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Proposal for possible meeting activity

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  • thudeets
    Would any RCAS members be interested in doing critical listening sessions in a meeting? Each member who wanted to take a turn could put together a critical
    Message 1 of 21 , Feb 12, 2013
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      Would any RCAS members be interested in doing critical listening sessions in a meeting? Each member who wanted to take a turn could put together a critical listening session comprised of their favorite performing artist, genre, composter, etc. It could be up to four hours long. This would give everyone the opportunity to hear music that they may not otherwise have been exposed to; and they could also learn about what music other members like, and they might find a new favorite artist. Plus those who are presenting might find it particularly enjoyable sharing music they find interesting with the group.

      Bringing in a good audio system would have its benefits. All the components would have to be a good fit in order to get the most out of this type of activity.

      Would anyone else be willing to try out a critical listening session? Would anyone be willing to bring in the components for a good system and participate?

      ---Matt
    • pierrema333
      Hi. Excellent idea. I am very interested. Count on me. Pierre Martinez.
      Message 2 of 21 , Feb 12, 2013
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        Hi. Excellent idea. I am very interested.

        Count on me.

        Pierre Martinez.

        --- In rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com, "thudeets" wrote:
        >
        > Would any RCAS members be interested in doing critical listening sessions in a meeting? Each member who wanted to take a turn could put together a critical listening session comprised of their favorite performing artist, genre, composter, etc. It could be up to four hours long. This would give everyone the opportunity to hear music that they may not otherwise have been exposed to; and they could also learn about what music other members like, and they might find a new favorite artist. Plus those who are presenting might find it particularly enjoyable sharing music they find interesting with the group.
        >
        > Bringing in a good audio system would have its benefits. All the components would have to be a good fit in order to get the most out of this type of activity.
        >
        > Would anyone else be willing to try out a critical listening session? Would anyone be willing to bring in the components for a good system and participate?
        >
        > ---Matt
        >
      • Alan Hendler
        I would happy to do it. Both the music and a system Alan ________________________________ From:pierrema333
        Message 3 of 21 , Feb 12, 2013
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          I would happy to do it. Both the music
          and a system
          Alan



          From: pierrema333 <roig@...>
          To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tue, February 12, 2013 9:39:16 PM
          Subject: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity

           

          Hi. Excellent idea. I am very interested.

          Count on me.

          Pierre Martinez.

          --- In rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com, "thudeets" wrote:
          >
          > Would any RCAS members be interested in doing critical listening sessions in a meeting? Each member who wanted to take a turn could put together a critical listening session comprised of their favorite performing artist, genre, composter, etc. It could be up to four hours long. This would give everyone the opportunity to hear music that they may not otherwise have been exposed to; and they could also learn about what music other members like, and they might find a new favorite artist. Plus those who are presenting might find it particularly enjoyable sharing music they find interesting with the group.
          >
          > Bringing in a good audio system would have its benefits. All the components would have to be a good fit in order to get the most out of this type of activity.
          >
          > Would anyone else be willing to try out a critical listening session? Would anyone be willing to bring in the components for a good system and participate?
          >
          > ---Matt
          >

        • stevenzaiontz
          Great idea, Matt. Looking forward to it. -Steven
          Message 4 of 21 , Feb 13, 2013
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            Great idea, Matt. Looking forward to it.

            -Steven

            --- In rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com, Alan Hendler wrote:
            >
            > I would happy to do it. Both the music
            > and a system
            > Alan
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ________________________________
            > From:pierrema333
            > To:rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Tue, February 12, 2013 9:39:16 PM
            > Subject: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
            >
            >
            > Hi. Excellent idea. I am very interested.
            >
            > Count on me.
            >
            > Pierre Martinez.
            >
            > --- In rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com, "thudeets" wrote:
            > >
            > > Would any RCAS members be interested in doing critical listening sessions in a
            > >meeting? Each member who wanted to take a turn could put together a critical
            > >listening session comprised of their favorite performing artist, genre,
            > >composter, etc. It could be up to four hours long. This would give everyone the
            > >opportunity to hear music that they may not otherwise have been exposed to; and
            > >they could also learn about what music other members like, and they might find a
            > >new favorite artist. Plus those who are presenting might find it particularly
            > >enjoyable sharing music they find interesting with the group.
            > >
            > >
            > > Bringing in a good audio system would have its benefits. All the components
            > >would have to be a good fit in order to get the most out of this type of
            > >activity.
            > >
            > >
            > > Would anyone else be willing to try out a critical listening session? Would
            > >anyone be willing to bring in the components for a good system and participate?
            > >
            > > ---Matt
            > >
            >
          • Matt
            Steve, Alan, Pierre: Following up on the idea of a critical listening session meeting. Your input, concerns, and questions, and requests for clarification are
            Message 5 of 21 , Feb 16, 2013
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              Steve, Alan, Pierre:
              Following up on the idea of a critical listening session meeting. Your input, concerns, and questions, and requests for clarification are requested ----
              If all pans out, what say you about doing a listening session late in March (30th)? I have offered to Bob to be the guinea pig and conduct the maident voyage session if we get that far.
              There are logistical items that need to be worked out, however my hope is having it in late march will allow enough time for that.
              Due to the equipment I want to use in my session the family room at Bjorns has its problems. Also getting the equipment to the venue will require planning on my part for the March session. (or on the part of the presenter at future sessions)
              At the risk of putting the cart before the horse allow me to give you a list of what I hope to bring to the meeting in late March if we snag the venue. (Venue details forthcoming)
              Please let me know if you have any concerns, questions or suggestions:
              Five custom built component stands
              power cords
              Wire world RCA interconnects
              Jolida integrated tube amp
              Rega turntable
              Rega CD player
              Pair of Klipsch subwoofers (KSW200s)
              Pair of tower Klipsch Speaker (KLF-20s)
              Odds and ends like an 8-outlet audiophile grade power strip & power conditioner
               My music program (for the critical listening part) would be -- Frank Zappa the music and the Man Session program and outline forthcoming. My hope is this would be a fun and informative session and a great reason to have a meeting in March.
              Again your input, concerns, questions, and requests for clarification are needed and welcome.
               
              From: stevenzaiontz <szaiontz@...>
              To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
              Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:34 AM
              Subject: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
               
              Great idea, Matt. Looking forward to it. -Steven
              --- In mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com, Alan Hendler wrote: > > I would happy to do it. Both the music > and a system > Alan > > > > > > ________________________________ > From:pierrema333 > To:mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, February 12, 2013 9:39:16 PM > Subject: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity > > > Hi. Excellent idea. I am very interested. > > Count on me. > > Pierre Martinez. > > --- In mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com, "thudeets" wrote: > > > > Would any RCAS members be interested in doing critical listening sessions in a > >meeting? Each member who wanted to take a turn could put together a critical > >listening session comprised of their favorite performing artist, genre, > >composter, etc. It could be up to four hours long. This would give everyone the > >opportunity to hear music that they may not otherwise have been exposed to; and > >they could also learn about what music other members like, and they might find a > >new favorite artist. Plus those who are presenting might find it particularly > >enjoyable sharing music they find interesting with the group. > > > > > > Bringing in a good audio system would have its benefits. All the components > >would have to be a good fit in order to get the most out of this type of > >activity. > > > > > > Would anyone else be willing to try out a critical listening session? Would > >anyone be willing to bring in the components for a good system and participate? > > > > ---Matt > > >
            • Alan Hendler
              Matt, Since this is about the music are you sure you want to bring all that equipment. As you know we all have great stuff we could bring. I could supply my cd
              Message 6 of 21 , Feb 16, 2013
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                Matt,
                Since this is about the music are you sure you want to bring all that equipment. As you know we all have great
                stuff we could bring. I could supply my cd player with the new Audionote dac. Also moving a turntable
                is risky. I have damaged a turntable in the past by moving it. Unless you have lp's you
                want to play you could avoid this. The family room at Bjorns isn't perfect but none of their other rooms are 
                perfect either. Again is the emphasis here on sound or getting to listen to music which may be new to
                us? 
                Alan



                From: Matt <thudeets@...>
                To: "rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com" <rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Sat, February 16, 2013 8:20:41 AM
                Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity

                 

                Steve, Alan, Pierre:
                Following up on the idea of a critical listening session meeting. Your input, concerns, and questions, and requests for clarification are requested ----
                If all pans out, what say you about doing a listening session late in March (30th)? I have offered to Bob to be the guinea pig and conduct the maident voyage session if we get that far.
                There are logistical items that need to be worked out, however my hope is having it in late march will allow enough time for that.
                Due to the equipment I want to use in my session the family room at Bjorns has its problems. Also getting the equipment to the venue will require planning on my part for the March session. (or on the part of the presenter at future sessions)
                At the risk of putting the cart before the horse allow me to give you a list of what I hope to bring to the meeting in late March if we snag the venue. (Venue details forthcoming)
                Please let me know if you have any concerns, questions or suggestions:
                Five custom built component stands
                power cords
                Wire world RCA interconnects
                Jolida integrated tube amp
                Rega turntable
                Rega CD player
                Pair of Klipsch subwoofers (KSW200s)
                Pair of tower Klipsch Speaker (KLF-20s)
                Odds and ends like an 8-outlet audiophile grade power strip & power conditioner
                 My music program (for the critical listening part) would be -- Frank Zappa the music and the Man Session program and outline forthcoming. My hope is this would be a fun and informative session and a great reason to have a meeting in March.
                Again your input, concerns, questions, and requests for clarification are needed and welcome.
                 
                From: stevenzaiontz <szaiontz@...>
                To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:34 AM
                Subject: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                 
                Great idea, Matt. Looking forward to it. -Steven
                --- In mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com, Alan Hendler wrote: > > I would happy to do it. Both the music > and a system > Alan > > > > > > ________________________________ > From:pierrema333 > To:mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, February 12, 2013 9:39:16 PM > Subject: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity > > > Hi. Excellent idea. I am very interested. > > Count on me. > > Pierre Martinez. > > --- In mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com, "thudeets" wrote: > > > > Would any RCAS members be interested in doing critical listening sessions in a > >meeting? Each member who wanted to take a turn could put together a critical > >listening session comprised of their favorite performing artist, genre, > >composter, etc. It could be up to four hours long. This would give everyone the > >opportunity to hear music that they may not otherwise have been exposed to; and > >they could also learn about what music other members like, and they might find a > >new favorite artist. Plus those who are presenting might find it particularly > >enjoyable sharing music they find interesting with the group. > > > > > > Bringing in a good audio system would have its benefits. All the components > >would have to be a good fit in order to get the most out of this type of > >activity. > > > > > > Would anyone else be willing to try out a critical listening session? Would > >anyone be willing to bring in the components for a good system and participate? > > > > ---Matt > > >
              • Don Disbennett
                Hi, Matt: I am a bit confused about your use of the term “critical listening” to describe the proposed meeting of the RCAS next month. Normally, when I
                Message 7 of 21 , Feb 16, 2013
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                  Hi, Matt:

                  I am a bit confused about your use of the term “critical listening” to describe the proposed meeting of the RCAS next month.  Normally, when I use the term, I am referring to listening carefully to a piece of high quality music (wide dynamic range, low noise, little or no compression, etc.) with which I am very familiar over a system in which I have made some change which I am trying to evaluate.  It could be a change to an amplifier, speakers, DAC, turntable or even a tweak such as new cables, new position of the speakers, or interconnects.  I then listen to see if the change in the part of the system I am evaluating produces better sound, more detail, wider frequency range, lower noise floor or any other variable related to the reproduction of this piece of music for better or worse.  This is opposed to just listening to a variety of music over the same system, such as we usually do at the end of our RCAS meetings.  Everyone is invited to bring some of their music and play it on the system we have been using during the meeting.  On the other hand, it one wishes to evaluate the quality of a particular piece of music, it is played on a very high quality system to evaluate the music itself, subject to the limitations of that system.  I guess what I am saying is that from your description of the setup thus far, I am not sure which of the above scenarios (or something different entirely) we are trying to do at the proposed meeting.
                  Sorry if I am missing something!
                   
                  Don
                   
                  From: Matt
                  Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 8:20 AM
                  Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                   
                   

                  Steve, Alan, Pierre:
                  Following up on the idea of a critical listening session meeting. Your input, concerns, and questions, and requests for clarification are requested ----
                  If all pans out, what say you about doing a listening session late in March (30th)? I have offered to Bob to be the guinea pig and conduct the maident voyage session if we get that far.
                  There are logistical items that need to be worked out, however my hope is having it in late march will allow enough time for that.
                  Due to the equipment I want to use in my session the family room at Bjorns has its problems. Also getting the equipment to the venue will require planning on my part for the March session. (or on the part of the presenter at future sessions)
                  At the risk of putting the cart before the horse allow me to give you a list of what I hope to bring to the meeting in late March if we snag the venue. (Venue details forthcoming)
                  Please let me know if you have any concerns, questions or suggestions:
                  Five custom built component stands
                  power cords
                  Wire world RCA interconnects
                  Jolida integrated tube amp
                  Rega turntable
                  Rega CD player
                  Pair of Klipsch subwoofers (KSW200s)
                  Pair of tower Klipsch Speaker (KLF-20s)
                  Odds and ends like an 8-outlet audiophile grade power strip & power conditioner
                   My music program (for the critical listening part) would be -- Frank Zappa the music and the Man Session program and outline forthcoming. My hope is this would be a fun and informative session and a great reason to have a meeting in March.
                  Again your input, concerns, questions, and requests for clarification are needed and welcome.
                  From: stevenzaiontz <szaiontz@...>
                  To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:34 AM
                  Subject: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                   
                  Great idea, Matt. Looking forward to it. -Steven --- In mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com, Alan Hendler wrote: > > I would happy to do it. Both the music > and a system > Alan > > > > > > ________________________________
                  > From:pierrema333 > To:
                  href="mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com">mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com
                  > Sent: Tue, February 12, 2013 9:39:16 PM > Subject:
                  [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity > >
                  > Hi. Excellent idea. I am very interested. > > Count on me. > >
                  Pierre Martinez. > > --- In mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com, "thudeets" wrote: > > > > Would any RCAS members be interested in doing critical listening sessions in a > >meeting? Each member who wanted to take a turn could put together a critical > >listening session comprised of their favorite performing artist, genre, > >composter, etc. It could be up to four hours long. This would give everyone the >
                  >opportunity to hear music that they may not otherwise have been exposed to;
                  and > >they could also learn about what music other members like, and they might find a > >new favorite artist. Plus those who are presenting might find it particularly > >enjoyable sharing music they find interesting with the group. > > > > > > Bringing in a good audio system would have its benefits. All the components > >would have to be a good fit in order to get the most out of this type of > >activity. > > > >
                  > > Would anyone else be willing to try out a critical listening session?
                  Would > >anyone be willing to bring in the components for a good system and participate? > > > > ---Matt > > >
                • Alan Hendler
                  Don, Good points. The question is; what is the focus? Are we talking about evaluating equipment or evaluating the music we listen to. It seems to me most of
                  Message 8 of 21 , Feb 16, 2013
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                    Don,
                    Good points. The question is; what is the focus?
                    Are we talking about evaluating equipment or evaluating
                    the music we listen to. It seems to me most of our meetings are devoted to equipment
                    and this was a proposal to listen to music. Evaluating music can be done on any
                    system, even a boom box. I would like this to be about music but I will do
                    whatever most people here want to do. I have been doing both all my life
                    Alan


                    From: Don Disbennett <ddisbennett@...>
                    To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Sat, February 16, 2013 12:38:38 PM
                    Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity

                     

                    Hi, Matt:

                    I am a bit confused about your use of the term “critical listening” to describe the proposed meeting of the RCAS next month.  Normally, when I use the term, I am referring to listening carefully to a piece of high quality music (wide dynamic range, low noise, little or no compression, etc.) with which I am very familiar over a system in which I have made some change which I am trying to evaluate.  It could be a change to an amplifier, speakers, DAC, turntable or even a tweak such as new cables, new position of the speakers, or interconnects.  I then listen to see if the change in the part of the system I am evaluating produces better sound, more detail, wider frequency range, lower noise floor or any other variable related to the reproduction of this piece of music for better or worse.  This is opposed to just listening to a variety of music over the same system, such as we usually do at the end of our RCAS meetings.  Everyone is invited to bring some of their music and play it on the system we have been using during the meeting.  On the other hand, it one wishes to evaluate the quality of a particular piece of music, it is played on a very high quality system to evaluate the music itself, subject to the limitations of that system.  I guess what I am saying is that from your description of the setup thus far, I am not sure which of the above scenarios (or something different entirely) we are trying to do at the proposed meeting.
                    Sorry if I am missing something!
                     
                    Don
                     
                    From: Matt
                    Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 8:20 AM
                    Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                     
                     

                    Steve, Alan, Pierre:
                    Following up on the idea of a critical listening session meeting. Your input, concerns, and questions, and requests for clarification are requested ----
                    If all pans out, what say you about doing a listening session late in March (30th)? I have offered to Bob to be the guinea pig and conduct the maident voyage session if we get that far.
                    There are logistical items that need to be worked out, however my hope is having it in late march will allow enough time for that.
                    Due to the equipment I want to use in my session the family room at Bjorns has its problems. Also getting the equipment to the venue will require planning on my part for the March session. (or on the part of the presenter at future sessions)
                    At the risk of putting the cart before the horse allow me to give you a list of what I hope to bring to the meeting in late March if we snag the venue. (Venue details forthcoming)
                    Please let me know if you have any concerns, questions or suggestions:
                    Five custom built component stands
                    power cords
                    Wire world RCA interconnects
                    Jolida integrated tube amp
                    Rega turntable
                    Rega CD player
                    Pair of Klipsch subwoofers (KSW200s)
                    Pair of tower Klipsch Speaker (KLF-20s)
                    Odds and ends like an 8-outlet audiophile grade power strip & power conditioner
                     My music program (for the critical listening part) would be -- Frank Zappa the music and the Man Session program and outline forthcoming. My hope is this would be a fun and informative session and a great reason to have a meeting in March.
                    Again your input, concerns, questions, and requests for clarification are needed and welcome.
                    From: stevenzaiontz <szaiontz@...>
                    To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:34 AM
                    Subject: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                     
                    Great idea, Matt. Looking forward to it. -Steven --- In mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com, Alan Hendler wrote: > > I would happy to do it. Both the music > and a system > Alan > > > > > > ________________________________
                    > From:pierrema333 > To:mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, February 12, 2013 9:39:16 PM > Subject:
                    [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity > >
                    > Hi. Excellent idea. I am very interested. > > Count on me. > >
                    Pierre Martinez. > > --- In mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com, "thudeets" wrote: > > > > Would any RCAS members be interested in doing critical listening sessions in a > >meeting? Each member who wanted to take a turn could put together a critical > >listening session comprised of their favorite performing artist, genre, > >composter, etc. It could be up to four hours long. This would give everyone the >
                    >opportunity to hear music that they may not otherwise have been exposed to;
                    and > >they could also learn about what music other members like, and they might find a > >new favorite artist. Plus those who are presenting might find it particularly > >enjoyable sharing music they find interesting with the group. > > > > > > Bringing in a good audio system would have its benefits. All the components > >would have to be a good fit in order to get the most out of this type of > >activity. > > > >
                    > > Would anyone else be willing to try out a critical listening session?
                    Would > >anyone be willing to bring in the components for a good system and participate? > > > > ---Matt > > >
                  • Matt
                    Alan, Just got through reading the great input from you and Don. I probably do want to play off of some albums. Some of the passages I am programing into the
                    Message 9 of 21 , Feb 16, 2013
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                      Alan,
                      Just got through reading the great input from you and Don.
                      I probably do want to play off of some albums. Some of the passages I am programing into the session need to be heard through their original format. That said the emphasis is on the music (the compsition, artistic expression, complexity or elegance, cultural and/or chronological significance, etc. etc.)
                       
                      I am thinking that the gear is important but not the focus. Should be a system where the components are known to fit together well. Either the owner of the components knows or the components have been reviewed positively as a nice gistalt when hooked up to eachother. I've heard your system, It would definitely fit the bill for a "critical listening" session. That said it should be the call of the presenter for that session as to how far they want to go with assembling a CLS system. 
                       
                      I hope this makes some sense. If not please let me know. I like where the dialogue is going. 
                       
                      Personally I would prefer a room like the training room if that is possible. Even with it's warts it is a better venue than the family room. May not be possible, but that would be my hope even though I agree that it is nowhere near REAL critical listening venue quality.
                      ---Matt
                      From: Alan Hendler <alanhendler@...>
                      To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 8:50 AM
                      Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                       
                      Matt,
                      Since this is about the music are you sure you want to bring all that equipment. As you know we all have great
                      stuff we could bring. I could supply my cd player with the new Audionote dac. Also moving a turntable
                      is risky. I have damaged a turntable in the past by moving it. Unless you have lp's you
                      want to play you could avoid this. The family room at Bjorns isn't perfect but none of their other rooms are 
                      perfect either. Again is the emphasis here on sound or getting to listen to music which may be new to
                      us? 
                      Alan


                      From: Matt <thudeets@...>
                      To: "rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com" <rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Sat, February 16, 2013 8:20:41 AM
                      Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                       
                      Steve, Alan, Pierre:
                      Following up on the idea of a critical listening session meeting. Your input, concerns, and questions, and requests for clarification are requested ----
                      If all pans out, what say you about doing a listening session late in March (30th)? I have offered to Bob to be the guinea pig and conduct the maident voyage session if we get that far.
                      There are logistical items that need to be worked out, however my hope is having it in late march will allow enough time for that.
                      Due to the equipment I want to use in my session the family room at Bjorns has its problems. Also getting the equipment to the venue will require planning on my part for the March session. (or on the part of the presenter at future sessions)
                      At the risk of putting the cart before the horse allow me to give you a list of what I hope to bring to the meeting in late March if we snag the venue. (Venue details forthcoming)
                      Please let me know if you have any concerns, questions or suggestions:
                      Five custom built component stands
                      power cords
                      Wire world RCA interconnects
                      Jolida integrated tube amp
                      Rega turntable
                      Rega CD player
                      Pair of Klipsch subwoofers (KSW200s)
                      Pair of tower Klipsch Speaker (KLF-20s)
                      Odds and ends like an 8-outlet audiophile grade power strip & power conditioner
                       My music program (for the critical listening part) would be -- Frank Zappa the music and the Man Session program and outline forthcoming. My hope is this would be a fun and informative session and a great reason to have a meeting in March.
                      Again your input, concerns, questions, and requests for clarification are needed and welcome.
                       
                      From: stevenzaiontz <szaiontz@...>
                      To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:34 AM
                      Subject: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                       
                      Great idea, Matt. Looking forward to it. -Steven
                      --- In mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com, Alan Hendler wrote: > > I would happy to do it. Both the music > and a system > Alan > > > > > > ________________________________ > From:pierrema333 > To:mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, February 12, 2013 9:39:16 PM > Subject: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity > > > Hi. Excellent idea. I am very interested. > > Count on me. > > Pierre Martinez. > > --- In mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com, "thudeets" wrote: > > > > Would any RCAS members be interested in doing critical listening sessions in a > >meeting? Each member who wanted to take a turn could put together a critical > >listening session comprised of their favorite performing artist, genre, > >composter, etc. It could be up to four hours long. This would give everyone the > >opportunity to hear music that they may not otherwise have been exposed to; and > >they could also learn about what music other members like, and they might find a > >new favorite artist. Plus those who are presenting might find it particularly > >enjoyable sharing music they find interesting with the group. > > > > > > Bringing in a good audio system would have its benefits. All the components > >would have to be a good fit in order to get the most out of this type of > >activity. > > > > > > Would anyone else be willing to try out a critical listening session? Would > >anyone be willing to bring in the components for a good system and participate? > > > > ---Matt > > >
                    • Matt
                      Don, I would love to have one of those types of critical listening sessions, however a session in which a system is tweaked the way you describe may not be
                      Message 10 of 21 , Feb 16, 2013
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Don,
                        I would love to have one of those types of critical listening sessions, however a session in which a system is tweaked the way you describe may not be possible due to time restrictions and venue limitations. Not to say someone couldn't pick up the ball and run with it. I guess the scenario you describe of playing music on a very high quality system to evaluate the music itself, subject to the limitations of that system comes closest to what we are trying to do  ----
                         
                        With some variations -- I would not describe the system I am proposing for my session as a very high quality system. However, my hope is it is a system that fits together well and will provide a good listening experience and do justice to the focus of the meeting which will be the music of Frank Zappa.
                        My apologies for possible misperceptions regarding the use of the word "critical". While the word has some rigid connotations I am actually using it loosely. Real critical listening sessions like the ones you are describing are out of my league. That does not mean I would not love to have some. I just am not the guy to conduct at that particular one. My hope for the critical listening session I would conduct (if it gets off the ground) is for a less rigid, or “critical” bent. My hope is the fun and relaxed atmosphere that has been an important part of what makes the RCAS meetings so great should carry over into a critical listening session, with a few obvious guidelines set down regarding the need for equipment that would be a good fit.
                        I am proposing to focus on the music for the meeting rather than the equipment, although the equipment should be an important component of the session. Absolutely
                         
                        From: Don Disbennett <ddisbennett@...>
                        To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 12:37 PM
                        Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                         
                        Hi, Matt:
                        I am a bit confused about your use of the term “critical listening” to describe the proposed meeting of the RCAS next month.  Normally, when I use the term, I am referring to listening carefully to a piece of high quality music (wide dynamic range, low noise, little or no compression, etc.) with which I am very familiar over a system in which I have made some change which I am trying to evaluate.  It could be a change to an amplifier, speakers, DAC, turntable or even a tweak such as new cables, new position of the speakers, or interconnects.  I then listen to see if the change in the part of the system I am evaluating produces better sound, more detail, wider frequency range, lower noise floor or any other variable related to the reproduction of this piece of music for better or worse.  This is opposed to just listening to a variety of music over the same system, such as we usually do at the end of our RCAS meetings.  Everyone is invited to bring some of their music and play it on the system we have been using during the meeting.  On the other hand, it one wishes to evaluate the quality of a particular piece of music, it is played on a very high quality system to evaluate the music itself, subject to the limitations of that system.  I guess what I am saying is that from your description of the setup thus far, I am not sure which of the above scenarios (or something different entirely) we are trying to do at the proposed meeting.
                        Sorry if I am missing something!
                         
                        Don
                         
                        From: Matt
                        Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 8:20 AM
                        Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                         
                         
                        Steve, Alan, Pierre:
                        Following up on the idea of a critical listening session meeting. Your input, concerns, and questions, and requests for clarification are requested ----
                        If all pans out, what say you about doing a listening session late in March (30th)? I have offered to Bob to be the guinea pig and conduct the maident voyage session if we get that far.
                        There are logistical items that need to be worked out, however my hope is having it in late march will allow enough time for that.
                        Due to the equipment I want to use in my session the family room at Bjorns has its problems. Also getting the equipment to the venue will require planning on my part for the March session. (or on the part of the presenter at future sessions)
                        At the risk of putting the cart before the horse allow me to give you a list of what I hope to bring to the meeting in late March if we snag the venue. (Venue details forthcoming)
                        Please let me know if you have any concerns, questions or suggestions:
                        Five custom built component stands
                        power cords
                        Wire world RCA interconnects
                        Jolida integrated tube amp
                        Rega turntable
                        Rega CD player
                        Pair of Klipsch subwoofers (KSW200s)
                        Pair of tower Klipsch Speaker (KLF-20s)
                        Odds and ends like an 8-outlet audiophile grade power strip & power conditioner
                         My music program (for the critical listening part) would be -- Frank Zappa the music and the Man Session program and outline forthcoming. My hope is this would be a fun and informative session and a great reason to have a meeting in March.
                        Again your input, concerns, questions, and requests for clarification are needed and welcome.
                        From: stevenzaiontz <szaiontz@...>
                        To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:34 AM
                        Subject: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                         
                        Great idea, Matt. Looking forward to it. -Steven --- In mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com, Alan Hendler wrote: > > I would happy to do it. Both the music > and a system > Alan > > > > > > ________________________________
                        > From:pierrema333 > To:mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, February 12, 2013 9:39:16 PM > Subject:
                        [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity > >
                        > Hi. Excellent idea. I am very interested. > > Count on me. > >
                        Pierre Martinez. > > --- In mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com, "thudeets" wrote: > > > > Would any RCAS members be interested in doing critical listening sessions in a > >meeting? Each member who wanted to take a turn could put together a critical > >listening session comprised of their favorite performing artist, genre, > >composter, etc. It could be up to four hours long. This would give everyone the >
                        >opportunity to hear music that they may not otherwise have been exposed to;
                        and > >they could also learn about what music other members like, and they might find a > >new favorite artist. Plus those who are presenting might find it particularly > >enjoyable sharing music they find interesting with the group. > > > > > > Bringing in a good audio system would have its benefits. All the components > >would have to be a good fit in order to get the most out of this type of > >activity. > > > >
                        > > Would anyone else be willing to try out a critical listening session?
                        Would > >anyone be willing to bring in the components for a good system and participate? > > > > ---Matt > > >
                      • Don Disbennett
                        Matt: OK, I am starting to understand a bit better what you are proposing. However, I would add two caveats: first, although the focus is on the music, I
                        Message 11 of 21 , Feb 16, 2013
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Matt:
                           
                          OK, I am starting to understand a bit better what you are proposing.  However, I would add two caveats:  first, although the focus is on the music, I think most/all of the RCAS members are used to listening to their music on a high quality system, so even though it may not be their system or even a “state of the art” system, it should be of sufficiently high quality to allow the quality of the music (good or bad) to come through; secondly, although we each have our favorites when it comes to a certain artist, I doubt that the other members would want to listen to three or four hours of my favorite artist alone.  I hope I didn’t step on your toes, Matt, as that certainly is not my intent to offend anyone, but I just feel that for a meeting with members representing a wide variety of tastes in music, we may need to vary the content enough to suit the majority of the members attending.  Or I could just bring my collection of Liberace songs, because I know EVERYONE loves his music!  LOL
                          Also, I would be more than happy to bring any equipment you may need:  I can bring my NAD power amp or NAD integrated amp or one of my DAC’s or even my laptop full of music, including quite a few high rez downloads which is what we used at Ulises house a few weekends ago.
                          Let me know if I can help in any way!
                           
                          Don
                           
                          From: Matt
                          Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 6:42 PM
                          Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                           
                           

                          Don,
                          I would love to have one of those types of critical listening sessions, however a session in which a system is tweaked the way you describe may not be possible due to time restrictions and venue limitations. Not to say someone couldn't pick up the ball and run with it. I guess the scenario you describe of playing music on a very high quality system to evaluate the music itself, subject to the limitations of that system comes closest to what we are trying to do  ----
                           
                          With some variations -- I would not describe the system I am proposing for my session as a very high quality system. However, my hope is it is a system that fits together well and will provide a good listening experience and do justice to the focus of the meeting which will be the music of Frank Zappa.
                          My apologies for possible misperceptions regarding the use of the word "critical". While the word has some rigid connotations I am actually using it loosely. Real critical listening sessions like the ones you are describing are out of my league. That does not mean I would not love to have some. I just am not the guy to conduct at that particular one. My hope for the critical listening session I would conduct (if it gets off the ground) is for a less rigid, or “critical” bent. My hope is the fun and relaxed atmosphere that has been an important part of what makes the RCAS meetings so great should carry over into a critical listening session, with a few obvious guidelines set down regarding the need for equipment that would be a good fit.
                          I am proposing to focus on the music for the meeting rather than the equipment, although the equipment should be an important component of the session. Absolutely
                          From: Don Disbennett <ddisbennett@...>
                          To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 12:37 PM
                          Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                           
                          Hi, Matt:
                          I am a bit confused about your use of the term “critical listening” to describe the proposed meeting of the RCAS next month.  Normally, when I use the term, I am referring to listening carefully to a piece of high quality music (wide dynamic range, low noise, little or no compression, etc.) with which I am very familiar over a system in which I have made some change which I am trying to evaluate.  It could be a change to an amplifier, speakers, DAC, turntable or even a tweak such as new cables, new position of the speakers, or interconnects.  I then listen to see if the change in the part of the system I am evaluating produces better sound, more detail, wider frequency range, lower noise floor or any other variable related to the reproduction of this piece of music for better or worse.  This is opposed to just listening to a variety of music over the same system, such as we usually do at the end of our RCAS meetings.  Everyone is invited to bring some of their music and play it on the system we have been using during the meeting.  On the other hand, it one wishes to evaluate the quality of a particular piece of music, it is played on a very high quality system to evaluate the music itself, subject to the limitations of that system.  I guess what I am saying is that from your description of the setup thus far, I am not sure which of the above scenarios (or something different entirely) we are trying to do at the proposed meeting.
                          Sorry if I am missing something!
                           
                          Don
                           
                          From: Matt
                          Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 8:20 AM
                          Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                           
                           
                          Steve, Alan, Pierre:
                          Following up on the idea of a critical listening session meeting. Your input, concerns, and questions, and requests for clarification are requested ----
                          If all pans out, what say you about doing a listening session late in March (30th)? I have offered to Bob to be the guinea pig and conduct the maident voyage session if we get that far.
                          There are logistical items that need to be worked out, however my hope is having it in late march will allow enough time for that.
                          Due to the equipment I want to use in my session the family room at Bjorns has its problems. Also getting the equipment to the venue will require planning on my part for the March session. (or on the part of the presenter at future sessions)
                          At the risk of putting the cart before the horse allow me to give you a list of what I hope to bring to the meeting in late March if we snag the venue. (Venue details forthcoming)
                          Please let me know if you have any concerns, questions or suggestions:
                          Five custom built component stands
                          power cords
                          Wire world RCA interconnects
                          Jolida integrated tube amp
                          Rega turntable
                          Rega CD player
                          Pair of Klipsch subwoofers (KSW200s)
                          Pair of tower Klipsch Speaker (KLF-20s)
                          Odds and ends like an 8-outlet audiophile grade power strip & power conditioner
                           My music program (for the critical listening part) would be -- Frank Zappa the music and the Man Session program and outline forthcoming. My hope is this would be a fun and informative session and a great reason to have a meeting in March.
                          Again your input, concerns, questions, and requests for clarification are needed and welcome.
                          From: stevenzaiontz <szaiontz@...>
                          To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:34 AM
                          Subject: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                           
                          Great idea, Matt. Looking forward to it. -Steven --- In mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com, Alan Hendler wrote: > > I would happy to do it. Both the music > and a system > Alan > > > > > > ________________________________
                          > From:pierrema333 > To:
                          href="mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com">mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com
                          > Sent: Tue, February 12, 2013 9:39:16 PM > Subject:
                          [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity > >
                          > Hi. Excellent idea. I am very interested. > > Count on me. > >
                          Pierre Martinez. > > --- In mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com, "thudeets" wrote: > > > > Would any RCAS members be interested in doing critical listening sessions in a > >meeting? Each member who wanted to take a turn could put together a critical > >listening session comprised of their favorite performing artist, genre, > >composter, etc. It could be up to four hours long. This would give everyone the >
                          >opportunity to hear music that they may not otherwise have been exposed to;
                          and > >they could also learn about what music other members like, and they might find a > >new favorite artist. Plus those who are presenting might find it particularly > >enjoyable sharing music they find interesting with the group. > > > > > > Bringing in a good audio system would have its benefits. All the components > >would have to be a good fit in order to get the most out of this type of > >activity. > > > >
                          > > Would anyone else be willing to try out a critical listening session?
                          Would > >anyone be willing to bring in the components for a good system and participate? > > > > ---Matt > > >
                        • Alan Hendler
                          Hey, A Liberace festival!!! Alan ________________________________ From:Don Disbennett To:rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com Sent:
                          Message 12 of 21 , Feb 16, 2013
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Hey,
                            A Liberace festival!!!
                            Alan


                            From: Don Disbennett <ddisbennett@...>
                            To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Sat, February 16, 2013 7:49:42 PM
                            Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity

                             

                            Matt:
                             
                            OK, I am starting to understand a bit better what you are proposing.  However, I would add two caveats:  first, although the focus is on the music, I think most/all of the RCAS members are used to listening to their music on a high quality system, so even though it may not be their system or even a “state of the art” system, it should be of sufficiently high quality to allow the quality of the music (good or bad) to come through; secondly, although we each have our favorites when it comes to a certain artist, I doubt that the other members would want to listen to three or four hours of my favorite artist alone.  I hope I didn’t step on your toes, Matt, as that certainly is not my intent to offend anyone, but I just feel that for a meeting with members representing a wide variety of tastes in music, we may need to vary the content enough to suit the majority of the members attending.  Or I could just bring my collection of Liberace songs, because I know EVERYONE loves his music!  LOL
                            Also, I would be more than happy to bring any equipment you may need:  I can bring my NAD power amp or NAD integrated amp or one of my DAC’s or even my laptop full of music, including quite a few high rez downloads which is what we used at Ulises house a few weekends ago.
                            Let me know if I can help in any way!
                             
                            Don
                             
                            From: Matt
                            Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 6:42 PM
                            Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                             
                             

                            Don,
                            I would love to have one of those types of critical listening sessions, however a session in which a system is tweaked the way you describe may not be possible due to time restrictions and venue limitations. Not to say someone couldn't pick up the ball and run with it. I guess the scenario you describe of playing music on a very high quality system to evaluate the music itself, subject to the limitations of that system comes closest to what we are trying to do  ----
                             
                            With some variations -- I would not describe the system I am proposing for my session as a very high quality system. However, my hope is it is a system that fits together well and will provide a good listening experience and do justice to the focus of the meeting which will be the music of Frank Zappa.
                            My apologies for possible misperceptions regarding the use of the word "critical". While the word has some rigid connotations I am actually using it loosely. Real critical listening sessions like the ones you are describing are out of my league. That does not mean I would not love to have some. I just am not the guy to conduct at that particular one. My hope for the critical listening session I would conduct (if it gets off the ground) is for a less rigid, or “critical” bent. My hope is the fun and relaxed atmosphere that has been an important part of what makes the RCAS meetings so great should carry over into a critical listening session, with a few obvious guidelines set down regarding the need for equipment that would be a good fit.
                            I am proposing to focus on the music for the meeting rather than the equipment, although the equipment should be an important component of the session. Absolutely
                            From: Don Disbennett <ddisbennett@...>
                            To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 12:37 PM
                            Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                             
                            Hi, Matt:
                            I am a bit confused about your use of the term “critical listening” to describe the proposed meeting of the RCAS next month.  Normally, when I use the term, I am referring to listening carefully to a piece of high quality music (wide dynamic range, low noise, little or no compression, etc.) with which I am very familiar over a system in which I have made some change which I am trying to evaluate.  It could be a change to an amplifier, speakers, DAC, turntable or even a tweak such as new cables, new position of the speakers, or interconnects.  I then listen to see if the change in the part of the system I am evaluating produces better sound, more detail, wider frequency range, lower noise floor or any other variable related to the reproduction of this piece of music for better or worse.  This is opposed to just listening to a variety of music over the same system, such as we usually do at the end of our RCAS meetings.  Everyone is invited to bring some of their music and play it on the system we have been using during the meeting.  On the other hand, it one wishes to evaluate the quality of a particular piece of music, it is played on a very high quality system to evaluate the music itself, subject to the limitations of that system.  I guess what I am saying is that from your description of the setup thus far, I am not sure which of the above scenarios (or something different entirely) we are trying to do at the proposed meeting.
                            Sorry if I am missing something!
                             
                            Don
                             
                            From: Matt
                            Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 8:20 AM
                            Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                             
                             
                            Steve, Alan, Pierre:
                            Following up on the idea of a critical listening session meeting. Your input, concerns, and questions, and requests for clarification are requested ----
                            If all pans out, what say you about doing a listening session late in March (30th)? I have offered to Bob to be the guinea pig and conduct the maident voyage session if we get that far.
                            There are logistical items that need to be worked out, however my hope is having it in late march will allow enough time for that.
                            Due to the equipment I want to use in my session the family room at Bjorns has its problems. Also getting the equipment to the venue will require planning on my part for the March session. (or on the part of the presenter at future sessions)
                            At the risk of putting the cart before the horse allow me to give you a list of what I hope to bring to the meeting in late March if we snag the venue. (Venue details forthcoming)
                            Please let me know if you have any concerns, questions or suggestions:
                            Five custom built component stands
                            power cords
                            Wire world RCA interconnects
                            Jolida integrated tube amp
                            Rega turntable
                            Rega CD player
                            Pair of Klipsch subwoofers (KSW200s)
                            Pair of tower Klipsch Speaker (KLF-20s)
                            Odds and ends like an 8-outlet audiophile grade power strip & power conditioner
                             My music program (for the critical listening part) would be -- Frank Zappa the music and the Man Session program and outline forthcoming. My hope is this would be a fun and informative session and a great reason to have a meeting in March.
                            Again your input, concerns, questions, and requests for clarification are needed and welcome.
                            From: stevenzaiontz <szaiontz@...>
                            To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:34 AM
                            Subject: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                             
                            Great idea, Matt. Looking forward to it. -Steven --- In mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com, Alan Hendler wrote: > > I would happy to do it. Both the music > and a system > Alan > > > > > > ________________________________
                            > From:pierrema333 > To:mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, February 12, 2013 9:39:16 PM > Subject:
                            [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity > >
                            > Hi. Excellent idea. I am very interested. > > Count on me. > >
                            Pierre Martinez. > > --- In mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com, "thudeets" wrote: > > > > Would any RCAS members be interested in doing critical listening sessions in a > >meeting? Each member who wanted to take a turn could put together a critical > >listening session comprised of their favorite performing artist, genre, > >composter, etc. It could be up to four hours long. This would give everyone the >
                            >opportunity to hear music that they may not otherwise have been exposed to;
                            and > >they could also learn about what music other members like, and they might find a > >new favorite artist. Plus those who are presenting might find it particularly > >enjoyable sharing music they find interesting with the group. > > > > > > Bringing in a good audio system would have its benefits. All the components > >would have to be a good fit in order to get the most out of this type of > >activity. > > > >
                            > > Would anyone else be willing to try out a critical listening session?
                            Would > >anyone be willing to bring in the components for a good system and participate? > > > > ---Matt > > >
                          • Matt
                            Don, My original thought when making the critical listening session proposal was that the equipment would be by one person because it would be equipment that
                            Message 13 of 21 , Feb 17, 2013
                            • 0 Attachment
                              Don,
                              My original thought when making the "critical" listening session proposal was that the equipment would be by one person because it would be equipment that has a track record of fitting together well; at least in theory. That person ideally would be the person providing the musical programing for the meeting, however it could be anyone. I know you're not a big analogue fan, so I could still bring a turntable. However, if the offer of the NAD integrated amp DAC still stand that might work. Could you provide a set of speakers that you know work well with said amp, and a CD player to go with the DAC? Let me know. That would be great if so. If the concern is lugging the stuff to whatever venue we end up snagging I would be willing to to the loins share of the planning for that part. What say you?
                              I get your concern. I haven't said anything yet because I have not finalized the program, but since you brought up a good point you should know that my plan is to throw in stuff that is not Zappa, that way we're not slogging through three or four hours of my favorite artist alone. That said, if anyone gets bored I would have no problem with members excusing themselves early or opting out completely just like one might do based on the agenda for any one of the RCAS meetings. I've got thick skin and hard toes. No problems there. Also, I think Liberace is a great artist! I would be there.
                              So, NOT 3 to 4 hours of Zappa; my hope however is the program would still be called "Frank Zappa, the Music and the Man" I will throw in lots of stuff from his musical influences such as Varese, Stravinsky, Johnny Guitar Watson, and some of his collaborators such as The Chieftains, The Ensemble Modern, etc. (Might also decide to add some of the artists who have been influenced by him; not sure yet) If you can provide the lion’s share of a sufficiently high quality system to go with the amp and DAC I could add the turntable I may need for the session, and I could acquire the transportation, carts,  moving paraphanalia, for getting it to the venue, and back to your place safely if needed. Please let me know.
                              ----Matt
                               
                               
                              From: Don Disbennett <ddisbennett@...>
                              To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 7:49 PM
                              Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                               
                              Matt:
                               
                              OK, I am starting to understand a bit better what you are proposing.  However, I would add two caveats:  first, although the focus is on the music, I think most/all of the RCAS members are used to listening to their music on a high quality system, so even though it may not be their system or even a “state of the art” system, it should be of sufficiently high quality to allow the quality of the music (good or bad) to come through; secondly, although we each have our favorites when it comes to a certain artist, I doubt that the other members would want to listen to three or four hours of my favorite artist alone.  I hope I didn’t step on your toes, Matt, as that certainly is not my intent to offend anyone, but I just feel that for a meeting with members representing a wide variety of tastes in music, we may need to vary the content enough to suit the majority of the members attending.  Or I could just bring my collection of Liberace songs, because I know EVERYONE loves his music!  LOL
                              Also, I would be more than happy to bring any equipment you may need:  I can bring my NAD power amp or NAD integrated amp or one of my DAC’s or even my laptop full of music, including quite a few high rez downloads which is what we used at Ulises house a few weekends ago.
                              Let me know if I can help in any way!
                               
                              Don
                               
                              From: Matt
                              Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 6:42 PM
                              Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                               
                               
                              Don,
                              I would love to have one of those types of critical listening sessions, however a session in which a system is tweaked the way you describe may not be possible due to time restrictions and venue limitations. Not to say someone couldn't pick up the ball and run with it. I guess the scenario you describe of playing music on a very high quality system to evaluate the music itself, subject to the limitations of that system comes closest to what we are trying to do  ----
                               
                              With some variations -- I would not describe the system I am proposing for my session as a very high quality system. However, my hope is it is a system that fits together well and will provide a good listening experience and do justice to the focus of the meeting which will be the music of Frank Zappa.
                              My apologies for possible misperceptions regarding the use of the word "critical". While the word has some rigid connotations I am actually using it loosely. Real critical listening sessions like the ones you are describing are out of my league. That does not mean I would not love to have some. I just am not the guy to conduct at that particular one. My hope for the critical listening session I would conduct (if it gets off the ground) is for a less rigid, or “critical” bent. My hope is the fun and relaxed atmosphere that has been an important part of what makes the RCAS meetings so great should carry over into a critical listening session, with a few obvious guidelines set down regarding the need for equipment that would be a good fit.
                              I am proposing to focus on the music for the meeting rather than the equipment, although the equipment should be an important component of the session. Absolutely
                              From: Don Disbennett <ddisbennett@...>
                              To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 12:37 PM
                              Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                               
                              Hi, Matt:
                              I am a bit confused about your use of the term “critical listening” to describe the proposed meeting of the RCAS next month.  Normally, when I use the term, I am referring to listening carefully to a piece of high quality music (wide dynamic range, low noise, little or no compression, etc.) with which I am very familiar over a system in which I have made some change which I am trying to evaluate.  It could be a change to an amplifier, speakers, DAC, turntable or even a tweak such as new cables, new position of the speakers, or interconnects.  I then listen to see if the change in the part of the system I am evaluating produces better sound, more detail, wider frequency range, lower noise floor or any other variable related to the reproduction of this piece of music for better or worse.  This is opposed to just listening to a variety of music over the same system, such as we usually do at the end of our RCAS meetings.  Everyone is invited to bring some of their music and play it on the system we have been using during the meeting.  On the other hand, it one wishes to evaluate the quality of a particular piece of music, it is played on a very high quality system to evaluate the music itself, subject to the limitations of that system.  I guess what I am saying is that from your description of the setup thus far, I am not sure which of the above scenarios (or something different entirely) we are trying to do at the proposed meeting.
                              Sorry if I am missing something!
                               
                              Don
                               
                              From: Matt
                              Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 8:20 AM
                              Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                               
                               
                              Steve, Alan, Pierre:
                              Following up on the idea of a critical listening session meeting. Your input, concerns, and questions, and requests for clarification are requested ----
                              If all pans out, what say you about doing a listening session late in March (30th)? I have offered to Bob to be the guinea pig and conduct the maident voyage session if we get that far.
                              There are logistical items that need to be worked out, however my hope is having it in late march will allow enough time for that.
                              Due to the equipment I want to use in my session the family room at Bjorns has its problems. Also getting the equipment to the venue will require planning on my part for the March session. (or on the part of the presenter at future sessions)
                              At the risk of putting the cart before the horse allow me to give you a list of what I hope to bring to the meeting in late March if we snag the venue. (Venue details forthcoming)
                              Please let me know if you have any concerns, questions or suggestions:
                              Five custom built component stands
                              power cords
                              Wire world RCA interconnects
                              Jolida integrated tube amp
                              Rega turntable
                              Rega CD player
                              Pair of Klipsch subwoofers (KSW200s)
                              Pair of tower Klipsch Speaker (KLF-20s)
                              Odds and ends like an 8-outlet audiophile grade power strip & power conditioner
                               My music program (for the critical listening part) would be -- Frank Zappa the music and the Man Session program and outline forthcoming. My hope is this would be a fun and informative session and a great reason to have a meeting in March.
                              Again your input, concerns, questions, and requests for clarification are needed and welcome.
                              From: stevenzaiontz <szaiontz@...>
                              To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:34 AM
                              Subject: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                               
                              Great idea, Matt. Looking forward to it. -Steven --- In mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com, Alan Hendler wrote: > > I would happy to do it. Both the music > and a system > Alan > > > > > > ________________________________
                              > From:pierrema333 > To:mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, February 12, 2013 9:39:16 PM > Subject:
                              [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity > >
                              > Hi. Excellent idea. I am very interested. > > Count on me. > >
                              Pierre Martinez. > > --- In mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com, "thudeets" wrote: > > > > Would any RCAS members be interested in doing critical listening sessions in a > >meeting? Each member who wanted to take a turn could put together a critical > >listening session comprised of their favorite performing artist, genre, > >composter, etc. It could be up to four hours long. This would give everyone the >
                              >opportunity to hear music that they may not otherwise have been exposed to;
                              and > >they could also learn about what music other members like, and they might find a > >new favorite artist. Plus those who are presenting might find it particularly > >enjoyable sharing music they find interesting with the group. > > > > > > Bringing in a good audio system would have its benefits. All the components > >would have to be a good fit in order to get the most out of this type of > >activity. > > > >
                              > > Would anyone else be willing to try out a critical listening session?
                              Would > >anyone be willing to bring in the components for a good system and participate? > > > > ---Matt > > >
                            • Don Disbennett
                              Hi, Matt: I could bring my integrated amp and one of my DAC’s; my Audioengine is currently back at the factory to investigate the noise that has been
                              Message 14 of 21 , Feb 17, 2013
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Hi, Matt:

                                I could bring my integrated amp and one of my DAC’s; my Audioengine is currently back at the factory to investigate the noise that has been reported at some of our meetings and confirmed by me here at home.  If it doesn’t make it back in time, I have several others I can bring.   I can bring either my M&K standmount speakers or my smaller Definitive Technology bipolar floorstanders. I Alan wouldn’t mind, he had offered to bring his Sony SACD player, which we all know to be of very high quality. I have a Sony SACD too, but it is not nearly of the caliber of Alan’s, although it won’t make much difference if we run it digitally into my DAC.  You didn’t mention my bringing my laptop, so I guess you don’t need it and therefore I guess you are bringing all the music for the program(I don’t have any Zappa on it).  I do have many other guitarists which might be compared or contrasted to Zappa, such as Jeff Beck or even Joe Walsh or Al Dimeola(and of course, Liberace – JK).
                                Let me know your thoughts on the above equipment or any suggestions for additions/changes.
                                 
                                Don
                                 
                                 
                                 
                                From: Matt
                                Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 3:48 PM
                                Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                 
                                 

                                Don,
                                My original thought when making the "critical" listening session proposal was that the equipment would be by one person because it would be equipment that has a track record of fitting together well; at least in theory. That person ideally would be the person providing the musical programing for the meeting, however it could be anyone. I know you're not a big analogue fan, so I could still bring a turntable. However, if the offer of the NAD integrated amp DAC still stand that might work. Could you provide a set of speakers that you know work well with said amp, and a CD player to go with the DAC? Let me know. That would be great if so. If the concern is lugging the stuff to whatever venue we end up snagging I would be willing to to the loins share of the planning for that part. What say you?
                                I get your concern. I haven't said anything yet because I have not finalized the program, but since you brought up a good point you should know that my plan is to throw in stuff that is not Zappa, that way we're not slogging through three or four hours of my favorite artist alone. That said, if anyone gets bored I would have no problem with members excusing themselves early or opting out completely just like one might do based on the agenda for any one of the RCAS meetings. I've got thick skin and hard toes. No problems there. Also, I think Liberace is a great artist! I would be there.
                                So, NOT 3 to 4 hours of Zappa; my hope however is the program would still be called "Frank Zappa, the Music and the Man" I will throw in lots of stuff from his musical influences such as Varese, Stravinsky, Johnny Guitar Watson, and some of his collaborators such as The Chieftains, The Ensemble Modern, etc. (Might also decide to add some of the artists who have been influenced by him; not sure yet) If you can provide the lion’s share of a sufficiently high quality system to go with the amp and DAC I could add the turntable I may need for the session, and I could acquire the transportation, carts,  moving paraphanalia, for getting it to the venue, and back to your place safely if needed. Please let me know.
                                ----Matt
                                 
                                 
                                From: Don Disbennett <ddisbennett@...>
                                To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 7:49 PM
                                Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                 
                                Matt:
                                 
                                OK, I am starting to understand a bit better what you are proposing.  However, I would add two caveats:  first, although the focus is on the music, I think most/all of the RCAS members are used to listening to their music on a high quality system, so even though it may not be their system or even a “state of the art” system, it should be of sufficiently high quality to allow the quality of the music (good or bad) to come through; secondly, although we each have our favorites when it comes to a certain artist, I doubt that the other members would want to listen to three or four hours of my favorite artist alone.  I hope I didn’t step on your toes, Matt, as that certainly is not my intent to offend anyone, but I just feel that for a meeting with members representing a wide variety of tastes in music, we may need to vary the content enough to suit the majority of the members attending.  Or I could just bring my collection of Liberace songs, because I know EVERYONE loves his music!  LOL
                                Also, I would be more than happy to bring any equipment you may need:  I can bring my NAD power amp or NAD integrated amp or one of my DAC’s or even my laptop full of music, including quite a few high rez downloads which is what we used at Ulises house a few weekends ago.
                                Let me know if I can help in any way!
                                 
                                Don
                                 
                                From: Matt
                                Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 6:42 PM
                                Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                 
                                 
                                Don,
                                I would love to have one of those types of critical listening sessions, however a session in which a system is tweaked the way you describe may not be possible due to time restrictions and venue limitations. Not to say someone couldn't pick up the ball and run with it. I guess the scenario you describe of playing music on a very high quality system to evaluate the music itself, subject to the limitations of that system comes closest to what we are trying to do  ----
                                 
                                With some variations -- I would not describe the system I am proposing for my session as a very high quality system. However, my hope is it is a system that fits together well and will provide a good listening experience and do justice to the focus of the meeting which will be the music of Frank Zappa.
                                My apologies for possible misperceptions regarding the use of the word "critical". While the word has some rigid connotations I am actually using it loosely. Real critical listening sessions like the ones you are describing are out of my league. That does not mean I would not love to have some. I just am not the guy to conduct at that particular one. My hope for the critical listening session I would conduct (if it gets off the ground) is for a less rigid, or “critical” bent. My hope is the fun and relaxed atmosphere that has been an important part of what makes the RCAS meetings so great should carry over into a critical listening session, with a few obvious guidelines set down regarding the need for equipment that would be a good fit.
                                I am proposing to focus on the music for the meeting rather than the equipment, although the equipment should be an important component of the session. Absolutely
                                From: Don Disbennett <ddisbennett@...>
                                To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 12:37 PM
                                Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                 
                                Hi, Matt:
                                I am a bit confused about your use of the term “critical listening” to describe the proposed meeting of the RCAS next month.  Normally, when I use the term, I am referring to listening carefully to a piece of high quality music (wide dynamic range, low noise, little or no compression, etc.) with which I am very familiar over a system in which I have made some change which I am trying to evaluate.  It could be a change to an amplifier, speakers, DAC, turntable or even a tweak such as new cables, new position of the speakers, or interconnects.  I then listen to see if the change in the part of the system I am evaluating produces better sound, more detail, wider frequency range, lower noise floor or any other variable related to the reproduction of this piece of music for better or worse.  This is opposed to just listening to a variety of music over the same system, such as we usually do at the end of our RCAS meetings.  Everyone is invited to bring some of their music and play it on the system we have been using during the meeting.  On the other hand, it one wishes to evaluate the quality of a particular piece of music, it is played on a very high quality system to evaluate the music itself, subject to the limitations of that system.  I guess what I am saying is that from your description of the setup thus far, I am not sure which of the above scenarios (or something different entirely) we are trying to do at the proposed meeting.
                                Sorry if I am missing something!
                                 
                                Don
                                 
                                From: Matt
                                Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 8:20 AM
                                Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                 
                                 
                                Steve, Alan, Pierre:
                                Following up on the idea of a critical listening session meeting. Your input, concerns, and questions, and requests for clarification are requested ----
                                If all pans out, what say you about doing a listening session late in March (30th)? I have offered to Bob to be the guinea pig and conduct the maident voyage session if we get that far.
                                There are logistical items that need to be worked out, however my hope is having it in late march will allow enough time for that.
                                Due to the equipment I want to use in my session the family room at Bjorns has its problems. Also getting the equipment to the venue will require planning on my part for the March session. (or on the part of the presenter at future sessions)
                                At the risk of putting the cart before the horse allow me to give you a list of what I hope to bring to the meeting in late March if we snag the venue. (Venue details forthcoming)
                                Please let me know if you have any concerns, questions or suggestions:
                                Five custom built component stands
                                power cords
                                Wire world RCA interconnects
                                Jolida integrated tube amp
                                Rega turntable
                                Rega CD player
                                Pair of Klipsch subwoofers (KSW200s)
                                Pair of tower Klipsch Speaker (KLF-20s)
                                Odds and ends like an 8-outlet audiophile grade power strip & power conditioner
                                 My music program (for the critical listening part) would be -- Frank Zappa the music and the Man Session program and outline forthcoming. My hope is this would be a fun and informative session and a great reason to have a meeting in March.
                                Again your input, concerns, questions, and requests for clarification are needed and welcome.
                                From: stevenzaiontz <szaiontz@...>
                                To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:34 AM
                                Subject: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                 
                                Great idea, Matt. Looking forward to it. -Steven --- In mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com, Alan Hendler wrote: > > I would happy to do it. Both the music > and a system > Alan > > > > > > ________________________________
                                > From:pierrema333 > To:
                                href="mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com" rel=nofollow target=_blank ymailto="mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com">mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com
                                > Sent: Tue, February 12, 2013 9:39:16 PM > Subject:
                                [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity > >
                                > Hi. Excellent idea. I am very interested. > > Count on me. > >
                                Pierre Martinez. > > --- In mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com, "thudeets" wrote: > > > > Would any RCAS members be interested in doing critical listening sessions in a > >meeting? Each member who wanted to take a turn could put together a critical > >listening session comprised of their favorite performing artist, genre, > >composter, etc. It could be up to four hours long. This would give everyone the >
                                >opportunity to hear music that they may not otherwise have been exposed to;
                                and > >they could also learn about what music other members like, and they might find a > >new favorite artist. Plus those who are presenting might find it particularly > >enjoyable sharing music they find interesting with the group. > > > > > > Bringing in a good audio system would have its benefits. All the components > >would have to be a good fit in order to get the most out of this type of > >activity. > > > >
                                > > Would anyone else be willing to try out a critical listening session?
                                Would > >anyone be willing to bring in the components for a good system and participate? > > > > ---Matt > > >
                              • Alan Hendler
                                Hey guys, I definetly could bring my Sony 5400 and if you want I could also bring with it my new AudioNote Dac 2.1b. The combination is unbelievable Alan
                                Message 15 of 21 , Feb 17, 2013
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  Hey guys,
                                  definetly could bring my Sony 5400 and if you want I could also bring with it
                                  my new AudioNote Dac 2.1b. The combination is unbelievable
                                  Alan



                                  From: Don Disbennett <ddisbennett@...>
                                  To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Sun, February 17, 2013 7:01:54 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity

                                   

                                  Hi, Matt:

                                  I could bring my integrated amp and one of my DAC’s; my Audioengine is currently back at the factory to investigate the noise that has been reported at some of our meetings and confirmed by me here at home.  If it doesn’t make it back in time, I have several others I can bring.   I can bring either my M&K standmount speakers or my smaller Definitive Technology bipolar floorstanders. I Alan wouldn’t mind, he had offered to bring his Sony SACD player, which we all know to be of very high quality. I have a Sony SACD too, but it is not nearly of the caliber of Alan’s, although it won’t make much difference if we run it digitally into my DAC.  You didn’t mention my bringing my laptop, so I guess you don’t need it and therefore I guess you are bringing all the music for the program(I don’t have any Zappa on it).  I do have many other guitarists which might be compared or contrasted to Zappa, such as Jeff Beck or even Joe Walsh or Al Dimeola(and of course, Liberace – JK).
                                  Let me know your thoughts on the above equipment or any suggestions for additions/changes.
                                   
                                  Don
                                   
                                   
                                   
                                  From: Matt
                                  Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 3:48 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                   
                                   

                                  Don,
                                  My original thought when making the "critical" listening session proposal was that the equipment would be by one person because it would be equipment that has a track record of fitting together well; at least in theory. That person ideally would be the person providing the musical programing for the meeting, however it could be anyone. I know you're not a big analogue fan, so I could still bring a turntable. However, if the offer of the NAD integrated amp DAC still stand that might work. Could you provide a set of speakers that you know work well with said amp, and a CD player to go with the DAC? Let me know. That would be great if so. If the concern is lugging the stuff to whatever venue we end up snagging I would be willing to to the loins share of the planning for that part. What say you?
                                  I get your concern. I haven't said anything yet because I have not finalized the program, but since you brought up a good point you should know that my plan is to throw in stuff that is not Zappa, that way we're not slogging through three or four hours of my favorite artist alone. That said, if anyone gets bored I would have no problem with members excusing themselves early or opting out completely just like one might do based on the agenda for any one of the RCAS meetings. I've got thick skin and hard toes. No problems there. Also, I think Liberace is a great artist! I would be there.
                                  So, NOT 3 to 4 hours of Zappa; my hope however is the program would still be called "Frank Zappa, the Music and the Man" I will throw in lots of stuff from his musical influences such as Varese, Stravinsky, Johnny Guitar Watson, and some of his collaborators such as The Chieftains, The Ensemble Modern, etc. (Might also decide to add some of the artists who have been influenced by him; not sure yet) If you can provide the lion’s share of a sufficiently high quality system to go with the amp and DAC I could add the turntable I may need for the session, and I could acquire the transportation, carts,  moving paraphanalia, for getting it to the venue, and back to your place safely if needed. Please let me know.
                                  ----Matt
                                   
                                   
                                  From: Don Disbennett <ddisbennett@...>
                                  To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 7:49 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                   
                                  Matt:
                                   
                                  OK, I am starting to understand a bit better what you are proposing.  However, I would add two caveats:  first, although the focus is on the music, I think most/all of the RCAS members are used to listening to their music on a high quality system, so even though it may not be their system or even a “state of the art” system, it should be of sufficiently high quality to allow the quality of the music (good or bad) to come through; secondly, although we each have our favorites when it comes to a certain artist, I doubt that the other members would want to listen to three or four hours of my favorite artist alone.  I hope I didn’t step on your toes, Matt, as that certainly is not my intent to offend anyone, but I just feel that for a meeting with members representing a wide variety of tastes in music, we may need to vary the content enough to suit the majority of the members attending.  Or I could just bring my collection of Liberace songs, because I know EVERYONE loves his music!  LOL
                                  Also, I would be more than happy to bring any equipment you may need:  I can bring my NAD power amp or NAD integrated amp or one of my DAC’s or even my laptop full of music, including quite a few high rez downloads which is what we used at Ulises house a few weekends ago.
                                  Let me know if I can help in any way!
                                   
                                  Don
                                   
                                  From: Matt
                                  Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 6:42 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                   
                                   
                                  Don,
                                  I would love to have one of those types of critical listening sessions, however a session in which a system is tweaked the way you describe may not be possible due to time restrictions and venue limitations. Not to say someone couldn't pick up the ball and run with it. I guess the scenario you describe of playing music on a very high quality system to evaluate the music itself, subject to the limitations of that system comes closest to what we are trying to do  ----
                                   
                                  With some variations -- I would not describe the system I am proposing for my session as a very high quality system. However, my hope is it is a system that fits together well and will provide a good listening experience and do justice to the focus of the meeting which will be the music of Frank Zappa.
                                  My apologies for possible misperceptions regarding the use of the word "critical". While the word has some rigid connotations I am actually using it loosely. Real critical listening sessions like the ones you are describing are out of my league. That does not mean I would not love to have some. I just am not the guy to conduct at that particular one. My hope for the critical listening session I would conduct (if it gets off the ground) is for a less rigid, or “critical” bent. My hope is the fun and relaxed atmosphere that has been an important part of what makes the RCAS meetings so great should carry over into a critical listening session, with a few obvious guidelines set down regarding the need for equipment that would be a good fit.
                                  I am proposing to focus on the music for the meeting rather than the equipment, although the equipment should be an important component of the session. Absolutely
                                  From: Don Disbennett <ddisbennett@...>
                                  To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 12:37 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                   
                                  Hi, Matt:
                                  I am a bit confused about your use of the term “critical listening” to describe the proposed meeting of the RCAS next month.  Normally, when I use the term, I am referring to listening carefully to a piece of high quality music (wide dynamic range, low noise, little or no compression, etc.) with which I am very familiar over a system in which I have made some change which I am trying to evaluate.  It could be a change to an amplifier, speakers, DAC, turntable or even a tweak such as new cables, new position of the speakers, or interconnects.  I then listen to see if the change in the part of the system I am evaluating produces better sound, more detail, wider frequency range, lower noise floor or any other variable related to the reproduction of this piece of music for better or worse.  This is opposed to just listening to a variety of music over the same system, such as we usually do at the end of our RCAS meetings.  Everyone is invited to bring some of their music and play it on the system we have been using during the meeting.  On the other hand, it one wishes to evaluate the quality of a particular piece of music, it is played on a very high quality system to evaluate the music itself, subject to the limitations of that system.  I guess what I am saying is that from your description of the setup thus far, I am not sure which of the above scenarios (or something different entirely) we are trying to do at the proposed meeting.
                                  Sorry if I am missing something!
                                   
                                  Don
                                   
                                  From: Matt
                                  Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 8:20 AM
                                  Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                   
                                   
                                  Steve, Alan, Pierre:
                                  Following up on the idea of a critical listening session meeting. Your input, concerns, and questions, and requests for clarification are requested ----
                                  If all pans out, what say you about doing a listening session late in March (30th)? I have offered to Bob to be the guinea pig and conduct the maident voyage session if we get that far.
                                  There are logistical items that need to be worked out, however my hope is having it in late march will allow enough time for that.
                                  Due to the equipment I want to use in my session the family room at Bjorns has its problems. Also getting the equipment to the venue will require planning on my part for the March session. (or on the part of the presenter at future sessions)
                                  At the risk of putting the cart before the horse allow me to give you a list of what I hope to bring to the meeting in late March if we snag the venue. (Venue details forthcoming)
                                  Please let me know if you have any concerns, questions or suggestions:
                                  Five custom built component stands
                                  power cords
                                  Wire world RCA interconnects
                                  Jolida integrated tube amp
                                  Rega turntable
                                  Rega CD player
                                  Pair of Klipsch subwoofers (KSW200s)
                                  Pair of tower Klipsch Speaker (KLF-20s)
                                  Odds and ends like an 8-outlet audiophile grade power strip & power conditioner
                                   My music program (for the critical listening part) would be -- Frank Zappa the music and the Man Session program and outline forthcoming. My hope is this would be a fun and informative session and a great reason to have a meeting in March.
                                  Again your input, concerns, questions, and requests for clarification are needed and welcome.
                                  From: stevenzaiontz <szaiontz@...>
                                  To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:34 AM
                                  Subject: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                   
                                  Great idea, Matt. Looking forward to it. -Steven --- In mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com, Alan Hendler wrote: > > I would happy to do it. Both the music > and a system > Alan > > > > > > ________________________________
                                  > From:pierrema333 > To:mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, February 12, 2013 9:39:16 PM > Subject:
                                  [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity > >
                                  > Hi. Excellent idea. I am very interested. > > Count on me. > >
                                  Pierre Martinez. > > --- In mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com, "thudeets" wrote: > > > > Would any RCAS members be interested in doing critical listening sessions in a > >meeting? Each member who wanted to take a turn could put together a critical > >listening session comprised of their favorite performing artist, genre, > >composter, etc. It could be up to four hours long. This would give everyone the >
                                  >opportunity to hear music that they may not otherwise have been exposed to;
                                  and > >they could also learn about what music other members like, and they might find a > >new favorite artist. Plus those who are presenting might find it particularly > >enjoyable sharing music they find interesting with the group. > > > > > > Bringing in a good audio system would have its benefits. All the components > >would have to be a good fit in order to get the most out of this type of > >activity. > > > >
                                  > > Would anyone else be willing to try out a critical listening session?
                                  Would > >anyone be willing to bring in the components for a good system and participate? > > > > ---Matt > > >
                                • Matt
                                  Kris, It would be great if the RCAS critical listening sessions enterprise got far enough down the road to evolve like the ones you had/have. My perception
                                  Message 16 of 21 , Feb 17, 2013
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Kris,
                                    It would be great if the RCAS "critical" listening sessions enterprise got far enough down the road to evolve like the ones you had/have. My perception is that a session with the kind of spontaneity and randomness that would occur by using a format like the one you had during the 90's would be wonderful in the hands of the right member.
                                    Thank you for the great input. Further suggestions, comments and votes of confidence on the concept are definitely welcome.
                                    From: Kris Rexroad <hdk_hdk_hdk@...>
                                    To: "rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com" <rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 3:04 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                     
                                    I've been following this topic with interest.  I, too, was wondering a bit about the critical aspect as originally shared with the group.  Thanks to Matt for further expounding on his vision on how these sorts of meetings would operate.  You can certainly count me in on future events like this.  I'm all for being exposed to new music by other members of RCA'S.  I just wanted to pass on my vote of conficence on this concept.
                                     
                                    I'll share my own personal experience along these lines here, so if you want to stop reading now, my feelings won't be hurt.  Back in the early 90s I did a similar thing with my friends.  You never know what direction things will go, and what we ended up with was quite rewarding.  Seems my whole life I've spent more on gear than music.  There's reasons for this, but we needn't go into them here.  Luckily, I had lots of friends who spent more on music than gear.  So, I started up monthly events where people would come over to my house to share new and intriging music with others.  Everyone would bring a few dozen new CDs that they felt were interesting.  At random, people would play a cut.  The musical selections were ecclectic and all over the map.  I recorded these evenst on VHS Hi-Fi, then transfered these to cassette.  I made out because my music collection was growing, but was limited by the quality of cassettes.
                                     
                                    With time things change and evolve.  We started giving each person a 30 minute shift, since that then allowed one person per side of a C-60 cassette.  We also discovered that we liked the new music each of us was being exposed to by the others, so we ended up assigning the task of 'scribe' to someone to keep a written record of group, album, and song names.  As newer technologies came along, our operation changed as well.  We started recording onto DATs with each person making up one CD (74 or 80 minute sets).  I even would burn a CD, live during the set, of each set to give to the contributor when they were done.  These CD length sets were made into CDs and I made artwork for the covers along with all the info from the scribe.  We did this for many years, and it was most rewarding.  To this day, the CDs created from these events are still among my top favorites in my CD collection.
                                     
                                    That, basically, is the story of how House de Kris came into existance.  Now that I moved to Texas, I have Ranch de Kris.  I'm trying to get the same sort of thing going here with my Full Moon MusicShare events.  So far, there is rarely a genre theme, and people offer up songs at random.  We'll see how it evolves with time.
                                     
                                    In case you are interested, you are invited to vist the House de Kris website at:  http://www.housedekris.com/
                                    I admit that my webisite is confusiong, by going to the "old" website gets you lists of CDs and their content, an example of one of the CDs from a contributor is:  http://www.housedekris.com/hdkmv097.html#hdktop
                                    If you have a huge Internet data allowance and a speedy connection, you can download videos of these events at:  http://www.housedekris.com/catalog.html (most downloads are 1.2G in size).
                                     
                                     
                                    Well, I think I've blown my own horn enough for now.
                                     
                                     
                                    Kris
                                     
                                    From: Matt <thudeets@...>
                                    To: "rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com" <rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 6:42 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                     
                                    Don,
                                    I would love to have one of those types of critical listening sessions, however a session in which a system is tweaked the way you describe may not be possible due to time restrictions and venue limitations. Not to say someone couldn't pick up the ball and run with it. I guess the scenario you describe of playing music on a very high quality system to evaluate the music itself, subject to the limitations of that system comes closest to what we are trying to do  ----
                                     
                                    With some variations -- I would not describe the system I am proposing for my session as a very high quality system. However, my hope is it is a system that fits together well and will provide a good listening experience and do justice to the focus of the meeting which will be the music of Frank Zappa.
                                    My apologies for possible misperceptions regarding the use of the word "critical". While the word has some rigid connotations I am actually using it loosely. Real critical listening sessions like the ones you are describing are out of my league. That does not mean I would not love to have some. I just am not the guy to conduct at that particular one. My hope for the critical listening session I would conduct (if it gets off the ground) is for a less rigid, or “critical” bent. My hope is the fun and relaxed atmosphere that has been an important part of what makes the RCAS meetings so great should carry over into a critical listening session, with a few obvious guidelines set down regarding the need for equipment that would be a good fit.
                                    I am proposing to focus on the music for the meeting rather than the equipment, although the equipment should be an important component of the session. Absolutely
                                     
                                     
                                  • Matt
                                    Don, all sounds good. If it is possible to bring the speakers that you know are the best fit with the other pieces you are bringing that would be great. Just
                                    Message 17 of 21 , Feb 17, 2013
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Don, all sounds good. If it is possible to bring the speakers that you know are the best fit with the other pieces you are bringing that would be great.
                                      Just an inadvertent oversight. Absolutely bring the Beck, Walsh and Dimeola. Comparisons would be an interesting addition. (Liberace? You know he needs and entire session dedicated exclusively to his genius. Please let me know if you need help putting said session together. :)
                                      I hope to follow up as quickly as possible regarding additional details. 
                                      From: Don Disbennett <ddisbennett@...>
                                      To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 6:59 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                       
                                      Hi, Matt:
                                      I could bring my integrated amp and one of my DAC’s; my Audioengine is currently back at the factory to investigate the noise that has been reported at some of our meetings and confirmed by me here at home.  If it doesn’t make it back in time, I have several others I can bring.   I can bring either my M&K standmount speakers or my smaller Definitive Technology bipolar floorstanders. I Alan wouldn’t mind, he had offered to bring his Sony SACD player, which we all know to be of very high quality. I have a Sony SACD too, but it is not nearly of the caliber of Alan’s, although it won’t make much difference if we run it digitally into my DAC.  You didn’t mention my bringing my laptop, so I guess you don’t need it and therefore I guess you are bringing all the music for the program(I don’t have any Zappa on it).  I do have many other guitarists which might be compared or contrasted to Zappa, such as Jeff Beck or even Joe Walsh or Al Dimeola(and of course, Liberace – JK).
                                      Let me know your thoughts on the above equipment or any suggestions for additions/changes.
                                       
                                      Don
                                       
                                       
                                       
                                      From: Matt
                                      Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 3:48 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                       
                                       
                                      Don,
                                      My original thought when making the "critical" listening session proposal was that the equipment would be by one person because it would be equipment that has a track record of fitting together well; at least in theory. That person ideally would be the person providing the musical programing for the meeting, however it could be anyone. I know you're not a big analogue fan, so I could still bring a turntable. However, if the offer of the NAD integrated amp DAC still stand that might work. Could you provide a set of speakers that you know work well with said amp, and a CD player to go with the DAC? Let me know. That would be great if so. If the concern is lugging the stuff to whatever venue we end up snagging I would be willing to to the loins share of the planning for that part. What say you?
                                      I get your concern. I haven't said anything yet because I have not finalized the program, but since you brought up a good point you should know that my plan is to throw in stuff that is not Zappa, that way we're not slogging through three or four hours of my favorite artist alone. That said, if anyone gets bored I would have no problem with members excusing themselves early or opting out completely just like one might do based on the agenda for any one of the RCAS meetings. I've got thick skin and hard toes. No problems there. Also, I think Liberace is a great artist! I would be there.
                                      So, NOT 3 to 4 hours of Zappa; my hope however is the program would still be called "Frank Zappa, the Music and the Man" I will throw in lots of stuff from his musical influences such as Varese, Stravinsky, Johnny Guitar Watson, and some of his collaborators such as The Chieftains, The Ensemble Modern, etc. (Might also decide to add some of the artists who have been influenced by him; not sure yet) If you can provide the lion’s share of a sufficiently high quality system to go with the amp and DAC I could add the turntable I may need for the session, and I could acquire the transportation, carts,  moving paraphanalia, for getting it to the venue, and back to your place safely if needed. Please let me know.
                                      ----Matt
                                       
                                       
                                      From: Don Disbennett <ddisbennett@...>
                                      To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 7:49 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                       
                                      Matt:
                                       
                                      OK, I am starting to understand a bit better what you are proposing.  However, I would add two caveats:  first, although the focus is on the music, I think most/all of the RCAS members are used to listening to their music on a high quality system, so even though it may not be their system or even a “state of the art” system, it should be of sufficiently high quality to allow the quality of the music (good or bad) to come through; secondly, although we each have our favorites when it comes to a certain artist, I doubt that the other members would want to listen to three or four hours of my favorite artist alone.  I hope I didn’t step on your toes, Matt, as that certainly is not my intent to offend anyone, but I just feel that for a meeting with members representing a wide variety of tastes in music, we may need to vary the content enough to suit the majority of the members attending.  Or I could just bring my collection of Liberace songs, because I know EVERYONE loves his music!  LOL
                                      Also, I would be more than happy to bring any equipment you may need:  I can bring my NAD power amp or NAD integrated amp or one of my DAC’s or even my laptop full of music, including quite a few high rez downloads which is what we used at Ulises house a few weekends ago.
                                      Let me know if I can help in any way!
                                       
                                      Don
                                       
                                      From: Matt
                                      Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 6:42 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                       
                                       
                                      Don,
                                      I would love to have one of those types of critical listening sessions, however a session in which a system is tweaked the way you describe may not be possible due to time restrictions and venue limitations. Not to say someone couldn't pick up the ball and run with it. I guess the scenario you describe of playing music on a very high quality system to evaluate the music itself, subject to the limitations of that system comes closest to what we are trying to do  ----
                                       
                                      With some variations -- I would not describe the system I am proposing for my session as a very high quality system. However, my hope is it is a system that fits together well and will provide a good listening experience and do justice to the focus of the meeting which will be the music of Frank Zappa.
                                      My apologies for possible misperceptions regarding the use of the word "critical". While the word has some rigid connotations I am actually using it loosely. Real critical listening sessions like the ones you are describing are out of my league. That does not mean I would not love to have some. I just am not the guy to conduct at that particular one. My hope for the critical listening session I would conduct (if it gets off the ground) is for a less rigid, or “critical” bent. My hope is the fun and relaxed atmosphere that has been an important part of what makes the RCAS meetings so great should carry over into a critical listening session, with a few obvious guidelines set down regarding the need for equipment that would be a good fit.
                                      I am proposing to focus on the music for the meeting rather than the equipment, although the equipment should be an important component of the session. Absolutely
                                      From: Don Disbennett <ddisbennett@...>
                                      To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 12:37 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                       
                                      Hi, Matt:
                                      I am a bit confused about your use of the term “critical listening” to describe the proposed meeting of the RCAS next month.  Normally, when I use the term, I am referring to listening carefully to a piece of high quality music (wide dynamic range, low noise, little or no compression, etc.) with which I am very familiar over a system in which I have made some change which I am trying to evaluate.  It could be a change to an amplifier, speakers, DAC, turntable or even a tweak such as new cables, new position of the speakers, or interconnects.  I then listen to see if the change in the part of the system I am evaluating produces better sound, more detail, wider frequency range, lower noise floor or any other variable related to the reproduction of this piece of music for better or worse.  This is opposed to just listening to a variety of music over the same system, such as we usually do at the end of our RCAS meetings.  Everyone is invited to bring some of their music and play it on the system we have been using during the meeting.  On the other hand, it one wishes to evaluate the quality of a particular piece of music, it is played on a very high quality system to evaluate the music itself, subject to the limitations of that system.  I guess what I am saying is that from your description of the setup thus far, I am not sure which of the above scenarios (or something different entirely) we are trying to do at the proposed meeting.
                                      Sorry if I am missing something!
                                       
                                      Don
                                       
                                      From: Matt
                                      Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 8:20 AM
                                      Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                       
                                       
                                      Steve, Alan, Pierre:
                                      Following up on the idea of a critical listening session meeting. Your input, concerns, and questions, and requests for clarification are requested ----
                                      If all pans out, what say you about doing a listening session late in March (30th)? I have offered to Bob to be the guinea pig and conduct the maident voyage session if we get that far.
                                      There are logistical items that need to be worked out, however my hope is having it in late march will allow enough time for that.
                                      Due to the equipment I want to use in my session the family room at Bjorns has its problems. Also getting the equipment to the venue will require planning on my part for the March session. (or on the part of the presenter at future sessions)
                                      At the risk of putting the cart before the horse allow me to give you a list of what I hope to bring to the meeting in late March if we snag the venue. (Venue details forthcoming)
                                      Please let me know if you have any concerns, questions or suggestions:
                                      Five custom built component stands
                                      power cords
                                      Wire world RCA interconnects
                                      Jolida integrated tube amp
                                      Rega turntable
                                      Rega CD player
                                      Pair of Klipsch subwoofers (KSW200s)
                                      Pair of tower Klipsch Speaker (KLF-20s)
                                      Odds and ends like an 8-outlet audiophile grade power strip & power conditioner
                                       My music program (for the critical listening part) would be -- Frank Zappa the music and the Man Session program and outline forthcoming. My hope is this would be a fun and informative session and a great reason to have a meeting in March.
                                      Again your input, concerns, questions, and requests for clarification are needed and welcome.
                                      From: stevenzaiontz <szaiontz@...>
                                      To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:34 AM
                                      Subject: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                       
                                      Great idea, Matt. Looking forward to it. -Steven --- In mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com, Alan Hendler wrote: > > I would happy to do it. Both the music > and a system > Alan > > > > > > ________________________________
                                      > From:pierrema333 > To:mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, February 12, 2013 9:39:16 PM > Subject:
                                      [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity > >
                                      > Hi. Excellent idea. I am very interested. > > Count on me. > >
                                      Pierre Martinez. > > --- In mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com, "thudeets" wrote: > > > > Would any RCAS members be interested in doing critical listening sessions in a > >meeting? Each member who wanted to take a turn could put together a critical > >listening session comprised of their favorite performing artist, genre, > >composter, etc. It could be up to four hours long. This would give everyone the >
                                      >opportunity to hear music that they may not otherwise have been exposed to;
                                      and > >they could also learn about what music other members like, and they might find a > >new favorite artist. Plus those who are presenting might find it particularly > >enjoyable sharing music they find interesting with the group. > > > > > > Bringing in a good audio system would have its benefits. All the components > >would have to be a good fit in order to get the most out of this type of > >activity. > > > >
                                      > > Would anyone else be willing to try out a critical listening session?
                                      Would > >anyone be willing to bring in the components for a good system and participate? > > > > ---Matt > > >
                                    • Matt
                                      Alan, the Sony sounds great.   I think the AudioNote DAC is a great DAC, however I defer to Don. He will know better than I how it fits with the rest of the
                                      Message 18 of 21 , Feb 17, 2013
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Alan, the Sony sounds great.
                                         
                                        I think the AudioNote DAC is a great DAC, however I defer to Don. He will know better than I how it fits with the rest of the equipment which he is bringing.
                                        ---Matt

                                        From: Alan Hendler <alanhendler@...>
                                        To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 8:28 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                         
                                        Hey guys,
                                        definetly could bring my Sony 5400 and if you want I could also bring with it
                                        my new AudioNote Dac 2.1b. The combination is unbelievable
                                        Alan


                                        From: Don Disbennett <ddisbennett@...>
                                        To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Sun, February 17, 2013 7:01:54 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                         
                                        Hi, Matt:
                                        I could bring my integrated amp and one of my DAC’s; my Audioengine is currently back at the factory to investigate the noise that has been reported at some of our meetings and confirmed by me here at home.  If it doesn’t make it back in time, I have several others I can bring.   I can bring either my M&K standmount speakers or my smaller Definitive Technology bipolar floorstanders. I Alan wouldn’t mind, he had offered to bring his Sony SACD player, which we all know to be of very high quality. I have a Sony SACD too, but it is not nearly of the caliber of Alan’s, although it won’t make much difference if we run it digitally into my DAC.  You didn’t mention my bringing my laptop, so I guess you don’t need it and therefore I guess you are bringing all the music for the program(I don’t have any Zappa on it).  I do have many other guitarists which might be compared or contrasted to Zappa, such as Jeff Beck or even Joe Walsh or Al Dimeola(and of course, Liberace – JK).
                                        Let me know your thoughts on the above equipment or any suggestions for additions/changes.
                                         
                                        Don
                                         
                                         
                                         
                                        From: Matt
                                        Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 3:48 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                         
                                         
                                        Don,
                                        My original thought when making the "critical" listening session proposal was that the equipment would be by one person because it would be equipment that has a track record of fitting together well; at least in theory. That person ideally would be the person providing the musical programing for the meeting, however it could be anyone. I know you're not a big analogue fan, so I could still bring a turntable. However, if the offer of the NAD integrated amp DAC still stand that might work. Could you provide a set of speakers that you know work well with said amp, and a CD player to go with the DAC? Let me know. That would be great if so. If the concern is lugging the stuff to whatever venue we end up snagging I would be willing to to the loins share of the planning for that part. What say you?
                                        I get your concern. I haven't said anything yet because I have not finalized the program, but since you brought up a good point you should know that my plan is to throw in stuff that is not Zappa, that way we're not slogging through three or four hours of my favorite artist alone. That said, if anyone gets bored I would have no problem with members excusing themselves early or opting out completely just like one might do based on the agenda for any one of the RCAS meetings. I've got thick skin and hard toes. No problems there. Also, I think Liberace is a great artist! I would be there.
                                        So, NOT 3 to 4 hours of Zappa; my hope however is the program would still be called "Frank Zappa, the Music and the Man" I will throw in lots of stuff from his musical influences such as Varese, Stravinsky, Johnny Guitar Watson, and some of his collaborators such as The Chieftains, The Ensemble Modern, etc. (Might also decide to add some of the artists who have been influenced by him; not sure yet) If you can provide the lion’s share of a sufficiently high quality system to go with the amp and DAC I could add the turntable I may need for the session, and I could acquire the transportation, carts,  moving paraphanalia, for getting it to the venue, and back to your place safely if needed. Please let me know.
                                        ----Matt
                                         
                                         
                                        From: Don Disbennett <ddisbennett@...>
                                        To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 7:49 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                         
                                        Matt:
                                         
                                        OK, I am starting to understand a bit better what you are proposing.  However, I would add two caveats:  first, although the focus is on the music, I think most/all of the RCAS members are used to listening to their music on a high quality system, so even though it may not be their system or even a “state of the art” system, it should be of sufficiently high quality to allow the quality of the music (good or bad) to come through; secondly, although we each have our favorites when it comes to a certain artist, I doubt that the other members would want to listen to three or four hours of my favorite artist alone.  I hope I didn’t step on your toes, Matt, as that certainly is not my intent to offend anyone, but I just feel that for a meeting with members representing a wide variety of tastes in music, we may need to vary the content enough to suit the majority of the members attending.  Or I could just bring my collection of Liberace songs, because I know EVERYONE loves his music!  LOL
                                        Also, I would be more than happy to bring any equipment you may need:  I can bring my NAD power amp or NAD integrated amp or one of my DAC’s or even my laptop full of music, including quite a few high rez downloads which is what we used at Ulises house a few weekends ago.
                                        Let me know if I can help in any way!
                                         
                                        Don
                                         
                                        From: Matt
                                        Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 6:42 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                         
                                         
                                        Don,
                                        I would love to have one of those types of critical listening sessions, however a session in which a system is tweaked the way you describe may not be possible due to time restrictions and venue limitations. Not to say someone couldn't pick up the ball and run with it. I guess the scenario you describe of playing music on a very high quality system to evaluate the music itself, subject to the limitations of that system comes closest to what we are trying to do  ----
                                         
                                        With some variations -- I would not describe the system I am proposing for my session as a very high quality system. However, my hope is it is a system that fits together well and will provide a good listening experience and do justice to the focus of the meeting which will be the music of Frank Zappa.
                                        My apologies for possible misperceptions regarding the use of the word "critical". While the word has some rigid connotations I am actually using it loosely. Real critical listening sessions like the ones you are describing are out of my league. That does not mean I would not love to have some. I just am not the guy to conduct at that particular one. My hope for the critical listening session I would conduct (if it gets off the ground) is for a less rigid, or “critical” bent. My hope is the fun and relaxed atmosphere that has been an important part of what makes the RCAS meetings so great should carry over into a critical listening session, with a few obvious guidelines set down regarding the need for equipment that would be a good fit.
                                        I am proposing to focus on the music for the meeting rather than the equipment, although the equipment should be an important component of the session. Absolutely
                                        From: Don Disbennett <ddisbennett@...>
                                        To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 12:37 PM
                                        Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                         
                                        Hi, Matt:
                                        I am a bit confused about your use of the term “critical listening” to describe the proposed meeting of the RCAS next month.  Normally, when I use the term, I am referring to listening carefully to a piece of high quality music (wide dynamic range, low noise, little or no compression, etc.) with which I am very familiar over a system in which I have made some change which I am trying to evaluate.  It could be a change to an amplifier, speakers, DAC, turntable or even a tweak such as new cables, new position of the speakers, or interconnects.  I then listen to see if the change in the part of the system I am evaluating produces better sound, more detail, wider frequency range, lower noise floor or any other variable related to the reproduction of this piece of music for better or worse.  This is opposed to just listening to a variety of music over the same system, such as we usually do at the end of our RCAS meetings.  Everyone is invited to bring some of their music and play it on the system we have been using during the meeting.  On the other hand, it one wishes to evaluate the quality of a particular piece of music, it is played on a very high quality system to evaluate the music itself, subject to the limitations of that system.  I guess what I am saying is that from your description of the setup thus far, I am not sure which of the above scenarios (or something different entirely) we are trying to do at the proposed meeting.
                                        Sorry if I am missing something!
                                         
                                        Don
                                         
                                        From: Matt
                                        Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 8:20 AM
                                        Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                         
                                         
                                        Steve, Alan, Pierre:
                                        Following up on the idea of a critical listening session meeting. Your input, concerns, and questions, and requests for clarification are requested ----
                                        If all pans out, what say you about doing a listening session late in March (30th)? I have offered to Bob to be the guinea pig and conduct the maident voyage session if we get that far.
                                        There are logistical items that need to be worked out, however my hope is having it in late march will allow enough time for that.
                                        Due to the equipment I want to use in my session the family room at Bjorns has its problems. Also getting the equipment to the venue will require planning on my part for the March session. (or on the part of the presenter at future sessions)
                                        At the risk of putting the cart before the horse allow me to give you a list of what I hope to bring to the meeting in late March if we snag the venue. (Venue details forthcoming)
                                        Please let me know if you have any concerns, questions or suggestions:
                                        Five custom built component stands
                                        power cords
                                        Wire world RCA interconnects
                                        Jolida integrated tube amp
                                        Rega turntable
                                        Rega CD player
                                        Pair of Klipsch subwoofers (KSW200s)
                                        Pair of tower Klipsch Speaker (KLF-20s)
                                        Odds and ends like an 8-outlet audiophile grade power strip & power conditioner
                                         My music program (for the critical listening part) would be -- Frank Zappa the music and the Man Session program and outline forthcoming. My hope is this would be a fun and informative session and a great reason to have a meeting in March.
                                        Again your input, concerns, questions, and requests for clarification are needed and welcome.
                                        From: stevenzaiontz <szaiontz@...>
                                        To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:34 AM
                                        Subject: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                         
                                        Great idea, Matt. Looking forward to it. -Steven --- In mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com, Alan Hendler wrote: > > I would happy to do it. Both the music > and a system > Alan > > > > > > ________________________________
                                        > From:pierrema333 > To:mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, February 12, 2013 9:39:16 PM > Subject:
                                        [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity > >
                                        > Hi. Excellent idea. I am very interested. > > Count on me. > >
                                        Pierre Martinez. > > --- In mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com, "thudeets" wrote: > > > > Would any RCAS members be interested in doing critical listening sessions in a > >meeting? Each member who wanted to take a turn could put together a critical > >listening session comprised of their favorite performing artist, genre, > >composter, etc. It could be up to four hours long. This would give everyone the >
                                        >opportunity to hear music that they may not otherwise have been exposed to;
                                        and > >they could also learn about what music other members like, and they might find a > >new favorite artist. Plus those who are presenting might find it particularly > >enjoyable sharing music they find interesting with the group. > > > > > > Bringing in a good audio system would have its benefits. All the components > >would have to be a good fit in order to get the most out of this type of > >activity. > > > >
                                        > > Would anyone else be willing to try out a critical listening session?
                                        Would > >anyone be willing to bring in the components for a good system and participate? > > > > ---Matt > > >
                                      • Don Disbennett
                                        Matt/Alan: I am not familiar with the AudioNote DAC, but I am sure that if Alan thinks it is a good one, it is and I would love to hear it. However, I will
                                        Message 19 of 21 , Feb 17, 2013
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          Matt/Alan:

                                          I am not familiar with the AudioNote DAC, but I am sure that if Alan thinks it is a good one, it is and I would love to hear it.  However, I will still need to bring another DAC since I believe Alan said the AudioNote is 16/44.1 only and many of my files (Walsh, Beck, etc.) are higher resolution so they wouldn’t play on his DAC.
                                           
                                          Don
                                           
                                          From: Matt
                                          Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 10:49 PM
                                          Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                           
                                           

                                          Alan, the Sony sounds great.
                                           
                                          I think the AudioNote DAC is a great DAC, however I defer to Don. He will know better than I how it fits with the rest of the equipment which he is bringing.
                                          ---Matt
                                           
                                          From: Alan Hendler <alanhendler@...>
                                          To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 8:28 PM
                                          Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                           
                                          Hey guys,
                                          I definetly could bring my Sony 5400 and if you want I could also bring with it
                                          my new AudioNote Dac 2.1b. The combination is unbelievable
                                          Alan
                                           
                                           
                                          From: Don Disbennett <ddisbennett@...>
                                          To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Sun, February 17, 2013 7:01:54 PM
                                          Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                           
                                          Hi, Matt:
                                          I could bring my integrated amp and one of my DAC’s; my Audioengine is currently back at the factory to investigate the noise that has been reported at some of our meetings and confirmed by me here at home.  If it doesn’t make it back in time, I have several others I can bring.   I can bring either my M&K standmount speakers or my smaller Definitive Technology bipolar floorstanders. I Alan wouldn’t mind, he had offered to bring his Sony SACD player, which we all know to be of very high quality. I have a Sony SACD too, but it is not nearly of the caliber of Alan’s, although it won’t make much difference if we run it digitally into my DAC.  You didn’t mention my bringing my laptop, so I guess you don’t need it and therefore I guess you are bringing all the music for the program(I don’t have any Zappa on it).  I do have many other guitarists which might be compared or contrasted to Zappa, such as Jeff Beck or even Joe Walsh or Al Dimeola(and of course, Liberace – JK).
                                          Let me know your thoughts on the above equipment or any suggestions for additions/changes.
                                           
                                          Don
                                           
                                           
                                           
                                          From: Matt
                                          Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 3:48 PM
                                          Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                           
                                           
                                          Don,
                                          My original thought when making the "critical" listening session proposal was that the equipment would be by one person because it would be equipment that has a track record of fitting together well; at least in theory. That person ideally would be the person providing the musical programing for the meeting, however it could be anyone. I know you're not a big analogue fan, so I could still bring a turntable. However, if the offer of the NAD integrated amp DAC still stand that might work. Could you provide a set of speakers that you know work well with said amp, and a CD player to go with the DAC? Let me know. That would be great if so. If the concern is lugging the stuff to whatever venue we end up snagging I would be willing to to the loins share of the planning for that part. What say you?
                                          I get your concern. I haven't said anything yet because I have not finalized the program, but since you brought up a good point you should know that my plan is to throw in stuff that is not Zappa, that way we're not slogging through three or four hours of my favorite artist alone. That said, if anyone gets bored I would have no problem with members excusing themselves early or opting out completely just like one might do based on the agenda for any one of the RCAS meetings. I've got thick skin and hard toes. No problems there. Also, I think Liberace is a great artist! I would be there.
                                          So, NOT 3 to 4 hours of Zappa; my hope however is the program would still be called "Frank Zappa, the Music and the Man" I will throw in lots of stuff from his musical influences such as Varese, Stravinsky, Johnny Guitar Watson, and some of his collaborators such as The Chieftains, The Ensemble Modern, etc. (Might also decide to add some of the artists who have been influenced by him; not sure yet) If you can provide the lion’s share of a sufficiently high quality system to go with the amp and DAC I could add the turntable I may need for the session, and I could acquire the transportation, carts,  moving paraphanalia, for getting it to the venue, and back to your place safely if needed. Please let me know.
                                          ----Matt
                                           
                                           
                                          From: Don Disbennett <ddisbennett@...>
                                          To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 7:49 PM
                                          Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                           
                                          Matt:
                                           
                                          OK, I am starting to understand a bit better what you are proposing.  However, I would add two caveats:  first, although the focus is on the music, I think most/all of the RCAS members are used to listening to their music on a high quality system, so even though it may not be their system or even a “state of the art” system, it should be of sufficiently high quality to allow the quality of the music (good or bad) to come through; secondly, although we each have our favorites when it comes to a certain artist, I doubt that the other members would want to listen to three or four hours of my favorite artist alone.  I hope I didn’t step on your toes, Matt, as that certainly is not my intent to offend anyone, but I just feel that for a meeting with members representing a wide variety of tastes in music, we may need to vary the content enough to suit the majority of the members attending.  Or I could just bring my collection of Liberace songs, because I know EVERYONE loves his music!  LOL
                                          Also, I would be more than happy to bring any equipment you may need:  I can bring my NAD power amp or NAD integrated amp or one of my DAC’s or even my laptop full of music, including quite a few high rez downloads which is what we used at Ulises house a few weekends ago.
                                          Let me know if I can help in any way!
                                           
                                          Don
                                           
                                          From: Matt
                                          Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 6:42 PM
                                          Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                           
                                           
                                          Don,
                                          I would love to have one of those types of critical listening sessions, however a session in which a system is tweaked the way you describe may not be possible due to time restrictions and venue limitations. Not to say someone couldn't pick up the ball and run with it. I guess the scenario you describe of playing music on a very high quality system to evaluate the music itself, subject to the limitations of that system comes closest to what we are trying to do  ----
                                           
                                          With some variations -- I would not describe the system I am proposing for my session as a very high quality system. However, my hope is it is a system that fits together well and will provide a good listening experience and do justice to the focus of the meeting which will be the music of Frank Zappa.
                                          My apologies for possible misperceptions regarding the use of the word "critical". While the word has some rigid connotations I am actually using it loosely. Real critical listening sessions like the ones you are describing are out of my league. That does not mean I would not love to have some. I just am not the guy to conduct at that particular one. My hope for the critical listening session I would conduct (if it gets off the ground) is for a less rigid, or “critical” bent. My hope is the fun and relaxed atmosphere that has been an important part of what makes the RCAS meetings so great should carry over into a critical listening session, with a few obvious guidelines set down regarding the need for equipment that would be a good fit.
                                          I am proposing to focus on the music for the meeting rather than the equipment, although the equipment should be an important component of the session. Absolutely
                                          From: Don Disbennett <ddisbennett@...>
                                          To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 12:37 PM
                                          Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                           
                                          Hi, Matt:
                                          I am a bit confused about your use of the term “critical listening” to describe the proposed meeting of the RCAS next month.  Normally, when I use the term, I am referring to listening carefully to a piece of high quality music (wide dynamic range, low noise, little or no compression, etc.) with which I am very familiar over a system in which I have made some change which I am trying to evaluate.  It could be a change to an amplifier, speakers, DAC, turntable or even a tweak such as new cables, new position of the speakers, or interconnects.  I then listen to see if the change in the part of the system I am evaluating produces better sound, more detail, wider frequency range, lower noise floor or any other variable related to the reproduction of this piece of music for better or worse.  This is opposed to just listening to a variety of music over the same system, such as we usually do at the end of our RCAS meetings.  Everyone is invited to bring some of their music and play it on the system we have been using during the meeting.  On the other hand, it one wishes to evaluate the quality of a particular piece of music, it is played on a very high quality system to evaluate the music itself, subject to the limitations of that system.  I guess what I am saying is that from your description of the setup thus far, I am not sure which of the above scenarios (or something different entirely) we are trying to do at the proposed meeting.
                                          Sorry if I am missing something!
                                           
                                          Don
                                           
                                          From: Matt
                                          Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 8:20 AM
                                          Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                           
                                           
                                          Steve, Alan, Pierre:
                                          Following up on the idea of a critical listening session meeting. Your input, concerns, and questions, and requests for clarification are requested ----
                                          If all pans out, what say you about doing a listening session late in March (30th)? I have offered to Bob to be the guinea pig and conduct the maident voyage session if we get that far.
                                          There are logistical items that need to be worked out, however my hope is having it in late march will allow enough time for that.
                                          Due to the equipment I want to use in my session the family room at Bjorns has its problems. Also getting the equipment to the venue will require planning on my part for the March session. (or on the part of the presenter at future sessions)
                                          At the risk of putting the cart before the horse allow me to give you a list of what I hope to bring to the meeting in late March if we snag the venue. (Venue details forthcoming)
                                          Please let me know if you have any concerns, questions or suggestions:
                                          Five custom built component stands
                                          power cords
                                          Wire world RCA interconnects
                                          Jolida integrated tube amp
                                          Rega turntable
                                          Rega CD player
                                          Pair of Klipsch subwoofers (KSW200s)
                                          Pair of tower Klipsch Speaker (KLF-20s)
                                          Odds and ends like an 8-outlet audiophile grade power strip & power conditioner
                                           My music program (for the critical listening part) would be -- Frank Zappa the music and the Man Session program and outline forthcoming. My hope is this would be a fun and informative session and a great reason to have a meeting in March.
                                          Again your input, concerns, questions, and requests for clarification are needed and welcome.
                                          From: stevenzaiontz <szaiontz@...>
                                          To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:34 AM
                                          Subject: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                           
                                          Great idea, Matt. Looking forward to it. -Steven --- In mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com, Alan Hendler wrote: > > I would happy to do it. Both the music > and a system > Alan > > > > > > ________________________________ > From:pierrema333 > To:mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, February 12, 2013 9:39:16 PM > Subject: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity > > > Hi. Excellent idea. I am very interested. > > Count on me. > > Pierre Martinez. > > --- In mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com, "thudeets" wrote: > > > > Would any RCAS members be interested in doing critical listening sessions in a > >meeting? Each member who wanted to take a turn could put together a critical > >listening session comprised of their favorite performing artist, genre, > >composter, etc. It could be up to four hours long. This would give everyone the > >opportunity to hear music that they may not otherwise have been exposed to; and > >they could also learn about what music other members like, and they might find a >
                                          >new favorite artist. Plus those who are presenting might find it
                                          particularly > >enjoyable sharing music they find interesting with the group. > > > > > > Bringing in a good audio system would have its benefits. All the components > >would have to be a good fit in order to get the most out of this type of > >activity. > > > > >
                                          > Would anyone else be willing to try out a critical listening session? Would > >anyone be willing to bring in the components for a good system and
                                          participate? > > > > ---Matt > > >
                                        • Alan Hendler
                                          Yes, you are right. The audionote will take up to 24/96 but will resolve to 18 bit which is the resolution of the analog devices 1865n chip. It does no over or
                                          Message 20 of 21 , Feb 17, 2013
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Yes, you are right. The audionote will take up to 24/96 but will resolve to 18 bit which is the resolution
                                            of the analog devices 1865n chip. It does no over or up sampling and has no digital or analog
                                            filter. It also does no jitter reduction. Audionote feels that all these processes negatively
                                            effect the timing of the recovered analog waveform. The dac measures poorly but as I have said
                                            it sounds simply amazing. Maybe when I do a future one of these critical listening sessions I will bring it. Meanwhile I 
                                            will be happy to bring my 5400 sacd player
                                            Alan

                                            From: Don Disbennett <ddisbennett@...>
                                            To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Sun, February 17, 2013 10:59:30 PM
                                            Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity

                                             

                                            Matt/Alan:

                                            I am not familiar with the AudioNote DAC, but I am sure that if Alan thinks it is a good one, it is and I would love to hear it.  However, I will still need to bring another DAC since I believe Alan said the AudioNote is 16/44.1 only and many of my files (Walsh, Beck, etc.) are higher resolution so they wouldn’t play on his DAC.
                                             
                                            Don
                                             
                                            From: Matt
                                            Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 10:49 PM
                                            Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                             
                                             

                                            Alan, the Sony sounds great.
                                             
                                            I think the AudioNote DAC is a great DAC, however I defer to Don. He will know better than I how it fits with the rest of the equipment which he is bringing.
                                            ---Matt
                                             
                                            From: Alan Hendler <alanhendler@...>
                                            To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 8:28 PM
                                            Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                             
                                            Hey guys,
                                            I definetly could bring my Sony 5400 and if you want I could also bring with it
                                            my new AudioNote Dac 2.1b. The combination is unbelievable
                                            Alan
                                             
                                             
                                            From: Don Disbennett <ddisbennett@...>
                                            To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Sun, February 17, 2013 7:01:54 PM
                                            Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                             
                                            Hi, Matt:
                                            I could bring my integrated amp and one of my DAC’s; my Audioengine is currently back at the factory to investigate the noise that has been reported at some of our meetings and confirmed by me here at home.  If it doesn’t make it back in time, I have several others I can bring.   I can bring either my M&K standmount speakers or my smaller Definitive Technology bipolar floorstanders. I Alan wouldn’t mind, he had offered to bring his Sony SACD player, which we all know to be of very high quality. I have a Sony SACD too, but it is not nearly of the caliber of Alan’s, although it won’t make much difference if we run it digitally into my DAC.  You didn’t mention my bringing my laptop, so I guess you don’t need it and therefore I guess you are bringing all the music for the program(I don’t have any Zappa on it).  I do have many other guitarists which might be compared or contrasted to Zappa, such as Jeff Beck or even Joe Walsh or Al Dimeola(and of course, Liberace – JK).
                                            Let me know your thoughts on the above equipment or any suggestions for additions/changes.
                                             
                                            Don
                                             
                                             
                                             
                                            From: Matt
                                            Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 3:48 PM
                                            Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                             
                                             
                                            Don,
                                            My original thought when making the "critical" listening session proposal was that the equipment would be by one person because it would be equipment that has a track record of fitting together well; at least in theory. That person ideally would be the person providing the musical programing for the meeting, however it could be anyone. I know you're not a big analogue fan, so I could still bring a turntable. However, if the offer of the NAD integrated amp DAC still stand that might work. Could you provide a set of speakers that you know work well with said amp, and a CD player to go with the DAC? Let me know. That would be great if so. If the concern is lugging the stuff to whatever venue we end up snagging I would be willing to to the loins share of the planning for that part. What say you?
                                            I get your concern. I haven't said anything yet because I have not finalized the program, but since you brought up a good point you should know that my plan is to throw in stuff that is not Zappa, that way we're not slogging through three or four hours of my favorite artist alone. That said, if anyone gets bored I would have no problem with members excusing themselves early or opting out completely just like one might do based on the agenda for any one of the RCAS meetings. I've got thick skin and hard toes. No problems there. Also, I think Liberace is a great artist! I would be there.
                                            So, NOT 3 to 4 hours of Zappa; my hope however is the program would still be called "Frank Zappa, the Music and the Man" I will throw in lots of stuff from his musical influences such as Varese, Stravinsky, Johnny Guitar Watson, and some of his collaborators such as The Chieftains, The Ensemble Modern, etc. (Might also decide to add some of the artists who have been influenced by him; not sure yet) If you can provide the lion’s share of a sufficiently high quality system to go with the amp and DAC I could add the turntable I may need for the session, and I could acquire the transportation, carts,  moving paraphanalia, for getting it to the venue, and back to your place safely if needed. Please let me know.
                                            ----Matt
                                             
                                             
                                            From: Don Disbennett <ddisbennett@...>
                                            To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 7:49 PM
                                            Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                             
                                            Matt:
                                             
                                            OK, I am starting to understand a bit better what you are proposing.  However, I would add two caveats:  first, although the focus is on the music, I think most/all of the RCAS members are used to listening to their music on a high quality system, so even though it may not be their system or even a “state of the art” system, it should be of sufficiently high quality to allow the quality of the music (good or bad) to come through; secondly, although we each have our favorites when it comes to a certain artist, I doubt that the other members would want to listen to three or four hours of my favorite artist alone.  I hope I didn’t step on your toes, Matt, as that certainly is not my intent to offend anyone, but I just feel that for a meeting with members representing a wide variety of tastes in music, we may need to vary the content enough to suit the majority of the members attending.  Or I could just bring my collection of Liberace songs, because I know EVERYONE loves his music!  LOL
                                            Also, I would be more than happy to bring any equipment you may need:  I can bring my NAD power amp or NAD integrated amp or one of my DAC’s or even my laptop full of music, including quite a few high rez downloads which is what we used at Ulises house a few weekends ago.
                                            Let me know if I can help in any way!
                                             
                                            Don
                                             
                                            From: Matt
                                            Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 6:42 PM
                                            Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                             
                                             
                                            Don,
                                            I would love to have one of those types of critical listening sessions, however a session in which a system is tweaked the way you describe may not be possible due to time restrictions and venue limitations. Not to say someone couldn't pick up the ball and run with it. I guess the scenario you describe of playing music on a very high quality system to evaluate the music itself, subject to the limitations of that system comes closest to what we are trying to do  ----
                                             
                                            With some variations -- I would not describe the system I am proposing for my session as a very high quality system. However, my hope is it is a system that fits together well and will provide a good listening experience and do justice to the focus of the meeting which will be the music of Frank Zappa.
                                            My apologies for possible misperceptions regarding the use of the word "critical". While the word has some rigid connotations I am actually using it loosely. Real critical listening sessions like the ones you are describing are out of my league. That does not mean I would not love to have some. I just am not the guy to conduct at that particular one. My hope for the critical listening session I would conduct (if it gets off the ground) is for a less rigid, or “critical” bent. My hope is the fun and relaxed atmosphere that has been an important part of what makes the RCAS meetings so great should carry over into a critical listening session, with a few obvious guidelines set down regarding the need for equipment that would be a good fit.
                                            I am proposing to focus on the music for the meeting rather than the equipment, although the equipment should be an important component of the session. Absolutely
                                            From: Don Disbennett <ddisbennett@...>
                                            To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 12:37 PM
                                            Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                             
                                            Hi, Matt:
                                            I am a bit confused about your use of the term “critical listening” to describe the proposed meeting of the RCAS next month.  Normally, when I use the term, I am referring to listening carefully to a piece of high quality music (wide dynamic range, low noise, little or no compression, etc.) with which I am very familiar over a system in which I have made some change which I am trying to evaluate.  It could be a change to an amplifier, speakers, DAC, turntable or even a tweak such as new cables, new position of the speakers, or interconnects.  I then listen to see if the change in the part of the system I am evaluating produces better sound, more detail, wider frequency range, lower noise floor or any other variable related to the reproduction of this piece of music for better or worse.  This is opposed to just listening to a variety of music over the same system, such as we usually do at the end of our RCAS meetings.  Everyone is invited to bring some of their music and play it on the system we have been using during the meeting.  On the other hand, it one wishes to evaluate the quality of a particular piece of music, it is played on a very high quality system to evaluate the music itself, subject to the limitations of that system.  I guess what I am saying is that from your description of the setup thus far, I am not sure which of the above scenarios (or something different entirely) we are trying to do at the proposed meeting.
                                            Sorry if I am missing something!
                                             
                                            Don
                                             
                                            From: Matt
                                            Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 8:20 AM
                                            Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                             
                                             
                                            Steve, Alan, Pierre:
                                            Following up on the idea of a critical listening session meeting. Your input, concerns, and questions, and requests for clarification are requested ----
                                            If all pans out, what say you about doing a listening session late in March (30th)? I have offered to Bob to be the guinea pig and conduct the maident voyage session if we get that far.
                                            There are logistical items that need to be worked out, however my hope is having it in late march will allow enough time for that.
                                            Due to the equipment I want to use in my session the family room at Bjorns has its problems. Also getting the equipment to the venue will require planning on my part for the March session. (or on the part of the presenter at future sessions)
                                            At the risk of putting the cart before the horse allow me to give you a list of what I hope to bring to the meeting in late March if we snag the venue. (Venue details forthcoming)
                                            Please let me know if you have any concerns, questions or suggestions:
                                            Five custom built component stands
                                            power cords
                                            Wire world RCA interconnects
                                            Jolida integrated tube amp
                                            Rega turntable
                                            Rega CD player
                                            Pair of Klipsch subwoofers (KSW200s)
                                            Pair of tower Klipsch Speaker (KLF-20s)
                                            Odds and ends like an 8-outlet audiophile grade power strip & power conditioner
                                             My music program (for the critical listening part) would be -- Frank Zappa the music and the Man Session program and outline forthcoming. My hope is this would be a fun and informative session and a great reason to have a meeting in March.
                                            Again your input, concerns, questions, and requests for clarification are needed and welcome.
                                            From: stevenzaiontz <szaiontz@...>
                                            To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:34 AM
                                            Subject: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                             
                                            Great idea, Matt. Looking forward to it. -Steven --- In mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com, Alan Hendler wrote: > > I would happy to do it. Both the music > and a system > Alan > > > > > > ________________________________ > From:pierrema333 > To:mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, February 12, 2013 9:39:16 PM > Subject: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity > > > Hi. Excellent idea. I am very interested. > > Count on me. > > Pierre Martinez. > > --- In mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com, "thudeets" wrote: > > > > Would any RCAS members be interested in doing critical listening sessions in a > >meeting? Each member who wanted to take a turn could put together a critical > >listening session comprised of their favorite performing artist, genre, > >composter, etc. It could be up to four hours long. This would give everyone the > >opportunity to hear music that they may not otherwise have been exposed to; and > >they could also learn about what music other members like, and they might find a >
                                            >new favorite artist. Plus those who are presenting might find it
                                            particularly > >enjoyable sharing music they find interesting with the group. > > > > > > Bringing in a good audio system would have its benefits. All the components > >would have to be a good fit in order to get the most out of this type of > >activity. > > > > >
                                            > Would anyone else be willing to try out a critical listening session? Would > >anyone be willing to bring in the components for a good system and
                                            participate? > > > > ---Matt > > >
                                          • Joseph Bohan
                                            I want to thank Alan for having me over Saturday and sharing our music together. My Louis & Ella never sounded as good as when played using his new AudioNote
                                            Message 21 of 21 , Feb 18, 2013
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              I want to thank Alan for having me over Saturday and sharing our music together. My Louis & Ella never sounded as good as when played using his new AudioNote Dac . My new reference in what is possible from Red Book CD's .   Joe Bohan


                                              From: Alan Hendler <alanhendler@...>
                                              To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 11:16 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity

                                               
                                              Yes, you are right. The audionote will take up to 24/96 but will resolve to 18 bit which is the resolution
                                              of the analog devices 1865n chip. It does no over or up sampling and has no digital or analog
                                              filter. It also does no jitter reduction. Audionote feels that all these processes negatively
                                              effect the timing of the recovered analog waveform. The dac measures poorly but as I have said
                                              it sounds simply amazing. Maybe when I do a future one of these critical listening sessions I will bring it. Meanwhile I 
                                              will be happy to bring my 5400 sacd player
                                              Alan

                                              From: Don Disbennett <ddisbennett@...>
                                              To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Sun, February 17, 2013 10:59:30 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity

                                               
                                              Matt/Alan:

                                              I am not familiar with the AudioNote DAC, but I am sure that if Alan thinks it is a good one, it is and I would love to hear it.  However, I will still need to bring another DAC since I believe Alan said the AudioNote is 16/44.1 only and many of my files (Walsh, Beck, etc.) are higher resolution so they wouldn’t play on his DAC.
                                               
                                              Don
                                               
                                              From: Matt
                                              Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 10:49 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                               
                                               
                                              Alan, the Sony sounds great.
                                               
                                              I think the AudioNote DAC is a great DAC, however I defer to Don. He will know better than I how it fits with the rest of the equipment which he is bringing.
                                              ---Matt
                                               
                                              From: Alan Hendler <alanhendler@...>
                                              To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 8:28 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                               
                                              Hey guys,
                                              I definetly could bring my Sony 5400 and if you want I could also bring with it
                                              my new AudioNote Dac 2.1b. The combination is unbelievable
                                              Alan
                                               
                                               
                                              From: Don Disbennett <ddisbennett@...>
                                              To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Sun, February 17, 2013 7:01:54 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                               
                                              Hi, Matt:
                                              I could bring my integrated amp and one of my DAC’s; my Audioengine is currently back at the factory to investigate the noise that has been reported at some of our meetings and confirmed by me here at home.  If it doesn’t make it back in time, I have several others I can bring.   I can bring either my M&K standmount speakers or my smaller Definitive Technology bipolar floorstanders. I Alan wouldn’t mind, he had offered to bring his Sony SACD player, which we all know to be of very high quality. I have a Sony SACD too, but it is not nearly of the caliber of Alan’s, although it won’t make much difference if we run it digitally into my DAC.  You didn’t mention my bringing my laptop, so I guess you don’t need it and therefore I guess you are bringing all the music for the program(I don’t have any Zappa on it).  I do have many other guitarists which might be compared or contrasted to Zappa, such as Jeff Beck or even Joe Walsh or Al Dimeola(and of course, Liberace – JK).
                                              Let me know your thoughts on the above equipment or any suggestions for additions/changes.
                                               
                                              Don
                                               
                                               
                                               
                                              From: Matt
                                              Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2013 3:48 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                               
                                               
                                              Don,
                                              My original thought when making the "critical" listening session proposal was that the equipment would be by one person because it would be equipment that has a track record of fitting together well; at least in theory. That person ideally would be the person providing the musical programing for the meeting, however it could be anyone. I know you're not a big analogue fan, so I could still bring a turntable. However, if the offer of the NAD integrated amp DAC still stand that might work. Could you provide a set of speakers that you know work well with said amp, and a CD player to go with the DAC? Let me know. That would be great if so. If the concern is lugging the stuff to whatever venue we end up snagging I would be willing to to the loins share of the planning for that part. What say you?
                                              I get your concern. I haven't said anything yet because I have not finalized the program, but since you brought up a good point you should know that my plan is to throw in stuff that is not Zappa, that way we're not slogging through three or four hours of my favorite artist alone. That said, if anyone gets bored I would have no problem with members excusing themselves early or opting out completely just like one might do based on the agenda for any one of the RCAS meetings. I've got thick skin and hard toes. No problems there. Also, I think Liberace is a great artist! I would be there.
                                              So, NOT 3 to 4 hours of Zappa; my hope however is the program would still be called "Frank Zappa, the Music and the Man" I will throw in lots of stuff from his musical influences such as Varese, Stravinsky, Johnny Guitar Watson, and some of his collaborators such as The Chieftains, The Ensemble Modern, etc. (Might also decide to add some of the artists who have been influenced by him; not sure yet) If you can provide the lion’s share of a sufficiently high quality system to go with the amp and DAC I could add the turntable I may need for the session, and I could acquire the transportation, carts,  moving paraphanalia, for getting it to the venue, and back to your place safely if needed. Please let me know.
                                              ----Matt
                                               
                                               
                                              From: Don Disbennett <ddisbennett@...>
                                              To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 7:49 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                               
                                              Matt:
                                               
                                              OK, I am starting to understand a bit better what you are proposing.  However, I would add two caveats:  first, although the focus is on the music, I think most/all of the RCAS members are used to listening to their music on a high quality system, so even though it may not be their system or even a “state of the art” system, it should be of sufficiently high quality to allow the quality of the music (good or bad) to come through; secondly, although we each have our favorites when it comes to a certain artist, I doubt that the other members would want to listen to three or four hours of my favorite artist alone.  I hope I didn’t step on your toes, Matt, as that certainly is not my intent to offend anyone, but I just feel that for a meeting with members representing a wide variety of tastes in music, we may need to vary the content enough to suit the majority of the members attending.  Or I could just bring my collection of Liberace songs, because I know EVERYONE loves his music!  LOL
                                              Also, I would be more than happy to bring any equipment you may need:  I can bring my NAD power amp or NAD integrated amp or one of my DAC’s or even my laptop full of music, including quite a few high rez downloads which is what we used at Ulises house a few weekends ago.
                                              Let me know if I can help in any way!
                                               
                                              Don
                                               
                                              From: Matt
                                              Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 6:42 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                               
                                               
                                              Don,
                                              I would love to have one of those types of critical listening sessions, however a session in which a system is tweaked the way you describe may not be possible due to time restrictions and venue limitations. Not to say someone couldn't pick up the ball and run with it. I guess the scenario you describe of playing music on a very high quality system to evaluate the music itself, subject to the limitations of that system comes closest to what we are trying to do  ----
                                               
                                              With some variations -- I would not describe the system I am proposing for my session as a very high quality system. However, my hope is it is a system that fits together well and will provide a good listening experience and do justice to the focus of the meeting which will be the music of Frank Zappa.
                                              My apologies for possible misperceptions regarding the use of the word "critical". While the word has some rigid connotations I am actually using it loosely. Real critical listening sessions like the ones you are describing are out of my league. That does not mean I would not love to have some. I just am not the guy to conduct at that particular one. My hope for the critical listening session I would conduct (if it gets off the ground) is for a less rigid, or “critical” bent. My hope is the fun and relaxed atmosphere that has been an important part of what makes the RCAS meetings so great should carry over into a critical listening session, with a few obvious guidelines set down regarding the need for equipment that would be a good fit.
                                              I am proposing to focus on the music for the meeting rather than the equipment, although the equipment should be an important component of the session. Absolutely
                                              From: Don Disbennett <ddisbennett@...>
                                              To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 12:37 PM
                                              Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                               
                                              Hi, Matt:
                                              I am a bit confused about your use of the term “critical listening” to describe the proposed meeting of the RCAS next month.  Normally, when I use the term, I am referring to listening carefully to a piece of high quality music (wide dynamic range, low noise, little or no compression, etc.) with which I am very familiar over a system in which I have made some change which I am trying to evaluate.  It could be a change to an amplifier, speakers, DAC, turntable or even a tweak such as new cables, new position of the speakers, or interconnects.  I then listen to see if the change in the part of the system I am evaluating produces better sound, more detail, wider frequency range, lower noise floor or any other variable related to the reproduction of this piece of music for better or worse.  This is opposed to just listening to a variety of music over the same system, such as we usually do at the end of our RCAS meetings.  Everyone is invited to bring some of their music and play it on the system we have been using during the meeting.  On the other hand, it one wishes to evaluate the quality of a particular piece of music, it is played on a very high quality system to evaluate the music itself, subject to the limitations of that system.  I guess what I am saying is that from your description of the setup thus far, I am not sure which of the above scenarios (or something different entirely) we are trying to do at the proposed meeting.
                                              Sorry if I am missing something!
                                               
                                              Don
                                               
                                              From: Matt
                                              Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2013 8:20 AM
                                              Subject: Re: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                               
                                               
                                              Steve, Alan, Pierre:
                                              Following up on the idea of a critical listening session meeting. Your input, concerns, and questions, and requests for clarification are requested ----
                                              If all pans out, what say you about doing a listening session late in March (30th)? I have offered to Bob to be the guinea pig and conduct the maident voyage session if we get that far.
                                              There are logistical items that need to be worked out, however my hope is having it in late march will allow enough time for that.
                                              Due to the equipment I want to use in my session the family room at Bjorns has its problems. Also getting the equipment to the venue will require planning on my part for the March session. (or on the part of the presenter at future sessions)
                                              At the risk of putting the cart before the horse allow me to give you a list of what I hope to bring to the meeting in late March if we snag the venue. (Venue details forthcoming)
                                              Please let me know if you have any concerns, questions or suggestions:
                                              Five custom built component stands
                                              power cords
                                              Wire world RCA interconnects
                                              Jolida integrated tube amp
                                              Rega turntable
                                              Rega CD player
                                              Pair of Klipsch subwoofers (KSW200s)
                                              Pair of tower Klipsch Speaker (KLF-20s)
                                              Odds and ends like an 8-outlet audiophile grade power strip & power conditioner
                                               My music program (for the critical listening part) would be -- Frank Zappa the music and the Man Session program and outline forthcoming. My hope is this would be a fun and informative session and a great reason to have a meeting in March.
                                              Again your input, concerns, questions, and requests for clarification are needed and welcome.
                                              From: stevenzaiontz <szaiontz@...>
                                              To: rivercityaudiosociety@yahoogroups.com
                                              Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2013 4:34 AM
                                              Subject: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity
                                               
                                              Great idea, Matt. Looking forward to it. -Steven --- In mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com, Alan Hendler wrote: > > I would happy to do it. Both the music > and a system > Alan > > > > > > ________________________________ > From:pierrema333 > To:mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com > Sent: Tue, February 12, 2013 9:39:16 PM > Subject: [rivercityaudiosociety] Re: Proposal for possible meeting activity > > > Hi. Excellent idea. I am very interested. > > Count on me. > > Pierre Martinez. > > --- In mailto:rivercityaudiosociety%40yahoogroups.com, "thudeets" wrote: > > > > Would any RCAS members be interested in doing critical listening sessions in a > >meeting? Each member who wanted to take a turn could put together a critical > >listening session comprised of their favorite performing artist, genre, > >composter, etc. It could be up to four hours long. This would give everyone the > >opportunity to hear music that they may not otherwise have been exposed to; and > >they could also learn about what music other members like, and they might find a >
                                              >new favorite artist. Plus those who are presenting might find it
                                              particularly > >enjoyable sharing music they find interesting with the group. > > > > > > Bringing in a good audio system would have its benefits. All the components > >would have to be a good fit in order to get the most out of this type of > >activity. > > > > >
                                              > Would anyone else be willing to try out a critical listening session? Would > >anyone be willing to bring in the components for a good system and
                                              participate? > > > > ---Matt > > >


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