Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [rootsradicals] Internally Geared Hubs

Expand Messages
  • Neil Walsh
    I think if you want to haul heavy loads and run an IGH then you only have two choices : Nuvinci CVT or Rohloff Speedhub. Neil
    Message 1 of 19 , Dec 24, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      I think if you want to haul heavy loads and run an IGH then you only have two choices : Nuvinci CVT or Rohloff Speedhub.

      Neil

      On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 12:00 AM, <kest918@...> wrote:
       

      Hi Roots, my name is Mike and I've been lurking for awhile around here. I've owned two different Freerads in the past two yrs and now am buying a Big Dummy! Its coming in on Monday.
      My question is about internally geared hubs. Who's riding them and what's your impressions. The Rohloff is way out of my price range. does anyone have any experience with Sturmey Archer's 8 speed? Or any other's for that matter? Interested in what the cargo carriers have to say.
      Thanks, Mike


    • speedub_nate
      ... I d have to go back and research this, but my recollection is that the fluid in the hub must become a friction medium when it s compressed between each
      Message 2 of 19 , Dec 24, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, kest918@... wrote:

        > My question is about internally geared hubs. Who's riding them and what's your impressions. The Rohloff is way out of my price range. does anyone have any experience with Sturmey Archer's 8 speed? Or any other's for that matter? Interested in what the cargo carriers have to say.

        I asked Fallbrook about their Nuvinci two Decembers ago, and this is the reply I received:

        > Q: "Is the original Nuvinci (not the N171T) suitable for tandem use? I've read some Fallbrook literature quoting somebody saying "try it on a tandem," but I haven't seen anything official in the specs giving that use a thumbs up."

        > A (from Scott @ Fallbrook): "The current hub on the market is not designed for tandems. However, we are finalizing plans for the tandem model and production is scheduled to begin shortly after the first of the year."

        I'd have to go back and research this, but my recollection is that the fluid in the hub must become a friction medium when it's compressed between each ball and the tracks it rolls on, and as torque increases, friction increases. I don't think it would actually "break" if overloaded.

        That said, my new Nuvinci hub arrived yesterday and I'll be installing it on my Free Radical soon -- it seems there are enough examples of Nuvincis installed on Free Rads and Big Dummies that it ought not be a problem. Of course, I don't know how heavily loaded those bikes are running.

        I'd also try a Shimano Alfine, if you can find one. They've been proving to be durable to off-road abuse -- mainly standing climbing and dust, and not heavy loads. It shifts well and runs near silent. In fact, I bought one for this bike, but had a change of heart (plus it was only 32H), but I think I'll replace my wife's SRAM Spectro 7 with it.

        Other hubs? Older Nexus models are gritty and draggy. Not sure about the current batch, including the red stripe version (may be the same as the Alfine). SRAM's older Spectro downshift poorly. Their newer i9 is a well behaved, quiet model (I use one on a folder) but they break down off road so I wouldn't bother testing one heavily loaded.

        Rohloff, of course, is king. We use one on our tandem and have them on the mountain bikes. But I agree, they're expensive at the outset (but pay for themselves over time), and the huge gearing range may be overkill for urban riding. My biggest hesitation to Rohloff in this application is that my cargo bike will be more exposed to the possibility of theft, and I don't want to risk a hub that costs as much as the rest of the bike.

        That all said, if you installed a Speedhub, you'd do your once-a-year oil change and otherwise never have a single maintenance worry. My oldest began using in 2001 and it's still going strong, not so much as a peep of trouble from it, exclusively used on the dirt.
      • Jeff Snavely
        Late to the party here, but we put a Nuvinci on my wife s dummy and all I hate it. If it were my bike I would have pulled it off the first day. Then again, I m
        Message 3 of 19 , Dec 24, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          Late to the party here, but we put a Nuvinci on my wife's dummy and all I hate it. If it were my bike I would have pulled it off the first day.

          Then again, I'm not a fan of internal hubs all around. I feel that I have to go out of my way to release tension on the pedals to shift - much moreso than any other IGH I have ridden.

          The idea was to make things easier for my wife. She doesn't have a problem with the Shimano hub, but the Nuvinci seems to cause more of a problem.





          On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 12:10 PM, speedub_nate <speedub.nate@...> wrote:
           



          --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, kest918@... wrote:

          > My question is about internally geared hubs. Who's riding them and what's your impressions. The Rohloff is way out of my price range. does anyone have any experience with Sturmey Archer's 8 speed? Or any other's for that matter? Interested in what the cargo carriers have to say.

          I asked Fallbrook about their Nuvinci two Decembers ago, and this is the reply I received:

          > Q: "Is the original Nuvinci (not the N171T) suitable for tandem use? I've read some Fallbrook literature quoting somebody saying "try it on a tandem," but I haven't seen anything official in the specs giving that use a thumbs up."

          > A (from Scott @ Fallbrook): "The current hub on the market is not designed for tandems. However, we are finalizing plans for the tandem model and production is scheduled to begin shortly after the first of the year."

          I'd have to go back and research this, but my recollection is that the fluid in the hub must become a friction medium when it's compressed between each ball and the tracks it rolls on, and as torque increases, friction increases. I don't think it would actually "break" if overloaded.

          That said, my new Nuvinci hub arrived yesterday and I'll be installing it on my Free Radical soon -- it seems there are enough examples of Nuvincis installed on Free Rads and Big Dummies that it ought not be a problem. Of course, I don't know how heavily loaded those bikes are running.

          I'd also try a Shimano Alfine, if you can find one. They've been proving to be durable to off-road abuse -- mainly standing climbing and dust, and not heavy loads. It shifts well and runs near silent. In fact, I bought one for this bike, but had a change of heart (plus it was only 32H), but I think I'll replace my wife's SRAM Spectro 7 with it.

          Other hubs? Older Nexus models are gritty and draggy. Not sure about the current batch, including the red stripe version (may be the same as the Alfine). SRAM's older Spectro downshift poorly. Their newer i9 is a well behaved, quiet model (I use one on a folder) but they break down off road so I wouldn't bother testing one heavily loaded.

          Rohloff, of course, is king. We use one on our tandem and have them on the mountain bikes. But I agree, they're expensive at the outset (but pay for themselves over time), and the huge gearing range may be overkill for urban riding. My biggest hesitation to Rohloff in this application is that my cargo bike will be more exposed to the possibility of theft, and I don't want to risk a hub that costs as much as the rest of the bike.

          That all said, if you installed a Speedhub, you'd do your once-a-year oil change and otherwise never have a single maintenance worry. My oldest began using in 2001 and it's still going strong, not so much as a peep of trouble from it, exclusively used on the dirt.


        • Sean Moore
          My Shimano (non red-band) Nexus seems to be losing 5th gear, the gear I ve used the most. Not very happy with it but I suppose since I ve checked it s
          Message 4 of 19 , Dec 24, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            My Shimano (non red-band) Nexus seems to be losing 5th gear, the gear I've used the most.  Not very happy with it but I suppose since I've checked it's adjustment it's time to take it to a bike shop or dig into Sheldon's site and try to diagnose it myself.

            --
            Sean Moore
            moore.sean@...


            On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 10:34 AM, Jeff Snavely <jsnavely@...> wrote:
             

            Late to the party here, but we put a Nuvinci on my wife's dummy and all I hate it. If it were my bike I would have pulled it off the first day.

            Then again, I'm not a fan of internal hubs all around. I feel that I have to go out of my way to release tension on the pedals to shift - much moreso than any other IGH I have ridden.

            The idea was to make things easier for my wife. She doesn't have a problem with the Shimano hub, but the Nuvinci seems to cause more of a problem.







            On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 12:10 PM, speedub_nate <speedub.nate@...> wrote:
             



            --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, kest918@... wrote:

            > My question is about internally geared hubs. Who's riding them and what's your impressions. The Rohloff is way out of my price range. does anyone have any experience with Sturmey Archer's 8 speed? Or any other's for that matter? Interested in what the cargo carriers have to say.

            I asked Fallbrook about their Nuvinci two Decembers ago, and this is the reply I received:

            > Q: "Is the original Nuvinci (not the N171T) suitable for tandem use? I've read some Fallbrook literature quoting somebody saying "try it on a tandem," but I haven't seen anything official in the specs giving that use a thumbs up."

            > A (from Scott @ Fallbrook): "The current hub on the market is not designed for tandems. However, we are finalizing plans for the tandem model and production is scheduled to begin shortly after the first of the year."

            I'd have to go back and research this, but my recollection is that the fluid in the hub must become a friction medium when it's compressed between each ball and the tracks it rolls on, and as torque increases, friction increases. I don't think it would actually "break" if overloaded.

            That said, my new Nuvinci hub arrived yesterday and I'll be installing it on my Free Radical soon -- it seems there are enough examples of Nuvincis installed on Free Rads and Big Dummies that it ought not be a problem. Of course, I don't know how heavily loaded those bikes are running.

            I'd also try a Shimano Alfine, if you can find one. They've been proving to be durable to off-road abuse -- mainly standing climbing and dust, and not heavy loads. It shifts well and runs near silent. In fact, I bought one for this bike, but had a change of heart (plus it was only 32H), but I think I'll replace my wife's SRAM Spectro 7 with it.

            Other hubs? Older Nexus models are gritty and draggy. Not sure about the current batch, including the red stripe version (may be the same as the Alfine). SRAM's older Spectro downshift poorly. Their newer i9 is a well behaved, quiet model (I use one on a folder) but they break down off road so I wouldn't bother testing one heavily loaded.

            Rohloff, of course, is king. We use one on our tandem and have them on the mountain bikes. But I agree, they're expensive at the outset (but pay for themselves over time), and the huge gearing range may be overkill for urban riding. My biggest hesitation to Rohloff in this application is that my cargo bike will be more exposed to the possibility of theft, and I don't want to risk a hub that costs as much as the rest of the bike.

            That all said, if you installed a Speedhub, you'd do your once-a-year oil change and otherwise never have a single maintenance worry. My oldest began using in 2001 and it's still going strong, not so much as a peep of trouble from it, exclusively used on the dirt.



          • speedub_nate
            ... I don t know... are Nexus hubs servicable other than lube? Or are they disposable once the gears begin to go?
            Message 5 of 19 , Dec 24, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, Sean Moore <moore.sean@...> wrote:

              > My Shimano (non red-band) Nexus seems to be losing 5th gear, the gear I've
              > used the most. Not very happy with it but I suppose since I've checked it's
              > adjustment it's time to take it to a bike shop or dig into Sheldon's site
              > and try to diagnose it myself.

              I don't know... are Nexus hubs servicable other than lube? Or are they disposable once the gears begin to go?
            • speedub_nate
              ... Not knowing the specifics of your setup, could it be partly attributed to excess cable friction? I know with the Speedhub, the shifting action is very
              Message 6 of 19 , Dec 24, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Snavely <jsnavely@...> wrote:

                > Late to the party here, but we put a Nuvinci on my wife's dummy and all I
                > hate it. If it were my bike I would have pulled it off the first day.
                >
                > Then again, I'm not a fan of internal hubs all around. I feel that I have to
                > go out of my way to release tension on the pedals to shift - much moreso
                > than any other IGH I have ridden.
                >
                > The idea was to make things easier for my wife. She doesn't have a problem
                > with the Shimano hub, but the Nuvinci seems to cause more of a problem.

                Not knowing the specifics of your setup, could it be partly attributed to excess cable friction? I know with the Speedhub, the shifting action is very sensitive to cable friction, so it's important to avoid bends in the housing as much as possible. Straight top tube to seat stay or downtube to chainstay with the gentlest of bends makes a huge difference.

                I've test rode 3 Nuvincis under generally flat conditions and found the shifting OK, but the three full twists is a little annoying. I hope I can learn to live with that, and that hills aren't too much of a shifting problem.
              • todd
                I agree that Rohloff and Nuvinci are best choices, but would also include Shimano Nexus 8, red band type or Alfine as reasonable choices if the gear range is
                Message 7 of 19 , Dec 28, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  I agree that Rohloff and Nuvinci are best choices, but would also include Shimano Nexus 8, red band type or Alfine as reasonable choices if the gear range is adequate for your loads and terrain.

                  We've sold many hundreds of Nexus 8 equipped utility bikes in Portland over the last couple years and seen a very, very low rate of trouble, even with the 100-lb bakfiets and its huge cargo capacity. They are perhaps not as durable as the wider ranging, heavier, much more expensive alternatives you cite. Maintenance is dipping them every 3-5K miles and keeping shift cable well adjusted, lubed. See http://www.flickr.com/photos/cleverchimp/3226985688/in/set-72157617657316613/ and adjacent.

                  I'd say a Rohloff is overkill 98% of the time, but then, I own 2 with no regrets, the first since 1999.

                  My Nuvinci feels like it might never, ever require any service apart from shifter/cables, but I'm not a fan of the feel; there's a strain relief feature that means you're pedaling into a spring, so it feels rather sluggish to me.

                  On the chain tension and chain line topic, as it concerns IGHs and the Kickback center stand, Terracycle is now making an idler kit we're finding pretty great so far; there's a Freerad flavor too: http://www.flickr.com/photos/cleverchimp/4222517995/

                  --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, Neil Walsh <walsh.neil@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I think if you want to haul heavy loads and run an IGH then you only have
                  > two choices : Nuvinci CVT or Rohloff Speedhub.
                  >
                  > Neil
                  >
                  > On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 12:00 AM, <kest918@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Hi Roots, my name is Mike and I've been lurking for awhile around here.
                  > > I've owned two different Freerads in the past two yrs and now am buying a
                  > > Big Dummy! Its coming in on Monday.
                  > > My question is about internally geared hubs. Who's riding them and what's
                  > > your impressions. The Rohloff is way out of my price range. does anyone have
                  > > any experience with Sturmey Archer's 8 speed? Or any other's for that
                  > > matter? Interested in what the cargo carriers have to say.
                  > > Thanks, Mike
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                • Andrew Kreps
                  ... Out of curiosity, when you say overkill, are you referring to the overall gear ratio, the cost, or something else?
                  Message 8 of 19 , Dec 28, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 3:13 PM, todd <todd@...> wrote:

                    I'd say a Rohloff is overkill 98% of the time, but then, I own 2 with no regrets, the first since 1999.


                    Out of curiosity, when you say overkill, are you referring to the overall gear ratio, the cost, or something else? 


                  • todd
                    ... take your pick! i just mean that in a large majority of cases, a lesser and much less expensive drivetrain will meet people s needs. for this trip we had
                    Message 9 of 19 , Dec 28, 2009
                    • 0 Attachment
                      --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Kreps <andrew.kreps@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > On Mon, Dec 28, 2009 at 3:13 PM, todd <todd@...> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > I'd say a Rohloff is overkill 98% of the time, but then, I own 2 with no
                      > > regrets, the first since 1999.
                      > >
                      > Out of curiosity, when you say overkill, are you referring to the overall
                      > gear ratio, the cost, or something else?

                      take your pick! i just mean that in a large majority of cases, a lesser and much less expensive drivetrain will meet people's needs.

                      for this trip we had both rohloff and nexus-8 -equipped bikes: http://clevercycles.com/?p=238 . both did fine. the rohloff was able to outrun the nexus after the latter ran out of gears on the descents, and there were some brief really steep climbs where the rohloff's bottom gears were welcome though hardly necessary.

                      not knocking the rohloff at all: it's the best, and what you want if you mean to push the envelope into extremes, or just demand a broad functional margin. it's just that it's not the _only_ reasonable choice alongside the Nuvinci for a heavy hauler.
                    • Sean Moore
                      Whoops, might be that lousy bike mechanic who installed my freerad (me) instead of the IGH failing. I just checked the adjustment again and it was, in fact
                      Message 10 of 19 , Dec 30, 2009
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Whoops, might be that lousy bike mechanic who installed my freerad (me) instead of the IGH failing.  I just checked the adjustment again and it was, in fact out of adjustment.  The cable is probably slipping or may be stretching.  I've put enough miles on the rig to think that any stretch should be done by now but truthfully I rarely shift, it's pretty flat here.  I coulda had a three speed!

                        I also note that my last message was 6 days ago... that means it's been nearly a week since I've ridden it.  Boo!  I need snow tires, I suppose.  They don't plow very much of my errand route and since it's been cold we have packed snow and ice on the roads.  Normally the snow melts away within days around here.

                        --
                        Sean Moore
                        moore.sean@...


                        On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 2:27 PM, Sean Moore <moore.sean@...> wrote:
                        My Shimano (non red-band) Nexus seems to be losing 5th gear, the gear I've used the most.  Not very happy with it but I suppose since I've checked it's adjustment it's time to take it to a bike shop or dig into Sheldon's site and try to diagnose it myself.

                        --
                        Sean Moore
                        moore.sean@...



                        On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 10:34 AM, Jeff Snavely <jsnavely@...> wrote:
                         

                        Late to the party here, but we put a Nuvinci on my wife's dummy and all I hate it. If it were my bike I would have pulled it off the first day.

                        Then again, I'm not a fan of internal hubs all around. I feel that I have to go out of my way to release tension on the pedals to shift - much moreso than any other IGH I have ridden.

                        The idea was to make things easier for my wife. She doesn't have a problem with the Shimano hub, but the Nuvinci seems to cause more of a problem.







                        On Thu, Dec 24, 2009 at 12:10 PM, speedub_nate <speedub.nate@...> wrote:
                         



                        --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, kest918@... wrote:

                        > My question is about internally geared hubs. Who's riding them and what's your impressions. The Rohloff is way out of my price range. does anyone have any experience with Sturmey Archer's 8 speed? Or any other's for that matter? Interested in what the cargo carriers have to say.

                        I asked Fallbrook about their Nuvinci two Decembers ago, and this is the reply I received:

                        > Q: "Is the original Nuvinci (not the N171T) suitable for tandem use? I've read some Fallbrook literature quoting somebody saying "try it on a tandem," but I haven't seen anything official in the specs giving that use a thumbs up."

                        > A (from Scott @ Fallbrook): "The current hub on the market is not designed for tandems. However, we are finalizing plans for the tandem model and production is scheduled to begin shortly after the first of the year."

                        I'd have to go back and research this, but my recollection is that the fluid in the hub must become a friction medium when it's compressed between each ball and the tracks it rolls on, and as torque increases, friction increases. I don't think it would actually "break" if overloaded.

                        That said, my new Nuvinci hub arrived yesterday and I'll be installing it on my Free Radical soon -- it seems there are enough examples of Nuvincis installed on Free Rads and Big Dummies that it ought not be a problem. Of course, I don't know how heavily loaded those bikes are running.

                        I'd also try a Shimano Alfine, if you can find one. They've been proving to be durable to off-road abuse -- mainly standing climbing and dust, and not heavy loads. It shifts well and runs near silent. In fact, I bought one for this bike, but had a change of heart (plus it was only 32H), but I think I'll replace my wife's SRAM Spectro 7 with it.

                        Other hubs? Older Nexus models are gritty and draggy. Not sure about the current batch, including the red stripe version (may be the same as the Alfine). SRAM's older Spectro downshift poorly. Their newer i9 is a well behaved, quiet model (I use one on a folder) but they break down off road so I wouldn't bother testing one heavily loaded.

                        Rohloff, of course, is king. We use one on our tandem and have them on the mountain bikes. But I agree, they're expensive at the outset (but pay for themselves over time), and the huge gearing range may be overkill for urban riding. My biggest hesitation to Rohloff in this application is that my cargo bike will be more exposed to the possibility of theft, and I don't want to risk a hub that costs as much as the rest of the bike.

                        That all said, if you installed a Speedhub, you'd do your once-a-year oil change and otherwise never have a single maintenance worry. My oldest began using in 2001 and it's still going strong, not so much as a peep of trouble from it, exclusively used on the dirt.




                      • phaedrus at yahoo
                        A few years back, I noticed that I was having lots of trouble with the Nexus 8 hub on my freerad.  I d adjust it nearly daily, but within 20 or 30 minutes of
                        Message 11 of 19 , Dec 30, 2009
                        • 0 Attachment
                          A few years back, I noticed that I was having lots of trouble with the
                          Nexus 8 hub on my freerad.  I'd adjust it nearly daily, but within 20
                          or 30 minutes of riding, it was slipping again.

                          Then I realized that I was adjusting it in my warm office and riding
                          it at temps in the single digits or below zero (fahrenheit) and that
                          the cable or housing lengths might be changing and at different rates.

                          When I started making the adjustments in my cold garage, it did a lot
                          better, although given that one day I might be riding at 30 degrees
                          and a couple days later, its 15 below zero, I still had some issues.

                          - phaedrus

                          On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 3:04 PM, Sean Moore <moore.sean@...> wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > Whoops, might be that lousy bike mechanic who installed my freerad (me) instead of the IGH failing.  I just checked the adjustment again and it was, in fact out of adjustment.  The cable is probably slipping or may be stretching.  I've put enough miles on the rig to think that any stretch should be done by now but truthfully I rarely shift, it's pretty flat here.  I coulda had a three speed!
                          >
                          > I also note that my last message was 6 days ago... that means it's been nearly a week since I've ridden it.  Boo!  I need snow tires, I suppose.  They don't plow very much of my errand route and since it's been cold we have packed snow and ice on the roads.  Normally the snow melts away within days around here.
                          > --
                          > Sean Moore
                          > moore.sean@...
                          >
                          >
                        • Sean Moore
                          This is a very good thing to know. Thanks. -- Sean Moore moore.sean@gmail.com
                          Message 12 of 19 , Dec 30, 2009
                          • 0 Attachment
                            This is a very good thing to know.  Thanks.

                            --
                            Sean Moore
                            moore.sean@...


                            On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 2:55 PM, phaedrus at yahoo <yahoo@...> wrote:
                             

                            A few years back, I noticed that I was having lots of trouble with the
                            Nexus 8 hub on my freerad.  I'd adjust it nearly daily, but within 20
                            or 30 minutes of riding, it was slipping again.

                            Then I realized that I was adjusting it in my warm office and riding
                            it at temps in the single digits or below zero (fahrenheit) and that
                            the cable or housing lengths might be changing and at different rates.

                            When I started making the adjustments in my cold garage, it did a lot
                            better, although given that one day I might be riding at 30 degrees
                            and a couple days later, its 15 below zero, I still had some issues.

                            - phaedrus



                            On Wed, Dec 30, 2009 at 3:04 PM, Sean Moore <moore.sean@...> wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Whoops, might be that lousy bike mechanic who installed my freerad (me) instead of the IGH failing.  I just checked the adjustment again and it was, in fact out of adjustment.  The cable is probably slipping or may be stretching.  I've put enough miles on the rig to think that any stretch should be done by now but truthfully I rarely shift, it's pretty flat here.  I coulda had a three speed!
                            >
                            > I also note that my last message was 6 days ago... that means it's been nearly a week since I've ridden it.  Boo!  I need snow tires, I suppose.  They don't plow very much of my errand route and since it's been cold we have packed snow and ice on the roads.  Normally the snow melts away within days around here.
                            > --
                            > Sean Moore
                            > moore.sean@...
                            >
                            >


                          • Rich
                            I have a NuVinci hub I installed on a 1990 Trek 950 MTB I picked up cheap locally at Goodwill for $60. I find the 400 degrees of twist shifter rotation to go
                            Message 13 of 19 , Jan 21, 2010
                            • 0 Attachment
                              I have a NuVinci hub I installed on a 1990 Trek 950 MTB I picked up cheap locally at Goodwill for $60. I find the 400 degrees of twist shifter rotation to go from low to high, or vice versa, annoying too. An interesting riding experience though and the complete NuVinci rear wheel was something that the LBS sold me at dealer cost so overall the bike was relatively cheap and I still have all the parts needed to return it to stock derailleur operation.

                              I bought the bike thinking I might put a FreeRadical on it but instead I am picking up my Big Dummy on Saturday, Reno weather permitting. Who knows the Trek still might see such a conversion. I suspect that something like the old Trek 950 Lugged steel frame is close to an ideal FreeRadical conversion candidate, particularly at the price I got it for.

                              Rich Wood


                              --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, "speedub_nate" <speedub.nate@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, Jeff Snavely <jsnavely@> wrote:
                              >
                              > > Late to the party here, but we put a Nuvinci on my wife's dummy and all I
                              > > hate it. If it were my bike I would have pulled it off the first day.
                              > >
                              > > Then again, I'm not a fan of internal hubs all around. I feel that I have to
                              > > go out of my way to release tension on the pedals to shift - much moreso
                              > > than any other IGH I have ridden.
                              > >
                              > > The idea was to make things easier for my wife. She doesn't have a problem
                              > > with the Shimano hub, but the Nuvinci seems to cause more of a problem.
                              >
                              > Not knowing the specifics of your setup, could it be partly attributed to excess cable friction? I know with the Speedhub, the shifting action is very sensitive to cable friction, so it's important to avoid bends in the housing as much as possible. Straight top tube to seat stay or downtube to chainstay with the gentlest of bends makes a huge difference.
                              >
                              > I've test rode 3 Nuvincis under generally flat conditions and found the shifting OK, but the three full twists is a little annoying. I hope I can learn to live with that, and that hills aren't too much of a shifting problem.
                              >
                            • Zoe Neal
                              Could a person use an inline travel agent (the kind for using canti levers with disc brakes) with a Nuvinci hub to reduce the amound of twisting needed to
                              Message 14 of 19 , Jan 22, 2010
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Could a person use an inline travel agent (the kind for using canti levers with disc brakes) with a Nuvinci hub to reduce the amound of twisting needed to shift?  How much cable (in mm) do the nuvinci shifters pull?  I suppose if it is too much a travel agent woldn't work, you would need something with larger pulleys. 
                                 
                                I'm considering investing in a stokemonkey, and I hear the nuvinci is a hub better suited to withstand the extra forces (I currenly ride a Nexus 8 red band).  The shifting sounds like a turnoff though.
                              • Rich
                                The NuVinci shifter uses a dual cable pull-pull arrangement with no return spring for either cable. This is basically similar to the Rohloff shifting
                                Message 15 of 19 , Jan 23, 2010
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  The NuVinci shifter uses a dual cable pull-pull arrangement with no return spring for either cable. This is basically similar to the Rohloff shifting arrangement which also uses dual cables running to a grip shifter for shifting.

                                  I will have to check my NuVinci documentation but I suspect that is is more cable pull than the approximately 96mm required by the Rohloff hub. Another hub with a lot of cable pull required for shifting over the full range is the SRAM iM9. Jtek investigated doing a bar end shifter for it but the required cable pull was a killer, in the 75mm range IIRC.

                                  Rich Wood


                                  --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, Zoe Neal <zoeneal@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > Could a person use an inline travel agent (the kind for using canti levers
                                  > with disc brakes) with a Nuvinci hub to reduce the amound of twisting needed
                                  > to shift? How much cable (in mm) do the nuvinci shifters pull? I suppose
                                  > if it is too much a travel agent woldn't work, you would need something with
                                  > larger pulleys.
                                  >
                                  > I'm considering investing in a stokemonkey, and I hear the nuvinci is a hub
                                  > better suited to withstand the extra forces (I currenly ride a Nexus 8 red
                                  > band). The shifting sounds like a turnoff though.
                                  >
                                Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.