough for that sort of weather. I do not believe San Francisco gets
                              >     > as cold as NYC. Do not worry though. I know he did not freeze or
                              >     > anything! I just think he rode on out of NYC.
                              >     >
                              >     > From my personal experience I would much rather travel by bike
                              >     alone.
                              >     > I use to organize a couple of Memorial weekend messenger camping
                              >     trips
                              >     > from NYC to Harriman State Park, which involved a 4-6 hour ride
                              >     before
                              >     > we could set up camp. I biked down to Philly and back twice as well,
                              >     > and cycled from Zurich, Switzerland to Freiburg, Germany and
                              >     back too.
                              >     > I was also part of a multi-day camping ride along the Danube with
                              >     > about 50-60 messengers from all over the world as we toured from
                              >     > Vienna, Austria to Budapest, Hungary for an annual CMWC
                              >     competition.
                              >     > What I am saying is I am no stranger to camping by bike. J It is
                              >     > great, so I would never put down that idea! Even though I moved from
                              >     > NY to PA, I still do not have a driver's license and I ideally
                              >     intend
                              >     > to buy the Surly Big Dummy so my wife and I both have cargo bikes.
                              >     > There are actually a few state parks within 50-100 miles, and
                              >     there is
                              >     > Dutch Amish country I would really like to tour. Later down the
                              >     road
                              >     > if/when I have the funds, I would also really like to buy two 20"
                              >     > wheeled folding bikes and set them up the way I want them. That
                              >     way my
                              >     > wife and I can more conveniently travel somewhere distant (like
                              >     > Portugal where my parents are from as an example) and use only our
                              >     > bikes to get around. Using the Xtracycle-equipped bike for that sort
                              >     > of thing is just not as practical, unless I was to cycle around the
                              >     > entire world, but reality demands I keep a stable job rather than
                              >     > engage in long-term touring. <sigh>
                              >     >
                              >     > Ride safe,
                              >     >
                              >     > _/TONE/_
                              >     >
                              >     >
                              >
                              >
                              >     You're getting this message because you signed up to be an
                              >     Xtracycle roots radical.
                              >
                              >     To Post a message, send it
                              >     to:          rootsradicals@ yahoogroups. com
                              >     <mailto: rootsradicals@ yahoogroups. com>
                              >
                              >
                              >     ride to believe.
                              >     Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >         (Yahoo! ID required)
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                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --
                              > Putting the fun in dysfunctional for over 50 years!
                              >
                              >
                              > Mark  Garvey
                              > Cedar Rapids, Iowa free state!
                              >
                              > Check out the web site at:
                              > http://www.vine- ave.com <http://www.vine- ave.com>
                              >
                              > contact us to have INVISIBLE INC! appear at your next
                              > program!  Details at www.vine-ave. com <http://www.vine- ave.com>
                              >
                              > I am a bicycling lifestylist!
                              >


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                              --
                              Putting the fun in dysfunctional for over 50 years!


                              Mark  Garvey
                              Cedar Rapids, Iowa free state!

                              Check out the web site at:
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                            • Mark Garvey
                              Funny, my family has the same issues! My wife is often mistaken for one of my daughter s. Well, My daughters and my wife are often mistaken for sisters. I
                              Message 14 of 29 , Jul 18, 2007
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                                Funny, my family has the same issues!  My wife is often mistaken for one of my daughter's.  Well, My daughters and my wife are often mistaken for sisters.  I was playing with a baby in McDonalds the other day and the mom (a sweet young thing!) asked me why I like kids so much, "It is because of my grand daughters partly, But I simply love children!"  she answered, "How can you be a grandfather, you look younger than my MOM!"  When I told her I was nearly 54 (sept 14!)  she was apparently astonished .....maybe she was buttering me up for some reason, but I don't THINK so!

                                I BELIEVE that it is because of two things, 1) that I keep in shape.  Well, round is a shape I guess!  but I try to stay healthy and stay in some sort of condition, riding a bicycle a lot seems to help.   and 2) I really enjoy working with children.  I do balloon animals and birthday parties quite often and it is a fun part time job!  I plan to use my X as a performance platform when it comes!

                                mark

                                On 7/18/07, issumatuq@... <issumatuq@...> wrote:
                                No that's not me! I have very limited income and can't go way out on the expensive weightless paraphenalia that seem people seem to collect. Yesterday I commuted to work on my old steel raleigh with 3 speeds from 1970. Trust me - it's not about weight. It's about experience and doing things I love the way I love.

                                Oh, and by the way - even though no one believes me I will turn 50 in September. Unlike most of my friends and coworkers, I eat to live not live to eat. And I stay active. I was just born this way - much to the dismay of my 37 year old sister who looks older than me (she's not skinny). :)

                                Anne


                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Mark Garvey <lazybee45@...>
                                To: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 1:48 pm
                                Subject: Re: [rootsradicals] bicycle camping



                                On 7/17/07, Anne Littlebird <issumatuq@... > wrote:
                                A weenie!! You called me a weight weenie? Will wonders never cease? I
                                have never in my life been called a weenie - at least not by any one
                                that knows me. OK, so appearances might be deceiving since I am rather
                                petite but most of the 125 lbs is muscle. Having thrown my martial arts
                                teacher a good 20 feet into a wall I am sure he will appreciate the new
                                moniker. You have made my day!


                                HEH!  Glad you were not offended at least!  I seem to do that with uncautious words.  I am a big teddy bear and would not willingly offend anyone if possible!

                                But I use the term "Weight Weenie" to describe the person who will go to EXTREMES to keep weight off the bicycle!  Drilling out a toothbrush for example, weighing  a tent to see which one is lighter by a half ounce, buying $1000 worth of titanium parts so they can save an ounce or so.   One of my FAVORITE of the breed is a guy I know who is bigger than ME! (I am 6-0  240 lbs!)  He is wildly fanatic on having the lightest and  hence "fasteest" bike around.  Of course, he is about 260 or so and losing 10-12 lbs is absolutely not in his plans!

                                By the way, If you want to stay skinny?   Work on it when you are UNDER 50!   Holy smokes!  Losing weight after 50 simply SUCKS!

                                It's not about weight so much as how I like to spend my time in the
                                woods. I like to be out in the open not sealed up in a dome of nylon.
                                Just personal preference that's all. And my training. I reserve the
                                comfort when I have to wear the slinky formal and heels and therefore
                                will ride in a car to get to the next gig. Which unfortunately I have to
                                do on Friday.

                                Hey!  slinky dress and high heels is fun too!  and I too love to sleep under the stars.  the funny thing is that I happen to LIKE my little tent!  My grand daughter likes it too, though when I go camping with HER, we barely have room in the tent!  she likes to take about 15-20 stuffed animals along! Good thing she is only 3 and about 25 lbs!  I can't WAIT to get my X and give her a ride on the back!


                                Note on your scary combination!  Well, yes, Mohawk (which tribe of Mohawk? they were and are a large confederation of tribes if I recall correctly)  is somewhat scary!  Irish is scarier!   By the way, my Sister Becky is  a "member" of the Tshimshian Indians.  We were living in a remote Tshimshian village in Alaska when she was born (my father was a missionary::::sigh:::  but I loved AK!) and no one in the village had EVER seen a blue eyed blond baby! (this was 1960)  So they went through some sort of thing to make her a tribal member.  At least in theory!  Very kind and fine people!

                                mark

                                And you are not a slacker at all. Just a very brave man.

                                Anne ( a scary combination of Mohawk, Shawnee and Irish)

                                Mark Garvey wrote:
                                >
                                > Good Lord!  Let's not be weight weenies here!   I got a great Tent (I
                                > like it anyway!) for $35 from a big box hardware store that came with
                                > twosleeping bags.   the beast fits at least 3 people with ELBOW room!
                                > One in luxury and two very comfortably, Yeah, it is sort of heavy!
                                > maybe 5-6 lbs or so, maybe more!  who cares!  that is the POINt behind
                                > an X after all, carrying your STUFF!  As soon as mine comes, I plan an
                                > overnight shakedown on the CVNT from Cedar Rapids to wherever I can
                                > end up.   hauling my old blue nylon tent or maybe the K-Mart one that
                                > my buddy Kenny got for $20 when the tree fell on his nice one on
                                > RAGBRAI 2 years ago!  I guess I am a slacker or something, but paying
                                > $500 or so for a single man tent is not my idea of practical.  Even
                                > $100 comes sort of hard to us!  Buying the X is a sacrifice!  I am
                                > paying more for that alone than I have for nearly any bicycle I have
                                > ever owned!
                                >
                                > In any case those Topeak tents look sort of cool!  But using your bike
                                > and front wheel as the tent poles is a bit lame I think!
                                >
                                > mark
                                >
                                > On 7/17/07, * Anne Littlebird* <issumatuq@...
                                > <mailto:issumatuq@...>> wrote:
                                >
                                >     Tone,
                                >
                                >     I saw no offense at all. I just realized you hadn't seen the new tent
                                >     from Topeak. The first one was pretty useless from a set up and
                                >     take off
                                >     on the bike later idea. I like the inner tube frame!
                                >
                                >     Personally for an overnight I'd be a little more austere in my camping
                                >     needs. I can sleep in the woods without a tent. And in most cases
                                >     prefer
                                >     it. But for most people I think the little Topeak might work. The
                                >     price
                                >     is pretty good and it's certainly small.
                                >
                                >     Can I come to your house and play? Sounds awesome!
                                >
                                >     Anne
                                >
                                >     Tone wrote:
                                >     >
                                >     > Devian & Anne,
                                >     >
                                >     > I really hope you did not take offense at my comments to Ben. I
                                >     > sincerely did not mean to criticize any person on the list with my
                                >     > comments. I work as a graphics designer along with my past as a bike
                                >     > messenger, so at times I know I can be critical, but I WAS
                                >     definitely
                                >     > directing my comments toward Topeak. When I checked out that link I
                                >     > did not take a look at the differences Topeak made in their newer
                                >     > model. I think it IS cool they changed their design completely, but
                                >     > still took the extra effort to continue to not use heavier poles in
                                >     > their design. I admittedly would never have thought to use
                                >     inflatable
                                >     > inner tubes as structural elements, so I applaud their innovation.
                                >     > That IS a good idea. J My primary gripe was a user could not hop on
                                >     > their bike when their tent was assembled, and clearly they fixed
                                >     that
                                >     > issue.
                                >     >
                                >     > It is strange I did not think of inner tubes, because I bought a
                                >     case
                                >     > of inner tubes in bulk to have extras for my own use, sell cheap to
                                >     > messenger friends, and experiment with for fun artsy projects. I my
                                >     > old bedroom, which was more like a work studio because I built in a
                                >     > fold up Murphy bed, I had also set up a wooden framework across the
                                >     > ceiling, which had a dozen movable suspension points. I had four
                                >     > wooden bench swings I could put up, pull-up bars I could
                                >     exercise on,
                                >     > a punching bag to practice martial arts on, or I could even just
                                >     > hang-dry clothing when the dryer did not finish the job completely.
                                >     > When I was a kid I always wanted a bedroom with swings and stuff in
                                >     > it, so obviously the idea was to have fun, which is where the bike
                                >     > tubes came into play. I figured out 1.75" wide 26" bicycle tubes
                                >     will
                                >     > stretch out to at least 8'. Also inserting both a persons own feet
                                >     > into a pair of bicycle tubes will allow that individual to
                                >     > bungee-bounce around if they weigh around 150 lbs. Imagine having
                                >     > twelve tubes, which you can step into and bungee-walk around a room
                                >     > on. J It takes practice though, and if full suspension is desired,
                                >     > four tubes will do the trick. J
                                >     >
                                >     > Anyway, I certainly was not intending to down the idea of
                                >     > camping/living by bike alone. There was a messenger I remember
                                >     back in
                                >     > New York City for a few months, who had biked from San Francisco on
                                >     > his Xtracycle all the way to NYC and worked as a messenger on his
                                >     > Xtracycle while not having any permanent residence the entire time.
                                >     > Since I was the only messenger at the time riding an Xtracycle
                                >     in NYC
                                >     > we spoke a bit when we saw each other on the road. I remember him
                                >     > telling me how he just carried a tarp rolled up around a few sticks
                                >     > and I think a rolled up sheet of cardboard from a bike box. When he
                                >     > wanted to camp he would simply set his Xtracycle on its side in
                                >     such a
                                >     > way so his pedals would not stick out either side (I forget if
                                >     he had
                                >     > folding pedals or if he just took them off every night), then
                                >     lay the
                                >     > cardboard over his bike with the sticks stuck in the ground
                                >     around the
                                >     > bike. He would then pull the tarp over him and the entire bike and
                                >     > sleep over the lying bike frame itself on the cardboard with a
                                >     > sleeping bag. The sticks standing in the ground would keep the
                                >     tarp up
                                >     > a little so it would not rest on him completely. I remember him
                                >     saying
                                >     > it was not as comfortable as a bed of course, but it kept him from
                                >     > lying on the potentially cold, rocky, and/or wet ground. People
                                >     > encountering him "camping" would just see a tarp over some pile of
                                >     > debris or whatever. As he worked in NYC I think he was able to find
                                >     > some discarded corrugated-plastic, which replaced the bike-box
                                >     > cardboard and gave him a more comfortable sleeping surface. Also,
                                >     > since he was now working in one city rather than on the road he
                                >     saved
                                >     > up some money and bought a pair of H-racks for the Xtracycle,
                                >     which he
                                >     > was also able to adapt to keep the tarp up and replace the sticks,
                                >     > which he carried around. Unfortunately for him many times the
                                >     cops or
                                >     > a park ranger would come along and figure out what the deal was and
                                >     > force him to move on. Sadly I lost track of him because he had not
                                >     > completely realized how cold the NYC winters can get nor prepared
                                >     > enough for that sort of weather. I do not believe San Francisco gets
                                >     > as cold as NYC. Do not worry though. I know he did not freeze or
                                >     > anything! I just think he rode on out of NYC.
                                >     >
                                >     > From my personal experience I would much rather travel by bike
                                >     alone.
                                >     > I use to organize a couple of Memorial weekend messenger camping
                                >     trips
                                >     > from NYC to Harriman State Park, which involved a 4-6 hour ride
                                >     before
                                >     > we could set up camp. I biked down to Philly and back twice as well,
                                >     > and cycled from Zurich, Switzerland to Freiburg, Germany and
                                >     back too.
                                >     > I was also part of a multi-day camping ride along the Danube with
                                >     > about 50-60 messengers from all over the world as we toured from
                                >     > Vienna, Austria to Budapest, Hungary for an annual CMWC
                                >     competition.
                                >     > What I am saying is I am no stranger to camping by bike. J It is
                                >     > great, so I would never put down that idea! Even though I moved from
                                >     > NY to PA, I still do not have a driver's license and I ideally
                                >     intend
                                >     > to buy the Surly Big Dummy so my wife and I both have cargo bikes.
                                >     > There are actually a few state parks within 50-100 miles, and
                                >     there is
                                >     > Dutch Amish country I would really like to tour. Later down the
                                >     road
                                >     > if/when I have the funds, I would also really like to buy two 20"
                                >     > wheeled folding bikes and set them up the way I want them. That
                                >     way my
                                >     > wife and I can more conveniently travel somewhere distant (like
                                >     > Portugal where my parents are from as an example) and use only our
                                >     > bikes to get around. Using the Xtracycle-equipped bike for that sort
                                >     > of thing is just not as practical, unless I was to cycle around the
                                >     > entire world, but reality demands I keep a stable job rather than
                                >     > engage in long-term touring. <sigh>
                                >     >
                                >     > Ride safe,
                                >     >
                                >     > _/TONE/_
                                >     >
                                >     >
                                >
                                >
                                >     You're getting this message because you signed up to be an
                                >     Xtracycle roots radical.
                                >
                                >     To Post a message, send it
                                >     to:          rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
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                                >
                                >
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                                >
                                >
                                > --
                                > Putting the fun in dysfunctional for over 50 years!
                                >
                                >
                                > Mark  Garvey
                                > Cedar Rapids, Iowa free state!
                                >
                                > Check out the web site at:
                                > http://www.vine-ave.com < http://www.vine-ave.com>
                                >
                                > contact us to have INVISIBLE INC! appear at your next
                                > program!  Details at www.vine-ave.com < http://www.vine-ave.com>
                                >
                                > I am a bicycling lifestylist!
                                >


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                                --
                                Putting the fun in dysfunctional for over 50 years!


                                Mark  Garvey
                                Cedar Rapids, Iowa free state!

                                Check out the web site at:
                                http://www.vine-ave.com  

                                contact us to have INVISIBLE INC! appear at your next program!  Details at www.vine-ave.com

                                I am a bicycling lifestylist!

                                AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com .



                                --
                                Putting the fun in dysfunctional for over 50 years!


                                Mark  Garvey
                                Cedar Rapids, Iowa free state!

                                Check out the web site at:
                                http://www.vine-ave.com  

                                contact us to have INVISIBLE INC! appear at your next program!  Details at www.vine-ave.com

                                I am a bicycling lifestylist!
                              • issumatuq@aol.com
                                Nah, it s just us September babies - I m the 29th. We re just awesome. And I love working with kids too. Can t wait for the gentleman to come pick up the
                                Message 15 of 29 , Jul 18, 2007
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                                  Nah, it's just us September babies - I'm the 29th. We're just awesome. And I love working with kids too.

                                  Can't wait for the gentleman to come pick up the corner cupboard I'm selling so I order my X! It's been weeks!

                                  Oh and I don't know why branch of Mohawks - my paternal grandfather was adopted and they tried to keep it quiet. No one else is alive to figure it out. Probably St. Regis from where his parents were from. My Mom's dad was Cherokee and Shawnee - we won't go into that one! Really scary...

                                  Anne
                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: Mark Garvey <lazybee45@...>
                                  To: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 4:29 pm
                                  Subject: Re: [rootsradicals] bicycle camping

                                  Funny, my family has the same issues!  My wife is often mistaken for one of my daughter's.  Well, My daughters and my wife are often mistaken for sisters.  I was playing with a baby in McDonalds the other day and the mom (a sweet young thing!) asked me why I like kids so much, "It is because of my grand daughters partly, But I simply love children!"  she answered, "How can you be a grandfather, you look younger than my MOM!"  When I told her I was nearly 54 (sept 14!)  she was apparently astonished .....maybe she was buttering me up for some reason, but I don't THINK so!

                                  I BELIEVE that it is because of two things, 1) that I keep in shape.  Well, round is a shape I guess!  but I try to stay healthy and stay in some sort of condition, riding a bicycle a lot seems to help.   and 2) I really enjoy working with children.  I do balloon animals and birthday parties quite often and it is a fun part time job!  I plan to use my X as a performance platform when it comes!

                                  mark

                                  On 7/18/07, issumatuq@aol. com <issumatuq@aol. com> wrote:
                                  No that's not me! I have very limited income and can't go way out on the expensive weightless paraphenalia that seem people seem to collect. Yesterday I commuted to work on my old steel raleigh with 3 speeds from 1970. Trust me - it's not about weight. It's about experience and doing things I love the way I love.

                                  Oh, and by the way - even though no one believes me I will turn 50 in September. Unlike most of my friends and coworkers, I eat to live not live to eat. And I stay active. I was just born this way - much to the dismay of my 37 year old sister who looks older than me (she's not skinny). :)

                                  Anne


                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: Mark Garvey <lazybee45@gmail. com>
                                  To: rootsradicals@ yahoogroups. com
                                  Sent: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 1:48 pm
                                  Subject: Re: [rootsradicals] bicycle camping



                                  On 7/17/07, Anne Littlebird <issumatuq@aol. com > wrote:
                                  A weenie!! You called me a weight weenie? Will wonders never cease? I
                                  have never in my life been called a weenie - at least not by any one
                                  that knows me. OK, so appearances might be deceiving since I am rather
                                  petite but most of the 125 lbs is muscle. Having thrown my martial arts
                                  teacher a good 20 feet into a wall I am sure he will appreciate the new
                                  moniker. You have made my day!


                                  HEH!  Glad you were not offended at least!  I seem to do that with uncautious words.  I am a big teddy bear and would not willingly offend anyone if possible!

                                  But I use the term "Weight Weenie" to describe the person who will go to EXTREMES to keep weight off the bicycle!  Drilling out a toothbrush for example, weighing  a tent to see which one is lighter by a half ounce, buying $1000 worth of titanium parts so they can save an ounce or so.   One of my FAVORITE of the breed is a guy I know who is bigger than ME! (I am 6-0  240 lbs!)  He is wildly fanatic on having the lightest and  hence "fasteest" bike around.  Of course, he is about 260 or so and losing 10-12 lbs is absolutely not in his plans!

                                  By the way, If you want to stay skinny?   Work on it when you are UNDER 50!   Holy smokes!  Losing weight after 50 simply SUCKS!

                                  It's not about weight so much as how I like to spend my time in the
                                  woods. I like to be out in the open not sealed up in a dome of nylon.
                                  Just personal preference that's all. And my training. I reserve the
                                  comfort when I have to wear the slinky formal and heels and therefore
                                  will ride in a car to get to the next gig. Which unfortunately I have to
                                  do on Friday.

                                  Hey!  slinky dress and high heels is fun too!  and I too love to sleep under the stars.  the funny thing is that I happen to LIKE my little tent!  My grand daughter likes it too, though when I go camping with HER, we barely have room in the tent!  she likes to take about 15-20 stuffed animals along! Good thing she is only 3 and about 25 lbs!  I can't WAIT to get my X and give her a ride on the back!


                                  Note on your scary combination!  Well, yes, Mohawk (which tribe of Mohawk? they were and are a large confederation of tribes if I recall correctly)  is somewhat scary!  Irish is scarier!   By the way, my Sister Becky is  a "member" of the Tshimshian Indians.  We were living in a remote Tshimshian village in Alaska when she was born (my father was a missionary:: ::sigh:::  but I loved AK!) and no one in the village had EVER seen a blue eyed blond baby! (this was 1960)  So they went through some sort of thing to make her a tribal member.  At least in theory!  Very kind and fine people!

                                  mark

                                  And you are not a slacker at all. Just a very brave man.

                                  Anne ( a scary combination of Mohawk, Shawnee and Irish)

                                  Mark Garvey wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Good Lord!  Let's not be weight weenies here!   I got a great Tent (I
                                  > like it anyway!) for $35 from a big box hardware store that came with
                                  > twosleeping bags.   the beast fits at least 3 people with ELBOW room!
                                  > One in luxury and two very comfortably, Yeah, it is sort of heavy!
                                  > maybe 5-6 lbs or so, maybe more!  who cares!  that is the POINt behind
                                  > an X after all, carrying your STUFF!  As soon as mine comes, I plan an
                                  > overnight shakedown on the CVNT from Cedar Rapids to wherever I can
                                  > end up.   hauling my old blue nylon tent or maybe the K-Mart one that
                                  > my buddy Kenny got for $20 when the tree fell on his nice one on
                                  > RAGBRAI 2 years ago!  I guess I am a slacker or something, but paying
                                  > $500 or so for a single man tent is not my idea of practical.  Even
                                  > $100 comes sort of hard to us!  Buying the X is a sacrifice!  I am
                                  > paying more for that alone than I have for nearly any bicycle I have
                                  > ever owned!
                                  >
                                  > In any case those Topeak tents look sort of cool!  But using your bike
                                  > and front wheel as the tent poles is a bit lame I think!
                                  >
                                  > mark
                                  >
                                  > On 7/17/07, * Anne Littlebird* <issumatuq@aol. com
                                  > <mailto:issumatuq@aol. com>> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >     Tone,
                                  >
                                  >     I saw no offense at all. I just realized you hadn't seen the new tent
                                  >     from Topeak. The first one was pretty useless from a set up and
                                  >     take off
                                  >     on the bike later idea. I like the inner tube frame!
                                  >
                                  >     Personally for an overnight I'd be a little more austere in my camping
                                  >     needs. I can sleep in the woods without a tent. And in most cases
                                  >     prefer
                                  >     it. But for most people I think the little Topeak might work. The
                                  >     price
                                  >     is pretty good and it's certainly small.
                                  >
                                  >     Can I come to your house and play? Sounds awesome!
                                  >
                                  >     Anne
                                  >
                                  >     Tone wrote:
                                  >     >
                                  >     > Devian & Anne,
                                  >     >
                                  >     > I really hope you did not take offense at my comments to Ben. I
                                  >     > sincerely did not mean to criticize any person on the list with my
                                  >     > comments. I work as a graphics designer along with my past as a bike
                                  >     > messenger, so at times I know I can be critical, but I WAS
                                  >     definitely
                                  >     > directing my comments toward Topeak. When I checked out that link I
                                  >     > did not take a look at the differences Topeak made in their newer
                                  >     > model. I think it IS cool they changed their design completely, but
                                  >     > still took the extra effort to continue to not use heavier poles in
                                  >     > their design. I admittedly would never have thought to use
                                  >     inflatable
                                  >     > inner tubes as structural elements, so I applaud their innovation.
                                  >     > That IS a good idea. J My primary gripe was a user could not hop on
                                  >     > their bike when their tent was assembled, and clearly they fixed
                                  >     that
                                  >     > issue.
                                  >     >
                                  >     > It is strange I did not think of inner tubes, because I bought a
                                  >     case
                                  >     > of inner tubes in bulk to have extras for my own use, sell cheap to
                                  >     > messenger friends, and experiment with for fun artsy projects. I my
                                  >     > old bedroom, which was more like a work studio because I built in a
                                  >     > fold up Murphy bed, I had also set up a wooden framework across the
                                  >     > ceiling, which had a dozen movable suspension points. I had four
                                  >     > wooden bench swings I could put up, pull-up bars I could
                                  >     exercise on,
                                  >     > a punching bag to practice martial arts on, or I could even just
                                  >     > hang-dry clothing when the dryer did not finish the job completely.
                                  >     > When I was a kid I always wanted a bedroom with swings and stuff in
                                  >     > it, so obviously the idea was to have fun, which is where the bike
                                  >     > tubes came into play. I figured out 1.75" wide 26" bicycle tubes
                                  >     will
                                  >     > stretch out to at least 8'. Also inserting both a persons own feet
                                  >     > into a pair of bicycle tubes will allow that individual to
                                  >     > bungee-bounce around if they weigh around 150 lbs. Imagine having
                                  >     > twelve tubes, which you can step into and bungee-walk around a room
                                  >     > on. J It takes practice though, and if full suspension is desired,
                                  >     > four tubes will do the trick. J
                                  >     >
                                  >     > Anyway, I certainly was not intending to down the idea of
                                  >     > camping/living by bike alone. There was a messenger I remember
                                  >     back in
                                  >     > New York City for a few months, who had biked from San Francisco on
                                  >     > his Xtracycle all the way to NYC and worked as a messenger on his
                                  >     > Xtracycle while not having any permanent residence the entire time.
                                  >     > Since I was the only messenger at the time riding an Xtracycle
                                  >     in NYC
                                  >     > we spoke a bit when we saw each other on the road. I remember him
                                  >     > telling me how he just carried a tarp rolled up around a few sticks
                                  >     > and I think a rolled up sheet of cardboard from a bike box. When he
                                  >     > wanted to camp he would simply set his Xtracycle on its side in
                                  >     such a
                                  >     > way so his pedals would not stick out either side (I forget if
                                  >     he had
                                  >     > folding pedals or if he just took them off every night), then
                                  >     lay the
                                  >     > cardboard over his bike with the sticks stuck in the ground
                                  >     around the
                                  >     > bike. He would then pull the tarp over him and the entire bike and
                                  >     > sleep over the lying bike frame itself on the cardboard with a
                                  >     > sleeping bag. The sticks standing in the ground would keep the
                                  >     tarp up
                                  >     > a little so it would not rest on him completely. I remember him
                                  >     saying
                                  >     > it was not as comfortable as a bed of course, but it kept him from
                                  >     > lying on the potentially cold, rocky, and/or wet ground. People
                                  >     > encountering him "camping" would just see a tarp over some pile of
                                  >     > debris or whatever. As he worked in NYC I think he was able to find
                                  >     > some discarded corrugated-plastic, which replaced the bike-box
                                  >     > cardboard and gave him a more comfortable sleeping surface. Also,
                                  >     > since he was now working in one city rather than on the road he
                                  >     saved
                                  >     > up some money and bought a pair of H-racks for the Xtracycle,
                                  >     which he
                                  >     > was also able to adapt to keep the tarp up and replace the sticks,
                                  >     > which he carried around. Unfortunately for him many times the
                                  >     cops or
                                  >     > a park ranger would come along and figure out what the deal was and
                                  >     > force him to move on. Sadly I lost track of him because he had not
                                  >     > completely realized how cold the NYC winters can get nor prepared
                                  >     > enough for that sort of weather. I do not believe San Francisco gets
                                  >     > as cold as NYC. Do not worry though. I know he did not freeze or
                                  >     > anything! I just think he rode on out of NYC.
                                  >     >
                                  >     > From my personal experience I would much rather travel by bike
                                  >     alone.
                                  >     > I use to organize a couple of Memorial weekend messenger camping
                                  >     trips
                                  >     > from NYC to Harriman State Park, which involved a 4-6 hour ride
                                  >     before
                                  >     > we could set up camp. I biked down to Philly and back twice as well,
                                  >     > and cycled from Zurich, Switzerland to Freiburg, Germany and
                                  >     back too.
                                  >     > I was also part of a multi-day camping ride along the Danube with
                                  >     > about 50-60 messengers from all over the world as we toured from
                                  >     > Vienna, Austria to Budapest, Hungary for an annual CMWC
                                  >     competition.
                                  >     > What I am saying is I am no stranger to camping by bike. J It is
                                  >     > great, so I would never put down that idea! Even though I moved from
                                  >     > NY to PA, I still do not have a driver's license and I ideally
                                  >     intend
                                  >     > to buy the Surly Big Dummy so my wife and I both have cargo bikes.
                                  >     > There are actually a few state parks within 50-100 miles, and
                                  >     there is
                                  >     > Dutch Amish country I would really like to tour. Later down the
                                  >     road
                                  >     > if/when I have the funds, I would also really like to buy two 20"
                                  >     > wheeled folding bikes and set them up the way I want them. That
                                  >     way my
                                  >     > wife and I can more conveniently travel somewhere distant (like
                                  >     > Portugal where my parents are from as an example) and use only our
                                  >     > bikes to get around. Using the Xtracycle-equipped bike for that sort
                                  >     > of thing is just not as practical, unless I was to cycle around the
                                  >     > entire world, but reality demands I keep a stable job rather than
                                  >     > engage in long-term touring. <sigh>
                                  >     >
                                  >     > Ride safe,
                                  >     >
                                  >     > _/TONE/_
                                  >     >
                                  >     >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >     You're getting this message because you signed up to be an
                                  >     Xtracycle roots radical.
                                  >
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                                  >     to:          rootsradicals@ yahoogroups. com
                                  >     <mailto: rootsradicals@ yahoogroups. com>
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >     ride to believe.
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                                  >
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                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --
                                  > Putting the fun in dysfunctional for over 50 years!
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Mark  Garvey
                                  > Cedar Rapids, Iowa free state!
                                  >
                                  > Check out the web site at:
                                  > http://www.vine- ave.com < http://www.vine- ave.com>
                                  >
                                  > contact us to have INVISIBLE INC! appear at your next
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                                  > I am a bicycling lifestylist!
                                  >


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                                  --
                                  Putting the fun in dysfunctional for over 50 years!


                                  Mark  Garvey
                                  Cedar Rapids, Iowa free state!

                                  Check out the web site at:
                                  http://www.vine- ave.com  

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                                  I am a bicycling lifestylist!

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                                  --
                                  Putting the fun in dysfunctional for over 50 years!


                                  Mark  Garvey
                                  Cedar Rapids, Iowa free state!

                                  Check out the web site at:
                                  http://www.vine- ave.com  

                                  contact us to have INVISIBLE INC! appear at your next program!  Details at www.vine-ave. com

                                  I am a bicycling lifestylist!

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                                • Devian Gilbert
                                  slow food http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slow_Food slow society http://www.slowsociety.se/ etc peace...d www.AsanaCycles.com ride bikes
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Jul 18, 2007
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    slow food
                                    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slow_Food
                                    slow society
                                    http://www.slowsociety.se/

                                    etc

                                    peace...d
                                    www.AsanaCycles.com

                                    ride bikes


                                    On Wednesday, July 18, 2007, at 01:08PM, <issumatuq@...> wrote:
                                    >No that's not me! I have very limited income and can't go way out on the expensive weightless paraphenalia that seem people seem to collect. Yesterday I commuted to work on my old steel raleigh with 3 speeds from 1970. Trust me - it's not about weight. It's about experience and doing things I love the way I love.
                                    >
                                    >Oh, and by the way - even though no one believes me I will turn 50 in September. Unlike most of my friends and coworkers, I eat to live not live to eat. And I stay active. I was just born this way - much to the dismay of my 37 year old sister who looks older than me (she's not skinny). :)
                                    >
                                    >Anne
                                    >
                                    >-----Original Message-----
                                    >From: Mark Garvey <lazybee45@...>
                                    >To: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
                                    >Sent: Wed, 18 Jul 2007 1:48 pm
                                    >Subject: Re: [rootsradicals] bicycle camping
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >On 7/17/07, Anne Littlebird <issumatuq@...> wrote:
                                    >A weenie!! You called me a weight weenie? Will wonders never cease? I
                                    >have never in my life been called a weenie - at least not by any one
                                    >that knows me. OK, so appearances might be deceiving since I am rather
                                    >petite but most of the 125 lbs is muscle. Having thrown my martial arts
                                    >teacher a good 20 feet into a wall I am sure he will appreciate the new
                                    >moniker. You have made my day!
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >HEH!? Glad you were not offended at least!? I seem to do that with uncautious words.? I am a big teddy bear and would not willingly offend anyone if possible!
                                    >
                                    >But I use the term "Weight Weenie" to describe the person who will go to EXTREMES to keep weight off the bicycle!? Drilling out a toothbrush for example, weighing? a tent to see which one is lighter by a half ounce, buying $1000 worth of titanium parts so they can save an ounce or so.?? One of my FAVORITE of the breed is a guy I know who is bigger than ME! (I am 6-0? 240 lbs!)? He is wildly fanatic on having the lightest and? hence "fasteest" bike around.? Of course, he is about 260 or so and losing 10-12 lbs is absolutely not in his plans!
                                    >
                                    >By the way, If you want to stay skinny? ? Work on it when you are UNDER 50!?? Holy smokes!? Losing weight after 50 simply SUCKS!
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >It's not about weight so much as how I like to spend my time in the
                                    >woods. I like to be out in the open not sealed up in a dome of nylon.
                                    >Just personal preference that's all. And my training. I reserve the
                                    >comfort when I have to wear the slinky formal and heels and therefore
                                    >will ride in a car to get to the next gig. Which unfortunately I have to
                                    >do on Friday.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >Hey!? slinky dress and high heels is fun too!? and I too love to sleep under the stars.? the funny thing is that I happen to LIKE my little tent!? My grand daughter likes it too, though when I go camping with HER, we barely have room in the tent!? she likes to take about 15-20 stuffed animals along! Good thing she is only 3 and about 25 lbs!? I can't WAIT to get my X and give her a ride on the back!
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >Note on your scary combination!? Well, yes, Mohawk (which tribe of Mohawk? they were and are a large confederation of tribes if I recall correctly)? is somewhat scary!? Irish is scarier!?? By the way, my Sister Becky is? a "member" of the Tshimshian Indians.? We were living in a remote Tshimshian village in Alaska when she was born (my father was a missionary::::sigh:::? but I loved AK!) and no one in the village had EVER seen a blue eyed blond baby! (this was 1960)? So they went through some sort of thing to make her a tribal member.? At least in theory!? Very kind and fine people!
                                    >
                                    >mark
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >And you are not a slacker at all. Just a very brave man.
                                    >
                                    >Anne ( a scary combination of Mohawk, Shawnee and Irish)
                                    >
                                    >Mark Garvey wrote:
                                    >>
                                    >> Good Lord!??Let's not be weight weenies here!?? I got a great Tent (I
                                    >> like it anyway!) for $35 from a big box hardware store that came with
                                    >> twosleeping bags.?? the beast fits at least 3 people with ELBOW room!
                                    >> One in luxury and two very comfortably, Yeah, it is sort of heavy!
                                    >> maybe 5-6 lbs or so, maybe more!??who cares!??that is the POINt behind
                                    >> an X after all, carrying your STUFF!??As soon as mine comes, I plan an
                                    >> overnight shakedown on the CVNT from Cedar Rapids to wherever I can
                                    >> end up.?? hauling my old blue nylon tent or maybe the K-Mart one that
                                    >> my buddy Kenny got for $20 when the tree fell on his nice one on
                                    >> RAGBRAI 2 years ago!??I guess I am a slacker or something, but paying
                                    >> $500 or so for a single man tent is not my idea of practical.??Even
                                    >> $100 comes sort of hard to us!??Buying the X is a sacrifice!??I am
                                    >> paying more for that alone than I have for nearly any bicycle I have
                                    >> ever owned!
                                    >>
                                    >> In any case those Topeak tents look sort of cool!??But using your bike
                                    >> and front wheel as the tent poles is a bit lame I think!
                                    >>
                                    >> mark
                                    >>
                                    >> On 7/17/07, * Anne Littlebird* <issumatuq@...
                                    >> <mailto:issumatuq@...>> wrote:
                                    >>
                                    >>???? Tone,
                                    >>
                                    >>???? I saw no offense at all. I just realized you hadn't seen the new tent
                                    >>???? from Topeak. The first one was pretty useless from a set up and
                                    >>???? take off
                                    >>???? on the bike later idea. I like the inner tube frame!
                                    >>
                                    >>???? Personally for an overnight I'd be a little more austere in my camping
                                    >>???? needs. I can sleep in the woods without a tent. And in most cases
                                    >>???? prefer
                                    >>???? it. But for most people I think the little Topeak might work. The
                                    >>???? price
                                    >>???? is pretty good and it's certainly small.
                                    >>
                                    >>???? Can I come to your house and play? Sounds awesome!
                                    >>
                                    >>???? Anne
                                    >>
                                    >>???? Tone wrote:
                                    >>???? >
                                    >>???? > Devian & Anne,
                                    >>???? >
                                    >>???? > I really hope you did not take offense at my comments to Ben. I
                                    >>???? > sincerely did not mean to criticize any person on the list with my
                                    >>???? > comments. I work as a graphics designer along with my past as a bike
                                    >>???? > messenger, so at times I know I can be critical, but I WAS
                                    >>???? definitely
                                    >>???? > directing my comments toward Topeak. When I checked out that link I
                                    >>???? > did not take a look at the differences Topeak made in their newer
                                    >>???? > model. I think it IS cool they changed their design completely, but
                                    >>???? > still took the extra effort to continue to not use heavier poles in
                                    >>???? > their design. I admittedly would never have thought to use
                                    >>???? inflatable
                                    >>???? > inner tubes as structural elements, so I applaud their innovation.
                                    >>???? > That IS a good idea. J My primary gripe was a user could not hop on
                                    >>???? > their bike when their tent was assembled, and clearly they fixed
                                    >>???? that
                                    >>???? > issue.
                                    >>???? >
                                    >>???? > It is strange I did not think of inner tubes, because I bought a
                                    >>???? case
                                    >>???? > of inner tubes in bulk to have extras for my own use, sell cheap to
                                    >>???? > messenger friends, and experiment with for fun artsy projects. I my
                                    >>???? > old bedroom, which was more like a work studio because I built in a
                                    >>???? > fold up Murphy bed, I had also set up a wooden framework across the
                                    >>???? > ceiling, which had a dozen movable suspension points. I had four
                                    >>???? > wooden bench swings I could put up, pull-up bars I could
                                    >>???? exercise on,
                                    >>???? > a punching bag to practice martial arts on, or I could even just
                                    >>???? > hang-dry clothing when the dryer did not finish the job completely.
                                    >>???? > When I was a kid I always wanted a bedroom with swings and stuff in
                                    >>???? > it, so obviously the idea was to have fun, which is where the bike
                                    >>???? > tubes came into play. I figured out 1.75" wide 26" bicycle tubes
                                    >>???? will
                                    >>???? > stretch out to at least 8'. Also inserting both a persons own feet
                                    >>???? > into a pair of bicycle tubes will allow that individual to
                                    >>???? > bungee-bounce around if they weigh around 150 lbs. Imagine having
                                    >>???? > twelve tubes, which you can step into and bungee-walk around a room
                                    >>???? > on. J It takes practice though, and if full suspension is desired,
                                    >>???? > four tubes will do the trick. J
                                    >>???? >
                                    >>???? > Anyway, I certainly was not intending to down the idea of
                                    >>???? > camping/living by bike alone. There was a messenger I remember
                                    >>???? back in
                                    >>???? > New York City for a few months, who had biked from San Francisco on
                                    >>???? > his Xtracycle all the way to NYC and worked as a messenger on his
                                    >>???? > Xtracycle while not having any permanent residence the entire time.
                                    >>???? > Since I was the only messenger at the time riding an Xtracycle
                                    >>???? in NYC
                                    >>???? > we spoke a bit when we saw each other on the road. I remember him
                                    >>???? > telling me how he just carried a tarp rolled up around a few sticks
                                    >>???? > and I think a rolled up sheet of cardboard from a bike box. When he
                                    >>???? > wanted to camp he would simply set his Xtracycle on its side in
                                    >>???? such a
                                    >>???? > way so his pedals would not stick out either side (I forget if
                                    >>???? he had
                                    >>???? > folding pedals or if he just took them off every night), then
                                    >>???? lay the
                                    >>???? > cardboard over his bike with the sticks stuck in the ground
                                    >>???? around the
                                    >>???? > bike. He would then pull the tarp over him and the entire bike and
                                    >>???? > sleep over the lying bike frame itself on the cardboard with a
                                    >>???? > sleeping bag. The sticks standing in the ground would keep the
                                    >>???? tarp up
                                    >>???? > a little so it would not rest on him completely. I remember him
                                    >>???? saying
                                    >>???? > it was not as comfortable as a bed of course, but it kept him from
                                    >>???? > lying on the potentially cold, rocky, and/or wet ground. People
                                    >>???? > encountering him "camping" would just see a tarp over some pile of
                                    >>???? > debris or whatever. As he worked in NYC I think he was able to find
                                    >>???? > some discarded corrugated-plastic, which replaced the bike-box
                                    >>???? > cardboard and gave him a more comfortable sleeping surface. Also,
                                    >>???? > since he was now working in one city rather than on the road he
                                    >>???? saved
                                    >>???? > up some money and bought a pair of H-racks for the Xtracycle,
                                    >>???? which he
                                    >>???? > was also able to adapt to keep the tarp up and replace the sticks,
                                    >>???? > which he carried around. Unfortunately for him many times the
                                    >>???? cops or
                                    >>???? > a park ranger would come along and figure out what the deal was and
                                    >>???? > force him to move on. Sadly I lost track of him because he had not
                                    >>???? > completely realized how cold the NYC winters can get nor prepared
                                    >>???? > enough for that sort of weather. I do not believe San Francisco gets
                                    >>???? > as cold as NYC. Do not worry though. I know he did not freeze or
                                    >>???? > anything! I just think he rode on out of NYC.
                                    >>???? >
                                    >>???? > From my personal experience I would much rather travel by bike
                                    >>???? alone.
                                    >>???? > I use to organize a couple of Memorial weekend messenger camping
                                    >>???? trips
                                    >>???? > from NYC to Harriman State Park, which involved a 4-6 hour ride
                                    >>???? before
                                    >>???? > we could set up camp. I biked down to Philly and back twice as well,
                                    >>???? > and cycled from Zurich, Switzerland to Freiburg, Germany and
                                    >>???? back too.
                                    >>???? > I was also part of a multi-day camping ride along the Danube with
                                    >>???? > about 50-60 messengers from all over the world as we toured from
                                    >>???? > Vienna, Austria to Budapest, Hungary for an annual CMWC
                                    >>???? competition.
                                    >>???? > What I am saying is I am no stranger to camping by bike. J It is
                                    >>???? > great, so I would never put down that idea! Even though I moved from
                                    >>???? > NY to PA, I still do not have a driver's license and I ideally
                                    >>???? intend
                                    >>???? > to buy the Surly Big Dummy so my wife and I both have cargo bikes.
                                    >>???? > There are actually a few state parks within 50-100 miles, and
                                    >>???? there is
                                    >>???? > Dutch Amish country I would really like to tour. Later down the
                                    >>???? road
                                    >>???? > if/when I have the funds, I would also really like to buy two 20"
                                    >>???? > wheeled folding bikes and set them up the way I want them. That
                                    >>???? way my
                                    >>???? > wife and I can more conveniently travel somewhere distant (like
                                    >>???? > Portugal where my parents are from as an example) and use only our
                                    >>???? > bikes to get around. Using the Xtracycle-equipped bike for that sort
                                    >>???? > of thing is just not as practical, unless I was to cycle around the
                                    >>???? > entire world, but reality demands I keep a stable job rather than
                                    >>???? > engage in long-term touring. <sigh>
                                    >>???? >
                                    >>???? > Ride safe,
                                    >>???? >
                                    >>???? > _/TONE/_
                                    >>???? >
                                    >>???? >
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>???? You're getting this message because you signed up to be an
                                    >>???? Xtracycle roots radical.
                                    >>
                                    >>???? To Post a message, send it
                                    >>???? to:??????????rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
                                    >>???? <mailto: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>???? ride to believe.
                                    >>???? Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>???????? (Yahoo! ID required)
                                    >>
                                    >>???????? mailto: rootsradicals-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
                                    >>???? <mailto:rootsradicals-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> --
                                    >> Putting the fun in dysfunctional for over 50 years!
                                    >>
                                    >>
                                    >> Mark??Garvey
                                    >> Cedar Rapids, Iowa free state!
                                    >>
                                    >> Check out the web site at:
                                    >> http://www.vine-ave.com <http://www.vine-ave.com>
                                    >>
                                    >> contact us to have INVISIBLE INC! appear at your next
                                    >> program!??Details at www.vine-ave.com <http://www.vine-ave.com>
                                    >>
                                    >> I am a bicycling lifestylist!
                                    >>
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >You're getting this message because you signed up to be an Xtracycle roots radical.
                                    >
                                    >To Post a message, send it to:??????????rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >ride to believe.
                                    >Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >--
                                    >Putting the fun in dysfunctional for over 50 years!
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >Mark??Garvey
                                    >Cedar Rapids, Iowa free state!
                                    >
                                    >Check out the web site at:
                                    >http://www.vine-ave.com??
                                    >
                                    >contact us to have INVISIBLE INC! appear at your next program!??Details at www.vine-ave.com
                                    >
                                    >I am a bicycling lifestylist!
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >________________________________________________________________________
                                    >AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com.
                                    >
                                  • Tone
                                    Anne, The only way I would imagine you could haul those 28 tipi poles would probably be if you cut them in half. . Of course what you would have to do is also
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Jul 18, 2007
                                    • 0 Attachment

                                      Anne,

                                                  The only way I would imagine you could haul those 28’ tipi poles would probably be if you cut them in half. . Of course what you would have to do is also improvise some sort of extension coupler, which would connect two of the 14’ pole halves to form the full length 28’ tipi poles. I do not know how thick the poles are, but I would imagine if you got some sort of piping, perhaps 2’ lengths of metal or maybe even strong bamboo for each of the 14 poles, that might work.

                                                  In my own experience 12’ long planks and 2”x4”s are the longest objects I have carried on my Xtracycle, but I think a person could manage a 14’ long item or a bundle of them. As for the 70 lbs of tipi coverings, I would imagine that should not be a problem, but it might be a bit awkward. I once carried a high-quality artificial Xmas tree in its original box direct from the factory in Hoboken, NJ along with its 35 lb base. The Xmas tree weighed 60-65lbs itself. That boxed Xmas tree was pretty bulky and definitely a bit awkward, but I managed to get it back home all the way from Jersey, through Manhattan, and out to Brooklyn. The employees and one of the managers from the Xmas company in Jersey all came out to watch me load and ride off in astonishment while taking some pictures to put up on their wall. J

                                       

                                      Jeff Ong,

                                                  Welcome!

                                       

                                      Anne, Mark, Devian, or anyone else this applies to,

                                                  I have a special request to some of you on the Xtracycle list. I have been noticing some of you tend to utilize some sort of automatic quoting system when you reply to a message. This causes your response message to be unnecessarily long. When a number of list members have replied to a post and each of them has automatic quoting the resulting messages become super long, as in pages and pages in length. All I am personally asking is that people turn off their automatic quoting. When I feel the need to specifically reference something a person said earlier, I simply manually go back to that message and copy and paste what was said. All the extra needless quoting ends up adding bandwidth to message downloading and taking up more screen space. I hope I do not sound uptight about this or anything.

                                       

                                                  Ride safe everyone,

                                      _TONE_

                                       

                                       

                                    • Mark Garvey
                                      ... my apologies! mark Mark Garvey Cedar Rapids, Iowa free state! Check out the web site at: http://www.vine-ave.com contact us to have INVISIBLE INC! appear
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Jul 19, 2007
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                                        On 7/18/07, Tone <Tone@...> wrote:

                                          I have a special request to some of you on the Xtracycle list. I have been noticing some of you tend to utilize some sort of automatic quoting system when you reply to a message.


                                        _TONE_

                                         RATS!  guilty!  damn damn damn.....OK, a brief explanation!  I try, I really DO!  But i keep forgetting that the damned Gmail automatically quotes the entire message from whomever you are replying.  I will try to remember not to do this.  I miss my old system that simply made a reply and you had to manually quote the pertinent text!  this is the exact opposite!


                                        my apologies!

                                        mark



                                        Mark  Garvey
                                        Cedar Rapids, Iowa free state!

                                        Check out the web site at:
                                        http://www.vine-ave.com  

                                        contact us to have INVISIBLE INC! appear at your next program!  Details at www.vine-ave.com

                                        I am a bicycling lifestylist!
                                      • Anne Littlebird
                                        Unfortunately cutting and sleeving poles won t work. It creates a problem not only with stability but also with drips in the interior. But since that s the
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Jul 19, 2007
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                                          Unfortunately cutting and sleeving poles won't work. It creates a
                                          problem not only with stability but also with drips in the interior. But
                                          since that's the only thing that an Xtyracycle can not haul for me I'm
                                          still looking at going carless. Up until this last year I couldn't
                                          conceive of such since I was having to haul around a full sized harp.
                                          Since I'm not doing that anymore I can use the X to get the rest of my
                                          instruments where I need to go.

                                          I'm thinking that I'll try it for 6 months - take the car off the road,
                                          remove the plates etc and see if I can do it. Right now it's too easy to
                                          get lazy and take the car - like today when they are predicting severe
                                          storms by this afternoon on the commute home. I need to check with my
                                          insurance co too to see what my options are. Once you cancel your
                                          insurance it's hell to get it back.

                                          When I have to move the tipi I'll either have to find someone else in my
                                          area going the same way and ride with them or rent a truck with a square
                                          hitch for the back carrier that supports the length. It's not like i
                                          move them every weekend.

                                          Anne
                                        • David Chase
                                          ... How far do you move it, usually? I imagine you could recycle an old worn-out kids trailer, put one end of the poles on that (lashing trailer hitch to
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Jul 19, 2007
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                                            On 2007-07-19, at 7:25 AM, Anne Littlebird wrote:
                                            > When I have to move the tipi I'll either have to find someone else
                                            > in my
                                            > area going the same way and ride with them or rent a truck with a
                                            > square
                                            > hitch for the back carrier that supports the length. It's not like i
                                            > move them every weekend.
                                            How far do you move it, usually? I imagine you could recycle an old
                                            worn-out
                                            kids trailer, put one end of the poles on that (lashing trailer hitch
                                            to poles), attach
                                            the other to the X (in a way that allows the rear to swivel), and
                                            then you would
                                            be a Very Long Load.

                                            But that would be slow, and might even be dangerous. Certainly, in city
                                            traffic, you would confuse people in cars.

                                            David
                                          • jegarh@aol.com
                                            Anne said....... ... I built a 17 Cheyenne tipi in 1975 and have camped in it in Co. Az. Ok and Tx. My lodge pine poles are 24 and the set weighs a ton .
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Jul 19, 2007
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                                              Anne said.......
                                              > When I have to move the tipi I'll either have to find someone else  
                                              > in my
                                              > area going the same way and ride with them 



                                              I built a 17' Cheyenne tipi in 1975 and have camped in it in Co. Az. Ok and Tx.

                                              My lodge pine poles are 24' and the set weighs a "ton".



                                              You could rig up to move them one at a time. An extreme bike flag.


                                              Moving the 60# cover, the linings, floor covering, buffalo robes, parfleches and your scalp pole could be done in several trips with a small trailer. I love mine if I am going to be camped for at least a week. My wife makes me put it up and take it down. She won't do it and won't let me marry a couple of younger ladies to help her.




                                              Jerry (Standing Bare) Rhodes




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                                            • Cara Lin Bridgman
                                              I keep thinking about Anne s problem of how to haul 14 28-foot tipi poles on her xtracycle... Maybe there s an idea here:
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Oct 6, 2007
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                                                I keep thinking about Anne's problem of how to haul 14 28-foot tipi
                                                poles on her xtracycle...

                                                Maybe there's an idea here:
                                                <http://www.urbanvelo.org/issue3/urbanvelo3_p70-71.html>

                                                Or here (especially the 19th picture down):
                                                <http://aistigave.hit.bg/Logistics/>

                                                Or, more practically, here:
                                                <http://www.bikesatwork.com/>
                                                Which shows someone hauling a 24-foot extension ladder.

                                                CL

                                                issumatuq@... wrote:
                                                > I think I have found something I need to haul that the Xtracycle can't
                                                > manage - unless someone can figure this one out. I have 14 28' tipi
                                                > poles and of course the 70 pound covers. Since I have enough trouble
                                                > with car and the poles it's probably not working with the Xtracycle. So


                                                --

                                                Please note my new email address: caralinb@...
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                                                Cara Lin Bridgman

                                                P.O. Box 013 Phone: 886-4-2632-5484
                                                Longjing Sinjhuang
                                                Taichung County 434
                                                Taiwan http://megaview.com.tw/~caralin/
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