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I've set up a Dodolingi site on MSN Space !

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  • jian_huang_ysword
    Ethabisu-ha-mi un sito po Dodolingi su MSN Phaze. Benven: http://spaces.msn.com/members/dodolingi/?partqs=cat=Overview I ve set up a Dodolingi site on MSN
    Message 1 of 21 , Dec 8, 2005
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      Ethabisu-ha-mi un sito po Dodolingi su MSN Phaze.
      Benven: http://spaces.msn.com/members/dodolingi/?partqs=cat=Overview

      I've set up a Dodolingi site on MSN Space.
      Welcome to: http://spaces.msn.com/members/dodolingi/?partqs=cat=Overview
    • jian_huang_ysword
      Con la MSN-SPACE cosu-pen-ha, se moba-ha-mi a un novel sito co subu. With MSN-Space been closed, I ve moved it to a new site as below. New Site of Doudouling /
      Message 2 of 21 , Mar 9, 2014
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        Con la MSN-SPACE cosu-pen-ha, se moba-ha-mi a un novel sito co subu.
        With MSN-Space been closed, I've moved it to a new site as below.
        New Site of Doudouling / Novel Sito de Dodolingi:
        https://googledrive.com/host/0B1vYSHirm9n2Wk1BQS00Mk9fTEE/2014/20140308_Dodolingi/index.html



        ---In romconlang@yahoogroups.com, <jian_huang_ysword@...> wrote :

        Ethabisu-ha-mi un sito po Dodolingi su MSN Phaze.
        Benven: http://spaces.msn.com/members/dodolingi/?partqs=cat=Overview

        I've set up a Dodolingi site on MSN Space.
        Welcome to: http://spaces.msn.com/members/dodolingi/?partqs=cat=Overview
      • jian_huang_ysword
        Con la MSN-SPACE cosu-pen-ha, se moba-ha-mi a un novel sito co subu. With MSN-Space been closed, I ve moved it to a new site as below. New Site of Doudouling /
        Message 3 of 21 , Mar 9, 2014
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          Con la MSN-SPACE cosu-pen-ha, se moba-ha-mi a un novel sito co subu.
          With MSN-Space been closed, I've moved it to a new site as below.
          New Site of Doudouling / Novel Sito de Dodolingi:
        • thomasruhm
          Is that a kind of language game?
          Message 4 of 21 , Mar 13, 2014
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            Is that a kind of language game?
          • thomasruhm
            The word voiag looks like it has hard g . Can g be soft in other words? I see there is an affricate c , like the z in ezebe . In that case the sc in
            Message 5 of 21 , Mar 13, 2014
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              The word 'voiag' looks like it has hard 'g'. Can 'g' be soft in other words? I see there is an affricate 'c', like the 'z' in 'ezebe'. In that case the 'sc' in 'dechend' changed to 'ch' before 'c' became 'z'.
            • Padraic Brown
              ... Under Phonetics it says that G is always [g]. If he s taking Latin pronunciations, and not Anglo-Italo-Latin pronunciations, then G will always be hard
              Message 6 of 21 , Mar 13, 2014
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                "thomas@..." <thomas@...> wrote:


                >The word 'voiag' looks like it has hard 'g'. Can 'g' be soft in other words? I see there is an affricate 'c', like the 'z' in 'ezebe'. In that case the 'sc' in 'dechend' changed to 'ch' before 'c' became 'z'.


                Under "Phonetics" it says that G is always [g]. If he's taking "Latin" pronunciations, and not Anglo-Italo-Latin pronunciations, then G will always be hard anyway. It's only when you get into later Latin pronunciations that you get soft Gs.

                One thing was confusing: I had gotten the impression that he was getting rid of "hard to pronounce" sounds like [l] and [r], and yet his texts are replete with words like "parol". But then he also has words like "io". Seems a little inconsistent.


                Another point of confusion was that he seems to have put himself through an awful regimen of mental gymnastics, just to end up with words that look kinds of like he just whacked off the Latin ending and slightly mangled / weathered the remaining roots a little bit. Or maybe I missed something in the confusing explanation??


                Padraic
              • jian_huang_ysword
                At first, thank you for reading my language ! ... The word voiag [vojá] is short form of voiage [vojáge]. Based on the so-called gymnastical calculation,
                Message 7 of 21 , Apr 29, 2014
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                  At first, thank you for reading my language !
                  >The word 'voiag' looks like it has hard 'g'. Can 'g' be soft in other words?
                  >Under "Phonetics" it says that G is always [g]. If he's taking "Latin" pronunciations, and not Anglo-Italo-Latin pronunciations, then G will always be hard anyway. It's only when you get into later Latin pronunciations that you get soft Gs.
                  The word 'voiag' [vojá] is short form of 'voiage' [vojáge].
                  Based on the so-called gymnastical calculation, it is decided to drop the last syllable 'ge' in pronunciation, but keep the 'g' in the spelling.
                  'g' cannot be soft, it's either hard [g] as in English 'good' or silent in the ending.
                  >I see there is an affricate 'c', like the 'z' in 'ezebe'. In that case the 'sc' in 'dechend' changed to 'ch' before 'c' became 'z'.
                  'c' is hard [k] as in English 'cat'; or silent in the ending.
                  'z' is for the soft 'c' in Latin, but it's pronounced as [ts] in English 'gets'.
                  'except' -> 'e-k-cept-' --> (-k- is compensated as final e) ; ( pt become b ) ---> 'e-ze-be'.
                  'descend' -> 'de-sk-en-d' --> ( -sk- become ch ) ; (verb adds -a ending) --> dechenda ---> (omit last syllable) --> 'dechend'.
                  I would say it's kind of random choice, when turning 'sc' to 'sk' but ignoring the hidden 's' in 'except'; it is okay to use 'dezend'
                  >One thing was confusing: I had gotten the impression that he was getting rid of "hard to pronounce" sounds like [l] and [r], and yet his texts are replete with words like "parol". But then he also has words like "io". Seems a little inconsistent.
                  The final consonant ('l' in 'parol' [pahó]) is kept in the spelling, but not pronounced
                  'dichover' is pronounced as [dizové]
                  >Another point of confusion was that he seems to have put himself through an awful regimen of mental gymnastics, just to end up with words that look kinds of like he just whacked off the Latin ending and slightly mangled / weathered the remaining roots a little bit. Or maybe I missed something in the confusing explanation??
                  As mentioned in the beginning section {Principles: compress Latin words into C-V syllable},
                  the goal of this design is to fit Latin roots into consonant-vowel-with-nasal (C-V-n) syllable structure.
                  It is trade-off between several options
                  1) dropping the character not fit into the (C-V-n) structure, which will lose too much info, cause conflict and hard to remember; think about 'extract' become 'eta'.
                  2) padding vowels, which will cause too many syllables, and too many repetition of the padding vowel; think about 'extract' become 'ekusuturakutu'
                  So the way is to choose some "important" character of the dropped ones and merge them into the consonant or the last vowel;
                  'extract' -> 'e-k-str-a-k-t' -> 'ethato'
                  both 'k' are dropped
                  's' is merged with 't' to become 'th' pronounced [dz]
                  'r' is dropped but represented as a final "-o"
                  Since the final vowels in Latin words are often dropped in English, it's good to add a final one to "represent" the dropped ones.
                  Thank you again!

                • thomasruhm
                  That looks like a quite plausible system to me. Did you have the German and eastern European pronunciations in mind, when you decided that way of using and
                  Message 8 of 21 , May 6, 2014
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                    That looks like a quite plausible system to me. Did you have the German and eastern European pronunciations in mind, when you decided that way of using <g> and <c>? I read your message before, but I didn't know what to write next, because it is so much to think about.

                    The stress in words which originally have two consonants might contribute to the decision on which of them will have to be kept.

                    Will you post some sentences in your language? Sentences are easier than descriptions.
                  • jian_huang_ysword
                    Q: Did you have the German and eastern European pronunciations in mind, when you decided that way of using and ? (cethon: fe tu ha in mental la
                    Message 9 of 21 , May 9, 2014
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                       Q: Did you have the German and eastern European pronunciations in mind, when you decided that way of using <g> and <c>?
                        (cethon: fe tu ha in mental la ponunzazono de Gemana e Uropani orental, can dezid-tu la via de usa <g> e <c>?)
                       A: No. Deciding the way of using <g> and <c> are simply to have one-to-one relationship between spelling and pronunciation
                        (rephons: no, la dezison de via de usa <g> e <c> the simpumenti a usa un-con-un relazon inter chiburo e ponunzazono)


                       A: The language prefer Latin form than French form than English form, because the left ones tends to have more vowels than the right ones; for example, supervision > survey > overlook
                        (rephons: la ling pefero la foma Latin, dan la foma Fanzeo, dan la foma Engichu; ba le sinther un tenda ha pusu de voveli dan le dether un; po esampu, {supervision} > {survey} > {overlook})
                       Q: The stress in words which originally have two consonants might contribute to the decision on which of them will have to be kept.
                        (cethon: la theso in veba, ce originalementi ha du consosnanti, pu contibuto a la dezison su cu de li manda sutheni)
                       A. Yes, the stressed syllable in the original word have higher priority to be kept, and the compensating ending vowel for the stressed syllable is more likely be kept than non-stressed, because it convey more signal.
                        (rephons: si, la azente silabu in la veba original ha ata piorito a sutheni, e la compensate final vovel po la azente silabu the pusu pobabumenti a sutheni, dan le non azente un, ba conveia-io pusu de sinale.)


                       Q: Will you post some sentences in your language? Sentences are easier than descriptions
                        (cethon: va tu potha sever le sentenzi in ta ling ? Le sentenzi the che fazil dan le dechibon)
                       A: Sure, I'm responding bilingually. Also I translated the page to Doudouling as in
                        https://googledrive.com/host/0B1vYSHirm9n2Wk1BQS00Mk9fTEE/2014/20140308_Dodolingi/dodolingi.html
                        (rephons: zetan, rephonda-mi bilingali. Encor tanlato-ha-mi la document a Dodolingi co in la super sito).

                    • jian_huang_ysword
                      Insert the link again (re inseta la hipelinca) https://googledrive.com/host/0B1vYSHirm9n2Wk1BQS00Mk9fTEE/2014/20140308_Dodolingi/dodolingi.html
                      Message 10 of 21 , May 9, 2014
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                      • Padraic Brown
                        ... Note, however, that (leastways in this example) there aren t actually fewer vowels so much as fewer consomants: super- O.F. sour- (with loss of -p-) (or
                        Message 11 of 21 , May 10, 2014
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                          "jian_huang_ysword@... [romconlang]" <romconlang@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                          > A: The language prefer Latin form than French form than English form, because the left ones tends to have more vowels than the right ones; for example, supervision > survey > overlook
                          >  (rephons: la ling pefero la foma Latin, dan la foma Fanzeo, dan la foma Engichu; ba le sinther un tenda ha pusu de voveli dan le dether un; po esampu, {supervision} > {survey} > {overlook})


                          Note, however, that (leastways in this example) there aren't actually fewer vowels so much as fewer consomants:

                          super- > O.F. sour- (with loss of -p-) (or in our case, A.Fr. sur-, with the same loss of -p- plus monophthonisation)


                          videre > O.F. veoir (with loss of -d-)

                          So, supervidere > A.Fr. surveier > Eng survey

                          In this case, French & English keep all the Latin vowels! (I disregard final vowels, because even Latin doesn't keep them very well...)


                          Padraic
                        • jian_huang_ysword
                          Thank you for pointing it out. (Gazo ce se punti-tu) It was not well explained. (Nega-io ephanu-pen si ben) The real reason is Latin form uses mostly the basic
                          Message 12 of 21 , May 10, 2014
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                            Thank you for pointing it out.
                             (Gazo ce se punti-tu)


                            It was not well explained.
                             (Nega-io ephanu-pen si ben)


                            The real reason is Latin form uses mostly the basic 5 vowels (a,e,i,o,u).
                             (La real razon the la foma Latine usa mase tem le zince voveli basice, (a,e,i,o,u).)


                            Although Latin distinguishes long and short vowels, but they do not make much difference.
                             (Anti ce Latin dithingicha long e bevo voveli, bo ne fe-lu muta de diferenze.)


                            French and English forms have more kinds of vowels besides the basic 5 vowels, and uses diphthong more frequently, which need more compensation and changes to fit them into C-V structures
                             (La foma de Fanzeso e Engichu ha muta phezi de voveli in adizon de le zince voveli basice, e usa ditonge pusu fecentomenti, da nezese-lu pusu de compensazon e changi a conveta ada le C-V thuturo.)


                            If you don't mind, I will add some of the discussions into the site, which will help explain it better.
                             (Si ne se refus-tu, ade-va-mi sever de le dichuson ada la document, ce edi-va-io se ephanu che ben.)


                            Thanks again
                             (Gazo, re)

                          • Padraic Brown
                            ... Yes, in good book Latin there are five basic vowels that only distinguish for length. This will vary depending upon time, dialect and register. As you
                            Message 13 of 21 , May 10, 2014
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                              "jian_huang_ysword@... [romconlang]" <romconlang@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


                              >The real reason is Latin form uses mostly the basic 5 vowels (a,e,i,o,u).Although Latin distinguishes long and short vowels, but they do not make much difference.


                              Yes, in good book Latin there are five basic vowels that only distinguish for length. This will vary depending upon time, dialect and register. As you start to move among the volgus, you start to hear various colours of vowel: different kinds of Is & Es, nasalisation, formation of new diphthongs & loss of old ones and that sort of thing.


                              >French and English forms have more kinds of vowels besides the basic 5 vowels,


                              This is certainly true, to a certain extent. For English, it's mostly a matter of contrast between simple vowels and diphthongs: [a] ~ [ej], [E] ~ [i], [I] ~ [aj], [a] ~ [ow], [v] ~ [juw].


                              > and uses diphthong more frequently, which need more compensation and changes to fit them into C-V structures

                              Of course, if they don't fit well with the phonetic scheme of your conlang, then best to stick with Latin's "simple" vowel structure. Keeping in mind that it too has its diphthongs: [aj], [oj], [eu], [au] at the least.

                              Padraic
                            • jian_huang_ysword
                              Message 14 of 21 , May 10, 2014
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                                :-D
                              • thomasruhm
                                Does one Latin vowel always correspond to the same vowel of Dodo Language? I like that you now write with translations. I would like to learn the Latin of the
                                Message 15 of 21 , May 11, 2014
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                                  Does one Latin vowel always correspond to the same vowel of Dodo Language? I like that you now write with translations.

                                  I would like to learn the Latin of the time of the Appendix Probi. Making a romconlang on my own I find to difficult.
                                • thomasruhm
                                  I am looking for people who could translate some articles on my blog into other languages. Would you like to do that? Most of my articles are short. Maybe I
                                  Message 16 of 21 , May 11, 2014
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                                    I am looking for people who could translate some articles on my blog into other languages. Would you like to do that? Most of my articles are short. Maybe I should make English translations first. I think translations would fit the aim of the blog, which is to make languages more popular just because they are interesting.
                                  • jian_huang_ysword
                                    ... Not always, but mostly it is true for the central vowel of a syllable. (No to le tem, bo mase tem the-io ver po la zentalo vovel de un silabu) For example,
                                    Message 17 of 21 , May 12, 2014
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                                      > Does one Latin vowel always correspond to the same vowel of Dodo Language?

                                       > (Fe un Latine vovel to tem corephonde a la sim vovel de Dodolingi?)


                                      Not always, but mostly it is true for the central vowel of a syllable.
                                       (No to le tem, bo mase tem the-io ver po la zentalo vovel de un silabu)


                                      For example, {caution} => {cazoni} ; diphthong {au} become {a} and suffix {-i} ; {i} is dropped due to insignificant ; {o} is kept.
                                       (Po esampu, {caution} => {cazoni} ; la ditonge {au} deven {a} e sufiche {-i} ; {i} abandon-pen ba insinificante ; {o} ten-pen.)


                                      >I am looking for people who could translate some articles on my blog into other languages.
                                       (Secha-mi po homi ci pu tanlato mu aticula su ma bogu enter le ater lingi)


                                      I am glad to help, as long as they are not too long.
                                       (The-mi pesantu a edi, selon nega-lu uter long)

                                    • thomasruhm
                                      I don t know how to show you my blog without posting the address here. Some of the posts are really short. Thank you.
                                      Message 18 of 21 , May 12, 2014
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                                        I don't know how to show you my blog without posting the address here. Some of the posts are really short. Thank you.
                                      • jian_huang_ysword
                                        Simply mail to ladodolingi@gmail.com (simpumenti enviha ladodolingi@gmail.com) ... mailto:ladodolingi@gmail.com mailto:ladodolingi@gmail.com
                                        Message 19 of 21 , May 12, 2014
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                                          Simply mail to ladodolingi@...
                                           (simpumenti enviha ladodolingi@...)

                                          :-)


                                          mailto:ladodolingi@...


                                        • jian_huang_ysword
                                          ladodolingi at gmail.com
                                          Message 20 of 21 , May 12, 2014
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                                            ladodolingi at gmail.com
                                          • thomasruhm
                                            I sent it to you. I will ask more people for translations into other languages.
                                            Message 21 of 21 , May 16, 2014
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                                              I sent it to you. I will ask more people for translations into other languages.
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