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Re: [rootsradicals] Bungees vs Cam Straps and Rope

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  • Steve Lange
    Another vote for camstraps. I have 2-3 that I carry in one of the inside black hole pockets at all times, along with my reusable grocery bags and a bungee or
    Message 1 of 14 , Aug 5, 2010
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      Another vote for camstraps. I have 2-3 that I carry in one of the inside "black hole" pockets at all times, along with my reusable grocery bags and a bungee or two.  Bungees have their place, but the camstraps are the go-to solution for almost everything.

      Steve Lange
      Santa Barbara, CA


      On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 12:17 PM, jj <jj@...> wrote:


      I use camstraps. I have 2 12footers installed underneath the snapdeck. I have used rope in the past as well, and it works fine. I carry cording and some velcro to secure LONG things to the bike. the cording is in one of these: http://prostores2.carrierzone.com/servlet/viewtainercom/Detail?no=1 and is in the pocket. the velcro is the double sided stuff that is used in telecom to secure cords: http://www.harborfreight.com/3-4-quarter-inch-x-35-ft-roll-hook-and-loop-cable-strap-96215.html I keep long chunks of that rolled up on the freeloader frames in a few spots. This is also how I secure blinkies to the back of the x frame.

      Bungies have a very specific use and that is to hold things IN: in baskets, in truck beds, in bins. Bungies do ahorrible job of securing one item to another, due to their elasticity.  so that garbage bag of clothing that we took to goodwill on monday? It was put into a box, then camstrapped to the snapdeck and the bungie net over the top of the box to keep things from hopping out.

      JJ




      On 10-08-05 10:36 AM, jenstheblackdane wrote:
       

      Is there a bias in the the Roots Rads community against Bungees?
      And if so, why?

      No judgement either way!

      Securing a load on any vehicle is an art form - even more so on a bike.

      I'd love to hear some of our Roots Rads "Artists" discuss their preferred "mediums" (bungee, rope, straps, dental floss, etc.) and how/why they came settle on them.




    • ama3655@aol.com
      I also use cam straps. I keep 6 on the bike at all times. I have a few more available for unusual loads if needed. 550 cord takes care of other stuff, it has
      Message 2 of 14 , Aug 5, 2010
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        I also use cam straps. I keep 6 on the bike at all times. I have a few more available for unusual loads if needed. 550 cord takes care of other stuff, it has to be pretty weird to need the 550 cord. Never lost a load yet, knock wood.
        I have used bungees to strap light loads to the front rack, but avoid them whenever possible. The springy hook thing scares me.
        FatRob
      • Rick Pickett
        cam straps only, did the bungees when I was afflicted with short bikeitis. I keep two on my Big Dummy. They are always attached, front and aft of the v-racks.
        Message 3 of 14 , Aug 5, 2010
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          cam straps only, did the bungees when I was afflicted with short bikeitis.

          I keep two on my Big Dummy. They are always attached, front and aft of the v-racks. The cam sides are on my drive side and hang down inside my freeloaders, the strap ends are on the non drive side and tied together in the not that unravels when you pull on the loose end. Allows me to form an X on top of whatever cargo I have.


          "Melancholy is incompatible with bicycling."  – James E. Starrs

          artistic shenaniganizer | rick@...
          888.537-1401 | every day adventure






          On Aug 5, 2010, at 4:34 PM, ama3655@... wrote:

           

          I also use cam straps. I keep 6 on the bike at all times. I have a few more available for unusual loads if needed. 550 cord takes care of other stuff, it has to be pretty weird to need the 550 cord. Never lost a load yet, knock wood.
          I have used bungees to strap light loads to the front rack, but avoid them whenever possible. The springy hook thing scares me.
          FatRob


        • Pete B
          Definitely a bias against bungee cords by me. Hooks and rotating masses have a gravitational attractiveness that doubles with speed ;-) My preference is for
          Message 4 of 14 , Aug 5, 2010
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            Definitely a bias against bungee cords by me.

            Hooks and rotating masses have a gravitational attractiveness that doubles with speed ;-)

            My preference is for cam straps and the occasional ratchet tie-down.

            I have seen Joel (from Human Powered Cycles) do amazing load tiedowns (and temp construction) with old inner tubes.
            but I do like the neatness of straps.
             
            Pete.B
            'Newspapers are unable, seemingly, to discriminate between a bicycle accident and the collapse of civilization' : George Bernard Shaw


            On 6 August 2010 03:36, jenstheblackdane <public@...> wrote:
             

            Is there a bias in the the Roots Rads community against Bungees?
            And if so, why?

            No judgement either way!

            Securing a load on any vehicle is an art form - even more so on a bike.

            I'd love to hear some of our Roots Rads "Artists" discuss their preferred "mediums" (bungee, rope, straps, dental floss, etc.) and how/why they came settle on them.


          • phaedrus at yahoo
            I really like Rok Straps - the ones using loops rather than hooks. They saved my backside on a motorcycle trip when I rolled in the middle of nowhere ripping a
            Message 5 of 14 , Aug 6, 2010
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              I really like Rok Straps - the ones using loops rather than hooks.

              They saved my backside on a motorcycle trip when I rolled in the
              middle of nowhere ripping a bunch of stuff off my bike.  My buddy had
              a bunch of them and was more or less able to temporarily strap my
              motorcycle together with them long enough to get us the 50 miles or so
              to civilization.

              I got a bunch of varying sizes and use them regularly on the cargo
              bike and trailer.
              Basically, they're a webbing strap with a loop at each end to connect
              to your vehicle like xtracycle's cam straps do.   They connect
              together with a standard nylon buckle.  What makes them different is
              while the one side has the standard nylon buckle/webbing strap length
              adjustment, the other side is a flat bungee like material.  The idea
              is you don't stretch them ridiculously like people do with bungee
              cords - you adjust the strap length so that you're putting a 25% or so
              stretch on the bungee portion and then that bit of stretch adds
              tension to keep your load secure. They also don't have the pirate eye
              making hooks. We did learn the hard way if your straps aren't long
              enough and you DO over stretch the bungee, be very very careful when
              releasing the tension as the long end can come around with quite some
              speed. A nylon buckle to the nads at high velocity may not cause
              serious injury, but its not pleasant. I've since solved that problem
              by not over stretching them.

              They're a bit pricey for a job that can pretty much be replicated with
              inner tubes and rope, but if you've got them, they're great.

              I've been trying to convince my LBS to carry them.  I'd bet xtracycle
              branded ones would sell as well ;)

              http://www.rokstraps.com/products/products.html

              If you scroll down a bit, I use the cruiser, the motorcycle, and the pack adj.

              - phaedrus


              On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 7:40 PM, Pete B <nackterman@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > Definitely a bias against bungee cords by me.
              >
              > Hooks and rotating masses have a gravitational attractiveness that doubles with speed ;-)
              > My preference is for cam straps and the occasional ratchet tie-down.
              > I have seen Joel (from Human Powered Cycles) do amazing load tiedowns (and temp construction) with old inner tubes.
              > but I do like the neatness of straps.
              >
              > Pete.B
              > 'Newspapers are unable, seemingly, to discriminate between a bicycle accident and the collapse of civilization' : George Bernard Shaw
              >
              >
              > On 6 August 2010 03:36, jenstheblackdane <public@...> wrote:
              >>
              >>
              >>
              >> Is there a bias in the the Roots Rads community against Bungees?
              >> And if so, why?
              >>
              >> No judgement either way!
              >>
              >> Securing a load on any vehicle is an art form - even more so on a bike.
              >>
              >> I'd love to hear some of our Roots Rads "Artists" discuss their preferred "mediums" (bungee, rope, straps, dental floss, etc.) and how/why they came settle on them.
              >>
              >
              >
            • Tone
              I never use Bungee cords. They are dangerous. An X-girlfriend of mine was a messenger in San Francisco. She had a rear rack for touring and had an incident
              Message 6 of 14 , Aug 6, 2010
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                I never use Bungee cords. They are dangerous. An X-girlfriend of mine was
                a messenger in San Francisco. She had a rear rack for touring and had an
                incident with a bungee cord breaking. The hook caught her face within an
                inch of her eye and fortunately only left her a permanent scar. After
                that she only used inner tubes.

                When I was messengering in NY with my Xtracycle I decided not to use
                inner tubes though. Instead, I obviously used the triple-snapping system
                of the Freeloaders as much as possible. Never forget they can all clip
                across the top of the snap deck and interconnect with each other to form
                an X, etc. If you only need to load something on one side, which was
                usually the case for me, connecting the straps across the decks give you
                lots of length due to the straps from the other side.
                Of course strapping larger loads of cargo to both sides generally
                involves something beyond the Freeloader straps. That is when I pull out
                double-sided Velcro straps. Sometimes it is referred to as on-wrap
                hook-n-loop strapping. JJ mentioned the ¾” one-wrap and included a link
                for it. $8 for 35’ of the stuff sounds like a decent deal. However, I did
                not use ¾” one-wrap Velcro. I would think the connection for that stuff
                might not be strong enough in certain circumstances. Instead I opted for
                2” wide industrial-strength Velcro. The industrial-strength style of
                Velcro has flatter more dense hooks, which do not feel so scratchy. The
                flat hooks are less likely to be crushed and loose grip over time, and of
                course having an extra 1.25” of gripping surface helps even more.
                I started using 2” double-sided Velcro because I bought a 25’ roll of 2”
                wide sticky-backed Velcro from Costco or Home Depot so I could use the
                stuff for various projects. When I had some excess lengths I decided to
                simply stick the hook and loop sides back-to-back to make one-wrap style
                strapping. That is when I realized the potential for tying down loads on
                my Xtracycle. I made and cut about eight 30” lengths and keep them in my
                Freeloaders. They make excellent and versatile strapping. On rare
                occasions when loading especially bulky double-sided loads, I would
                include 550 parachute cords as a complement to the Velcro.

                By the way, if you are the type of cyclist, who uses ankle cuffs to keep
                your pants from snagging in your chain, that one-wrap Velcro is great
                too. I keep three lengths of ¾” or 1” one-wrap Velcro with me whenever I
                am cycling. The one-wrap is convenient enough to stash almost anywhere,
                but because I almost never go anywhere on my bike without my messenger
                bag I always simply stick the one-wrap to the bag’s existing Velcro
                closures and the one-wrap still allows it to function normally. In fact I
                actually cut the thinner one-wrap straps to the exact length of the
                Velcro closures on my messenger bag so everything fits and looks good.
                ¾ or 1” one-wrap is also great in a pinch if you have a minor accident
                and need to bandage something like a bloody knee/elbow scrape. I would
                just detach the one-wrap from my mess-bag and use two straps to secure a
                bandana above and below my knee. For your information, I also keep at
                least two bandanas in my mess bag too, at least one for bandaging
                emergencies, which is stored in a “clean pocket”, and another in a
                separate pocket for freshening up or wiping grease/dirt after road
                repairs. Bandanas also come in handy for other needs while
                camping/touring on your bike.

                Usually around Xmas my wife or sister gets me something from Xtracycle.
                Last year my sister got me the Eco-deck and three Utility Belts. The
                utility belts really make it easier to strap down most cargo I might have
                since they can conveniently attach and extend the FreeLoader straps or be
                used independently. I still carry the 2” one-wrap Velcro straps, but
                rarely need to use them. I have been using the Velcro for several years
                now and it has definitely shown wear. Even though it has that industrial
                flat hook surface, it still works and I continue to use it when
                necessary. Apart from a little functionality degradation due to the
                flattening hooks, the Velcro does look a little worn after so many years.
                The flatter industrial hooks are much less likely to snag hair and lint,
                etc. than standard Velcro, but several years is a long time to use a
                strapping system outdoors. Also, they look even rattier because I did not
                buy one-wrap specific strapping, but instead made my own by adhering two
                sides of sticky-backed Velcro together. Now my self-made “one-wrap” kind
                of peels up on the ends/edges a little, so the adhesive does not really
                work in the expose spots.
                If I had to do it all over again I would instead buy a big roll of 2”
                wide industrial-hook style one-wrap, then cut a dozen lengths to about
                30”. That way the ends and edges would not peel up. While working on some
                other projects involving colored Velcro my research discovered a few
                Velcro suppliers, which sold one-wrap strapping:

                http://www.hookandloop.com
                (Has the most information)

                http://feinersupply.com

                http://www.levittextiles.com

                http://www.textol.com

                Keep in mind one-wrap is usually not sold with the industrial hook style
                on one-side via the automated web site system because the industrial
                Velcro generally comes in sew-on or sticky-back forms. You may have to
                e-mail to inquire specifically about industrial one-wrap, but I think you
                can still get it. Some of these suppliers also have hook-n-loop strapping
                in different materials. I think it normally comes in nylon, but you can
                get polyester-based hook-n-loop straps, which resist chemicals and UV
                light and supposedly maintain strength a little better in the rain. Also,
                if you intend to get adhesive-backed Velcro for a project/use other than
                tie-down straps, then pay attention to what kind of adhesive is on the
                back of the strap. You can get sticky-backed hook-n-loop straps/rolls
                with either an acrylic or rubber based adhesive, so you should determine
                what surfaces you intend to stick the sticky-backed Velcro on before
                purchasing.

                By the way, when I stash my “one-wrap” straps I usually fold one into a
                U-shape with the loop side out, then attach each of the straps one by one
                until the “U” becomes fairly rigid. At this point I can store it in my
                FreeLoader pocket. Of course you can lay one strap out flat and attach
                your other straps on top until it becomes a multi-layered semi-rigid
                brick/bar, but then it is not as easy to fold over to stash in to a
                pocket. This method will also cause the inner folded layers to ripple
                when folding over because they do not have to stretch as far as the outer
                folded Velcro layers. Over time the rippling effect will cause the Velcro
                to have creases, which resist a more uniform flat hooking surface when
                trying to strap cargo down.
                Alternatively, you can actually wrap your bike frame with the one-wrap
                straps almost like cork handle-bar grip tape. This allows out-of-the-way
                storage of your straps as well as protection to your paint job.
                Additionally, you can even apply sticky-backed Velcro to patch kits and
                other small items so you can slap them on directly to almost anywhere on
                your frame without any hardware mounts. If you do this I recommend
                keeping the hook side against the bike frame. This way the loop side is
                not only softer to the touch when handling/touching your bike, but dust
                and lint is not as likely to stick to your bike. Of course you can also
                wrap your handlebars for added padding in your grip, but I do not
                recommend this because the pressure your palms put on the Velcro causes
                the hooks to get especially crushed, so they will not work as well when
                strapping things down.
                One disadvantage to wrapping your frame in Velcro develops when it rains.
                The loop or fuzzy material on the Velcro soaks up water to a degree, so
                you end up adding extra weight instead of allowing rain to run off. Rain
                on the ground can also help kick up dirt, which then becomes mud clumps
                stuck to your fuzzy Velcro, like dingle-berries on an unclean person’s
                hairy butt crack.

                I hope this helps.
                Ride safe,
                _TONE_
              • Dave Lloyd
                This stuff, from Lee Valley (a very fun catalog to browse through) also looks interesting: http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=65470&cat=1,43326,59481
                Message 7 of 14 , Aug 6, 2010
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                  This stuff, from Lee Valley (a very fun catalog to browse through) also looks interesting:
                  http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=65470&cat=1,43326,59481


                  --dlloyd



                  On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 10:45, Tone <tone@...> wrote:
                   

                  I never use Bungee cords. They are dangerous. An X-girlfriend of mine was
                  a messenger in San Francisco. She had a rear rack for touring and had an
                  incident with a bungee cord breaking. The hook caught her face within an
                  inch of her eye and fortunately only left her a permanent scar. After
                  that she only used inner tubes.

                  When I was messengering in NY with my Xtracycle I decided not to use
                  inner tubes though. Instead, I obviously used the triple-snapping system
                  of the Freeloaders as much as possible. Never forget they can all clip
                  across the top of the snap deck and interconnect with each other to form
                  an X, etc. If you only need to load something on one side, which was
                  usually the case for me, connecting the straps across the decks give you
                  lots of length due to the straps from the other side.
                  Of course strapping larger loads of cargo to both sides generally
                  involves something beyond the Freeloader straps. That is when I pull out
                  double-sided Velcro straps. Sometimes it is referred to as on-wrap
                  hook-n-loop strapping. JJ mentioned the ¾” one-wrap and included a link
                  for it. $8 for 35’ of the stuff sounds like a decent deal. However, I did
                  not use ¾” one-wrap Velcro. I would think the connection for that stuff
                  might not be strong enough in certain circumstances. Instead I opted for
                  2” wide industrial-strength Velcro. The industrial-strength style of
                  Velcro has flatter more dense hooks, which do not feel so scratchy. The
                  flat hooks are less likely to be crushed and loose grip over time, and of
                  course having an extra 1.25” of gripping surface helps even more.
                  I started using 2” double-sided Velcro because I bought a 25’ roll of 2”
                  wide sticky-backed Velcro from Costco or Home Depot so I could use the
                  stuff for various projects. When I had some excess lengths I decided to
                  simply stick the hook and loop sides back-to-back to make one-wrap style
                  strapping. That is when I realized the potential for tying down loads on
                  my Xtracycle. I made and cut about eight 30” lengths and keep them in my
                  Freeloaders. They make excellent and versatile strapping. On rare
                  occasions when loading especially bulky double-sided loads, I would
                  include 550 parachute cords as a complement to the Velcro.

                  By the way, if you are the type of cyclist, who uses ankle cuffs to keep
                  your pants from snagging in your chain, that one-wrap Velcro is great
                  too. I keep three lengths of ¾” or 1” one-wrap Velcro with me whenever I
                  am cycling. The one-wrap is convenient enough to stash almost anywhere,
                  but because I almost never go anywhere on my bike without my messenger
                  bag I always simply stick the one-wrap to the bag’s existing Velcro
                  closures and the one-wrap still allows it to function normally. In fact I
                  actually cut the thinner one-wrap straps to the exact length of the
                  Velcro closures on my messenger bag so everything fits and looks good.
                  ¾ or 1” one-wrap is also great in a pinch if you have a minor accident
                  and need to bandage something like a bloody knee/elbow scrape. I would
                  just detach the one-wrap from my mess-bag and use two straps to secure a
                  bandana above and below my knee. For your information, I also keep at
                  least two bandanas in my mess bag too, at least one for bandaging
                  emergencies, which is stored in a “clean pocket”, and another in a
                  separate pocket for freshening up or wiping grease/dirt after road
                  repairs. Bandanas also come in handy for other needs while
                  camping/touring on your bike.

                  Usually around Xmas my wife or sister gets me something from Xtracycle.
                  Last year my sister got me the Eco-deck and three Utility Belts. The
                  utility belts really make it easier to strap down most cargo I might have
                  since they can conveniently attach and extend the FreeLoader straps or be
                  used independently. I still carry the 2” one-wrap Velcro straps, but
                  rarely need to use them. I have been using the Velcro for several years
                  now and it has definitely shown wear. Even though it has that industrial
                  flat hook surface, it still works and I continue to use it when
                  necessary. Apart from a little functionality degradation due to the
                  flattening hooks, the Velcro does look a little worn after so many years.
                  The flatter industrial hooks are much less likely to snag hair and lint,
                  etc. than standard Velcro, but several years is a long time to use a
                  strapping system outdoors. Also, they look even rattier because I did not
                  buy one-wrap specific strapping, but instead made my own by adhering two
                  sides of sticky-backed Velcro together. Now my self-made “one-wrap” kind
                  of peels up on the ends/edges a little, so the adhesive does not really
                  work in the expose spots.
                  If I had to do it all over again I would instead buy a big roll of 2”
                  wide industrial-hook style one-wrap, then cut a dozen lengths to about
                  30”. That way the ends and edges would not peel up. While working on some
                  other projects involving colored Velcro my research discovered a few
                  Velcro suppliers, which sold one-wrap strapping:

                  http://www.hookandloop.com
                  (Has the most information)

                  http://feinersupply.com

                  http://www.levittextiles.com

                  http://www.textol.com

                  Keep in mind one-wrap is usually not sold with the industrial hook style
                  on one-side via the automated web site system because the industrial
                  Velcro generally comes in sew-on or sticky-back forms. You may have to
                  e-mail to inquire specifically about industrial one-wrap, but I think you
                  can still get it. Some of these suppliers also have hook-n-loop strapping
                  in different materials. I think it normally comes in nylon, but you can
                  get polyester-based hook-n-loop straps, which resist chemicals and UV
                  light and supposedly maintain strength a little better in the rain. Also,
                  if you intend to get adhesive-backed Velcro for a project/use other than
                  tie-down straps, then pay attention to what kind of adhesive is on the
                  back of the strap. You can get sticky-backed hook-n-loop straps/rolls
                  with either an acrylic or rubber based adhesive, so you should determine
                  what surfaces you intend to stick the sticky-backed Velcro on before
                  purchasing.

                  By the way, when I stash my “one-wrap” straps I usually fold one into a
                  U-shape with the loop side out, then attach each of the straps one by one
                  until the “U” becomes fairly rigid. At this point I can store it in my
                  FreeLoader pocket. Of course you can lay one strap out flat and attach
                  your other straps on top until it becomes a multi-layered semi-rigid
                  brick/bar, but then it is not as easy to fold over to stash in to a
                  pocket. This method will also cause the inner folded layers to ripple
                  when folding over because they do not have to stretch as far as the outer
                  folded Velcro layers. Over time the rippling effect will cause the Velcro
                  to have creases, which resist a more uniform flat hooking surface when
                  trying to strap cargo down.
                  Alternatively, you can actually wrap your bike frame with the one-wrap
                  straps almost like cork handle-bar grip tape. This allows out-of-the-way
                  storage of your straps as well as protection to your paint job.
                  Additionally, you can even apply sticky-backed Velcro to patch kits and
                  other small items so you can slap them on directly to almost anywhere on
                  your frame without any hardware mounts. If you do this I recommend
                  keeping the hook side against the bike frame. This way the loop side is
                  not only softer to the touch when handling/touching your bike, but dust
                  and lint is not as likely to stick to your bike. Of course you can also
                  wrap your handlebars for added padding in your grip, but I do not
                  recommend this because the pressure your palms put on the Velcro causes
                  the hooks to get especially crushed, so they will not work as well when
                  strapping things down.
                  One disadvantage to wrapping your frame in Velcro develops when it rains.
                  The loop or fuzzy material on the Velcro soaks up water to a degree, so
                  you end up adding extra weight instead of allowing rain to run off. Rain
                  on the ground can also help kick up dirt, which then becomes mud clumps
                  stuck to your fuzzy Velcro, like dingle-berries on an unclean person’s
                  hairy butt crack.

                  I hope this helps.
                  Ride safe,
                  _TONE_


                • Elaine Nelson
                  Am I the lone bungee r here? Well, most of the time I m using them to secure my rain tarp, and I ve found that to be the simplest solution when I m parked all
                  Message 8 of 14 , Aug 6, 2010
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                    Am I the lone bungee'r here? Well, most of the time I'm using them to
                    secure my rain tarp, and I've found that to be the simplest solution
                    when I'm parked all day. (Bright green bungees + purple poncho = color
                    scheme from a 90s Batman movie!)

                    I'm just now working out how to use the camstraps effectively. :) My
                    significant other got into them in a big way the last time we had some
                    warm weather...he worked out that he could attach a folding lounge
                    chair atop the snapdeck: one strap to hold it to the bike, the other
                    to hold it shut. At some point I should probably add the photo to my
                    Flickr stream.

                    Elaine Nelson
                    http://elainenelson.org/
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