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Many thanks, TomA & thoughts on electric

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  • alligator33333
    I did check out your photos. I like your set-up. My son is probably too big for the PeaPod, so he would have to be sitting on the deck side- saddle, I m
    Message 1 of 19 , Jun 13, 2007
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      I did check out your photos. I like your set-up. My son is probably
      too big for the PeaPod, so he would have to be sitting on the deck
      side- saddle, I'm guessing, if his bike was on one side. We have a
      Yakima car rack with that bike rack you have on your X, so I could use
      that.

      Electric assist: part of me thinks that I'll get back into shape
      faster if I don't have an electric assist, but the other part thinks
      that I'll use the bike more often if I do, so I'll get back into shape
      faster that way. Any thoughts?!

      I'll try to get down to Aaron's Bike Shop this weekend!

      Thanks again,
      Justina
    • Derek Pearson
      Hi Justina, I don t know how much a 9 year old weighs, but my first reaction is that it is very doable. I ve found with the xtracycle, if there is a will,
      Message 2 of 19 , Jun 13, 2007
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        Hi Justina,

        I don't know how much a 9 year old weighs, but my first reaction is that it is very doable.
        I've found with the xtracycle, if there is a will, there is a way :)

        In addition to the utility that it brings, the xtracycle is the best fun you will ever have on your bike :)
        I've got lots of photos of loads hauled, xtracycled bikes etc if you've got time to kill

        http://www.bikerubbish.com

        Definitely go in for a test ride, you'll love it.

        D




        ----- Original Message ----
        From: alligator33333 <jvoulgaris1@...>
        To: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 11:57:12 AM
        Subject: [rootsradicals] intro & Q re: hauling bigger kid and his bike

        I just learned about Xtracycle in a Co-op America newsletter, then did
        some additional researching about it on the Internet. WOW! I'm
        really intrigued. I'll try to get down to Aaron's Bike Shop soon to
        check them out live (I'm in the Seattle area).

        I've got a great trailer (Cycle Tote), but my son has long grown out
        of the kid-seat setup, and trailers aren't fun on sidewalks where I
        ride with my son. We need to be on the sidewalks because so many
        roads around my area have traffic that is too fast and/or heavy to be
        safe, even with bike lanes. (I rode for years in New York City, so
        I'm a road warrior. But having been hit by a car once, in the suburbs
        no less, I don't want a repeat of that experience, especially now that
        I'm a parent). Even my husband bikes on the sidewalks in many places.

        My son didn't like the trailer-bike, preferring to be on his own bike.
        I didn't like it either, with my small frame bike (I'm 5'3") and his
        squirming around. The trailer-bike didn't bother my husband too much
        (he's 5'11" and so rides a much larger frame), but as I said, our son
        likes his independence! A friend of mine has an attachment that can
        link the child's bike to the parent's bike (Tail-gator? or something
        like that), but my son is now too big for that.

        So, I'd love to do more cycling (errands, taking my son to school,
        maybe some touring). My son is an enthusiastic bicyclist, but rides
        hard for a brief time and then poops out. Which leads me to my
        question: can I realistically haul my 9 year old (who is 4'5" and
        growing fast) plus his bike (which has 20" wheels, but soon will
        graduate to 24")? If so, what kind of distances are we talking about?
        His school is 7 miles away, flat except for a killer hill at the last
        mile. Presumably he will ride some portion of that, but let's say he
        isn't feeling well when I pick him up at the end of the day.
        Shopping/library/ etc is 2 hilly miles away. If I'm hauling him and
        his bike, will I also be able to carry other stuff, like some library
        books or a bag of groceries?

        Many thanks!!
        Justina




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      • alligator33333
        My 9 year old weights about 70 lbs, all muscle, and growing fast! Of course, it is my hope that the bigger and stronger he gets, the more time he will spend
        Message 3 of 19 , Jun 13, 2007
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          My 9 year old weights about 70 lbs, all muscle, and growing fast! Of
          course, it is my hope that the bigger and stronger he gets, the more
          time he will spend on his own bike! But in the meantime, the more we
          are using bikes in any configuration, the better.

          Enjoyed your photos.

          Justina
        • Derek Pearson
          No problems on the back then :) Have fun! ... From: alligator33333 To: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007
          Message 4 of 19 , Jun 13, 2007
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            No problems on the back then :) Have fun!



            ----- Original Message ----
            From: alligator33333 <jvoulgaris1@...>
            To: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 2:24:31 PM
            Subject: [rootsradicals] Thanks, Derek

            My 9 year old weights about 70 lbs, all muscle, and growing fast! Of
            course, it is my hope that the bigger and stronger he gets, the more
            time he will spend on his own bike! But in the meantime, the more we
            are using bikes in any configuration, the better.

            Enjoyed your photos.

            Justina




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          • David Chase
            ... I am bigger, and I think that may matter. ... On 2 miles of flat ground, it is absolutely no problem to haul a child of about that size, and a bicycle, and
            Message 5 of 19 , Jun 13, 2007
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              On 2007-06-13, at 2:57 PM, alligator33333 wrote:
              > I didn't like it either, with my small frame bike (I'm 5'3") and his
              > squirming around.
              I am bigger, and I think that may matter.
              > Which leads me to my
              > question: can I realistically haul my 9 year old (who is 4'5" and
              > growing fast) plus his bike (which has 20" wheels, but soon will
              > graduate to 24")? If so, what kind of distances are we talking about?
              > His school is 7 miles away, flat except for a killer hill at the last
              > mile. Presumably he will ride some portion of that, but let's say he
              > isn't feeling well when I pick him up at the end of the day.
              > Shopping/library/etc is 2 hilly miles away. If I'm hauling him and
              > his bike, will I also be able to carry other stuff, like some library
              > books or a bag of groceries?
              On 2 miles of flat ground, it is absolutely no problem to haul a
              child of about that size,
              and a bicycle, and a bag or two of groceries. For 7 miles, or with
              hill, especially a killer hill, you will definitely feel like you are
              working hard. On the other hand, if you are willing to downshift and
              take your time, you can probably do it.

              How big a hill is it? You can plot your commute on Bikely to figure
              out how many feet you climb, and roughly how steep it is.

              Here's how I did it with my daughter.

              http://ph.groups.yahoo.com/group/rootsradicals/photos/view/9967?
              b=1&m=f&o=0
            • brian pink
              ... I have to concur with this. Ride your route with some weight. I have some killer hills, and I ride an old Gary Fisher + FreeRadical + Burley D Lite. They
              Message 6 of 19 , Jun 13, 2007
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                >On 2 miles of flat ground, it is absolutely no problem to haul a child
                >of about that size, and a bicycle, and a bag or two of groceries. For
                >7 miles, or with hill, especially a killer hill, you will definitely
                >feel like you are working hard. On the other hand, if you are willing
                >to downshift and take your time, you can probably do it.

                I have to concur with this. Ride your route with some weight. I
                have some killer hills, and I ride an old Gary Fisher +
                FreeRadical + Burley D'Lite. They suck for sure, but what
                matters to you? For me, the car-free nursery school trips mean a
                lot, so is the ride an ideal one? No. But I get there, and it
                could be worse. For all these questions about "is it doable?" I
                think the answer, as Derek said, is "Yes." But you might have to
                really want it. If you do, the Xtracycle is a freakin gem.

                - brian
              • Justina Voulgaris
                Looks like your method for towing the bike lets the kid sit astride rather than side-saddle, which might be more comfortable for my passenger for longer hauls.
                Message 7 of 19 , Jun 13, 2007
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                  Looks like your method for towing the bike lets the kid sit astride rather than side-saddle, which might be more comfortable for my passenger for longer hauls.

                   

                  I'd never heard of Bikely before.  What a fun site!  I determined that my "killer" hill is about 7% grade for half a mile in the middle of a mile and a half of uphill (overall about 5%).  And that's at the end of the 7 miles on the way home from school.  So I need to get in better shape!  And I need to challenge my son to do a good part of it under his own power!!

                   

                  Justina

                   

                   

                • Justina Voulgaris
                  I like using bikes for utilitarian purposes, so I m not looking for an ideal ride. I need to get back into shape, I don t like going to the gym, I want to get
                  Message 8 of 19 , Jun 13, 2007
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                    I like using bikes for utilitarian purposes, so I'm not looking for an ideal ride.  I need to get back into shape, I don't like going to the gym, I want to get more cars off the road, I want my son to grow up using his bike for transportation as well as recreation.  My son is with me a lot (he attends an alternative school part-time) so my biking usually needs to include him.  Sounds like the Xtracycle could help make that happen more often.  

                     

                    Justina

                     

                    From: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com [mailto:rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of brian pink
                    Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 7:52 PM
                    To: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [rootsradicals] intro & Q re: hauling bigger kid and his bike

                    I have to concur with this. Ride your route with some weight. I
                    have some killer hills, and I ride an old Gary Fisher +
                    FreeRadical + Burley D'Lite. They suck for sure, but what
                    matters to you? For me, the car-free nursery school trips mean a
                    lot, so is the ride an ideal one? No. But I get there, and it
                    could be worse. For all these questions about "is it doable?" I
                    think the answer, as Derek said, is "Yes." But you might have to
                    really want it. If you do, the Xtracycle is a freakin gem.

                    - brian

                  • David Chase
                    To compare rides, my morning commute is: http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Belmont-Burlington-commute-over- the-hill I ve never carried a kid over a hill
                    Message 9 of 19 , Jun 14, 2007
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                      To compare rides, my morning commute is:

                      http://www.bikely.com/maps/bike-path/Belmont-Burlington-commute-over-
                      the-hill

                      I've never carried a kid over a hill like the big one in that
                      commute; I have carried a kid up about 100 feet of hill, and it was
                      not that bad. That big hill, I don't much like it on the return
                      because the home side is skinny, a little curvy, and a little steeper.

                      Which brings me to speed. You, plus a good-sized load, can generate
                      a lot of speed coming downhill, and I've only carried well-behaved
                      (non-human, non-towed) loads faster than 25 mph. On my commute side,
                      my peak coasting speed is about 31 mph on the less steep side, and 36
                      mph on the steep side. You might really want disk brakes -- you can
                      dump an incredible hunk of heat into them, and they work in the wet
                      (mine squeal like crazy when wet, but they do stop). And speed is
                      fun, but you're not very well protected on a bike, and auto drivers
                      seem to be surprised by a bike moving faster than 15 mph.

                      Also figure, your son will not be 9 forever. By the time you're in
                      shape to haul a 9-year old, he'll be 10, and a little while later he
                      will be big enough to pedal himself. 11 is a little young for
                      traffic, but somewhere between there and 13, he'll almost certainly
                      be old enough for supervised rides (I rode my first century when I
                      was 13; my middle child went on an unauthorized 2-hour solo
                      "excellent adventure" recently -- his sense of direction is (ahem)
                      still developing.)

                      > I like using bikes for utilitarian purposes, so I'm not looking for
                      > an ideal ride. I need to get back into shape, I don't like going
                      > to the gym, I want to get more cars off the road, I want my son to
                      > grow up using his bike for transportation as well as recreation.
                      > My son is with me a lot (he attends an alternative school part-
                      > time) so my biking usually needs to include him. Sounds like the
                      > Xtracycle could help make that happen more often.
                    • alexbknight
                      Hi, I know we are all into Xtracycles in this group, but maybe a tandem is a better configuration for your needs? YOu would need to think about how many
                      Message 10 of 19 , Jun 14, 2007
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                        Hi,
                        I know we are all into Xtracycles in this group, but maybe a tandem
                        is a better configuration for your needs? YOu would need to think
                        about how many groceries you want to carry, but it sounds like he
                        could be a lot of help with you riding for the whole trip rather than
                        a dead weight, plus he'll be learning about how you ride in traffic.
                        You can get "kiddie kranks" to fit a tandem which mean you don't need
                        to buy a specialist tandem with a small rear frame.

                        Riding on your own, shouldn't mean much more weight than an xtracycle
                        bike.

                        I have two young children so I am getting into the configuration you
                        mention, but at some point I assume they'll outgrow that and I am
                        planning to go to the tandem solution.

                        http://www.tandem-club.org.uk/ might have more information on this.

                        Alex

                        --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "alligator33333"
                        <jvoulgaris1@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I just learned about Xtracycle in a Co-op America newsletter, then
                        did
                        > some additional researching about it on the Internet. WOW! I'm
                        > really intrigued. I'll try to get down to Aaron's Bike Shop soon to
                        > check them out live (I'm in the Seattle area).
                        >
                        > I've got a great trailer (Cycle Tote), but my son has long grown out
                        > of the kid-seat setup, and trailers aren't fun on sidewalks where I
                        > ride with my son. We need to be on the sidewalks because so many
                        > roads around my area have traffic that is too fast and/or heavy to
                        be
                        > safe, even with bike lanes. (I rode for years in New York City, so
                        > I'm a road warrior. But having been hit by a car once, in the
                        suburbs
                        > no less, I don't want a repeat of that experience, especially now
                        that
                        > I'm a parent). Even my husband bikes on the sidewalks in many
                        places.
                        >
                        > My son didn't like the trailer-bike, preferring to be on his own
                        bike.
                        > I didn't like it either, with my small frame bike (I'm 5'3") and
                        his
                        > squirming around. The trailer-bike didn't bother my husband too
                        much
                        > (he's 5'11" and so rides a much larger frame), but as I said, our
                        son
                        > likes his independence! A friend of mine has an attachment that can
                        > link the child's bike to the parent's bike (Tail-gator? or something
                        > like that), but my son is now too big for that.
                        >
                        > So, I'd love to do more cycling (errands, taking my son to school,
                        > maybe some touring). My son is an enthusiastic bicyclist, but rides
                        > hard for a brief time and then poops out. Which leads me to my
                        > question: can I realistically haul my 9 year old (who is 4'5" and
                        > growing fast) plus his bike (which has 20" wheels, but soon will
                        > graduate to 24")? If so, what kind of distances are we talking
                        about?
                        > His school is 7 miles away, flat except for a killer hill at the
                        last
                        > mile. Presumably he will ride some portion of that, but let's say he
                        > isn't feeling well when I pick him up at the end of the day.
                        > Shopping/library/etc is 2 hilly miles away. If I'm hauling him and
                        > his bike, will I also be able to carry other stuff, like some
                        library
                        > books or a bag of groceries?
                        >
                        > Many thanks!!
                        > Justina
                        >
                      • liza mattana
                        hey justina, i know this is an extracycle discussion group, and we love our x for hauling stuff, but we bought a used bike friday tandem this year for biking
                        Message 11 of 19 , Jun 14, 2007
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                          hey justina,

                          i know this is an extracycle discussion group, and we love our x for hauling stuff, but we bought a used bike friday tandem this year for biking with our four-year-old daughter. here's a picture:
                          http://bp2.blogger.com/_CGYQGxEMolw/RhvPh-C-MNI/AAAAAAAAAQ0/nkts6Ha_ZWw/s1600-h/P1020960.JPG

                          the biggest factors that made us go with a tandem over the xtracycle (or other attachment like a trail a bike)
                          1--kiddo can participate and help with some much needed pedal power :)
                          2--she learns how to operatate her own bike for the future (pedaling, coasting down hills, leaning to initiate a turn, etc)
                          3--it'll grow as our daughter grows (we can still ride this bike together when she's a teen), and overtime we can build up to longer rides and tours

                          so far, it's a great solution for our family. it basically takes the place of a car for errands, trips to school, getting around town. just another option to think about.

                          liza


                          On 6/13/07, Justina Voulgaris <jvoulgaris1@...> wrote:

                          Looks like your method for towing the bike lets the kid sit astride rather than side-saddle, which might be more comfortable for my passenger for longer hauls.

                           

                          I'd never heard of Bikely before.  What a fun site!  I determined that my "killer" hill is about 7% grade for half a mile in the middle of a mile and a half of uphill (overall about 5%).  And that's at the end of the 7 miles on the way home from school.  So I need to get in better shape!  And I need to challenge my son to do a good part of it under his own power!!

                           

                          Justina

                           

                           




                          --
                          liza mattana
                          http://www.pedals2people.org
                          spokane, wa
                        • brian pink
                          ... we just need a custom x for that thing. hm...
                          Message 12 of 19 , Jun 14, 2007
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                            >i know this is an extracycle discussion group, and we love our x for hauling
                            >stuff, but we bought a used bike friday tandem this year for biking with our
                            >four-year-old daughter. here's a picture:

                            we just need a custom x for that thing. hm...
                          • Justina Voulgaris
                            That s an impressive commute, David! Interesting thoughts about the disk brakes. Oh, so many choices… Those kids sure grow up quickly, don t they? Won t be
                            Message 13 of 19 , Jun 14, 2007
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                              That's an impressive commute, David!  

                               

                              Interesting thoughts about the disk brakes.  Oh, so many choices…

                               

                              Those kids sure grow up quickly, don't they?  Won't be long before my son is as tall as me.  Then he can haul me up the hill!

                               

                              Justina

                               


                              From: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com [mailto:rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of David Chase
                              Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 5:26 AM
                              To: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [rootsradicals] Thanks, Brian, & what kind of ride

                               


                              To compare rides, my morning commute is:

                              http://www.bikely. com/maps/ bike-path/ Belmont-Burlingt on-commute- over-
                              the-hill

                              I've never carried a kid over a hill like the big one in that
                              commute; I have carried a kid up about 100 feet of hill, and it was
                              not that bad. That big hill, I don't much like it on the return
                              because the home side is skinny, a little curvy, and a little steeper.

                              Which brings me to speed. You, plus a good-sized load, can generate
                              a lot of speed coming downhill, and I've only carried well-behaved
                              (non-human, non-towed) loads faster than 25 mph. On my commute side,
                              my peak coasting speed is about 31 mph on the less steep side, and 36
                              mph on the steep side. You might really want disk brakes -- you can
                              dump an incredible hunk of heat into them, and they work in the wet
                              (mine squeal like crazy when wet, but they do stop). And speed is
                              fun, but you're not very well protected on a bike, and auto drivers
                              seem to be surprised by a bike moving faster than 15 mph.

                              Also figure, your son will not be 9 forever. By the time you're in
                              shape to haul a 9-year old, he'll be 10, and a little while later he
                              will be big enough to pedal himself. 11 is a little young for
                              traffic, but somewhere between there and 13, he'll almost certainly
                              be old enough for supervised rides (I rode my first century when I
                              was 13; my middle child went on an unauthorized 2-hour solo
                              "excellent adventure" recently -- his sense of direction is (ahem)
                              still developing.)

                            • Justina Voulgaris
                              Thanks for sharing how well the tandems are working for you both. Cute picture, Lisa! Funny, before we had a kid, my husband was trying to get me to ride
                              Message 14 of 19 , Jun 14, 2007
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                                Thanks for sharing how well the tandems are working for you both.  Cute picture, Lisa!

                                 

                                Funny, before we had a kid, my husband was trying to get me to ride tandem with him, but I always refused.  Stubborn independent streak in me, I guess.   Now I've got a kid with that same quality, who didn't like the trail-a-bike (which I called trailer-bike in my first post) because he wanted to be in control! 

                                 

                                My son learned to ride a 2-wheeler when he was 4 ½ (we skipped training wheels and I taught him on a really small bike on which his feet could always touch the ground).  A month after he learned, he blew out a tire by speeding down hills and then screeching to a stop.  My little speed demon.  So for the past 5 years, I've been like a drill sergeant when we ride together.  He rides in front of me on the sidewalk, and I quiz him on what he needs to do and be thinking about as we approach intersections, pedestrians, wet leaves, etc.  We talk a lot about what the automobile drivers are thinking about (not us, most likely) and how to make sure we have their attention.  I hope it will all sink in…

                                 

                                Justina

                              • Derek Pearson
                                I don t see any appeal in tandems, especially for what they cost. When he gets too big to ride on the back, make him take you to school. Get a nice pad for the
                                Message 15 of 19 , Jun 14, 2007
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                                  I don't see any appeal in tandems, especially for what they cost. When he gets too big to ride on the back, make him take you to school. Get a nice pad for the
                                  back and catch up on your reading while he takes you up the hill in the mornings :)

                                  ----- Original Message ----
                                  From: Justina Voulgaris <jvoulgaris1@...>
                                  To: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 10:56:42 AM
                                  Subject: [rootsradicals] Thanks, Alex and Lisa, & tandems, teaching kids

                                  Thanks for sharing how well the tandems are working for you both.  Cute picture, Lisa!

                                   

                                  Funny, before we had a kid, my husband was trying to get me to ride tandem with him, but I always refused.  Stubborn independent streak in me, I guess.   Now I've got a kid with that same quality, who didn't like the trail-a-bike (which I called trailer-bike in my first post) because he wanted to be in control! 

                                   

                                  My son learned to ride a 2-wheeler when he was 4 ½ (we skipped training wheels and I taught him on a really small bike on which his feet could always touch the ground).  A month after he learned, he blew out a tire by speeding down hills and then screeching to a stop.  My little speed demon.  So for the past 5 years, I've been like a drill sergeant when we ride together.  He rides in front of me on the sidewalk, and I quiz him on what he needs to do and be thinking about as we approach intersections, pedestrians, wet leaves, etc.  We talk a lot about what the automobile drivers are thinking about (not us, most likely) and how to make sure we have their attention.  I hope it will all sink in…

                                   

                                  Justina




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                                • Justina Voulgaris
                                  What a wonderful image! _____ From: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com [mailto:rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Derek Pearson Sent: Thursday, June 14,
                                  Message 16 of 19 , Jun 14, 2007
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                                    What a wonderful image!


                                    From: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com [mailto:rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Derek Pearson
                                    Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 11:09 AM
                                    To: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: [rootsradicals] Thanks, Alex and Lisa, & tandems, teaching kids

                                     

                                    When he gets too big to ride on the back, make him take you to school. Get a nice pad for the
                                    back and catch up on your reading while he takes you up the hill in the mornings :)

                                     

                                  • Bruce Alan Wilson
                                    At 4 9 , he s tall enough to be the stoker on a tandem. Bruce Alan Wilson The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man. Other forms of transport
                                    Message 17 of 19 , Jun 14, 2007
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                                      Re:intro & Q re: hauling bigger kid and his bike

                                      At 4'9", he's tall enough to be the stoker on a tandem.

                                      Bruce Alan Wilson

                                      "The bicycle is the most civilized conveyance known to man.  Other forms of transport grow daily more nightmarish.  Only the bicycle remains pure in heart."--Iris Murdoch

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