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Re: [rootsradicals] Bungees vs Cam Straps and Rope

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  • Dave Lloyd
    I like old innertubes. Work about as well as bungees, just tie knots in em at either end. Plus the don t come with the bonus of turning you into an eye
    Message 1 of 14 , Aug 5, 2010
      I like old innertubes.  Work about as well as bungees, just tie knots in 'em at either end.  Plus the don't come with the bonus of turning you into an eye patch wearing pirate when something goes awry.

      --dlloyd



      On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 12:36, jenstheblackdane <public@...> wrote:
       

      Is there a bias in the the Roots Rads community against Bungees?
      And if so, why?

      No judgement either way!

      Securing a load on any vehicle is an art form - even more so on a bike.

      I'd love to hear some of our Roots Rads "Artists" discuss their preferred "mediums" (bungee, rope, straps, dental floss, etc.) and how/why they came settle on them.


    • Devian Gilbert
      also bungees don t provide really much control over the amount of tension you can apply to securing your load. the most versatile way is to learn knots and use
      Message 2 of 14 , Aug 5, 2010
        also bungees don't provide really much control over the amount of tension you can apply to securing your load.

        the most versatile way is to learn knots and use rope or strap.


        to get an idea of using straps, holes in snap decks, etc...

        d-

        On Aug 5, 2010, at 10:39 AM, Dave Lloyd wrote:

        I like old innertubes.  Work about as well as bungees, just tie knots in 'em at either end.  Plus the don't come with the bonus of turning you into an eye patch wearing pirate when something goes awry.

        --dlloyd



        On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 12:36, jenstheblackdane <public@jensrasmusse n.info> wrote:
         

        Is there a bias in the the Roots Rads community against Bungees?
        And if so, why?

        No judgement either way!

        Securing a load on any vehicle is an art form - even more so on a bike.

        I'd love to hear some of our Roots Rads "Artists" discuss their preferred "mediums" (bungee, rope, straps, dental floss, etc.) and how/why they came settle on them.




      • Liam Casey
        Another vote against bungees and for tubes here, both for the aforementioned pirate-eye problem and simple price/performance. Here s a tip: 99% of the time you
        Message 3 of 14 , Aug 5, 2010
          Another vote against bungees and for tubes here, both for the aforementioned pirate-eye problem and simple price/performance. Here's a tip: 99% of the time you don't need to tie a knot in a tube. You can just wrap it a few times and the friction will hold it in place. I've never had a tube come off this way, and you never have to worry about untying them.

          I do agree with Devian that ropes are the most versatile, and the least likely to crush a delicate load. That said, if I don't have to worry about crushing, I'm more likely to be lazy and just stretch and wrap a tube instead of tie a knot that I may or may not have remembered correctly. I know I should take the time to learn them properly!

          Liam

          On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Devian Gilbert <asanacycles@...> wrote:
           

          also bungees don't provide really much control over the amount of tension you can apply to securing your load.


          the most versatile way is to learn knots and use rope or strap.


          to get an idea of using straps, holes in snap decks, etc...

          d-

          On Aug 5, 2010, at 10:39 AM, Dave Lloyd wrote:

          I like old innertubes.  Work about as well as bungees, just tie knots in 'em at either end.  Plus the don't come with the bonus of turning you into an eye patch wearing pirate when something goes awry.

          --dlloyd



          On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 12:36, jenstheblackdane <public@...> wrote:
           

          Is there a bias in the the Roots Rads community against Bungees?
          And if so, why?

          No judgement either way!

          Securing a load on any vehicle is an art form - even more so on a bike.

          I'd love to hear some of our Roots Rads "Artists" discuss their preferred "mediums" (bungee, rope, straps, dental floss, etc.) and how/why they came settle on them.





        • Andrew Kreps
          On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 10:36 AM, jenstheblackdane
          Message 4 of 14 , Aug 5, 2010
            On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 10:36 AM, jenstheblackdane <public@...> wrote:
            Is there a bias in the the Roots Rads community against Bungees?
            And if so, why?


            Bungees aren't secure.  With the additional force that is applied while moving, they have too much give for my liking.  I'm a strap it and forget it kind of guy.  I always use cam straps, and for the bigger stuff, ratchet straps.  


          • jj
            I use camstraps. I have 2 12footers installed underneath the snapdeck. I have used rope in the past as well, and it works fine. I carry cording and some velcro
            Message 5 of 14 , Aug 5, 2010
              I use camstraps. I have 2 12footers installed underneath the snapdeck. I have used rope in the past as well, and it works fine. I carry cording and some velcro to secure LONG things to the bike. the cording is in one of these: http://prostores2.carrierzone.com/servlet/viewtainercom/Detail?no=1 and is in the pocket. the velcro is the double sided stuff that is used in telecom to secure cords: http://www.harborfreight.com/3-4-quarter-inch-x-35-ft-roll-hook-and-loop-cable-strap-96215.html I keep long chunks of that rolled up on the freeloader frames in a few spots. This is also how I secure blinkies to the back of the x frame.

              Bungies have a very specific use and that is to hold things IN: in baskets, in truck beds, in bins. Bungies do ahorrible job of securing one item to another, due to their elasticity.  so that garbage bag of clothing that we took to goodwill on monday? It was put into a box, then camstrapped to the snapdeck and the bungie net over the top of the box to keep things from hopping out.

              JJ



              On 10-08-05 10:36 AM, jenstheblackdane wrote:
               

              Is there a bias in the the Roots Rads community against Bungees?
              And if so, why?

              No judgement either way!

              Securing a load on any vehicle is an art form - even more so on a bike.

              I'd love to hear some of our Roots Rads "Artists" discuss their preferred "mediums" (bungee, rope, straps, dental floss, etc.) and how/why they came settle on them.

            • Steve Lange
              Another vote for camstraps. I have 2-3 that I carry in one of the inside black hole pockets at all times, along with my reusable grocery bags and a bungee or
              Message 6 of 14 , Aug 5, 2010
                Another vote for camstraps. I have 2-3 that I carry in one of the inside "black hole" pockets at all times, along with my reusable grocery bags and a bungee or two.  Bungees have their place, but the camstraps are the go-to solution for almost everything.

                Steve Lange
                Santa Barbara, CA


                On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 12:17 PM, jj <jj@...> wrote:


                I use camstraps. I have 2 12footers installed underneath the snapdeck. I have used rope in the past as well, and it works fine. I carry cording and some velcro to secure LONG things to the bike. the cording is in one of these: http://prostores2.carrierzone.com/servlet/viewtainercom/Detail?no=1 and is in the pocket. the velcro is the double sided stuff that is used in telecom to secure cords: http://www.harborfreight.com/3-4-quarter-inch-x-35-ft-roll-hook-and-loop-cable-strap-96215.html I keep long chunks of that rolled up on the freeloader frames in a few spots. This is also how I secure blinkies to the back of the x frame.

                Bungies have a very specific use and that is to hold things IN: in baskets, in truck beds, in bins. Bungies do ahorrible job of securing one item to another, due to their elasticity.  so that garbage bag of clothing that we took to goodwill on monday? It was put into a box, then camstrapped to the snapdeck and the bungie net over the top of the box to keep things from hopping out.

                JJ




                On 10-08-05 10:36 AM, jenstheblackdane wrote:
                 

                Is there a bias in the the Roots Rads community against Bungees?
                And if so, why?

                No judgement either way!

                Securing a load on any vehicle is an art form - even more so on a bike.

                I'd love to hear some of our Roots Rads "Artists" discuss their preferred "mediums" (bungee, rope, straps, dental floss, etc.) and how/why they came settle on them.




              • ama3655@aol.com
                I also use cam straps. I keep 6 on the bike at all times. I have a few more available for unusual loads if needed. 550 cord takes care of other stuff, it has
                Message 7 of 14 , Aug 5, 2010
                  I also use cam straps. I keep 6 on the bike at all times. I have a few more available for unusual loads if needed. 550 cord takes care of other stuff, it has to be pretty weird to need the 550 cord. Never lost a load yet, knock wood.
                  I have used bungees to strap light loads to the front rack, but avoid them whenever possible. The springy hook thing scares me.
                  FatRob
                • Rick Pickett
                  cam straps only, did the bungees when I was afflicted with short bikeitis. I keep two on my Big Dummy. They are always attached, front and aft of the v-racks.
                  Message 8 of 14 , Aug 5, 2010
                    cam straps only, did the bungees when I was afflicted with short bikeitis.

                    I keep two on my Big Dummy. They are always attached, front and aft of the v-racks. The cam sides are on my drive side and hang down inside my freeloaders, the strap ends are on the non drive side and tied together in the not that unravels when you pull on the loose end. Allows me to form an X on top of whatever cargo I have.


                    "Melancholy is incompatible with bicycling."  – James E. Starrs

                    artistic shenaniganizer | rick@...
                    888.537-1401 | every day adventure






                    On Aug 5, 2010, at 4:34 PM, ama3655@... wrote:

                     

                    I also use cam straps. I keep 6 on the bike at all times. I have a few more available for unusual loads if needed. 550 cord takes care of other stuff, it has to be pretty weird to need the 550 cord. Never lost a load yet, knock wood.
                    I have used bungees to strap light loads to the front rack, but avoid them whenever possible. The springy hook thing scares me.
                    FatRob


                  • Pete B
                    Definitely a bias against bungee cords by me. Hooks and rotating masses have a gravitational attractiveness that doubles with speed ;-) My preference is for
                    Message 9 of 14 , Aug 5, 2010
                      Definitely a bias against bungee cords by me.

                      Hooks and rotating masses have a gravitational attractiveness that doubles with speed ;-)

                      My preference is for cam straps and the occasional ratchet tie-down.

                      I have seen Joel (from Human Powered Cycles) do amazing load tiedowns (and temp construction) with old inner tubes.
                      but I do like the neatness of straps.
                       
                      Pete.B
                      'Newspapers are unable, seemingly, to discriminate between a bicycle accident and the collapse of civilization' : George Bernard Shaw


                      On 6 August 2010 03:36, jenstheblackdane <public@...> wrote:
                       

                      Is there a bias in the the Roots Rads community against Bungees?
                      And if so, why?

                      No judgement either way!

                      Securing a load on any vehicle is an art form - even more so on a bike.

                      I'd love to hear some of our Roots Rads "Artists" discuss their preferred "mediums" (bungee, rope, straps, dental floss, etc.) and how/why they came settle on them.


                    • phaedrus at yahoo
                      I really like Rok Straps - the ones using loops rather than hooks. They saved my backside on a motorcycle trip when I rolled in the middle of nowhere ripping a
                      Message 10 of 14 , Aug 6, 2010
                        I really like Rok Straps - the ones using loops rather than hooks.

                        They saved my backside on a motorcycle trip when I rolled in the
                        middle of nowhere ripping a bunch of stuff off my bike.  My buddy had
                        a bunch of them and was more or less able to temporarily strap my
                        motorcycle together with them long enough to get us the 50 miles or so
                        to civilization.

                        I got a bunch of varying sizes and use them regularly on the cargo
                        bike and trailer.
                        Basically, they're a webbing strap with a loop at each end to connect
                        to your vehicle like xtracycle's cam straps do.   They connect
                        together with a standard nylon buckle.  What makes them different is
                        while the one side has the standard nylon buckle/webbing strap length
                        adjustment, the other side is a flat bungee like material.  The idea
                        is you don't stretch them ridiculously like people do with bungee
                        cords - you adjust the strap length so that you're putting a 25% or so
                        stretch on the bungee portion and then that bit of stretch adds
                        tension to keep your load secure. They also don't have the pirate eye
                        making hooks. We did learn the hard way if your straps aren't long
                        enough and you DO over stretch the bungee, be very very careful when
                        releasing the tension as the long end can come around with quite some
                        speed. A nylon buckle to the nads at high velocity may not cause
                        serious injury, but its not pleasant. I've since solved that problem
                        by not over stretching them.

                        They're a bit pricey for a job that can pretty much be replicated with
                        inner tubes and rope, but if you've got them, they're great.

                        I've been trying to convince my LBS to carry them.  I'd bet xtracycle
                        branded ones would sell as well ;)

                        http://www.rokstraps.com/products/products.html

                        If you scroll down a bit, I use the cruiser, the motorcycle, and the pack adj.

                        - phaedrus


                        On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 7:40 PM, Pete B <nackterman@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Definitely a bias against bungee cords by me.
                        >
                        > Hooks and rotating masses have a gravitational attractiveness that doubles with speed ;-)
                        > My preference is for cam straps and the occasional ratchet tie-down.
                        > I have seen Joel (from Human Powered Cycles) do amazing load tiedowns (and temp construction) with old inner tubes.
                        > but I do like the neatness of straps.
                        >
                        > Pete.B
                        > 'Newspapers are unable, seemingly, to discriminate between a bicycle accident and the collapse of civilization' : George Bernard Shaw
                        >
                        >
                        > On 6 August 2010 03:36, jenstheblackdane <public@...> wrote:
                        >>
                        >>
                        >>
                        >> Is there a bias in the the Roots Rads community against Bungees?
                        >> And if so, why?
                        >>
                        >> No judgement either way!
                        >>
                        >> Securing a load on any vehicle is an art form - even more so on a bike.
                        >>
                        >> I'd love to hear some of our Roots Rads "Artists" discuss their preferred "mediums" (bungee, rope, straps, dental floss, etc.) and how/why they came settle on them.
                        >>
                        >
                        >
                      • Tone
                        I never use Bungee cords. They are dangerous. An X-girlfriend of mine was a messenger in San Francisco. She had a rear rack for touring and had an incident
                        Message 11 of 14 , Aug 6, 2010
                          I never use Bungee cords. They are dangerous. An X-girlfriend of mine was
                          a messenger in San Francisco. She had a rear rack for touring and had an
                          incident with a bungee cord breaking. The hook caught her face within an
                          inch of her eye and fortunately only left her a permanent scar. After
                          that she only used inner tubes.

                          When I was messengering in NY with my Xtracycle I decided not to use
                          inner tubes though. Instead, I obviously used the triple-snapping system
                          of the Freeloaders as much as possible. Never forget they can all clip
                          across the top of the snap deck and interconnect with each other to form
                          an X, etc. If you only need to load something on one side, which was
                          usually the case for me, connecting the straps across the decks give you
                          lots of length due to the straps from the other side.
                          Of course strapping larger loads of cargo to both sides generally
                          involves something beyond the Freeloader straps. That is when I pull out
                          double-sided Velcro straps. Sometimes it is referred to as on-wrap
                          hook-n-loop strapping. JJ mentioned the ¾” one-wrap and included a link
                          for it. $8 for 35’ of the stuff sounds like a decent deal. However, I did
                          not use ¾” one-wrap Velcro. I would think the connection for that stuff
                          might not be strong enough in certain circumstances. Instead I opted for
                          2” wide industrial-strength Velcro. The industrial-strength style of
                          Velcro has flatter more dense hooks, which do not feel so scratchy. The
                          flat hooks are less likely to be crushed and loose grip over time, and of
                          course having an extra 1.25” of gripping surface helps even more.
                          I started using 2” double-sided Velcro because I bought a 25’ roll of 2”
                          wide sticky-backed Velcro from Costco or Home Depot so I could use the
                          stuff for various projects. When I had some excess lengths I decided to
                          simply stick the hook and loop sides back-to-back to make one-wrap style
                          strapping. That is when I realized the potential for tying down loads on
                          my Xtracycle. I made and cut about eight 30” lengths and keep them in my
                          Freeloaders. They make excellent and versatile strapping. On rare
                          occasions when loading especially bulky double-sided loads, I would
                          include 550 parachute cords as a complement to the Velcro.

                          By the way, if you are the type of cyclist, who uses ankle cuffs to keep
                          your pants from snagging in your chain, that one-wrap Velcro is great
                          too. I keep three lengths of ¾” or 1” one-wrap Velcro with me whenever I
                          am cycling. The one-wrap is convenient enough to stash almost anywhere,
                          but because I almost never go anywhere on my bike without my messenger
                          bag I always simply stick the one-wrap to the bag’s existing Velcro
                          closures and the one-wrap still allows it to function normally. In fact I
                          actually cut the thinner one-wrap straps to the exact length of the
                          Velcro closures on my messenger bag so everything fits and looks good.
                          ¾ or 1” one-wrap is also great in a pinch if you have a minor accident
                          and need to bandage something like a bloody knee/elbow scrape. I would
                          just detach the one-wrap from my mess-bag and use two straps to secure a
                          bandana above and below my knee. For your information, I also keep at
                          least two bandanas in my mess bag too, at least one for bandaging
                          emergencies, which is stored in a “clean pocket”, and another in a
                          separate pocket for freshening up or wiping grease/dirt after road
                          repairs. Bandanas also come in handy for other needs while
                          camping/touring on your bike.

                          Usually around Xmas my wife or sister gets me something from Xtracycle.
                          Last year my sister got me the Eco-deck and three Utility Belts. The
                          utility belts really make it easier to strap down most cargo I might have
                          since they can conveniently attach and extend the FreeLoader straps or be
                          used independently. I still carry the 2” one-wrap Velcro straps, but
                          rarely need to use them. I have been using the Velcro for several years
                          now and it has definitely shown wear. Even though it has that industrial
                          flat hook surface, it still works and I continue to use it when
                          necessary. Apart from a little functionality degradation due to the
                          flattening hooks, the Velcro does look a little worn after so many years.
                          The flatter industrial hooks are much less likely to snag hair and lint,
                          etc. than standard Velcro, but several years is a long time to use a
                          strapping system outdoors. Also, they look even rattier because I did not
                          buy one-wrap specific strapping, but instead made my own by adhering two
                          sides of sticky-backed Velcro together. Now my self-made “one-wrap” kind
                          of peels up on the ends/edges a little, so the adhesive does not really
                          work in the expose spots.
                          If I had to do it all over again I would instead buy a big roll of 2”
                          wide industrial-hook style one-wrap, then cut a dozen lengths to about
                          30”. That way the ends and edges would not peel up. While working on some
                          other projects involving colored Velcro my research discovered a few
                          Velcro suppliers, which sold one-wrap strapping:

                          http://www.hookandloop.com
                          (Has the most information)

                          http://feinersupply.com

                          http://www.levittextiles.com

                          http://www.textol.com

                          Keep in mind one-wrap is usually not sold with the industrial hook style
                          on one-side via the automated web site system because the industrial
                          Velcro generally comes in sew-on or sticky-back forms. You may have to
                          e-mail to inquire specifically about industrial one-wrap, but I think you
                          can still get it. Some of these suppliers also have hook-n-loop strapping
                          in different materials. I think it normally comes in nylon, but you can
                          get polyester-based hook-n-loop straps, which resist chemicals and UV
                          light and supposedly maintain strength a little better in the rain. Also,
                          if you intend to get adhesive-backed Velcro for a project/use other than
                          tie-down straps, then pay attention to what kind of adhesive is on the
                          back of the strap. You can get sticky-backed hook-n-loop straps/rolls
                          with either an acrylic or rubber based adhesive, so you should determine
                          what surfaces you intend to stick the sticky-backed Velcro on before
                          purchasing.

                          By the way, when I stash my “one-wrap” straps I usually fold one into a
                          U-shape with the loop side out, then attach each of the straps one by one
                          until the “U” becomes fairly rigid. At this point I can store it in my
                          FreeLoader pocket. Of course you can lay one strap out flat and attach
                          your other straps on top until it becomes a multi-layered semi-rigid
                          brick/bar, but then it is not as easy to fold over to stash in to a
                          pocket. This method will also cause the inner folded layers to ripple
                          when folding over because they do not have to stretch as far as the outer
                          folded Velcro layers. Over time the rippling effect will cause the Velcro
                          to have creases, which resist a more uniform flat hooking surface when
                          trying to strap cargo down.
                          Alternatively, you can actually wrap your bike frame with the one-wrap
                          straps almost like cork handle-bar grip tape. This allows out-of-the-way
                          storage of your straps as well as protection to your paint job.
                          Additionally, you can even apply sticky-backed Velcro to patch kits and
                          other small items so you can slap them on directly to almost anywhere on
                          your frame without any hardware mounts. If you do this I recommend
                          keeping the hook side against the bike frame. This way the loop side is
                          not only softer to the touch when handling/touching your bike, but dust
                          and lint is not as likely to stick to your bike. Of course you can also
                          wrap your handlebars for added padding in your grip, but I do not
                          recommend this because the pressure your palms put on the Velcro causes
                          the hooks to get especially crushed, so they will not work as well when
                          strapping things down.
                          One disadvantage to wrapping your frame in Velcro develops when it rains.
                          The loop or fuzzy material on the Velcro soaks up water to a degree, so
                          you end up adding extra weight instead of allowing rain to run off. Rain
                          on the ground can also help kick up dirt, which then becomes mud clumps
                          stuck to your fuzzy Velcro, like dingle-berries on an unclean person’s
                          hairy butt crack.

                          I hope this helps.
                          Ride safe,
                          _TONE_
                        • Dave Lloyd
                          This stuff, from Lee Valley (a very fun catalog to browse through) also looks interesting: http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=65470&cat=1,43326,59481
                          Message 12 of 14 , Aug 6, 2010
                            This stuff, from Lee Valley (a very fun catalog to browse through) also looks interesting:
                            http://www.leevalley.com/US/wood/page.aspx?p=65470&cat=1,43326,59481


                            --dlloyd



                            On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 10:45, Tone <tone@...> wrote:
                             

                            I never use Bungee cords. They are dangerous. An X-girlfriend of mine was
                            a messenger in San Francisco. She had a rear rack for touring and had an
                            incident with a bungee cord breaking. The hook caught her face within an
                            inch of her eye and fortunately only left her a permanent scar. After
                            that she only used inner tubes.

                            When I was messengering in NY with my Xtracycle I decided not to use
                            inner tubes though. Instead, I obviously used the triple-snapping system
                            of the Freeloaders as much as possible. Never forget they can all clip
                            across the top of the snap deck and interconnect with each other to form
                            an X, etc. If you only need to load something on one side, which was
                            usually the case for me, connecting the straps across the decks give you
                            lots of length due to the straps from the other side.
                            Of course strapping larger loads of cargo to both sides generally
                            involves something beyond the Freeloader straps. That is when I pull out
                            double-sided Velcro straps. Sometimes it is referred to as on-wrap
                            hook-n-loop strapping. JJ mentioned the ¾” one-wrap and included a link
                            for it. $8 for 35’ of the stuff sounds like a decent deal. However, I did
                            not use ¾” one-wrap Velcro. I would think the connection for that stuff
                            might not be strong enough in certain circumstances. Instead I opted for
                            2” wide industrial-strength Velcro. The industrial-strength style of
                            Velcro has flatter more dense hooks, which do not feel so scratchy. The
                            flat hooks are less likely to be crushed and loose grip over time, and of
                            course having an extra 1.25” of gripping surface helps even more.
                            I started using 2” double-sided Velcro because I bought a 25’ roll of 2”
                            wide sticky-backed Velcro from Costco or Home Depot so I could use the
                            stuff for various projects. When I had some excess lengths I decided to
                            simply stick the hook and loop sides back-to-back to make one-wrap style
                            strapping. That is when I realized the potential for tying down loads on
                            my Xtracycle. I made and cut about eight 30” lengths and keep them in my
                            Freeloaders. They make excellent and versatile strapping. On rare
                            occasions when loading especially bulky double-sided loads, I would
                            include 550 parachute cords as a complement to the Velcro.

                            By the way, if you are the type of cyclist, who uses ankle cuffs to keep
                            your pants from snagging in your chain, that one-wrap Velcro is great
                            too. I keep three lengths of ¾” or 1” one-wrap Velcro with me whenever I
                            am cycling. The one-wrap is convenient enough to stash almost anywhere,
                            but because I almost never go anywhere on my bike without my messenger
                            bag I always simply stick the one-wrap to the bag’s existing Velcro
                            closures and the one-wrap still allows it to function normally. In fact I
                            actually cut the thinner one-wrap straps to the exact length of the
                            Velcro closures on my messenger bag so everything fits and looks good.
                            ¾ or 1” one-wrap is also great in a pinch if you have a minor accident
                            and need to bandage something like a bloody knee/elbow scrape. I would
                            just detach the one-wrap from my mess-bag and use two straps to secure a
                            bandana above and below my knee. For your information, I also keep at
                            least two bandanas in my mess bag too, at least one for bandaging
                            emergencies, which is stored in a “clean pocket”, and another in a
                            separate pocket for freshening up or wiping grease/dirt after road
                            repairs. Bandanas also come in handy for other needs while
                            camping/touring on your bike.

                            Usually around Xmas my wife or sister gets me something from Xtracycle.
                            Last year my sister got me the Eco-deck and three Utility Belts. The
                            utility belts really make it easier to strap down most cargo I might have
                            since they can conveniently attach and extend the FreeLoader straps or be
                            used independently. I still carry the 2” one-wrap Velcro straps, but
                            rarely need to use them. I have been using the Velcro for several years
                            now and it has definitely shown wear. Even though it has that industrial
                            flat hook surface, it still works and I continue to use it when
                            necessary. Apart from a little functionality degradation due to the
                            flattening hooks, the Velcro does look a little worn after so many years.
                            The flatter industrial hooks are much less likely to snag hair and lint,
                            etc. than standard Velcro, but several years is a long time to use a
                            strapping system outdoors. Also, they look even rattier because I did not
                            buy one-wrap specific strapping, but instead made my own by adhering two
                            sides of sticky-backed Velcro together. Now my self-made “one-wrap” kind
                            of peels up on the ends/edges a little, so the adhesive does not really
                            work in the expose spots.
                            If I had to do it all over again I would instead buy a big roll of 2”
                            wide industrial-hook style one-wrap, then cut a dozen lengths to about
                            30”. That way the ends and edges would not peel up. While working on some
                            other projects involving colored Velcro my research discovered a few
                            Velcro suppliers, which sold one-wrap strapping:

                            http://www.hookandloop.com
                            (Has the most information)

                            http://feinersupply.com

                            http://www.levittextiles.com

                            http://www.textol.com

                            Keep in mind one-wrap is usually not sold with the industrial hook style
                            on one-side via the automated web site system because the industrial
                            Velcro generally comes in sew-on or sticky-back forms. You may have to
                            e-mail to inquire specifically about industrial one-wrap, but I think you
                            can still get it. Some of these suppliers also have hook-n-loop strapping
                            in different materials. I think it normally comes in nylon, but you can
                            get polyester-based hook-n-loop straps, which resist chemicals and UV
                            light and supposedly maintain strength a little better in the rain. Also,
                            if you intend to get adhesive-backed Velcro for a project/use other than
                            tie-down straps, then pay attention to what kind of adhesive is on the
                            back of the strap. You can get sticky-backed hook-n-loop straps/rolls
                            with either an acrylic or rubber based adhesive, so you should determine
                            what surfaces you intend to stick the sticky-backed Velcro on before
                            purchasing.

                            By the way, when I stash my “one-wrap” straps I usually fold one into a
                            U-shape with the loop side out, then attach each of the straps one by one
                            until the “U” becomes fairly rigid. At this point I can store it in my
                            FreeLoader pocket. Of course you can lay one strap out flat and attach
                            your other straps on top until it becomes a multi-layered semi-rigid
                            brick/bar, but then it is not as easy to fold over to stash in to a
                            pocket. This method will also cause the inner folded layers to ripple
                            when folding over because they do not have to stretch as far as the outer
                            folded Velcro layers. Over time the rippling effect will cause the Velcro
                            to have creases, which resist a more uniform flat hooking surface when
                            trying to strap cargo down.
                            Alternatively, you can actually wrap your bike frame with the one-wrap
                            straps almost like cork handle-bar grip tape. This allows out-of-the-way
                            storage of your straps as well as protection to your paint job.
                            Additionally, you can even apply sticky-backed Velcro to patch kits and
                            other small items so you can slap them on directly to almost anywhere on
                            your frame without any hardware mounts. If you do this I recommend
                            keeping the hook side against the bike frame. This way the loop side is
                            not only softer to the touch when handling/touching your bike, but dust
                            and lint is not as likely to stick to your bike. Of course you can also
                            wrap your handlebars for added padding in your grip, but I do not
                            recommend this because the pressure your palms put on the Velcro causes
                            the hooks to get especially crushed, so they will not work as well when
                            strapping things down.
                            One disadvantage to wrapping your frame in Velcro develops when it rains.
                            The loop or fuzzy material on the Velcro soaks up water to a degree, so
                            you end up adding extra weight instead of allowing rain to run off. Rain
                            on the ground can also help kick up dirt, which then becomes mud clumps
                            stuck to your fuzzy Velcro, like dingle-berries on an unclean person’s
                            hairy butt crack.

                            I hope this helps.
                            Ride safe,
                            _TONE_


                          • Elaine Nelson
                            Am I the lone bungee r here? Well, most of the time I m using them to secure my rain tarp, and I ve found that to be the simplest solution when I m parked all
                            Message 13 of 14 , Aug 6, 2010
                              Am I the lone bungee'r here? Well, most of the time I'm using them to
                              secure my rain tarp, and I've found that to be the simplest solution
                              when I'm parked all day. (Bright green bungees + purple poncho = color
                              scheme from a 90s Batman movie!)

                              I'm just now working out how to use the camstraps effectively. :) My
                              significant other got into them in a big way the last time we had some
                              warm weather...he worked out that he could attach a folding lounge
                              chair atop the snapdeck: one strap to hold it to the bike, the other
                              to hold it shut. At some point I should probably add the photo to my
                              Flickr stream.

                              Elaine Nelson
                              http://elainenelson.org/
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