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Dummy business needs a math head!

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  • WT
    OK I m letting the cat out of the bag here, I ve been quiet about this until I was sure it was going to happen. I m very excited to announce that I m starting
    Message 1 of 18 , Sep 24, 2010
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      OK I'm letting the cat out of the bag here, I've been quiet about this until I was sure it was going to happen.

      I'm very excited to announce that I'm starting a new business focusing on cargo bikes. Specifically, I'll be pursuing commercial deliveries, promotional marketing (think mobile advertising but on a bike), and custom accessories (things that can be built and easily added onto a cargo bike to make them specific for a business). Of course as I go I'm trying to come up with compelling information for customer presentations. Some statistics I'd really like to come up with are the following:

      1. Approximately how many "obesity" pounds are there in the United States? If I can come up with that I could translate it into available bike miles possible just in excess fat (the calories people are willing to pay to get rid of).

      2. Is there a reliable approximate for how much extra money in health care the obesity epidemic is costing the US? The World?

      3. Cost of bike lanes per lane mile vs. car lanes per lane mile. Also any compelling statistics on the costs of roads for communities or a per person dollar amount.

      I know this is kind of a low paying gig to anyone who accepts but I promise to pass it on to the next person at the same rate! Also would love to talk to anyone else who is in this business, has been in it, or wants to be in it to discuss their findings/impressions.

      I would love to give my link as well but I'm going to wait until a moderator gives me the OK on that. (Until then you can friend me on facebook if you're interested)

      Thanks,
      Wesley Trout
      Lincoln, NE
    • Dave Lloyd
      Here s a graph of obesity in the world. It s got some figures that you could likely use to infer excess pounds and health care costs (based on percent of GDP
      Message 2 of 18 , Sep 24, 2010
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        Here's a graph of obesity in the world. It's got some figures that you could likely use to infer excess pounds and health care costs (based on percent of GDP spent on healthcare).

        http://www.economist.com/research/articlesBySubject/displaystory.cfm?subjectid=7933596&story_id=17118939

        --dlloyd



        On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 06:51, WT <watrout@...> wrote:
         

        OK I'm letting the cat out of the bag here, I've been quiet about this until I was sure it was going to happen.

        I'm very excited to announce that I'm starting a new business focusing on cargo bikes. Specifically, I'll be pursuing commercial deliveries, promotional marketing (think mobile advertising but on a bike), and custom accessories (things that can be built and easily added onto a cargo bike to make them specific for a business). Of course as I go I'm trying to come up with compelling information for customer presentations. Some statistics I'd really like to come up with are the following:

        1. Approximately how many "obesity" pounds are there in the United States? If I can come up with that I could translate it into available bike miles possible just in excess fat (the calories people are willing to pay to get rid of).

        2. Is there a reliable approximate for how much extra money in health care the obesity epidemic is costing the US? The World?

        3. Cost of bike lanes per lane mile vs. car lanes per lane mile. Also any compelling statistics on the costs of roads for communities or a per person dollar amount.

        I know this is kind of a low paying gig to anyone who accepts but I promise to pass it on to the next person at the same rate! Also would love to talk to anyone else who is in this business, has been in it, or wants to be in it to discuss their findings/impressions.

        I would love to give my link as well but I'm going to wait until a moderator gives me the OK on that. (Until then you can friend me on facebook if you're interested)

        Thanks,
        Wesley Trout
        Lincoln, NE


      • David Chase
        ... For marketing purposes you might do this, but as far as I can tell, biking does not consume that much fat. I lost 15 lbs, maybe, starting from 235. If I
        Message 3 of 18 , Sep 24, 2010
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          On 2010-09-24, at 7:51 AM, WT wrote:
          > 1. Approximately how many "obesity" pounds are there in the United States? If I can come up with that I could translate it into available bike miles possible just in excess fat (the calories people are willing to pay to get rid of).

          For marketing purposes you might do this, but as far as I can tell, biking does not consume that much fat. I lost 15 lbs, maybe, starting from 235. If I were the suffering sort (i.e., did not loathe dieting) there is probably room to lose another 30. I assume most people will end up in a similar situation.

          One way you can look at this is to use pound-of-butter calculations. Biking uses about 50 kcal (food calories) per mile. Butter provides about 3250 calories per pound
          (http://caloriecount.about.com/calories-butter-i1145, do math), or enough to travel 65 miles. That means, with three commutes to work this week (10 miles and change, one way), I burned about a pound of fat (butter is not 100% fat, neither is body fat. Olive oil is 4000 calories per pound, or 80 miles. So, the 15 lbs I lost, is the equivalent of 975 miles of cycling. You might not want to put it that way, because people imagine 975 miles on a bicycle and freak, even though I personally do more than twice that every year. A friendlier way to put it is, 3 miles per day, every day.

          > 2. Is there a reliable approximate for how much extra money in health care the obesity epidemic is costing the US? The World?

          The US costs are huge. The facts and factoids I know of:

          - it is 10-20 times risker to not-bike than it is to bike, because it is so unhealthy to be out of shape (Mayer Hillman, no internet reference, I tracked down the book that is the alleged source of the claim and I am not happy with how it is presented there).

          - the mortality rate for non-cycling commuters is 39% higher than it is for cycling commuters. This is from a Dutch study, and their accident rate is much lower than ours, but it is not zero. And our-non-cycling commuters are fatter than theirs.

          Here's the article: http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/160/11/1621
          Here's me trying to get a handle on "39%": http://dr2chase.wordpress.com/2010/08/30/trying-to-make-sense-of-mortality-rate-data/

          - Googling "medical cost of physical inactivity" just now found this:
          http://aspe.hhs.gov/health/reports/physicalactivity/
          Good figures on total costs, pointers to references that predict cost savings, e.g.:

          The same study estimated that increasing regular moderate physical activity among the more than 88 million inactive Americans over the age of 15 years might reduce the annual national direct medical costs by as much as $76.6 billion in 2000 dollars.(21)

          Workplace physical activity programs can reduce short-term sick leave by six to 32 percent, reduce health care costs by 20 to 55 percent, and increase productivity by 2 to 52 percent.(22)

          Those references are (and note that they are getting oldish, and reported in older dollars):

          21. Pratt M, Macera CA, Wang G. Higher direct medical costs associated with physical inactivity. The Physician and Sportsmedicine 28:63-70. 2000.

          22. U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. Physical activity and health: a report of the Surgeon General. Atlanta, GA: U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, National Center for Chronic Disease Prevention and Health Promotion, 1996.
          URL: http://www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/sgr/contents.htm

          - AND, this, from Australia, which estimates "17% of the cost of 7 big medical items" (not the same as all medical spending): http://www.medibank.com.au/Client/Documents/Pdfs/pyhsical_inactivity.pdf
          7 items are CHD, Stroke, Type 2 Diabetes, Breast Cancer, Colon Cancer, Depression, and Falls. Across the Australian population, 1.5billion AU$ = 1.4billion US$. Scaled by population, 307 vs 21.4 million = $20 billion -- except that we are already fatter (we are that much less active, apparently) and we also have higher per-capita health care costs (perhaps because we are already fatter, and we don't want to double-count that).

          So, there's a figure you can use: MORE THAN $20 billion dollars per year.
          And the calculation is, "Australian study says 1.5 billion AU$ = 1.4 billion US$ per year for them, 21.4 million of them, 307 million of us, scale up the costs to get $20 billion.

          I find the Dutch mortality numbers pretty startling. They are consistent with what I have seen everywhere else that I have looked, including for example a study of mortality in older Japanese men. The benefits go up as you get older, but if you didn't bike when you were young, you're unlikely to start from scratch at 50.

          > 3. Cost of bike lanes per lane mile vs. car lanes per lane mile. Also any compelling statistics on the costs of roads for communities or a per person dollar amount.

          I think you need to be careful here, because there's bike lanes and there's bike lanes. The claim I have read is that the Dutch spend about 30 Euros per year per person. But I don't think it is just bike lanes. People ride bikes to train stations, and use that for longer commutes. Making that work with cargo bikes is an interesting proposition, Devian G's experience with Amtrak notwithstanding. Lots of trains DON'T have roll-on roll-off access, and commuter rail likes to be in and out of stations, chop-chop.

          Dutch spending:
          http://hembrow.blogspot.com/2010/05/487-million-euros-for-cycling.html

          Good luck. Like all small businessmen, I fear that you are certifiable, but totally in a good way, and crazy people often succeed anyhow.

          David
        • David Chase
          Huh. You must have magical powers. Look what just showed up in my RSS feeds: http://rajpatel.org/2010/09/23/the-cost-of-obesity/ David
          Message 4 of 18 , Sep 24, 2010
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            Huh. You must have magical powers. Look what just showed up in my RSS feeds:

            http://rajpatel.org/2010/09/23/the-cost-of-obesity/

            David
          • Travers, Neil
            ... Yes, the standard fact appears to be that Cycling is the most efficient (land?) transport. If you are persuading people to do an exercise regime to burn
            Message 5 of 18 , Sep 24, 2010
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              > biking does not consume that much fat

              Yes, the standard fact appears to be that Cycling is the most efficient
              (land?) transport.
              If you are persuading people to do an exercise regime to burn fat - that
              could be a bad thing, they have to do more.
              If you are persuading people to swap car journeys for cycling, that's a
              good thing as they will be able to get further.




              -----Original Message-----
              From: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
              [mailto:rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Chase
              Sent: 24 September 2010 14:41
              To: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [rootsradicals] Dummy business needs a math head!



              On 2010-09-24, at 7:51 AM, WT wrote:
              > 1. Approximately how many "obesity" pounds are there in the United
              > States? If I can come up with that I could translate it into available

              > bike miles possible just in excess fat (the calories people are
              > willing to pay to get rid of).

              For marketing purposes you might do this, but as far as I can tell,
              biking does not consume that much fat. I lost 15 lbs, maybe, starting
              from 235. If I were the suffering sort (i.e., did not loathe dieting)
              there is probably room to lose another 30. I assume most people will
              end up in a similar situation.

              One way you can look at this is to use pound-of-butter calculations.
              Biking uses about 50 kcal (food calories) per mile. Butter provides
              about 3250 calories per pound
              (http://caloriecount.about.com/calories-butter-i1145, do math), or
              enough to travel 65 miles. That means, with three commutes to work this
              week (10 miles and change, one way), I burned about a pound of fat
              (butter is not 100% fat, neither is body fat. Olive oil is 4000
              calories per pound, or 80 miles. So, the 15 lbs I lost, is the
              equivalent of 975 miles of cycling. You might not want to put it that
              way, because people imagine 975 miles on a bicycle and freak, even
              though I personally do more than twice that every year. A friendlier
              way to put it is, 3 miles per day, every day.

              > 2. Is there a reliable approximate for how much extra money in health
              > care the obesity epidemic is costing the US? The World?

              The US costs are huge. The facts and factoids I know of:

              - it is 10-20 times risker to not-bike than it is to bike, because it is
              so unhealthy to be out of shape (Mayer Hillman, no internet reference, I
              tracked down the book that is the alleged source of the claim and I am
              not happy with how it is presented there).

              - the mortality rate for non-cycling commuters is 39% higher than it is
              for cycling commuters. This is from a Dutch study, and their accident
              rate is much lower than ours, but it is not zero. And our-non-cycling
              commuters are fatter than theirs.

              Here's the article:
              http://archinte.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/full/160/11/1621
              Here's me trying to get a handle on "39%":
              http://dr2chase.wordpress.com/2010/08/30/trying-to-make-sense-of-mortali
              ty-rate-data/

              - Googling "medical cost of physical inactivity" just now found this:
              http://aspe.hhs.gov/health/reports/physicalactivity/
              Good figures on total costs, pointers to references that predict cost
              savings, e.g.:

              The same study estimated that increasing regular moderate physical
              activity among the more than 88 million inactive Americans over the age
              of 15 years might reduce the annual national direct medical costs by as
              much as $76.6 billion in 2000 dollars.(21)

              Workplace physical activity programs can reduce short-term sick leave by
              six to 32 percent, reduce health care costs by 20 to 55 percent, and
              increase productivity by 2 to 52 percent.(22)

              Those references are (and note that they are getting oldish, and
              reported in older dollars):

              21. Pratt M, Macera CA, Wang G. Higher direct medical costs associated
              with physical inactivity. The Physician and Sportsmedicine 28:63-70.
              2000.

              22. U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. Physical activity and
              health: a report of the Surgeon General. Atlanta, GA: U.S. Department of
              Health and Human Services, Centers for Disease Control and Prevention,
              National Center for Chronic Disease Prevention and Health Promotion,
              1996.
              URL: http://www.cdc.gov/nccdphp/sgr/contents.htm

              - AND, this, from Australia, which estimates "17% of the cost of 7 big
              medical items" (not the same as all medical spending):
              http://www.medibank.com.au/Client/Documents/Pdfs/pyhsical_inactivity.pdf
              7 items are CHD, Stroke, Type 2 Diabetes, Breast Cancer, Colon Cancer,
              Depression, and Falls. Across the Australian population, 1.5billion AU$
              = 1.4billion US$. Scaled by population, 307 vs 21.4 million = $20
              billion -- except that we are already fatter (we are that much less
              active, apparently) and we also have higher per-capita health care costs
              (perhaps because we are already fatter, and we don't want to
              double-count that).

              So, there's a figure you can use: MORE THAN $20 billion dollars per
              year. And the calculation is, "Australian study says 1.5 billion AU$ =
              1.4 billion US$ per year for them, 21.4 million of them, 307 million of
              us, scale up the costs to get $20 billion.

              I find the Dutch mortality numbers pretty startling. They are
              consistent with what I have seen everywhere else that I have looked,
              including for example a study of mortality in older Japanese men. The
              benefits go up as you get older, but if you didn't bike when you were
              young, you're unlikely to start from scratch at 50.

              > 3. Cost of bike lanes per lane mile vs. car lanes per lane mile. Also
              > any compelling statistics on the costs of roads for communities or a
              > per person dollar amount.

              I think you need to be careful here, because there's bike lanes and
              there's bike lanes. The claim I have read is that the Dutch spend about
              30 Euros per year per person. But I don't think it is just bike lanes.
              People ride bikes to train stations, and use that for longer commutes.
              Making that work with cargo bikes is an interesting proposition, Devian
              G's experience with Amtrak notwithstanding. Lots of trains DON'T have
              roll-on roll-off access, and commuter rail likes to be in and out of
              stations, chop-chop.

              Dutch spending:
              http://hembrow.blogspot.com/2010/05/487-million-euros-for-cycling.html

              Good luck. Like all small businessmen, I fear that you are certifiable,
              but totally in a good way, and crazy people often succeed anyhow.

              David



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            • Liam Casey
              ... I don t know what bike was used to come up with that, but I think it goes without saying that a typical cargo biker burns a lot more than this. Now to go
              Message 6 of 18 , Sep 24, 2010
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                On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 6:41 AM, David Chase <dr2chase@...> wrote:
                One way you can look at this is to use pound-of-butter calculations. Biking uses about 50 kcal (food calories) per mile. 

                I don't know what bike was used to come up with that, but I think it goes without saying that a typical cargo biker burns a lot more than this.

                Now to go pick some more nits...

                Liam
              • Evan Lewis
                Wesley, I m new to the group (in fact this is my first post) as well as being new to cargo cycling having recently purchased a 2010 Kona Ute as well as a 2010
                Message 7 of 18 , Sep 24, 2010
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                  Wesley,

                  I'm new to the group (in fact this is my first post) as well as being new to cargo cycling having recently purchased a 2010 Kona Ute as well as a 2010 Surly Big Dummy (both of which I love dearly for slightly different reasons). But I've been a businessman and entrepreneur for my entire career.

                  For what it's worth, while the obesity stats are interesting on a personal level if I were considering using a bike rather than a car for errands, taking my kids to school, etc., from a business standpoint, I would be much more engaged if you could tell me things like:

                  - how much I'll save on gas
                  - if there are federal subsidies I/my business can capture by using a cargo bike vs. a van/car/etc.
                  - will the people to whom I'm delivering my product engage more with my company because I'm using cargo bikes over a competitor that uses vans/cars/etc.
                  - will my health care provider lower my rates if my employees are healthier as a result of using bikes

                  In brief, if you are targeting businesses with your product(s), focus on the business benefits. Like it or not, that frequently comes down to saving money and/or increasing operational efficiencies. Throw in some of the obesity stats as/if necessary but I would not make that the focus of your customer presentations (assuming that I understand the audience to whom you're pitching).

                  Best regards and good luck!
                  Evan Lewis
                • David Chase
                  ... PS -- what destroys roads, at least initially, is truck traffic. Incremental damage to an intact road (not one filled with cracks and potholes) is
                  Message 8 of 18 , Sep 24, 2010
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                    > > 3. Cost of bike lanes per lane mile vs. car lanes per lane mile. Also any compelling statistics on the costs of roads for communities or a per person dollar amount.

                    PS -- what destroys roads, at least initially, is truck traffic. Incremental damage to an intact road (not one filled with cracks and potholes) is supposed to be proportional to the 3rd or 4th power of the wheel weight (with some handwaving for very large and very small tire footprints). Generally, a 10-ton truck, does at least 1000 times the damage of a 1 ton car, perhaps 10000 times.

                    What destroys bike lanes is tree roots, if they aren't made sturdy enough initially (this is happening to parts of the Minuteman Trail near Boston).
                  • Steve Lange
                    ... It Depends Those questions are broad, and so contingent upon the specifics of the individual/organization/business being considered, that it s going to
                    Message 9 of 18 , Sep 24, 2010
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                      On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 8:21 AM, Evan Lewis <evanlewis1@...> wrote:

                      For what it's worth, while the obesity stats are interesting on a personal level if I were considering using a bike rather than a car for errands, taking my kids to school, etc., from a business standpoint, I would be much more engaged if you could tell me things like:

                      - how much I'll save on gas
                      - if there are federal subsidies I/my business can capture by using a cargo bike vs. a van/car/etc.
                      - will the people to whom I'm delivering my product engage more with my company because I'm using cargo bikes over a competitor that uses vans/cars/etc.
                      - will my health care provider lower my rates if my employees are healthier as a result of using bikes

                      "It Depends"

                      Those questions are broad, and so contingent upon the specifics of the individual/organization/business being considered, that it's going to be very difficult, if not impossible, to distill the benefits down to an easily digestible executive summary applicable to all possible businesses... ;-)

                      The gas savings question totally depends on the nature and duration of the trips you're considering replacing with bikes. Remember to include savings for maintenance, insurance, licensing, parking and similar in your calculations. Also consider the influence of depreciation (from a tax perspective) if the cars/trucks/whatever you'll be replacing are owned instead of leased.

                      I know there's a commuter benefits tax credit that businesses can apply for if they provide cash or services as a fringe benefit to their employees who bike commute.

                      Hopefully you know better than anyone else how your target market and demographic will respond to bicycles instead of motorized vehicles. If you're proposing an airport shuttle, then you're probably putting yourself at a disadvantage. On the other hand, if you're proposing a grocery delivery service in a small to midsize city, then it will probably be perceived positively. But really, you're better placed than anyone to make that determination.

                      Same goes for your health care provider... and with all the changes afoot in that industry, who can say. My personal belief is that, if they can find a way to screw you over, they will, and I don't expect them to lower rates for anybody any time soon. But I may just be cynical with respect to that industry.

                      Steve Lange
                      Santa Barbara, CA

                    • Evan Lewis
                      All good points Steve. But I would reiterate that from a business standpoint, if I ve been asked to listen to a pitch about switching/choosing between a few/a
                      Message 10 of 18 , Sep 24, 2010
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                        All good points Steve. 

                        But I would reiterate that from a business standpoint, if I've been asked to listen to a pitch about switching/choosing between a few/a fleet of motorized vehicles and cargo bikes, a presentation that essentially says "it depends" is not compelling to me as a business owner and may actually feel like a waste of time. 

                        In fact, if the presentation raises more difficult questions and no answers, then I would bet that there are many other more pressing issues/concerns that would occupy my time and the cargo bike presentation that said, "it depends" falls out of the proverbial bed.

                        Instead, I would offer up calculations and possible answers even if the universe's most definitive answer isn't available. Whether you're pitching cargo bikes or staplers or new computers, the reasons for choosing one over another need to be clearly and cogently communicated. The closing slide can't be "good luck figuring out the specifics for your business". 

                        Instead, a good presentation will arm the possible buyer with the information and statistics they need to (hopefully) make the decision that cargo bikes are the better way to go.

                        Best regards,
                        Evan
                      • WT
                        I just wanted to first say thanks to everyone for the responses. I m sorry I haven t been interacting more, it s just going to be hard for me to be at the
                        Message 11 of 18 , Sep 24, 2010
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                          I just wanted to first say thanks to everyone for the responses. I'm sorry I haven't been interacting more, it's just going to be hard for me to be at the computer much today (maybe I should have waited to post this when I knew I could be around more). Anyway, just a quick note about the obesity stats - it's definitely NOT a cornerstone of my pitch, I just thought it would be interesting to see, if we truly are thinking about overall energy usage in this country and we switched to cargo bikes (where it makes sense and cents to do so) how long could we run that transportation method just on the excess fat that is in this country?
                        • Steve Lange
                          Hi Evan- I owe you an apology - I ve only just now realized you were replying to Wesley s post - I was under the mistaken impression you were this thread s
                          Message 12 of 18 , Sep 24, 2010
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                            Hi Evan-

                            I owe you an apology - I've only just now realized you were replying to Wesley's post - I was under the mistaken impression you were this thread's starter, and he (Wesley) was replying to you. D'oh!

                            Your initial comments now make quite a bit more sense, and my responses are not particularly helpful at all - as you rightly note. Those things all do depend on the specific case, but in my carelessness I failed to realize that a specific case was, in fact, being discussed.

                            My apologies! I'd blame Gmail's peculiar approach to threaded messages, but really that's just passing the buck. Sorry.

                            Steve


                            On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 9:57 AM, Evan Lewis <evanlewis1@...> wrote:


                            All good points Steve. 

                            But I would reiterate that from a business standpoint, if I've been asked to listen to a pitch about switching/choosing between a few/a fleet of motorized vehicles and cargo bikes, a presentation that essentially says "it depends" is not compelling to me as a business owner and may actually feel like a waste of time. 

                            In fact, if the presentation raises more difficult questions and no answers, then I would bet that there are many other more pressing issues/concerns that would occupy my time and the cargo bike presentation that said, "it depends" falls out of the proverbial bed.

                            Instead, I would offer up calculations and possible answers even if the universe's most definitive answer isn't available. Whether you're pitching cargo bikes or staplers or new computers, the reasons for choosing one over another need to be clearly and cogently communicated. The closing slide can't be "good luck figuring out the specifics for your business". 

                            Instead, a good presentation will arm the possible buyer with the information and statistics they need to (hopefully) make the decision that cargo bikes are the better way to go.

                            Best regards,
                            Evan



                          • WT
                            Thanks again to everyone for your input. I m still very busy trying to get the details ironed out with my new business venture but I thought I d take a break
                            Message 13 of 18 , Oct 3, 2010
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                              Thanks again to everyone for your input. I'm still very busy trying to get the details ironed out with my new business venture but I thought I'd take a break to post a link to one of my first (commercial) custom mod tests.
                              Pictures are here:
                              http://www.flickr.com/photos/31290700@N06/sets/72157625086403468/

                              If you get really bored I also posted a video. This is not a snazzy production type video - just documenting the trip...you've been warned!

                              http://vimeo.com/15501623

                              Wes
                            • Fearghas McKay
                              ... You might want to look at http://www.carryfreedom.com/bamboo.html for plans for easy to build trailers that will improve your load carry over the kid
                              Message 14 of 18 , Oct 3, 2010
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                                On 3 Oct 2010, at 17:31, WT wrote:

                                > Thanks again to everyone for your input. I'm still very busy trying to get the details ironed out with my new business venture but I thought I'd take a break to post a link to one of my first (commercial) custom mod tests.

                                You might want to look at http://www.carryfreedom.com/bamboo.html for plans for easy to build trailers that will improve your load carry over the kid trailer.

                                Nick makes the designs free if you tell him what you want to do with it, so he can use the info for market research. A group of 10 of us built 10 in two evenings in Edinburgh earlier in the summer, not pretty but they carry lots and were not expensive as they were made out of CLS and a couple bits of metal plus two wheels. http://www.flickr.com/photos/greenerleith/sets/72157624247844624/

                                Good luck with the launch!

                                HTH

                                f
                              • WT
                                Thanks Fearghas, I m hoping to function without the trailer, that s one of the main reasons I made the additional rack. Although, I think certain loads would
                                Message 15 of 18 , Oct 3, 2010
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                                  Thanks Fearghas,

                                  I'm hoping to function without the trailer, that's one of the main reasons I made the additional rack. Although, I think certain loads would still allow for a trailer also and I wasn't very impressed with the kid trailer as a load hauler so the bamboo trailer could be an option. More over, if I learn how to work with bamboo that might be a good way for me to prototype future add-ons!

                                  --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, Fearghas McKay <fm-lists@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > On 3 Oct 2010, at 17:31, WT wrote:
                                  >
                                  > > Thanks again to everyone for your input. I'm still very busy trying to get the details ironed out with my new business venture but I thought I'd take a break to post a link to one of my first (commercial) custom mod tests.
                                  >
                                  > You might want to look at http://www.carryfreedom.com/bamboo.html for plans for easy to build trailers that will improve your load carry over the kid trailer.
                                  >
                                  > Nick makes the designs free if you tell him what you want to do with it, so he can use the info for market research. A group of 10 of us built 10 in two evenings in Edinburgh earlier in the summer, not pretty but they carry lots and were not expensive as they were made out of CLS and a couple bits of metal plus two wheels. http://www.flickr.com/photos/greenerleith/sets/72157624247844624/
                                  >
                                  > Good luck with the launch!
                                  >
                                  > HTH
                                  >
                                  > f
                                  >
                                • Fearghas McKay
                                  ... The Bamboo part is merely a concept ie you could build it out of bamboo but the design will work for CLS, aluminium section, polypipe, metal conduit, or
                                  Message 16 of 18 , Oct 3, 2010
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                                    On 3 Oct 2010, at 21:31, WT wrote:

                                    > I'm hoping to function without the trailer, that's one of the main reasons I made the additional rack. Although, I think certain loads would still allow for a trailer also and I wasn't very impressed with the kid trailer as a load hauler so the bamboo trailer could be an option. More over, if I learn how to work with bamboo that might be a good way for me to prototype future add-ons!

                                    The Bamboo part is merely a concept ie you could build it out of bamboo but the design will work for CLS, aluminium section, polypipe, metal conduit, or most rigid materials. It gives you a design that you can attach using materials to hand - so your return on capital can be maximised! Although Nick does build really rather nice trailers for sale, margin is king in business :-)

                                    f

                                    PS and of course Cash is Emperor :-)
                                  • oohrrah
                                    I removed all of the fabric from my kid trailer & put down a plywood floor. The trailer is a lot more useful for cargo. GT
                                    Message 17 of 18 , Oct 4, 2010
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                                      I removed all of the fabric from my kid trailer & put down a plywood floor. The trailer is a lot more useful for cargo. GT http://i126.photobucket.com/albums/p117/ghtownsend/Bicycles/Bicycle015.jpg

                                      --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "WT" <watrout@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > Thanks Fearghas,
                                      >
                                      > I'm hoping to function without the trailer, that's one of the main reasons I made the additional rack. Although, I think certain loads would still allow for a trailer also and I wasn't very impressed with the kid trailer as a load hauler so the bamboo trailer could be an option. More over, if I learn how to work with bamboo that might be a good way for me to prototype future add-ons!
                                      >
                                      > --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, Fearghas McKay <fm-lists@> wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > On 3 Oct 2010, at 17:31, WT wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > > Thanks again to everyone for your input. I'm still very busy trying to get the details ironed out with my new business venture but I thought I'd take a break to post a link to one of my first (commercial) custom mod tests.
                                      > >
                                      > > You might want to look at http://www.carryfreedom.com/bamboo.html for plans for easy to build trailers that will improve your load carry over the kid trailer.
                                      > >
                                      > > Nick makes the designs free if you tell him what you want to do with it, so he can use the info for market research. A group of 10 of us built 10 in two evenings in Edinburgh earlier in the summer, not pretty but they carry lots and were not expensive as they were made out of CLS and a couple bits of metal plus two wheels. http://www.flickr.com/photos/greenerleith/sets/72157624247844624/
                                      > >
                                      > > Good luck with the launch!
                                      > >
                                      > > HTH
                                      > >
                                      > > f
                                      > >
                                      >
                                    • John Wilde
                                      I was thinking about doing the same with my Burley Flat bed cargo trailer. I wasn t planning on getting rid of the fabric part of the trailer as much as I was
                                      Message 18 of 18 , Oct 4, 2010
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                                        I was thinking about doing the same with my Burley Flat bed cargo trailer.  I wasn't planning on getting rid of the fabric part of the trailer as much as I was thinking of making a plywood base to use with the Burley. 
                                        Blessings,
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