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RMSS --- Races & Professions

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  • Nicholas H.M. Caldwell
    A long time ago, John W Curtis III said that we should think of RMSS as being a new game rather than a new edition. I now prefer to think of it as being a
    Message 1 of 12 , Oct 1, 1995
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      A long time ago, John W Curtis III said that we should think of RMSS
      as being a new game rather than a new edition. I now prefer to think
      of it as being a BETTER game than 2nd Edition RM.

      Yes, I have bought in RMSS Standard Rules and Spell Law, not because
      I believed in the hype, but because the fates have rendered it
      necessary for me to postpone a campaign I was intending to start this
      year (and allowing me the time to consider which Edition to run
      under) and because I spotted the distress signs being shown by my
      copy of RMC2. I desperately photocopied the back pages of RMC2
      (because I have an ongoing campaign which will complete in June) and
      sallied forth in search of RMSS.

      The character creation process appears easier (or at least no more
      difficult) than 2nd Edn, the new professions are useful, the skill
      system while harder to understand at first will be easier on everyone
      in the long run, the training packages seem well-designed, and the
      spell lists have been cleaned up and improved (even if some spell
      lists are direct copies of Companion material) ...

      However there are two problems/issues/opportunities that need to be
      considered.

      Firstly RMSS can only (like 2nd Edn w/o C&T I) be used in a
      Middle-Earth (or variant thereof) setting. The Races and Cultures of
      the new core involve material which has basically been lifted,
      reduced and converted from the various editions of MERP. (which means
      if you want to play test RMSS get one of the new Middle-Earth
      supplements rather than use your own world, Palantir Quest or
      Kin-strife here I come)

      However most of us have worlds with merfolk, centaurs, faeries,
      avians, giants and all the merry crew from C&T I & II. As far as I
      know, there are no stat bonuses etc at the back of C&Monsters for
      using these as (N)PC races. John has in a previous posting mentioned
      Races & Cultures I Underground Races. Does this mean that ICE plans
      Races & Cultures II Faerie Races
      Races & Cultures III Giant Races
      Races & Cultures IV Unusual Races
      Races & Cultures V Human Cultures ???

      Personally I think even at 1-2 pages to describe stat bonuses, Body
      Dev, PP Dev, special abilities, racial/cultural hobby skills,
      languages etc, more than one tome is overkill, AND we the folk who
      pay will have to wait TOO LONG to get all our favourite races back.
      (And all the new customers might get suspicious about the amount of
      sourcebooks ICE is trying to flog ...)

      So how many Races & Cultures books and what timeframe are we
      talking about?

      Secondly some activity on the list suggests that "Bring back
      Profession XYZ or else we won't migrate to RMSS" has some support
      among the long-time RM populace. It may be my imagination but the
      Profession XYZ tends to be a Semi or a Pure rather than a Non.

      2ndEdn professions were defined using prime stats, skill costs,
      level bonuses and sometimes spell lists
      RMSS professions are defined using prime stats, skill & category
      costs, profession bonuses, Occupational/Everyman/Restricted
      listings, and training package costs.

      If we look carefully at the training packages, we see such
      possibilities as the Assassin, the Burglar, the Sailor, the Crafter,
      the Knight, the various Academics ... Now we can map those training
      packages to the equivalent 2md Edn professions (Ass, Bur, Sai,
      Craftsman, Cavalier, Scholar ...)

      Is it ICE's long-term aim to reincarnate these Arms Users as
      fully-fledged professions at some later date, or are we supposed to
      customise RMSS professions in the following way:
      If you want to play an Assassin, pick a Thief, Rogue, Dabbler or
      Magent say and take the Assassin training package to give the correct
      slant? (Perhaps shift a couple of skills into anEveryman/Occupational if
      the GM is feeling very generous)

      What is ICE's opinion? And what do the folk on the list think?
      I think the second method may prevent unnecessary profession
      proliferation while retaining the variety of the 2nd Edn (but maybe
      I'm wrong ...)

      This email is already too long --- I'll leave worries about Semis and
      Pures to my next posting.

      Apologies for length, and long live RMSS,
      Nicholas HM Caldwell
    • Jeffrey Brissette
      -- [ From: Jeffrey Brissette * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] -- ... considered. ... (or ... one of ... Quest ... I agree with you assessment of it there. However, Any GM
      Message 2 of 12 , Oct 1, 1995
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        -- [ From: Jeffrey Brissette * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --


        > However there are two problems/issues/opportunities that need to be
        considered.
        >
        > Firstly RMSS can only (like 2nd Edn w/o C&T I) be used in a Middle-Earth
        (or
        > variant thereof) setting. The Races and Cultures of the new core involve
        > material which has basically been lifted, reduced and converted from the
        > various editions of MERP. (which means if you want to play test RMSS get
        one of
        > the new Middle-Earth supplements rather than use your own world, Palantir
        Quest
        > or Kin-strife here I come)


        I agree with you assessment of it there. However, Any GM worth his salt
        would use the preset race cultures as a basis or template for his own.


        >
        > However most of us have worlds with merfolk, centaurs, faeries,
        > avians, giants and all the merry crew from C&T I & II. As far as I
        > know, there are no stat bonuses etc at the back of C&Monsters for
        > using these as (N)PC races. John has in a previous posting mentioned
        > Races & Cultures I Underground Races. Does this mean that ICE plans
        > Races & Cultures II Faerie Races
        > Races & Cultures III Giant Races
        > Races & Cultures IV Unusual Races
        > Races & Cultures V Human Cultures ???
        >
        > Personally I think even at 1-2 pages to describe stat bonuses, Body Dev,
        PP
        > Dev, special abilities, racial/cultural hobby skills, languages etc, more
        than
        > one tome is overkill, AND we the folk who pay will have to wait TOO LONG
        to get
        > all our favourite races back. (And all the new customers might get
        suspicious
        > about the amount of sourcebooks ICE is trying to flog ...)

        Again , my best suggestion to do it yourself.

        here is quick guide
        old RM RMSS
        stats +5 +2
        stat +10 +4
        stat -5 -2
        stat -10 -4

        resistant
        rolls same same

        body develop d8 0*6*4*2*1
        d10 0*7*5*3*1

        power pts
        channeling 0*6*5*4*3 ( all races )
        essense varies based on view of race
        mentalism varies based on view of race

        common breakdowns on pp development are
        0*6*5*4*3 base
        0*7*6*5*4 race with strong value in realm
        0*3*2*1*1 race with weak value in realm
        0*2*1*1*1 min value in realm


        as for the culture skills and other things, It will take a little work but
        it will be worth it in the
        end.

        >
        > So how many Races & Cultures books and what timeframe are we talking about
        ?
        >
        > Secondly some activity on the list suggests that "Bring back Profession
        XYZ or
        > else we won't migrate to RMSS" has some support among the long-time RM
        > populace. It may be my imagination but the Profession XYZ tends to be a
        Semi or
        > a Pure rather than a Non.
        >
        > 2ndEdn professions were defined using prime stats, skill costs,
        > level bonuses and sometimes spell lists
        > RMSS professions are defined using prime stats, skill & category
        > costs, profession bonuses, Occupational/Everyman/Restricted
        > listings, and training package costs.
        >
        > If we look carefully at the training packages, we see such possibilities
        as the
        > Assassin, the Burglar, the Sailor, the Crafter, the Knight, the various
        > Academics ... Now we can map those training packages to the equivalent 2md
        Edn
        > professions (Ass, Bur, Sai, Craftsman, Cavalier, Scholar ...)
        >
        > Is it ICE's long-term aim to reincarnate these Arms Users as
        > fully-fledged professions at some later date, or are we supposed to
        > customise RMSS professions in the following way:
        > If you want to play an Assassin, pick a Thief, Rogue, Dabbler or
        > Magent say and take the Assassin training package to give the correct
        > slant? (Perhaps shift a couple of skills into anEveryman/Occupational if
        > the GM is feeling very generous)

        It has always been my opinion that many of the Arm professions were just a
        rehash of the base fighter with skills switch around a little to give him a
        low skill cost in some area.

        As far as spell users , I feel that it would take very little work to come
        up with the development cost for the profession, have the profession use the
        base spell list from the
        companion. Although It has again been my opinion that many of the spell
        profession are unbalance or just did not fit my campaign.

        On a side note, did anyone notice that the magent is basically the same as
        the RMC I nightblade profession. Although I admit the magents spell lists
        make more sense.




        --
        Jeff Brissette -
        nblade@...
        nblade@...
        http://www.primenet.com/~nblade/
      • Endaira@aol.com
        ... I, for one, don t want to see the proliferation of professions. When I work with RM capaign materials, having to have a slew of charts on dozens of
        Message 3 of 12 , Oct 1, 1995
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          In a message dated 95-10-01 09:14:29 EDT, Nicholas Caldwell wrote:

          >Is it ICE's long-term aim to reincarnate these Arms Users as
          >fully-fledged professions at some later date, or are we supposed to
          >customise RMSS professions in the following way:
          >If you want to play an Assassin, pick a Thief, Rogue, Dabbler or
          >Magent say and take the Assassin training package to give the correct
          >slant? (Perhaps shift a couple of skills into anEveryman/Occupational if
          >the GM is feeling very generous)

          I, for one, don't want to see the proliferation of professions. When I work
          with RM capaign materials, having to have a slew of charts on dozens of
          professions to keep up with the NPCs is annoying at the very least. I _much_
          prefer the fewer professions with the knowledge that, if I want to flesh the
          NPC out to a greater extent, I can toss in a training package or two.

          As for handling other than the most common of fantasy races, I have been
          operating by lifting the basic information from the _Creatures_ manual and
          using that plus my world setting to decide what bonuses, penalties, and skill
          development should be like.

          Personally, if I were dividing Races and Cultures into several supplements, I
          would have chosen to do so as: Fantasy Races, Alien Races, etc.

          I think the important thing to remember, though, is that supplements are
          merely time savers. If I'd like to have a sylph in my campaign, I can decide
          how _I_ envision sylphs, read the rules, and sketch out the information OR I
          can hop down to the hobby shop, plunk down some bucks, and purchase someone
          else's vision of sylphs. Either choice is okay.
        • Nicholas H.M. Caldwell
          ... .. and I probably will do so by converting my adolescence material to racial/cultural packages. But if ICE has already done the work or is about to do the
          Message 4 of 12 , Oct 2, 1995
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            On Sun, 1 Oct 1995, Jeffrey Brissette wrote:
            > I agree with you assessment of it there. However, Any GM worth his salt
            > would use the preset race cultures as a basis or template for his own.
            >

            .. and I probably will do so by converting my adolescence material to
            racial/cultural packages. But if ICE has already done the work or is
            about to do the work in a SHORT timeframe, then it may be safer for all
            concerned to take a hopefully balanced set of templates rather than
            trying to reverse engineer from the existing stuff.

            > Again , my best suggestion to do it yourself.
            >
            > here is quick guide
            > old RM RMSS
            > stats +5 +2
            > stat +10 +4
            > stat -5 -2
            > stat -10 -4

            Actually as far as stats go, the conversion is indeed simple take 40% of
            the 2nd Edn stat. The only exception is in Self-Discipline where if the
            race concerned is Elvish or fey (gremlin, satyr, undine etc), take 25% of
            the 2nd Edn stat
            > resistant rolls same same
            >
            > body develop d8 0*6*4*2*1
            > d10 0*7*5*3*1

            I spent Saturday afternoon looking at converting Body Development ... as
            far as I can see, you look at "hit die" AND the max hits to work out the
            progression. The first 10 ranks will give 75% (round down) of the maximum
            available using the appropriate 2nd Edn die, and ranks 11-20 & 21-30
            should provide enough hits to make the total equal to the 2nd Edn max hits.
            Thus
            Common Men were d8,120
            they are 0*6*4*2*1 now
            High Men were d10, 150
            they are 0*7*5*3*1 now
            The progression for ranks above 30 is always 1 (unless you are an Orc)

            (This is accurate except for Orcs who are being handled differently,
            and Dwarves and Halflings who are receiving 10 and 30 hits extra ... to
            toughen them up wrt Common Men and Orcs)

            > power pts
            > channeling 0*6*5*4*3 ( all races )
            > essense varies based on view of race
            > mentalism varies based on view of race
            >
            > common breakdowns on pp development are
            > 0*6*5*4*3 base
            > 0*7*6*5*4 race with strong value in realm
            > 0*3*2*1*1 race with weak value in realm
            > 0*2*1*1*1 min value in realm

            Probably ... but I haven't tried to reverse engineer this bit yet

            > as for the culture skills and other things, It will take a little work but
            > it will be worth it in the
            > end.

            a "little" work, but yes...

            > It has always been my opinion that many of the Arm professions were just a
            > rehash of the base fighter with skills switch around a little to give him a
            > low skill cost in some area.
            >
            > As far as spell users , I feel that it would take very little work to come
            > up with the development cost for the profession, have the profession use the
            > base spell list from the
            > companion. Although It has again been my opinion that many of the spell
            > profession are unbalance or just did not fit my campaign.
            >

            It shouldn't take too much to bring them all back ... (we can rebuild the
            Noble Warrior/Arms Master/Beastmaster etc)

            The question is which ones are going to come back courtesy of ICE, which
            ones should come back, and which ones should be sent to oblivion?


            > On a side note, did anyone notice that the magent is basically the same as
            > the RMC I nightblade profession. Although I admit the magents spell lists
            > make more sense.

            Yes, I just wish they had kept the profession name unchanged ...
            Nightblade has a better ring to it than Magent

            Nicholas HM Caldwell
          • Oliver Hauss
            ... Yeah, but the term Nightblade is much more flashy than Magent. In my campaign, there was a rivalry between assassins and nightblades. The assassins
            Message 5 of 12 , Oct 2, 1995
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              On Sun, 1 Oct 1995, Jeffrey Brissette wrote:

              > On a side note, did anyone notice that the magent is basically the same as
              > the RMC I nightblade profession. Although I admit the magents spell lists
              > make more sense.
              >
              >
              >
              Yeah, but the term Nightblade is much more flashy than Magent. In my
              campaign, there was a rivalry between assassins and nightblades. The
              assassins proclaimed that the nightblades could achieve their goals
              through use of magic while the nightblades accused the assassins of the
              worst crime a nightblade could think of .... of possessing no style.

              Oliver
            • RMGuru@aol.com
              R&C ==== Races and Cultures is currently planned as 5 books: Underground Races, Fairy Races, Giant Races, Mannish Races, and Unusual Races. The author has done
              Message 6 of 12 , Oct 2, 1995
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                R&C
                ====
                Races and Cultures is currently planned as 5 books: Underground Races, Fairy
                Races, Giant Races, Mannish Races, and Unusual Races. The author has done
                some work in almost all of the books, but the first will be Underground
                Races. I expect one to two books per year will will be the release schedule.
                BTW, each race is getting 5-10 pages in these tomes; with detailed notes on
                religion, culture, etc. As well as racial specific training packages (and
                sometimes spell lists).

                Professions
                ===========
                We get asked this a lot. That is one of the reasons that Character Companion
                has a high priority on the author search. I cannot say which professions will
                return, as that will depend partially upon the author who writes the piece.
                However, I can say that I am going to work to prevent the proliferation of
                character professions. I would much rather see the proliferation of training
                packages. In Arcane Companion, spell using training packages are introduced.
                We will have to address the needs of new spell lists, but most new spell
                lists in the companions were rehashes of old spells combined in new ways....

                All in all, I plan on keeping the new RMSS clean and balanced with itself.
                The new companions will (hopefully) have a lot more balance in them than the
                old companions did.


                John W. Curtis III
                Rolemaster Series Editor
                Freelance Director
                Iron Crown Enterprises, Inc.
              • Nicholas H.M. Caldwell
                ... I got the names wrong but it IS to be FIVE books ... I prefer training package proliferation to profession proliferation any day of the week, I just
                Message 7 of 12 , Oct 2, 1995
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                  On Mon, 2 Oct 1995 RMGuru@... wrote:

                  > R&C

                  I got the names wrong but it IS to be FIVE books

                  > Professions
                  > ===========

                  I prefer training package proliferation to profession proliferation any
                  day of the week, I just believe that the system needs a few more
                  templates produced to handle the Alchemist, Seer/Sage, and a handful of
                  other stereotypes.

                  > All in all, I plan on keeping the new RMSS clean and balanced with itself.
                  > The new companions will (hopefully) have a lot more balance in them than the
                  > old companions did.
                  >
                  >
                  > John W. Curtis III
                  > Rolemaster Series Editor
                  > Freelance Director
                  > Iron Crown Enterprises, Inc.

                  I applaud a desire to keep RMSS clean & balanced BUT I think RMSS is
                  going to have one major problem: Companion proliferation

                  There is a vast list of potential Companions etc conjectured in Standard
                  Rules, John has provided a product update that suggests there are even
                  more tomes in the works ...

                  Isn't this going to be worse in the long run than 2nd Edn, ... every GM
                  is going to end up neck-deep in RM material, ... and it WILL all be
                  necessary (we need the Races books, newbies need treasures book and so
                  forth, we all need the errata sheets) ??? (Args that you only need 4 core
                  products are nonsense ... only Middle-Earth can be run (just) with those)

                  Am I alone, or do other folk here believe that careful and considered
                  thought should be put into what actually needs to appear and what will
                  just be masses of wasted paper?

                  Nicholas HM Caldwell
                  (nhmc1@...)
                • Renaud.Gary
                  This is kind of long. I went ahead and already did all this by hand. I had previously made up adolescent skill development for all the races (like MERP), so
                  Message 8 of 12 , Oct 2, 1995
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                    This is kind of long.

                    I went ahead and already did all this "by hand." I had previously made up
                    adolescent skill development for all the races (like MERP), so I just needed to
                    add in the categories. I did not make any Everyman/Restricted/Professional
                    development based on race, only class. This was mostly a cop-out, as I didn't
                    want to go through all the effort. Neither did I make an packages based on
                    race. I figure no one would stupid enough to play a Kentar, then decide to get
                    the Cat-Burglar package (based on some players I've seen at conventions, this
                    may be necessary after all).

                    I gave some races bonuses in certain skills in which they excelled, rather than
                    just a whole bunch of ranks, though sometimes I did that. For example, canines
                    got a bonus to the Smell and Hearing senses, because their physiology makes them
                    better than a Human will ever be (assuming each buys a comparable number of
                    skill ranks). I gave them some ranks in Stalk and Hide, but NOT a bonus. In
                    this case, they are simply more experienced and anyone can learn how to do that
                    just as well.

                    I gave EVERY race one rank in certain skills, such as the Hearing, that I could
                    not imagine anyone being totally without. I tended to give races ranks in the
                    appropriate categories, rather than individual skills, as I figure that an
                    adolescent would have a smatter of skills in the area, but not be really GOOD at
                    anything. You may disagree.

                    Making the Power Point and Body Development progressions was kind of tedious.
                    The Body Development was basically straightforward, but I played around with
                    some different combinations: for someone SLIGHTLY better than 6-5-4-3, should I
                    use 6-6-4-3 or 6-5-4-4 or 6-5-5-3? I made some gut-level decisions on this and
                    decided differently for different races. Basically, I based the progression on
                    the physical size and physiology of the race in question. The races that had
                    harsh lifestyles get a bunch of hits to start off with, but not necessarily a
                    better progression. Consider a barbarian and urban-dwelling human. Both are of
                    the same species and can theoretically have the same build. The only difference
                    is that the barbarian is further along in his development.

                    For Power Points, I was much stricter, with virtually no one getting better than
                    the standard 6-5-4-3. For Channeling, I made almost everyone the same, as I
                    figured it depended more on the favor of the gods (I have one race which is
                    deiphobic; they got 2-1-1-1). For Essence, I gave a bonus to the faerie-type
                    races and to a couple others that had a reputation of being powerful mages. For
                    Mentalism, I punted and basically said that a high PR bonus means a good
                    progression and a low one a bad progression. I will have to adjust the figuures
                    later to fix a couple problems that I have seen.

                    I re-established many of the missing classes. The general procedure was find
                    the closest class in the existing RMSR, do a block copy, then tweak the
                    necessary skills. I simply copied the old spell lists; this may cause problems
                    in comparison to the new SL, but I haven't found any troubles yet.

                    I did not restore the Assassin or Bounty Hunter, as they can be simulated pretty
                    easily with the existing Rogue, say, and judicious options. I similarly axed
                    the High Warrior Monk, Nightblade, Sleuth, Montebanc, and a couple others.

                    I brought back the Burglar, as there was no really good options to modify the
                    Thief, especially the Adrenal Moves (& Defense) portions.

                    I restored the Runemaster, Conjuror, Magus, and Alchemist by using the Magician
                    and tweaking a few skills (reducing Directed spells, mainly, and bumping up th
                    appropriate skills, such as Read Runes or Alchemy). I couldn't wait for the new
                    Alchemy Companion, or whatever; you may decided differently.

                    The Animist is almost a Druid, so I basically kept it alone. I recreated the
                    Shaman by using the Animist, plus the Shaman base lists, plus a strong
                    recommendation that the player pick the Shaman Priest package.

                    I brought back the Warrior Mage by starting with the Dabbler and averaging the
                    combat-related skills with those of a Fighter. I used the Fighter's costs for
                    subterfuge-type skills.

                    The Beastmaster is just a Ranger with different spell lists and better
                    development costs for Animal-related skills. That means he is now Channeling
                    rather then the Essence or Mentalism from the old system. Oh well.

                    The hybrids were the most difficult. Generally, I took the class that had the
                    same realms and the class that most nearly resembled the class I wanted to make
                    and interpolated between the two. There were a lot of "fix-ups" necessary.

                    The Race-Class grid was done by simply making a paper grid, then filling in
                    boxes based on "Yeah, I can see one of those," or "No way could they do that."
                    Before someone attacks that method, tell me what classes REAL Goblins can be.

                    All in all, it took maybe 15-20 hours to completely convert everything over.
                    This includes all the various priests (I don't use Generic Clerics; my priests
                    have skills and spells based on their deity, though there is a lot of
                    similarity). It's all sitting in a database now.

                    In summary, while the race guides would be useful in a new campaign, if you have
                    an existing one converted over to the RMSS, you are going to have to do a lot of
                    jiggering ANYWAY, so you might as well convert them by hand.

                    Further, I doubt I will rush to "correct" my classes once the appropriate
                    "official" descriptions are out. Having been burned by the Crystal Mage years
                    ago, I stick with what I have, though I tend to look at what is official and
                    maybe make any drastic differences; I won't bother with 2/5 vs. 2/7 for
                    something, though.

                    Thanks for listening.

                    A
                    |\
                    I may be funny-looking, but | \ _,,,---,,__
                    I'm a lot smaller than a /,`.-'`' -. ;-;,---__
                    PGP key block __|,4- ) )-,_. ,\ ( `'==--'
                    `-----''(_/--' `-'\_)

                    * <---- The universe before the Big Bang (actual size)
                  • G.O. Jensen
                    Previously, Nicholas H.M. Caldwell stated... ... Yes, more thought, less paper. I m horrified by 5 race books! I think I ll end up creating my own instead. And
                    Message 9 of 12 , Oct 2, 1995
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                      Previously, Nicholas H.M. Caldwell stated...
                      >Am I alone, or do other folk here believe that careful and considered
                      >thought should be put into what actually needs to appear and what will
                      >just be masses of wasted paper?
                      Yes, more thought, less paper. I'm horrified by 5 race books! I think I'll
                      end up creating my own instead. And a perfect example; GM LAW, is rather
                      useless. Nice reading, but if you've been GM'ing for a decade or so, it
                      gives little news. Nothing much to add to the game system either, except a
                      few pages of equipment. Disappointing...
                      ---
                      /> Alis Volat Propriis
                      /< G.O. Jensen Marie Soerdals vei 8c
                      O[\\\\\\(O):::<==================================- N-7036 Trondheim
                      \< gojensen@... Kingdom of Norway
                      \>
                      <http://www.interlink.no/~gojensen/>
                    • Frank F Smith
                      ... Hmmm... I wonder how one can manage detailed notes on religion, culture, etc. without getting locked into a specific setting. I suppose much can be
                      Message 10 of 12 , Oct 2, 1995
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                        On Mon, 2 Oct 1995 RMGuru@... wrote:

                        > R&C
                        > ====
                        > Races and Cultures is currently planned as 5 books: Underground Races, Fairy
                        > Races, Giant Races, Mannish Races, and Unusual Races. The author has done
                        > some work in almost all of the books, but the first will be Underground
                        > Races. I expect one to two books per year will will be the release schedule.
                        > BTW, each race is getting 5-10 pages in these tomes; with detailed notes on
                        > religion, culture, etc. As well as racial specific training packages (and
                        > sometimes spell lists).

                        Hmmm... I wonder how one can manage "detailed notes on religion, culture,
                        etc." without getting locked into a specific setting. I suppose much can
                        be "plug-and-play," but if major adjustments are needed to adapt the
                        material to a different setting, the detailed notes become less valuable.

                        >
                        > Professions
                        > ===========
                        {snip}
                        > However, I can say that I am going to work to prevent the proliferation of
                        > character professions. I would much rather see the proliferation of training
                        > packages.

                        I agree, I think. Sounds like it makes for a cleaner system. Time and
                        budgetary constraints have kept me from looking at RMSS so far, but this
                        makes me wonder: is it feasible or desirable to reduce the number of
                        professions even further? For example, consider Magicians and
                        Illusionists. At least as of 2nd ed., as I recall, they were _nearly_
                        identical, except for base spell lists. Why not treat them as a single
                        profession, pure SU of essence, with differences in "apprenticeship"
                        (training package?) leading to the different spell list selection?

                        Frank Smith
                      • s003llt@nova.wright.edu
                        ... I feel like I have to play devil s advocate here :) I ve been GMing since 1980 (T$R to begin with, Hero system, C of C, Cyberpunk, Rolemaster, diceless
                        Message 11 of 12 , Oct 3, 1995
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                          On Mon, 2 Oct 1995, G.O. Jensen wrote:

                          > Yes, more thought, less paper. I'm horrified by 5 race books! I think I'll
                          > end up creating my own instead. And a perfect example; GM LAW, is rather
                          > useless. Nice reading, but if you've been GM'ing for a decade or so, it
                          > gives little news. Nothing much to add to the game system either, except a
                          > few pages of equipment. Disappointing...

                          I feel like I have to play devil's advocate here :) I've been GMing
                          since 1980 (T$R to begin with, Hero system, C of C, Cyberpunk,
                          Rolemaster, diceless games, games through the mail, etc., and I liked GM
                          law a lot. There were a lot of things in there that I do, but hadn't
                          realized why. They dealt with questions of GMing that I've never had
                          arrise. Of course, there were a lot of things I think are important that
                          they didn't deal with (like Trauth Theorem #219: "The GM is NOT a television
                          and gaming is NOT a spectator sport.), but I still thought it was useful,
                          as well as fun to read.

                          There has been quite a thread going lately on what kind of supplement is
                          best. Well, this kind of supplement is the sort I enjoy --
                          the kind that gives general advice on how to accomplish something but
                          doesn't do it for you. I guess I'll always prefer my own inventions to
                          someone elses, but often it is hard to know where to start with a big
                          project. What is maybe my most fav. supplement of all times is like
                          this -- the GURPS religion supplement. To each his (or her) own, of
                          course. I mean, some people even still play AD&D... :)
                          Laura
                        • TSG Jack Gallemore, Network Manager, 686
                          Actually, I like the Warhammer 40k Codex s. Very detailed to the point where I can get a feel for the race/chapter/whatever. It helps me create my own
                          Message 12 of 12 , Oct 3, 1995
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                            Actually, I like the Warhammer 40k Codex's. Very detailed to the point
                            where I can get a feel for the race/chapter/whatever. It helps me create
                            my own race/chapter/whatever that will have references to "documented"
                            occurences.
                            I'll hold my opinion on the proliferation of race books until I see one and
                            thumb through it. Usually my differences with books isn't on what is
                            provided, rather it is based on how (and how well) it is written. Rule
                            books that have been my favorite *feel* nothing like rule books (i.e. Call
                            of Cthulu).

                            Jack Gallemore
                            http://131.18.87.248/top.html
                            DSN 940-5611
                            voice 405.686.5611

                            Don't make hay on a windy day -- Gaelic Proverb
                            -------------
                            Original Text
                            From s003llt@..., on 10/3/95 3:08 PM:
                            To: Multiple recipients of list rolemaster@...


                            On Mon, 2 Oct 1995, G.O. Jensen wrote:

                            > Yes, more thought, less paper. I'm horrified by 5 race books! I think
                            I'll
                            > end up creating my own instead. And a perfect example; GM LAW, is rather
                            > useless. Nice reading, but if you've been GM'ing for a decade or so, it
                            > gives little news. Nothing much to add to the game system either, except
                            a
                            > few pages of equipment. Disappointing...

                            I feel like I have to play devil's advocate here :) I've been GMing
                            since 1980 (T$R to begin with, Hero system, C of C, Cyberpunk,
                            Rolemaster, diceless games, games through the mail, etc., and I liked GM
                            law a lot. There were a lot of things in there that I do, but hadn't
                            realized why. They dealt with questions of GMing that I've never had
                            arrise. Of course, there were a lot of things I think are important that
                            they didn't deal with (like Trauth Theorem #219: "The GM is NOT a
                            television
                            and gaming is NOT a spectator sport.), but I still thought it was useful,
                            as well as fun to read.

                            There has been quite a thread going lately on what kind of supplement is
                            best. Well, this kind of supplement is the sort I enjoy --
                            the kind that gives general advice on how to accomplish something but
                            doesn't do it for you. I guess I'll always prefer my own inventions to
                            someone elses, but often it is hard to know where to start with a big
                            project. What is maybe my most fav. supplement of all times is like
                            this -- the GURPS religion supplement. To each his (or her) own, of
                            course. I mean, some people even still play AD&D... :)
                            Laura
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