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Re: [rootsradicals] Shimano 29er Cassette

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  • Sam Knight
    I have not used the cassette, but I have read that Shimano is releasing revised hubs that are specifically designed to support the higher torque on the freehub
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 1, 2010
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      I have not used the cassette, but I have read that Shimano is releasing revised hubs that are specifically designed to support the higher torque on the freehub that pawls are subjected to by that cassette.  A few people at the MTBR.com 29er forum have reported destroying the internals of the freehubs with the 36t cassettes on 29er wheels.  I would imagine that a loaded 26" wheel might have similar issues with some of the lighter hubs.  Doesn't seem like that 1 gear inch of difference would make a huge change, but apparently it's enough to get you near the edge of the design strength.

      -Sam

      On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 3:50 AM, Rich <astronut1001@...> wrote:
       

      Any BD owner experimented with this? It is a 12-36 tooth 9 speed cassette. The BD standard cassette, 11-34, seems like the 11 tooth sprocket is pretty useless on a cargo bike as it gives about a 113" high. The 29er cassette still gives a 104" high which seems more than adequate for a longtail unless going downhill unloaded as fast as possible.

      The 36 tooth large sprocket should also give a slightly lower low gear, 19" versus 20".

      Harris Cyclery and Niagara both list it as in stock.

      Rich Wood

    • Rich
      Sam; Interesting information. So the old Suntour freewheels were apparently stronger than some current Shimano freehubs! IIRC Suntour used to offer a 38T
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 1, 2010
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        Sam;

        Interesting information. So the old Suntour freewheels were apparently stronger than some current Shimano freehubs! IIRC Suntour used to offer a 38T sprocket for their freewheels and made at least one derailleur that worked with that monster of a sprocket. Used by touring bike riders seeking the ultimate low gear before the days of MTB cranks that could take 20T chainrings.

        Rich Wood


        --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, Sam Knight <knightscape@...> wrote:
        >
        > I have not used the cassette, but I have read that Shimano is releasing
        > revised hubs that are specifically designed to support the higher torque on
        > the freehub that pawls are subjected to by that cassette. A few people at
        > the MTBR.com 29er forum have reported destroying the internals of the
        > freehubs with the 36t cassettes on 29er wheels. I would imagine that a
        > loaded 26" wheel might have similar issues with some of the lighter hubs.
        > Doesn't seem like that 1 gear inch of difference would make a huge change,
        > but apparently it's enough to get you near the edge of the design strength.
        >
        > -Sam
        >
        > On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 3:50 AM, Rich <astronut1001@...> wrote:
        >
        > >
        > >
        > > Any BD owner experimented with this? It is a 12-36 tooth 9 speed cassette.
        > > The BD standard cassette, 11-34, seems like the 11 tooth sprocket is pretty
        > > useless on a cargo bike as it gives about a 113" high. The 29er cassette
        > > still gives a 104" high which seems more than adequate for a longtail unless
        > > going downhill unloaded as fast as possible.
        > >
        > > The 36 tooth large sprocket should also give a slightly lower low gear, 19"
        > > versus 20".
        > >
        > > Harris Cyclery and Niagara both list it as in stock.
        > >
        > > Rich Wood
        > >
        >
      • Pete Beers
        Here s where some MTB tandem experience helps. I don t know what Shimano plans to do to their freehubs. Hopefully it will work. If you re building a wheel
        Message 3 of 9 , Feb 1, 2010
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          Here's where some MTB tandem experience helps.  I don't know what Shimano plans to do to their freehubs.  Hopefully it will work.  If you're building a wheel with the intent of using one of these cogsets, I'd suggest going with a rear hub that is tandem rated.  My personal favorites are the White Industries and Chris King (with the steel freehub body).  Yes, they are expensive.  They'll also won't let you down.

          Ride on!

          On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 3:42 PM, Rich <astronut1001@...> wrote:
           

          Sam;

          Interesting information. So the old Suntour freewheels were apparently stronger than some current Shimano freehubs! IIRC Suntour used to offer a 38T sprocket for their freewheels and made at least one derailleur that worked with that monster of a sprocket. Used by touring bike riders seeking the ultimate low gear before the days of MTB cranks that could take 20T chainrings.


        • Andrew
          Am I missing something, I can t see where the extra torque comes from. 26 wheel 2.1 tyre with 22 front 34 rear gives a 17 gear. 29 wheel 2.1 tyre with 22
          Message 4 of 9 , Feb 1, 2010
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            Am I missing something, I can't see where the extra torque comes from. 26" wheel 2.1" tyre with 22 front 34 rear gives a 17" gear.
            29" wheel 2.1" tyre with 22 front 36 rear gives a 17.5" gear.

            I thought the idea of 36t rear was to give 29ers availability of same ratios as 26ers.

            It would make sense if it 36t on 26" wheel giving problems as that would be a little lower / higher torque gear.

            Still i guess if folk in the field are breaking the hubs then they do need to be improved.
          • Andrew Kreps
            ... I use my 11 once in a while, when I hit a long downhill and I get the need for speed. That Big Dummy handles like a champ in the twisties.
            Message 5 of 9 , Feb 1, 2010
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              On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 12:50 AM, Rich <astronut1001@...> wrote:
              Any BD owner experimented with this?  It is a 12-36 tooth 9 speed cassette.  The BD standard cassette, 11-34, seems like the 11 tooth sprocket is pretty useless on a cargo bike

              I use my 11 once in a while, when I hit a long downhill and I get the need for speed.   That Big Dummy handles like a champ in the twisties.  


            • Rich
              Andrew; Torque the hub is subjected to is directly related to the front chainring to rear sprocket ratio with the same force applied to the crankset. This is
              Message 6 of 9 , Feb 1, 2010
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                Andrew;

                Torque the hub is subjected to is directly related to the front chainring to rear sprocket ratio with the same force applied to the crankset. This is the reason why NuVinci, SRAM and Rohloff all specify minimum input ratios their hubs should be subjected to and presumably why Shimano states that one change to the latest Nexus and Alfine 8 speed hubs is some type of torque limiter internally.

                The increase in ratio, and torque, in this case is only about 6% but it sounds like it is the straw that breaks the camel's back.

                Be interesting to know what models of Shimano hubs have had problems.

                Rich Wood


                --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "Andrew" <hemingandrew@...> wrote:
                >
                > Am I missing something, I can't see where the extra torque comes from. 26" wheel 2.1" tyre with 22 front 34 rear gives a 17" gear.
                > 29" wheel 2.1" tyre with 22 front 36 rear gives a 17.5" gear.
                >
                > I thought the idea of 36t rear was to give 29ers availability of same ratios as 26ers.
                >
                > It would make sense if it 36t on 26" wheel giving problems as that would be a little lower / higher torque gear.
                >
                > Still i guess if folk in the field are breaking the hubs then they do need to be improved.
                >
              • joel
                ... Before anyone goes out and experiments bear in mind that you will need a one of the new shimano Shadow style derailers to use one of these (or maybe an
                Message 7 of 9 , Feb 2, 2010
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                  On Mon, 2010-02-01 at 08:50 +0000, Rich wrote:
                  >
                  > Any BD owner experimented with this? It is a 12-36 tooth 9 speed
                  > cassette. The BD standard cassette, 11-34, seems like the 11 tooth
                  > sprocket is pretty useless on a cargo bike as it gives about a 113"
                  > high. The 29er cassette still gives a 104" high which seems more than
                  > adequate for a longtail unless going downhill


                  Before anyone goes out and experiments bear in mind that you will need a
                  one of the new shimano 'Shadow' style derailers to use one of these (or
                  maybe an old Suntour Alpine GT) your standard long arm MTB rear mech
                  won't shift it properly.

                  Cheers

                  Joel
                • Galen Fitzpatrick
                  Harris cyclery says they have tried other derailleurs with zero problems. -Galen
                  Message 8 of 9 , Feb 2, 2010
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                    Harris cyclery says they have tried other derailleurs with zero problems.

                    -Galen

                    On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 6:10 AM, joel <joel@...> wrote:
                     

                    On Mon, 2010-02-01 at 08:50 +0000, Rich wrote:
                    >
                    > Any BD owner experimented with this? It is a 12-36 tooth 9 speed
                    > cassette. The BD standard cassette, 11-34, seems like the 11 tooth
                    > sprocket is pretty useless on a cargo bike as it gives about a 113"
                    > high. The 29er cassette still gives a 104" high which seems more than
                    > adequate for a longtail unless going downhill

                    Before anyone goes out and experiments bear in mind that you will need a
                    one of the new shimano 'Shadow' style derailers to use one of these (or
                    maybe an old Suntour Alpine GT) your standard long arm MTB rear mech
                    won't shift it properly.

                    Cheers

                    Joel


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