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Re: [rootsradicals] Thanks, Derek

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  • Derek Pearson
    No problems on the back then :) Have fun! ... From: alligator33333 To: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007
    Message 1 of 19 , Jun 13, 2007
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      No problems on the back then :) Have fun!



      ----- Original Message ----
      From: alligator33333 <jvoulgaris1@...>
      To: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 2:24:31 PM
      Subject: [rootsradicals] Thanks, Derek

      My 9 year old weights about 70 lbs, all muscle, and growing fast! Of
      course, it is my hope that the bigger and stronger he gets, the more
      time he will spend on his own bike! But in the meantime, the more we
      are using bikes in any configuration, the better.

      Enjoyed your photos.

      Justina




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    • David Chase
      ... I am bigger, and I think that may matter. ... On 2 miles of flat ground, it is absolutely no problem to haul a child of about that size, and a bicycle, and
      Message 2 of 19 , Jun 13, 2007
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        On 2007-06-13, at 2:57 PM, alligator33333 wrote:
        > I didn't like it either, with my small frame bike (I'm 5'3") and his
        > squirming around.
        I am bigger, and I think that may matter.
        > Which leads me to my
        > question: can I realistically haul my 9 year old (who is 4'5" and
        > growing fast) plus his bike (which has 20" wheels, but soon will
        > graduate to 24")? If so, what kind of distances are we talking about?
        > His school is 7 miles away, flat except for a killer hill at the last
        > mile. Presumably he will ride some portion of that, but let's say he
        > isn't feeling well when I pick him up at the end of the day.
        > Shopping/library/etc is 2 hilly miles away. If I'm hauling him and
        > his bike, will I also be able to carry other stuff, like some library
        > books or a bag of groceries?
        On 2 miles of flat ground, it is absolutely no problem to haul a
        child of about that size,
        and a bicycle, and a bag or two of groceries. For 7 miles, or with
        hill, especially a killer hill, you will definitely feel like you are
        working hard. On the other hand, if you are willing to downshift and
        take your time, you can probably do it.

        How big a hill is it? You can plot your commute on Bikely to figure
        out how many feet you climb, and roughly how steep it is.

        Here's how I did it with my daughter.

        http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/rootsradicals/photos/view/9967?
        b=1&m=f&o=0
      • brian pink
        ... I have to concur with this. Ride your route with some weight. I have some killer hills, and I ride an old Gary Fisher + FreeRadical + Burley D Lite. They
        Message 3 of 19 , Jun 13, 2007
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          >On 2 miles of flat ground, it is absolutely no problem to haul a child
          >of about that size, and a bicycle, and a bag or two of groceries. For
          >7 miles, or with hill, especially a killer hill, you will definitely
          >feel like you are working hard. On the other hand, if you are willing
          >to downshift and take your time, you can probably do it.

          I have to concur with this. Ride your route with some weight. I
          have some killer hills, and I ride an old Gary Fisher +
          FreeRadical + Burley D'Lite. They suck for sure, but what
          matters to you? For me, the car-free nursery school trips mean a
          lot, so is the ride an ideal one? No. But I get there, and it
          could be worse. For all these questions about "is it doable?" I
          think the answer, as Derek said, is "Yes." But you might have to
          really want it. If you do, the Xtracycle is a freakin gem.

          - brian
        • Justina Voulgaris
          Looks like your method for towing the bike lets the kid sit astride rather than side-saddle, which might be more comfortable for my passenger for longer hauls.
          Message 4 of 19 , Jun 13, 2007
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            Looks like your method for towing the bike lets the kid sit astride rather than side-saddle, which might be more comfortable for my passenger for longer hauls.

             

            I'd never heard of Bikely before.  What a fun site!  I determined that my "killer" hill is about 7% grade for half a mile in the middle of a mile and a half of uphill (overall about 5%).  And that's at the end of the 7 miles on the way home from school.  So I need to get in better shape!  And I need to challenge my son to do a good part of it under his own power!!

             

            Justina

             

             

          • Justina Voulgaris
            I like using bikes for utilitarian purposes, so I m not looking for an ideal ride. I need to get back into shape, I don t like going to the gym, I want to get
            Message 5 of 19 , Jun 13, 2007
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              I like using bikes for utilitarian purposes, so I'm not looking for an ideal ride.  I need to get back into shape, I don't like going to the gym, I want to get more cars off the road, I want my son to grow up using his bike for transportation as well as recreation.  My son is with me a lot (he attends an alternative school part-time) so my biking usually needs to include him.  Sounds like the Xtracycle could help make that happen more often.  

               

              Justina

               

              From: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com [mailto:rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of brian pink
              Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 7:52 PM
              To: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [rootsradicals] intro & Q re: hauling bigger kid and his bike

              I have to concur with this. Ride your route with some weight. I
              have some killer hills, and I ride an old Gary Fisher +
              FreeRadical + Burley D'Lite. They suck for sure, but what
              matters to you? For me, the car-free nursery school trips mean a
              lot, so is the ride an ideal one? No. But I get there, and it
              could be worse. For all these questions about "is it doable?" I
              think the answer, as Derek said, is "Yes." But you might have to
              really want it. If you do, the Xtracycle is a freakin gem.

              - brian

            • David Chase
              To compare rides, my morning commute is: http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Belmont-Burlington-commute-over- the-hill I ve never carried a kid over a hill
              Message 6 of 19 , Jun 14, 2007
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                To compare rides, my morning commute is:

                http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Belmont-Burlington-commute-over-
                the-hill

                I've never carried a kid over a hill like the big one in that
                commute; I have carried a kid up about 100 feet of hill, and it was
                not that bad. That big hill, I don't much like it on the return
                because the home side is skinny, a little curvy, and a little steeper.

                Which brings me to speed. You, plus a good-sized load, can generate
                a lot of speed coming downhill, and I've only carried well-behaved
                (non-human, non-towed) loads faster than 25 mph. On my commute side,
                my peak coasting speed is about 31 mph on the less steep side, and 36
                mph on the steep side. You might really want disk brakes -- you can
                dump an incredible hunk of heat into them, and they work in the wet
                (mine squeal like crazy when wet, but they do stop). And speed is
                fun, but you're not very well protected on a bike, and auto drivers
                seem to be surprised by a bike moving faster than 15 mph.

                Also figure, your son will not be 9 forever. By the time you're in
                shape to haul a 9-year old, he'll be 10, and a little while later he
                will be big enough to pedal himself. 11 is a little young for
                traffic, but somewhere between there and 13, he'll almost certainly
                be old enough for supervised rides (I rode my first century when I
                was 13; my middle child went on an unauthorized 2-hour solo
                "excellent adventure" recently -- his sense of direction is (ahem)
                still developing.)

                > I like using bikes for utilitarian purposes, so I'm not looking for
                > an ideal ride. I need to get back into shape, I don't like going
                > to the gym, I want to get more cars off the road, I want my son to
                > grow up using his bike for transportation as well as recreation.
                > My son is with me a lot (he attends an alternative school part-
                > time) so my biking usually needs to include him. Sounds like the
                > Xtracycle could help make that happen more often.
              • alexbknight
                Hi, I know we are all into Xtracycles in this group, but maybe a tandem is a better configuration for your needs? YOu would need to think about how many
                Message 7 of 19 , Jun 14, 2007
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                  Hi,
                  I know we are all into Xtracycles in this group, but maybe a tandem
                  is a better configuration for your needs? YOu would need to think
                  about how many groceries you want to carry, but it sounds like he
                  could be a lot of help with you riding for the whole trip rather than
                  a dead weight, plus he'll be learning about how you ride in traffic.
                  You can get "kiddie kranks" to fit a tandem which mean you don't need
                  to buy a specialist tandem with a small rear frame.

                  Riding on your own, shouldn't mean much more weight than an xtracycle
                  bike.

                  I have two young children so I am getting into the configuration you
                  mention, but at some point I assume they'll outgrow that and I am
                  planning to go to the tandem solution.

                  http://www.tandem-club.org.uk/ might have more information on this.

                  Alex

                  --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "alligator33333"
                  <jvoulgaris1@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I just learned about Xtracycle in a Co-op America newsletter, then
                  did
                  > some additional researching about it on the Internet. WOW! I'm
                  > really intrigued. I'll try to get down to Aaron's Bike Shop soon to
                  > check them out live (I'm in the Seattle area).
                  >
                  > I've got a great trailer (Cycle Tote), but my son has long grown out
                  > of the kid-seat setup, and trailers aren't fun on sidewalks where I
                  > ride with my son. We need to be on the sidewalks because so many
                  > roads around my area have traffic that is too fast and/or heavy to
                  be
                  > safe, even with bike lanes. (I rode for years in New York City, so
                  > I'm a road warrior. But having been hit by a car once, in the
                  suburbs
                  > no less, I don't want a repeat of that experience, especially now
                  that
                  > I'm a parent). Even my husband bikes on the sidewalks in many
                  places.
                  >
                  > My son didn't like the trailer-bike, preferring to be on his own
                  bike.
                  > I didn't like it either, with my small frame bike (I'm 5'3") and
                  his
                  > squirming around. The trailer-bike didn't bother my husband too
                  much
                  > (he's 5'11" and so rides a much larger frame), but as I said, our
                  son
                  > likes his independence! A friend of mine has an attachment that can
                  > link the child's bike to the parent's bike (Tail-gator? or something
                  > like that), but my son is now too big for that.
                  >
                  > So, I'd love to do more cycling (errands, taking my son to school,
                  > maybe some touring). My son is an enthusiastic bicyclist, but rides
                  > hard for a brief time and then poops out. Which leads me to my
                  > question: can I realistically haul my 9 year old (who is 4'5" and
                  > growing fast) plus his bike (which has 20" wheels, but soon will
                  > graduate to 24")? If so, what kind of distances are we talking
                  about?
                  > His school is 7 miles away, flat except for a killer hill at the
                  last
                  > mile. Presumably he will ride some portion of that, but let's say he
                  > isn't feeling well when I pick him up at the end of the day.
                  > Shopping/library/etc is 2 hilly miles away. If I'm hauling him and
                  > his bike, will I also be able to carry other stuff, like some
                  library
                  > books or a bag of groceries?
                  >
                  > Many thanks!!
                  > Justina
                  >
                • liza mattana
                  hey justina, i know this is an extracycle discussion group, and we love our x for hauling stuff, but we bought a used bike friday tandem this year for biking
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jun 14, 2007
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                    hey justina,

                    i know this is an extracycle discussion group, and we love our x for hauling stuff, but we bought a used bike friday tandem this year for biking with our four-year-old daughter. here's a picture:
                    http://bp2.blogger.com/_CGYQGxEMolw/RhvPh-C-MNI/AAAAAAAAAQ0/nkts6Ha_ZWw/s1600-h/P1020960.JPG

                    the biggest factors that made us go with a tandem over the xtracycle (or other attachment like a trail a bike)
                    1--kiddo can participate and help with some much needed pedal power :)
                    2--she learns how to operatate her own bike for the future (pedaling, coasting down hills, leaning to initiate a turn, etc)
                    3--it'll grow as our daughter grows (we can still ride this bike together when she's a teen), and overtime we can build up to longer rides and tours

                    so far, it's a great solution for our family. it basically takes the place of a car for errands, trips to school, getting around town. just another option to think about.

                    liza


                    On 6/13/07, Justina Voulgaris <jvoulgaris1@...> wrote:

                    Looks like your method for towing the bike lets the kid sit astride rather than side-saddle, which might be more comfortable for my passenger for longer hauls.

                     

                    I'd never heard of Bikely before.  What a fun site!  I determined that my "killer" hill is about 7% grade for half a mile in the middle of a mile and a half of uphill (overall about 5%).  And that's at the end of the 7 miles on the way home from school.  So I need to get in better shape!  And I need to challenge my son to do a good part of it under his own power!!

                     

                    Justina

                     

                     




                    --
                    liza mattana
                    http://www.pedals2people.org
                    spokane, wa
                  • brian pink
                    ... we just need a custom x for that thing. hm...
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jun 14, 2007
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                      >i know this is an extracycle discussion group, and we love our x for hauling
                      >stuff, but we bought a used bike friday tandem this year for biking with our
                      >four-year-old daughter. here's a picture:

                      we just need a custom x for that thing. hm...
                    • Justina Voulgaris
                      That s an impressive commute, David! Interesting thoughts about the disk brakes. Oh, so many choices… Those kids sure grow up quickly, don t they? Won t be
                      Message 10 of 19 , Jun 14, 2007
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                        That's an impressive commute, David!  

                         

                        Interesting thoughts about the disk brakes.  Oh, so many choices…

                         

                        Those kids sure grow up quickly, don't they?  Won't be long before my son is as tall as me.  Then he can haul me up the hill!

                         

                        Justina

                         


                        From: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com [mailto:rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Chase
                        Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 5:26 AM
                        To: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [rootsradicals] Thanks, Brian, & what kind of ride

                         


                        To compare rides, my morning commute is:

                        http://www.bikely. com/maps/ bike-path/ Belmont-Burlingt on-commute- over-
                        the-hill

                        I've never carried a kid over a hill like the big one in that
                        commute; I have carried a kid up about 100 feet of hill, and it was
                        not that bad. That big hill, I don't much like it on the return
                        because the home side is skinny, a little curvy, and a little steeper.

                        Which brings me to speed. You, plus a good-sized load, can generate
                        a lot of speed coming downhill, and I've only carried well-behaved
                        (non-human, non-towed) loads faster than 25 mph. On my commute side,
                        my peak coasting speed is about 31 mph on the less steep side, and 36
                        mph on the steep side. You might really want disk brakes -- you can
                        dump an incredible hunk of heat into them, and they work in the wet
                        (mine squeal like crazy when wet, but they do stop). And speed is
                        fun, but you're not very well protected on a bike, and auto drivers
                        seem to be surprised by a bike moving faster than 15 mph.

                        Also figure, your son will not be 9 forever. By the time you're in
                        shape to haul a 9-year old, he'll be 10, and a little while later he
                        will be big enough to pedal himself. 11 is a little young for
                        traffic, but somewhere between there and 13, he'll almost certainly
                        be old enough for supervised rides (I rode my first century when I
                        was 13; my middle child went on an unauthorized 2-hour solo
                        "excellent adventure" recently -- his sense of direction is (ahem)
                        still developing.)

                      • Justina Voulgaris
                        Thanks for sharing how well the tandems are working for you both. Cute picture, Lisa! Funny, before we had a kid, my husband was trying to get me to ride
                        Message 11 of 19 , Jun 14, 2007
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                          Thanks for sharing how well the tandems are working for you both.  Cute picture, Lisa!

                           

                          Funny, before we had a kid, my husband was trying to get me to ride tandem with him, but I always refused.  Stubborn independent streak in me, I guess.   Now I've got a kid with that same quality, who didn't like the trail-a-bike (which I called trailer-bike in my first post) because he wanted to be in control! 

                           

                          My son learned to ride a 2-wheeler when he was 4 ½ (we skipped training wheels and I taught him on a really small bike on which his feet could always touch the ground).  A month after he learned, he blew out a tire by speeding down hills and then screeching to a stop.  My little speed demon.  So for the past 5 years, I've been like a drill sergeant when we ride together.  He rides in front of me on the sidewalk, and I quiz him on what he needs to do and be thinking about as we approach intersections, pedestrians, wet leaves, etc.  We talk a lot about what the automobile drivers are thinking about (not us, most likely) and how to make sure we have their attention.  I hope it will all sink in…

                           

                          Justina

                        • Derek Pearson
                          I don t see any appeal in tandems, especially for what they cost. When he gets too big to ride on the back, make him take you to school. Get a nice pad for the
                          Message 12 of 19 , Jun 14, 2007
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                            I don't see any appeal in tandems, especially for what they cost. When he gets too big to ride on the back, make him take you to school. Get a nice pad for the
                            back and catch up on your reading while he takes you up the hill in the mornings :)

                            ----- Original Message ----
                            From: Justina Voulgaris <jvoulgaris1@...>
                            To: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 10:56:42 AM
                            Subject: [rootsradicals] Thanks, Alex and Lisa, & tandems, teaching kids

                            Thanks for sharing how well the tandems are working for you both.  Cute picture, Lisa!

                             

                            Funny, before we had a kid, my husband was trying to get me to ride tandem with him, but I always refused.  Stubborn independent streak in me, I guess.   Now I've got a kid with that same quality, who didn't like the trail-a-bike (which I called trailer-bike in my first post) because he wanted to be in control! 

                             

                            My son learned to ride a 2-wheeler when he was 4 ½ (we skipped training wheels and I taught him on a really small bike on which his feet could always touch the ground).  A month after he learned, he blew out a tire by speeding down hills and then screeching to a stop.  My little speed demon.  So for the past 5 years, I've been like a drill sergeant when we ride together.  He rides in front of me on the sidewalk, and I quiz him on what he needs to do and be thinking about as we approach intersections, pedestrians, wet leaves, etc.  We talk a lot about what the automobile drivers are thinking about (not us, most likely) and how to make sure we have their attention.  I hope it will all sink in…

                             

                            Justina




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                          • Justina Voulgaris
                            What a wonderful image! _____ From: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com [mailto:rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Derek Pearson Sent: Thursday, June 14,
                            Message 13 of 19 , Jun 14, 2007
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                              What a wonderful image!


                              From: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com [mailto:rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Derek Pearson
                              Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 11:09 AM
                              To: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [rootsradicals] Thanks, Alex and Lisa, & tandems, teaching kids

                               

                              When he gets too big to ride on the back, make him take you to school. Get a nice pad for the
                              back and catch up on your reading while he takes you up the hill in the mornings :)

                               

                            • Bruce Alan Wilson
                              At 4 9 , he s tall enough to be the stoker on a tandem. Bruce Alan Wilson The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man. Other forms of transport
                              Message 14 of 19 , Jun 14, 2007
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                                Re:intro & Q re: hauling bigger kid and his bike

                                At 4'9", he's tall enough to be the stoker on a tandem.

                                Bruce Alan Wilson

                                "The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man.  Other forms of transport grow daily more nightmarish.  Only the bicycle remains pure in heart."--Iris Murdoch

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