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RCAS Meeting This Saturday at 2PM will be epic!

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  • godzilla56@sbcglobal.net
    Greetings to all RCAS: As we announced at our last general meeting this month is a subject month where the club focuses on a new item, equipment,
    Message 1 of 40 , Mar 11 1:09 PM
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      Greetings to all RCAS: 
         As we announced at our last general meeting this month is a "subject" month where the club focuses on a new item, equipment, technology etc for the meeting. Due to the effort required for this it can't happen monthly nor will it be repeated if you miss it. The third Saturday is here in a few days as this is a month with 5 Saturdays (ugh!). Secondly, note the meeting time is 2PM, not the normal start time. Bjorns is starting a new information academy on a variety of subjects so we will get the room after they finish.
        Now for the good part. Have you ever heard native DSD files? We have read about them in our audiophile magazines and at this years CES and Rocky Mountain show it was hard to find a DAC without a DSD decoder. Remember, we are not talking about SACD or PCM converted files, but native true DSD. Whether you want it or not DSD seems to be the current 'big thing" to include new downloads in that format.  John will be bringing the new Sony DSD server to the meeting. I will be bringing one of the last Sony ES CD players.
      We will listen to a rebook CD version of a song, and also a DSD version. Of course we want to keep things interesting, so you won't know which file we are playing. We will tally votes after each 2 song session and after voting see how many of you can pick DSD from Redbook CD. This is real world stuff, not esoteric shoot at the moon double blind testing with prima donna audio golden ears (wow!). We don't pretend to be scientific but our results are pretty darn good from past tests in this manner. What I want to hear, and I think others will also, is can you really hear the difference? Is it worth buying a DSD DAC or server if so? This is an individual question of course but honestly we (John and I) don't have an opinion…yet. We will also have a DSD white paper and a recent review on the Sony server for members. 
        Please don't forget to see Joe about your dues if you have not paid. Cash only right now.
      Saturday, 2PM at Bjorns, see you there!  


      P.S. I doubt there will be time for member music as we have 10 DSD selections and we need to listen to each title twice and compile results. However, one or two CD's may still be slipped in if we run short. 

    • Alan Hendler
      Great, I will get in touch and we can look at  April Alan ________________________________ From: Charles Peterson To:
      Message 40 of 40 , Mar 19 9:38 PM
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        I will get in touch and we can look at  April
        From: Charles Peterson <charlesp@...>
        To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 10:41 PM
        Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] RCAS Meeting This Saturday at 2PM will be epic!
        Maybe not that opposite after all.  Don't we both like classical too?  I have about 50% classical and the rest rock and jazz.  Sounds like a good idea.  Maybe can do first Sunday in April.  Will be somewhat straightened out by then.  Be warned that I can't do serious loudness.  95 or 100 dB peaks and that is all, despite twin monster subs and kilowatt amp.  That's the way it goes with the smaller Acoustats.  For me it's quality, not quantity (though non-audiophile friends still think I play too loud).  BTW, there's also been a vacant house across the street for almost 2 years.  I heard you might be interested in a detached home.  Not sure if you'd like the neighborhood, but it would be about as cheap as it gets in SA, and there's nowhere to go but up, especially next to me.  I know what it sold for at foreclosure to the bank and could cosign.

        On Mar 19, 2014, at 9:45 PM, Alan Hendler wrote:

        Hey Charles,
        I agree with your pcm vs dsd conclusion. As you probable know I take it
        even further. I believe redbook cds can be as good and usually better than any
        so called Hi-Rez if played back on a really good cd player.
        I would love to hear your system sometime and discuss audio with you because I think we have very
        opposite viewpoints on sound reproduction. My view is that the less processing the
        better. Let me know if you have some time to get together
        Alan Hendler

        From: Charles Peterson <charlesp@...>
        To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Wednesday, March 19, 2014 6:46 PM
        Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] RCAS Meeting This Saturday at 2PM will be epic!
        Thanks Don for all the DSD info.  And Big Thanks to Bob and others for another wonderful, useful, and fun meeting!  I put this up with the similar meeting last year when Don tested high rez PCM formats.  I was sorry I had to miss the afterparty dinner this time, I greatly enjoyed and learned stuff at the dinner last time.

        After all my questions, I hope you won't be too disappointed that I have decided not to implement a pure DSD path in my audio systems.  Firstly, I can't, because all my systems use extensive digital signal processing (level balance and polarity adjustment, room correction, speaker correction, crossover) and digital signal processing basically requires PCM.  No matter how I do this (even "my" way of not doing mathematical format conversion, but rather re-digitizing the analog outputs of an SACD player with a high rez Analog to Digital converter) I can't escape the fact that I ultimately have to convert to PCM, or give up my way of making high performance audio systems work.  And conversion to PCM by definition means I can't have a pure DSD path.

        Secondly, I have decided for now I that I like high rez PCM better.  My feeling right now is that high rez PCM is better sounding than DSD, as well as more practical, flexible, and easy to work with.  I have in the past and will continue attempting to obtain the best masterings in high rez PCM first, then SACD, then DSD, then Redbook.  If I am forced to obtain the best quality mastering from DSD files, I will likely let a high rez server of some kind (which currently I don't have) do the conversion to PCM for me, then use SPDIF or HDMI to transmit from computer to playback system, or write to DVD's in 24/96 or above, and play them on the universal disc players I have in every system, as had long been my plan, but never actually done yet.  (one reviewer I like insists that disc players sound better than servers--and this now makes a lot of sense to me, though I know the prevailing audiophile opinion now seems to go in the opposite direction).

        After the meeting, I did loads and loads of scouring papers and reviews on the web, re-considering all my own experiences, and rethinking.  I have written this up in an already very long and still evolving post on my website filled with almost a dozen links:

        Nevertheless, I will always be open to hearing future demonstrations of DSD, and other audiophile things.  I will always try to suspend my ideas as well as I can while listening.  And I always enjoy hearing audiophile systems and music as well as hearing other ideas, opinions, and instructions.


        On Mar 15, 2014, at 8:03 PM, Don Disbennett wrote:

        Hi, Charles:
        FWIW, many players, including the Oppo will not output anything via the coax/optical SPDIF outputs when playing back SACD/DSD because SPDIF does not have DRM, so one must use either HDMI or analog for those formats.
        Sent: Saturday, March 15, 2014 12:43 PM

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