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Re: [romconlang] Re: Latin Cryptogram

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  • Padraic Brown
    ... Almost! Certainly some of the Romance negative particles are measure words, but not all. Unless words like flea and wink are count or measure nouns!
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 1, 2007
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      --- Steg Belsky <draqonfayir@...> wrote:

      > On Jan 31, 2007, at 10:59 PM, eamoniski wrote:
      > >> I don't have an etymon for cran, but am sure
      > it's
      > >> Celtic. Puleg comes from Latin pulic-.
      > >
      > > Milanese also has non ... minga (literally
      > "crumb")
      > >
      > > Old French similarly had ne ... mie
      > >
      > > Tuscan has non ... punto (just like French ne
      > ... point)
      > >
      > > French ne ... guère is interestingly from
      > Frankish ("a lot, much")
      > >
      > > Some other interesting negators from Old
      > French include:
      > >
      > > amende - almond
      > > gote - drop
      > > eschalope - peapod
      > > beloce - sloe
      > > areste - fishbone
      > >
      > > some others are: alie, cenelle, fie, nois,
      > pommes, espi, festu
      > >
      > > I find Old French and Old Provençal to be
      > terribly inspirational for
      > > my project. There's something about it...
      > >
      > > Cheers,
      > > Eamon
      >
      >
      > I think i missed something, but... are y'all
      > discussing the use of
      > Counter/Measure Words for negation? Very cool!

      Almost! Certainly some of the Romance negative
      particles are measure words, but not all. Unless
      words like "flea" and "wink" are count or measure
      nouns!

      Padraic

      >
      > -Stephen (Steg)
      >
      >


      Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio
      vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase!
      --Pomperios Perfurios.

      --

      Ill Bethisad --
      <http://www.bethisad.com>


      Come visit The World! --
      <http://www.geocities.com/hawessos/>







      .
    • Padraic Brown
      ... There are some text samples in both registers. I ll work on putting together a quick list of comparisons. ... Well, the French are pretty good at gourmet,
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 1, 2007
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        --- eamoniski <robertg@...> wrote:

        > I wrote:
        >
        > > > Grammar stays roughly the same except for
        >
        > Padraic wrote:
        >
        > > On that point, Kerno's two registers differ
        > > considerably. I'm sure to the point of mutual
        > > incomprehensibility.
        >
        > I'd be interested in some details. I'll check
        > out the webpage you mentioned.

        There are some text samples in both registers.
        I'll work on putting together a quick list of
        comparisons.

        > > Interesting about that. While it once
        > probably
        > > was a matter of register -- only the nobility
        > > would have known what "beef" or "venison"
        > are,
        > > the rest of the folk would have said "hwaet?"
        >
        > And it seems that in English a lot of this
        > revolves around names for
        > meats.

        Well, the French are pretty good at gourmet,
        after all. Even Caesar wrote about it in his
        Gallic Wars:

        All Gaul is divided in three parts: that which
        cooks with butter, that part which cooks with
        lard and the third part that cooks with olive
        oil.

        > I can think of some other doublets,
        > although I might be
        > stretching it a bit:
        >
        > freedom vs. liberty
        > cook vs. chef
        > anger vs. ire
        > ask vs. inquire
        > brotherly vs. fraternal
        > eastern vs. oriental

        I think most of this is probably just borrowing,
        as almost any Germanic word you can think of has
        a Latin or Romance double.

        > I think it makes the language quite rich.

        It does indeed! And mootmakes the whole need for
        a pan-Romance IAL, seeing as English has all the
        Romance words _anyone_ could ever need! ;)))

        > > The dative plural still has a fairly active
        > form
        > > (in -ib or -iv); a possessive plural can be
        > found
        > > in many names; the locative can sometimes be
        > > found fronted in its clause.
        >
        > Intriguing. I've been thikning of ways to
        > preserve a few remains of
        > the Classical cases (other than in fossilised
        > phrases...)

        I guess you could, since your monks were
        scholars, find a way for them to make use of the
        ablative in -d; or, like Kerno, borrow the Greek
        middle participle! :)

        > > I don't have an etymon for cran, but am sure
        > it's
        > > Celtic. Puleg comes from Latin pulic-.
        >
        > Milanese also has non ... minga (literally
        > "crumb")

        K has ne...meck.

        > Old French similarly had ne ... mie
        >
        > Tuscan has non ... punto (just like French ne
        > ... point)

        ne...point

        > French ne ... guère is interestingly from
        > Frankish ("a lot, much")

        I like that one.

        > Some other interesting negators from Old French
        > include:
        >
        > amende - almond

        I like that one too.

        > gote - drop

        ne...outh

        > eschalope - peapod

        I really like that one!

        > beloce - sloe

        Never heard of sloe!

        > areste - fishbone
        > some others are: alie, cenelle, fie, nois,
        > pommes, espi, festu

        Ah, what a shame that modern French has only got
        ne...pas left!

        > I find Old French and Old Provençal to be
        > terribly inspirational for
        > my project. There's something about it...

        Indeed! I don't know how systematic they were in
        French, but in Kerno, a sort of system of
        semantic areas has evolved, such that certain of
        the particles tend to get used with certain kinds
        of verbs.

        Padraic

        >
        > Cheers,
        > Eamon
        >
        >


        Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio
        vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase!
        --Pomperios Perfurios.

        --

        Ill Bethisad --
        <http://www.bethisad.com>


        Come visit The World! --
        <http://www.geocities.com/hawessos/>







        .
      • Steg Belsky
        ... Well, it could definitely work... flea could be the counter for insects or other small creatures wink could be the counter for motions etc. -Stephen
        Message 3 of 13 , Feb 4, 2007
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          On Feb 1, 2007, at 10:24 AM, Padraic Brown wrote:
          > --- Steg Belsky <draqonfayir@...> wrote:
          >>
          >> I think i missed something, but... are y'all
          >> discussing the use of
          >> Counter/Measure Words for negation? Very cool!
          >
          > Almost! Certainly some of the Romance negative
          > particles are measure words, but not all. Unless
          > words like "flea" and "wink" are count or measure
          > nouns!
          >
          > Padraic


          Well, it could definitely work...

          "flea" could be the counter for insects or other small creatures
          "wink" could be the counter for motions

          etc.


          -Stephen (Steg)
        • Padraic Brown
          ... It has yielded almanda (an almond) and amend (the negative ptc.). ... This one yielded yscalopa (scallop), but no neg. ptc. ... This one yielded boulacea
          Message 4 of 13 , Feb 7, 2007
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            --- Padraic Brown <elemtilas@...> wrote:

            > --- eamoniski <robertg@...> wrote:

            > > Milanese also has non ... minga (literally
            > > "crumb")
            > > Old French similarly had ne ... mie
            > > Tuscan has non ... punto (just like French ne
            > > ... point)
            > > French ne ... guère is interestingly from
            > > Frankish ("a lot, much")
            >
            > I like that one.
            >
            > > Some other interesting negators from Old
            > > French include:
            > >
            > > amende - almond
            >
            > I like that one too.

            It has yielded almanda (an almond) and amend (the
            negative ptc.).

            > > gote - drop
            > > eschalope - peapod
            >
            > I really like that one!

            This one yielded yscalopa (scallop), but no neg.
            ptc.

            > > beloce - sloe
            >
            > Never heard of sloe!

            This one yielded boulacea (a bullace or wild
            plum) and boulas (neg. ptc. with a negative or
            sour connotation].

            I also found breaire, to beat or thrash, and
            brageoir, to shriek or howl. (Both < bragire)

            > > areste - fishbone
            > > some others are: alie, cenelle, fie, nois,
            > > pommes, espi, fest

            Will have to look into those!

            Padraic



            Camifi, Marusi, teterani, tester fuferios asteros; tamenio
            vem Persaecion empuriase ed ec pasem emduriase!
            --Pomperios Perfurios.

            --

            Ill Bethisad --
            <http://www.bethisad.com>


            Come visit The World! --
            <http://www.geocities.com/hawessos/>







            .
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