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RE: Character Death

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  • Beal, Nathan
    If possible you remove any non armor penetrate arrow (which rarely lodges in anyway, due to the tiny head) by removing the flights and then shoving the arrow
    Message 1 of 12 , Jul 1 1:06 AM
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      If possible you remove any non armor penetrate arrow (which rarely lodges in
      anyway, due to the tiny head) by removing the flights and then shoving the
      arrow through. The likelihood is that the arrow has already passed through
      the target. The shaft will cause no additional damage on its way out if
      shoved through the hole caused by the head.

      the wound would then be cauterized on both sides after the innards have been
      poked back in.

      > ----------
      > From: Shaun Lemay[SMTP:shaunl4@...]
      > Reply To: Recipients of the RoleMaster list
      > Sent: Thursday, July 01, 1999 1:13 AM
      > Subject: Re: Character Death
      >
      > penetrating weapons were much more lethal than cutting weapons. Any arrow
      > or
      > other penetrating weapon will push most of the bacteria and other crud
      > that sits
      > on the surface of our bodies into ourselves. Thus pulling the weapon back
      > out of
      > it's penetration wound leaves all this poisonous material still in the
      > body.
      >
      > That is why you see in old movies and such the hero, when hit by a
      > primitive
      > arrow or such, pushing it all the way through his body. It is not because
      > it is
      > likely a barbed arrow, but that he needs to try and push all that gunk
      > out.
      >
      > A slashing weapon such as a sword will create a would that will bleed
      > freely.
      > The blood will likely remove the dangerous contaminates away from the
      > body.
      > Infection is increased, however, when filthy bandages are used to bind the
      > wound.
      >
      > "Beal, Nathan" wrote:
      >
      > > Just a few notes on medieval combat.
      > >
      > > If you take a wound that causes bleeding or a weapon penetration you are
      > > very likely to die, even if the initial wound does not kill you. The
      > odds
      > > on blood poisoning or tetinus are very high from even a arrow
      > penetration
      > > (they are after all frequently stored in the earth point first).
      > Medicine
      > > in the Medieval period was pathetic by todays standards, the level of
      > > medicine in a typical "fantasy/medieval" RPG is closer to our own levels
      > > today, or involves magic sufficiently powerful to save the majority of
      > > characters.
      > >
      > > I personally think that the combat system presented in RM is playable
      > > realistic. If the GM does not fudge dice rolls, the characters are in
      > > danger whenever an attack is made against them. But it is not so bad
      > that
      > > it is possible for a group of PC's to get into a scrap and not get wiped
      > out
      > > to a man by a inferior force.
      > >
      > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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      >
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    • Scott Membry
      On the lighter side... I once saw an AD&D cartoon of a fighter chained to a tree with 2 dozen arrows in him (Some through the heart, head and other major
      Message 2 of 12 , Jul 1 5:13 AM
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        On the lighter side...

        I once saw an AD&D cartoon of a fighter chained to a tree with 2 dozen
        arrows in him (Some through the heart, head and other major organs) and
        the caption read :

        "Come on! Is that the best you can do? I've got 50 HP's left yet!"

        <smirk>

        Scott

        "Those who live by the sword...
        ...get shot by those who don't!"


        "Beal, Nathan" wrote:
        >
        > If possible you remove any non armor penetrate arrow (which rarely lodges in
        > anyway, due to the tiny head) by removing the flights and then shoving the
        > arrow through. The likelihood is that the arrow has already passed through
        > the target. The shaft will cause no additional damage on its way out if
        > shoved through the hole caused by the head.
        >
        > the wound would then be cauterized on both sides after the innards have been
        > poked back in.
        >
        > > ----------
        > > From: Shaun Lemay[SMTP:shaunl4@...]
        > > Reply To: Recipients of the RoleMaster list
        > > Sent: Thursday, July 01, 1999 1:13 AM
        > > Subject: Re: Character Death
        > >
        > > penetrating weapons were much more lethal than cutting weapons. Any arrow
        > > or
        > > other penetrating weapon will push most of the bacteria and other crud
        > > that sits
        > > on the surface of our bodies into ourselves. Thus pulling the weapon back
        > > out of
        > > it's penetration wound leaves all this poisonous material still in the
        > > body.
        > >
        > > That is why you see in old movies and such the hero, when hit by a
        > > primitive
        > > arrow or such, pushing it all the way through his body. It is not because
        > > it is
        > > likely a barbed arrow, but that he needs to try and push all that gunk
        > > out.
        > >
        > > A slashing weapon such as a sword will create a would that will bleed
        > > freely.
        > > The blood will likely remove the dangerous contaminates away from the
        > > body.
        > > Infection is increased, however, when filthy bandages are used to bind the
        > > wound.
        > >
        > > "Beal, Nathan" wrote:
        > >
        > > > Just a few notes on medieval combat.
        > > >
        > > > If you take a wound that causes bleeding or a weapon penetration you are
        > > > very likely to die, even if the initial wound does not kill you. The
        > > odds
        > > > on blood poisoning or tetinus are very high from even a arrow
        > > penetration
        > > > (they are after all frequently stored in the earth point first).
        > > Medicine
        > > > in the Medieval period was pathetic by todays standards, the level of
        > > > medicine in a typical "fantasy/medieval" RPG is closer to our own levels
        > > > today, or involves magic sufficiently powerful to save the majority of
        > > > characters.
        > > >
        > > > I personally think that the combat system presented in RM is playable
        > > > realistic. If the GM does not fudge dice rolls, the characters are in
        > > > danger whenever an attack is made against them. But it is not so bad
        > > that
        > > > it is possible for a group of PC's to get into a scrap and not get wiped
        > > out
        > > > to a man by a inferior force.
        > > >
        > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
        > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: rolemaster-unsubscribe@...
        > > > For additional commands, e-mail: rolemaster-help@...
        > >
        > >
        > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
        > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: rolemaster-unsubscribe@...
        > > For additional commands, e-mail: rolemaster-help@...
        > >
        >
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      • emmett gibson
        Feces would be more effective. E. C. G. On Wed, 30 Jun 1999 12:32:26 -0700 (PDT) Darrin Anderson ...
        Message 3 of 12 , Jul 1 6:38 AM
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          Feces would be more effective.


          E. C. G.


          On Wed, 30 Jun 1999 12:32:26 -0700 (PDT) Darrin Anderson
          <bashkarr@...> writes:
          >Or soak your arrows in water so the metal tips rust a bit <g>
          >
          >-Darrin
          >
          >--- bcd@... wrote:
          >> On Wed, Jun 30, 1999 at 09:26:28AM +0100, Beal,
          >> Nathan wrote:
          >> > Just a few notes on medieval combat.
          >> >
          >> > If you take a wound that causes bleeding or a
          >> weapon penetration you are
          >> > very likely to die, even if the initial wound does
          >> not kill you. The odds
          >> > on blood poisoning or tetinus are very high from
          >> even a arrow penetration
          >> > (they are after all frequently stored in the earth
          >> point first).
          >>
          >> I suspect that infection would very often be caused
          >> by the poor
          >> victim's own filthy clothing rather than by filth
          >> delivered by the
          >> weapon itself. Of course, if you stick your weapon
          >> in manure or
          >> something before using it, you are more or less
          >> guaranteed a long-term
          >> effect on anyone you injure, but that would be evil
          >> ... <g>
          >>
          >> Cheers
          >> Bent D
          >> --
          >> Bent Dalager - bcd@... - http://www.pvv.org/~bcd
          >>
          >>
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          >>
          >
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        • Beal, Nathan
          I was not suggesting the use as a poison, more like pointing (no pun intended) out the things people tend to forget about medieval combat. ... To unsubscribe,
          Message 4 of 12 , Jul 1 7:29 AM
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            I was not suggesting the use as a poison, more like pointing (no pun
            intended) out the things people tend to forget about medieval combat.

            > ----------
            > From: emmett gibson[SMTP:emmettg@...]
            > Reply To: Recipients of the RoleMaster list
            > Sent: Thursday, July 01, 1999 2:38 PM
            > Subject: Re: Character Death
            >
            > Feces would be more effective.
            >
            >
            > E. C. G.
            >
            >
            > On Wed, 30 Jun 1999 12:32:26 -0700 (PDT) Darrin Anderson
            > <bashkarr@...> writes:
            > >Or soak your arrows in water so the metal tips rust a bit <g>
            > >
            > >-Darrin
            > >
            > >--- bcd@... wrote:
            > >> On Wed, Jun 30, 1999 at 09:26:28AM +0100, Beal,
            > >> Nathan wrote:
            > >> > Just a few notes on medieval combat.
            > >> >
            > >> > If you take a wound that causes bleeding or a
            > >> weapon penetration you are
            > >> > very likely to die, even if the initial wound does
            > >> not kill you. The odds
            > >> > on blood poisoning or tetinus are very high from
            > >> even a arrow penetration
            > >> > (they are after all frequently stored in the earth
            > >> point first).
            > >>
            > >> I suspect that infection would very often be caused
            > >> by the poor
            > >> victim's own filthy clothing rather than by filth
            > >> delivered by the
            > >> weapon itself. Of course, if you stick your weapon
            > >> in manure or
            > >> something before using it, you are more or less
            > >> guaranteed a long-term
            > >> effect on anyone you injure, but that would be evil
            > >> ... <g>
            > >>
            > >> Cheers
            > >> Bent D
            > >> --
            > >> Bent Dalager - bcd@... - http://www.pvv.org/~bcd
            > >>
            > >>
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          • Robert Trifts
            ... While I don t dispute the observartions here, the fact is, infection as a major cause of death post battle was always present; however, it increased after
            Message 5 of 12 , Jul 1 9:16 AM
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              >. If you take a wound that causes bleeding or a
              > weapon penetration you are
              > very likely to die, even if the initial wound does
              > not kill you. The odds
              > on blood poisoning or tetinus are very high from
              > even a arrow penetration
              > (they are after all frequently stored in the earth
              > point first).

              While I don't dispute the observartions here, the fact is, infection as a
              major cause of death post battle was always present; however, it increased
              after the firearms replaced arrows and quarrels on the battlefield.

              The reason John Keegan states for this in the Face of Battle is simple: an
              arrow wound is more or less clean. A musket ball carries in to the wound
              pieces of clothing and other foreign matter deep in to the body. As a
              result, infection was more likely to occur from a wound caused on the
              modeern battlefield than one obtained on the ancient one.

              .Robert




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            • Darrin Anderson
              ... Interesting... perhaps those facing musket volleys should take a bath prior to battle and not wear any clothes? -Darrin
              Message 6 of 12 , Jul 1 9:20 AM
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                >
                > The reason John Keegan states for this in the Face
                > of Battle is simple: an
                > arrow wound is more or less clean. A musket ball
                > carries in to the wound
                > pieces of clothing and other foreign matter deep in
                > to the body. As a
                > result, infection was more likely to occur from a
                > wound caused on the
                > modeern battlefield than one obtained on the ancient
                > one.
                >
                Interesting... perhaps those facing musket volleys should take a bath
                prior to battle and not wear any clothes? <g>

                -Darrin
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              • Beal, Nathan
                The main reason for this kind of observation is IMHO twofold. Armies were bigger and arrows are actually more deadly than muskets (resulting in more quick
                Message 7 of 12 , Jul 2 1:01 AM
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                  The main reason for this kind of observation is IMHO twofold. Armies were
                  bigger and arrows are actually more deadly than muskets (resulting in more
                  quick kills and less wounded).

                  I do not know lots about the nepolionic period, but muskets are inferior
                  weapons to bows in skilled hands. The advantage of the musket is that it
                  takes so little time to train the user you can basically hand them out to
                  infantry, and all of a sudden they have a significant ranged attack. This
                  has some serious boosts to morale, it is difficult to get troops to charge
                  to melee at the best of times, so firearms allow for a slow advance.

                  > ----------
                  > From: Darrin Anderson[SMTP:bashkarr@...]
                  > Reply To: Recipients of the RoleMaster list
                  > Sent: Thursday, July 01, 1999 5:20 PM
                  > Subject: Re: Character Death
                  >
                  > >
                  > > The reason John Keegan states for this in the Face
                  > > of Battle is simple: an
                  > > arrow wound is more or less clean. A musket ball
                  > > carries in to the wound
                  > > pieces of clothing and other foreign matter deep in
                  > > to the body. As a
                  > > result, infection was more likely to occur from a
                  > > wound caused on the
                  > > modeern battlefield than one obtained on the ancient
                  > > one.
                  > >
                  > Interesting... perhaps those facing musket volleys should take a bath
                  > prior to battle and not wear any clothes? <g>
                  >
                  > -Darrin
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                • Ozgur Sahin
                  ... 1. A musket ball is more likely to lodge inside the body (whereas an arrow will usually go through or the point will go through). 2. A musket ball was
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jul 2 1:24 PM
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                    > While I don't dispute the observartions here, the fact is, infection as a
                    > major cause of death post battle was always present; however, it increased
                    > after the firearms replaced arrows and quarrels on the battlefield.
                    >
                    > The reason John Keegan states for this in the Face of Battle is simple: an
                    > arrow wound is more or less clean. A musket ball carries in to the wound
                    > pieces of clothing and other foreign matter deep in to the body. As a
                    > result, infection was more likely to occur from a wound caused on the
                    > modeern battlefield than one obtained on the ancient one.

                    1. A musket ball is more likely to lodge inside the body (whereas an
                    arrow will usually go through or the point will go through).
                    2. A musket ball was usually made out of iron or lead, neither being
                    very clean or free of impurities (especially considering the primitive
                    refining processes at the time).
                    3. There is of course the difference between a razor cut and a paper
                    cut. The razor cut is finer, cleaner. The difference between a musket wound
                    and an arrow wound is worse. The more random tissue damage, the higher
                    probability of infection. The higher the surface area of the projectile, the
                    more random tissue damage there will be. This is one reason that the tactic
                    of stuffing a cannon with grape shot was so popular for anti-personnel
                    situations.
                    4. A musket ball (or grape shot) is much more likely to break bones
                    than an arrow. MORE tissue damage.
                    5. Any idiot could use a musket.

                    -Ozzy


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