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Re: [rootsradicals] Re: Rims, hubs, brakes for Big Dummy?

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  • Andrew Kreps
    ... I ve used two different Shimano hydraulic calipers on the back of my Big Dummy, and I haven t had any issues. One of the nicest things about hydros is
    Message 1 of 23 , Nov 2, 2009
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      On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 4:38 PM, philip_b_chase <philipbchase@...> wrote:
      > There are some issues with the BB7 in the rear.  The outer pad adjuster will drill a hole in
      > your freeloader if you don't have something to separate the two or reinforce the freeloader.

      I've used two different Shimano hydraulic calipers on the back of my
      Big Dummy, and I haven't had any issues. One of the nicest things
      about hydros is that they're self-adjusting.


      > Unloaded, the backend of an Xtracycle skitters all around in braking.  The long tail shifts
      > so much weight forward the unloaded X drives like an unloaded pick up truck.  So you'll
      > use the front almost exclusively when unloaded.

      I've only ever ridden the Big Dummy type of Xtracycle, but I've never
      had this problem. Using only the front brake on a bike like this puts
      a lot of stress in the head tube area, and can cause problems down the
      road. I wonder if the problem here lies in the frame geometry? It
      sound like the rider's weight may be placed too far forward.
    • Andrew Kreps
      ... Xtracycle recommends a 203 in the back due to heat shedding issues. I rode about 1300 miles with a pair of 160 s on my Big Dummy, and I never had an
      Message 2 of 23 , Nov 2, 2009
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        On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Doug Van Cleve <dvancleve@...> wrote:

         Any reason not to go 200 up front and 180 in back? Seems like all things being equal the bigger rotors will last longer if nothing else.


        Xtracycle recommends a 203 in the back due to heat shedding issues.  I rode about 1300 miles with a pair of 160's on my Big Dummy, and I never had an issue.  I did a fair amount of (relatively) extreme riding with it, including a number of off-road downhill sections that I was riding the brakes on.  

         
        Hubs (assuming discs): 6-bolt or Centerlock? What is available that is good and in the price range of XT (or less :^) or should I just stick with XT?


        I just upgraded from the 6 bolt version to the Centerlock and I have to say that Centerlock is very, very easy to install.  No fumbling with small hex bolts and locktite, and the newest version of it uses the same cassette lockring removal tool you probably already have.  

        The downside: Hubs are few and far between, comparatively.  While it's very easy to find a discount on a 6-bolt version, you'll probably pay a little bit more for the Centerlock version.  Is it worth it?  For my money, I say yes.  


      • Devian Gilbert
        on the BD, a 203 Avid rotor is not an issue in the front what is somewhat of an issue is... the caliper adaptor, for the rear wheel. that is... the 203 caliper
        Message 3 of 23 , Nov 2, 2009
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          on the BD, a 203 Avid rotor is not an issue in the front
          what is somewhat of an issue is...
          the caliper adaptor, for the rear wheel.
          that is... the 203 caliper adaptor is tall enough to make getting an allen wrench into position a bit of a pain
          specifically the allen bolts for the centering position.
          that is, the bolts which are used to center the caliper.

          so use a 185mm rotor on the rear.
          203mm up front works fine.

          the deal is leverage
          not so much heat dissipation 
          it aint NASCAR

          in my experience, smaller rotors burn up pads faster.
          especially if you compare a 160mm rotor to a 203
          organic pads to metallic 

          typically I use metallic pads
          right now, I've got a set of Disco Brake 3xLife Ceramic pads.... uh... they are "ok"
          when they wear out, I'm back to either Avid metallic or EBC Gold.

          it really depends on how much weight and how much hill you are dealing with.
          20mph on a long steep descent, with 100lbs of cargo... probably want big brakes.

          riding around with cases of toilet paper, on flat city streets... probably can get away with smaller rotors.

          heck... i think kona specs their ute with 160's on a 700c wheel
          thats a lot of wheel leverage with little brake leverage.
          so go figure uh?

          personally i use 26" DH wheels and big rotors.

          as to weight distribution.
          nominally speaking, a traditional bike is 30%(f) 70%(r)
          on the BD is more like 50/50
          attention the section, re:  suspension 

          here's the link for the BD PDF

          as to stress on the headtube... I've opted to use a CK SteelSet... probably a standard headset is fine.
          I've yet to hear of someone breaking a BD.

          2 cent ramble... off

          peace...d





          "Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the human race." H.G. Wells



          On Nov 2, 2009, at 2:14 PM, Andrew Kreps wrote:


          On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Doug Van Cleve <dvancleve@yahoo. com> wrote:

           Any reason not to go 200 up front and 180 in back? Seems like all things being equal the bigger rotors will last longer if nothing else.


          Xtracycle recommends a 203 in the back due to heat shedding issues.  I rode about 1300 miles with a pair of 160's on my Big Dummy, and I never had an issue.  I did a fair amount of (relatively) extreme riding with it, including a number of off-road downhill sections that I was riding the brakes on.  

           
          Hubs (assuming discs): 6-bolt or Centerlock? What is available that is good and in the price range of XT (or less :^) or should I just stick with XT?


          I just upgraded from the 6 bolt version to the Centerlock and I have to say that Centerlock is very, very easy to install.  No fumbling with small hex bolts and locktite, and the newest version of it uses the same cassette lockring removal tool you probably already have.  

          The downside: Hubs are few and far between, comparative ly.  While it's very easy to find a discount on a 6-bolt version, you'll probably pay a little bit more for the Centerlock version.  Is it worth it?  For my money, I say yes.  




        • Rick Pickett
          ... You might be able to get a 185mm on a Big Dummy, but we d love to see a 185mm on a FreeRadical. Cheers, Rick Melancholy is incompatible with bicycling.
          Message 4 of 23 , Nov 2, 2009
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            On Nov 2, 2009, at 2:57 PM, Devian Gilbert wrote:

            so use a 185mm rotor on the rear.
            203mm up front works fine.

            You might be able to get a 185mm on a Big Dummy, but we'd love to see a 185mm on a FreeRadical.

            Cheers,
            Rick


            "Melancholy is incompatible with bicycling."  – James E. Starrs

            artistic shenaniganizer | rick@...
            888.537-1401 x709 | every day adventure


          • Devian Gilbert
            ??? strange http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rootsradicals/photos/album/353565063/pic/177869854/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=41&count=20&dir=asc this
            Message 5 of 23 , Nov 2, 2009
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              ???
              strange
              this is the convert job i had used for a couple of years, it had a 203 on the rear.

              when i built the BD i used the same parts
              the 203 for the rear of the BD fit, but for ease of mechanical repair while not in the shop, 
              i chose 185

              here's the pic of 203 on the BD


              "Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the human race." H.G. Wells



              On Nov 2, 2009, at 3:36 PM, Rick Pickett wrote:


              On Nov 2, 2009, at 2:57 PM, Devian Gilbert wrote:

              so use a 185mm rotor on the rear.
              203mm up front works fine.

              You might be able to get a 185mm on a Big Dummy, but we'd love to see a 185mm on a FreeRadical.

              Cheers,
              Rick


              "Melancholy is incompatible with bicycling."  – James E. Starrs

              artistic shenaniganizer | rick@xtracycle. com
              888.537-1401 x709 | every day adventure




            • philip_b_chase
              ... Yeah my memories with this were with a X on my wife s old frame. That frame was a bit small for me. I m on a BD now and don t recall having this problem
              Message 6 of 23 , Nov 2, 2009
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                --- In rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Kreps <andrew.kreps@...> wrote:
                >
                > On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 4:38 PM, philip_b_chase <philipbchase@...> wrote:
                ...
                > > Unloaded, the backend of an Xtracycle skitters all around in braking.  The long tail shifts
                > > so much weight forward the unloaded X drives like an unloaded pick up truck.  So you'll
                > > use the front almost exclusively when unloaded.
                >
                > I've only ever ridden the Big Dummy type of Xtracycle, but I've never
                > had this problem. Using only the front brake on a bike like this puts
                > a lot of stress in the head tube area, and can cause problems down the
                > road. I wonder if the problem here lies in the frame geometry? It
                > sound like the rider's weight may be placed too far forward.

                Yeah my memories with this were with a X on my wife's old frame. That frame was a bit small for me. I'm on a BD now and don't recall having this problem with it, but I rarely ride it empty either, so I can't say I have good comparative data.

                Suffice to say, weight in the rear enhances track and improves load distribution. When I do extreme braking with heavy load the rear tire doesn't lock up. It's *never* happened.

                As to excessive head tube stress, I'm not worried. When the bike is light in the rear I'm more concerned the backend grip the pavement during braking than with the long term health of my headset. Besides I bet the headset load is way higher when I have to slam on both brakes when my cargo has double the mass I have to stop.

                Philip
              • Drew
                A buddy of mine at one of my local shops posted his experience returning kegs. http://www.velocult.com/index.php/blog/post/hauling_two_kegs_with_a_bicycle/ He
                Message 7 of 23 , Nov 3, 2009
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                  A buddy of mine at one of my local shops posted his experience returning kegs.
                  http://www.velocult.com/index.php/blog/post/hauling_two_kegs_with_a_bicycle/

                  He really pushes commuting here in San Diego.
                  I need to get him in the test ride list. they'll lend you one for a couple of days to try out.

                  http://www.velocult.com
                  http://wwwsdbikecommuter.com

                • Steve Lange
                  ... That s rad, but it s important to note the kegs were empty. In my experience with an Xtracycle to date, trying to haul two full kegs (or an equivalent
                  Message 8 of 23 , Nov 3, 2009
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                    On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 2:07 PM, Drew <shringara2@...> wrote:

                    A buddy of mine at one of my local shops posted his experience returning kegs.
                    http://www.velocult.com/index.php/blog/post/hauling_two_kegs_with_a_bicycle/

                    He really pushes commuting here in San Diego.
                    I need to get him in the test ride list. they'll lend you one for a couple of days to try out. 

                    That's rad, but it's important to note the kegs were empty. In my experience with an Xtracycle to date, trying to haul two full kegs (or an equivalent weight) would really be pushing it... Maybe on a Big Dummy, but almost certainly not on an Xtracycle. It would be noodle-city.

                    That said, I'll be happy to be proven wrong! Sadly my days of needing to get two full kegs anywhere are long since over.

                    Steve

                  • Andrew Kreps
                    ... Wikipedia states that filled to capacity, a quarter/pony keg weighs around 90lbs, and a full size keg weighs between 140 and 170 lbs. The weight alone
                    Message 9 of 23 , Nov 3, 2009
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                      On Tue, Nov 3, 2009 at 3:17 PM, Steve Lange <steve@...> wrote:

                      That's rad, but it's important to note the kegs were empty. In my experience with an Xtracycle to date, trying to haul two full kegs (or an equivalent weight) would really be pushing it... Maybe on a Big Dummy, but almost certainly not on an Xtracycle. It would be noodle-city.


                      Wikipedia states that filled to capacity, a quarter/pony keg weighs around 90lbs, and a full size keg weighs between 140 and 170 lbs.  The weight alone would cause issues, but you also have liquid sloshing around in there...a recipe for disaster.  Or at least a fun youtube clip.

                      Dig the self-portrait!


                    • Bill
                      best use yet...... 830 446 3114 - asynchronous communication
                      Message 10 of 23 , Nov 3, 2009
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                        best use yet......

                        830 446 3114 -  asynchronous communication

                      • Rick Pickett
                        For those seeking full-keg relief: http://www.xtracyclegallery.com/2009/03/311-xtracycle-sidekeg.html ... the garage and 1 keg. Sad days. Melancholy is
                        Message 11 of 23 , Nov 3, 2009
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                          For those seeking full-keg relief:

                          http://www.xtracyclegallery.com/2009/03/311-xtracycle-sidekeg.html

                          :D .  The first party I threw in San Diego consisted of 6 co-workers, the garage and 1 keg. Sad days.

                          "Melancholy is incompatible with bicycling."  – James E. Starrs

                          artistic shenaniganizer | rick@...
                          888.537-1401 x709 | every day adventure





                          On Nov 3, 2009, at 10:38 PM, Bill wrote:

                           

                          best use yet......


                          830 446 3114 -  asynchronous communication



                        • Liz W. Durham
                          Awesome photo! So, is that rigger up like a sidecar so to speak? From: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com [mailto:rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick
                          Message 12 of 23 , Nov 4, 2009
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                            Awesome photo! So, is that rigger up like a sidecar so to speak?

                             

                             

                            From: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com [mailto:rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Rick Pickett
                            Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2009 12:59 AM
                            To: rootsradicals@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [rootsradicals] 2 kegs 1 bike

                             

                             

                            For those seeking full-keg relief:

                             

                            http://www.xtracyclegallery.com/2009/03/311-xtracycle-sidekeg.html

                             

                            :D .  The first party I threw in San Diego consisted of 6 co-workers, the garage and 1 keg. Sad days.

                             

                            "Melancholy is incompatible with bicycling."  – James E. Starrs

                             

                            artistic shenaniganizer | rick@...

                            888.537-1401 x709 | every day adventure

                             

                             

                             

                             

                            On Nov 3, 2009, at 10:38 PM, Bill wrote:



                             

                            best use yet......


                            830 446 3114 -  asynchronous communication

                             

                             

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