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Re: [romconlang] RE: Exonyms for fictional places in constructed and natural languages

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  • Padraic Brown
    ... I d thought so, but wasn t perfectly certain. ... (Sorry for the wrong spelling!) Terra illorum Sarorum - the genitive causes nasal mutation, hence the
    Message 1 of 5 , Apr 16 8:12 PM
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      --- On Tue, 3/30/10, James Campbell (zolid.com) <kraamlep@...> wrote:

      >Padraic eskrë »

      >> >Kerno: ?
      >>
      >> Is Jameld part of IB? Both the names "Alsace" and "Saar" seem
      >> to be current in IB, and would probably be rendered as l'
      >> Alsas and il Sarrow respectively.
      >>
      >> If they were speaking of a different reality, probably Ter y
      >> nZrourres.
      >
      >No, Jameld/Zuraaland are not part of IB, they're in their own alternative
      >reality where everything else is the same as *here*.

      I'd thought so, but wasn't perfectly certain.

      >What's the etymology of
      >the gloriously exotic-looking "Ter y nZourres" (apart, of course, from >the first word, which is obvious :-)

      (Sorry for the wrong spelling!)

      Terra illorum Sarorum -> the genitive causes nasal mutation, hence the odd "n". The -orum gets replaced with a more conventional and levelled
      plural ending -es. Eventually, the mutation itself gets dropped from the
      spoken language (though not from the spelling), so you end up with
      something that sounds like "terry zore".

      Nasal mutation has the effect of voicing a voiceless consonant:

      le ngatte me ouezem /l@ gat mi wED@m/ = the cat I see

      where the nominative of cat is il cats /Il kat/. An unusual word order
      inversion there. Usually, you'd encounter it VSO rather than OSV. I
      suspect this reflects some kind of topic emphasis that the usual word
      order doesn't quite convey. Note also the accusative-nominative
      pronoun. Kind of like how we'd say "Me, I see the cat."

      What's interesting is that the people themselves do have a genitive plural
      form: lor Saror that seems to have evaded the nasal mutation that
      otherwise would have affected it. This form is only very rarely met with
      in the modern language. You do see it in the popular expression "si,
      ag ma meyzor at la rigu francor" /si ag m@ mIDEjr at la rIgu frankor/.
      That's what you tell someone when you don't believe a word of what
      they've just told you. I'm uncertain why there are two such genitive
      forms that behave so differently.

      >James

      Padraic
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