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Re: [Rick's Gardening Tips] Re: Permission to Breathe and drink clean water?

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  • Mike C
    Ben, you ve been hoodwinked.   You ve been hoodwinked to the point where you don t really participate in the process that determines what you are allowed to
    Message 1 of 14 , Nov 21, 2012
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      Ben, you've been hoodwinked.
       
      You've been hoodwinked to the point where you don't really participate in the process that determines what you are allowed to do and have.
       
      You're an easy mark.
       
      A lot of people realized this about themselves in the last election, including me.
       
      Some people will never realize it.
       
      Michael

      --- On Wed, 11/21/12, Ben <banoyes2@...> wrote:


      From: Ben <banoyes2@...>
      Subject: [Rick's Gardening Tips] Re: Permission to Breathe and drink clean water?
      To: ricksgardeningtips@yahoogroups.com
      Date: Wednesday, November 21, 2012, 10:38 AM



       



      We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

      BUT
      according to the "authority" I don't need authority I am the authority
      I guess the "Self Evident " part doesn't apply to everyone

      --- In ricksgardeningtips@yahoogroups.com, Al Gray <captaindragonfarstar@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > Ben, you just don't get it. Without some authority to establish the fact that we have "god-given" rights, then what you say has no basis in fact. 
      > Debbie claimed that we have "god-given" rights. I asked her to show me the basis for that claim. She has not. You did not. So, without any authoritative reference, the claim is nothing more than that; a claim. Someone else could make a counter-claim, declaring that "god" gave them the right to rule your life and you have no rights. 
      >
      > It's just a claim.
      >
      > If the one who made that claim has a gun and and army to back him up, then that trumps your claim of "god-given" rights. 
      >
      > If you want to protect your "god-given" rights, then you'll need a force powerful enough to negate the other person's claim. Once you have over-powered the force that claims the right to rule your life, then you have established these rights on your own. They are not and never were "god-given" rights. These are rights established by the collective will of the people. 
      >
      > God, it seems, is not interested in your "rights". 
      >
      > Dragon
      >
      >
      >
      > --- On Wed, 11/21/12, Ben <banoyes2@...> wrote:
      >
      > From: Ben <banoyes2@...>
      > Subject: Re: [Rick's Gardening Tips] Permission to Breathe and drink clean water?
      > To: ricksgardeningtips@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Wednesday, November 21, 2012, 6:45 AM
      >
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      > You are the source Al- I am the source- Debbie is the source-
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      > She needs no law to tell you not to touch her
      >
      > - it is part of being HUMAN
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      >
      >
      > --- In ricksgardeningtips@yahoogroups.com, Al Gray <captaindragonfarstar@> wrote:
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      > >
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      > > --- On Wed, 11/21/12, Ben <banoyes2@> wrote:
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      > > >>>
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      > > Al-try Inalienable Right.
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      > >
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      > > O.K. Debbie has not yet provided a source for that "inalienable right". You want to try it?
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      > > Dragon
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      > > From: Ben <banoyes2@>
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      > > Subject: Re: [Rick's Gardening Tips] Permission to Breathe and drink clean water?
      >
      > > To: ricksgardeningtips@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > > Date: Wednesday, November 21, 2012, 5:36 AM
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      > > Another verbose journey to nowhere ville
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      > > Al-try Inalienable Right.
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      > > --- In ricksgardeningtips@yahoogroups.com, Al Gray <captaindragonfarstar@> wrote:
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      > > > You declared that clean air and water is a god-given right. You DO remember that? All I did was ask for documentation, the source of your belief that it is a god-given right. 
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      > > > Without any authoritative reference to back up this assertion, then your statement is invalid, your declaration is without foundation. It becomes more of a faint hope and a "gee it sure would be nice" than some kind of right that was bestowed upon us. 
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      > > > There is no evidence that I've ever seen or heard tell of that clean air or clean water or good health or short lines at the checkout counter or overdraft protection are god-given rights. Much evidence exists to the contrary, really. 
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      > > > If "god", whoever he or she is, gave us that right, then why do we not still have that right? If god does not back it up with force, then it is not a gift or a right at all. I can give you the local bank, saying that this is yours to keep and have forever and ever. But if I don't back that gift up with what it takes to make it so, then it is not a gift at all. 
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      > > > Perhaps "god" really did give us that right. Maybe some other "god" gave others the right to take away our clean air. That explanation might work. It would explain why we don't naturally have clean air. We have to work for it, to protect it. 
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      > >
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      > > >
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      > > > If some other "god" granted other people the right to take away our clean air, then what does that say about the "god" that gave it to us? Who's the biggest and baddest god on the planet now?
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      > > > Or maybe it is as I've read for years, that this is a planet of free will. In the final analysis, there are only two choices; STS or STO. Service To Self or Service To Others. Free will. That was really what "god" gave us. 
      >
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      > > >
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      > > > Now doesn't that make more sense than declaring that we have been given a gift from a "god" who is so weak and ineffective as to let another "god" take away our gifts? 
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      > > > If you have some authoritative source for this idea that clean air and clean water are god-given rights, then please share it with the group. If you cannot back up that statement, then it becomes nothing more than wishful thinking. 
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      > > > Dragon
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      > > > --- On Tue, 11/20/12, Deb Martindale <delemara@> wrote:
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      > > > From: Deb Martindale <delemara@>
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      > > > Subject: [Rick's Gardening Tips] Permission to Breathe and drink clean water?
      >
      > >
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      > > > To: "Yahoo Group - ricksgardeningtips" <ricksgardeningtips@yahoogroups.com>
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      > > > Date: Tuesday, November 20, 2012, 6:19 PM
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      > > > Documentation? You want documentation for human beings to have the RIGHT to breathe clean air and drink clean water? You're kidding, right?
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      > > > From whom do you think I need permission or documentation for my right to breath clean air and drink clean water?
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      > > > By virtue of the fact that I was born on planet Earth I have those rights. I don't need documentation. I don't need permission.
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      > > > Other people DON'T have the right to foul my air and water.
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      > > > Isn't what "Rick's Gardening Tips" is about - helping make our air breathable because someone chose to take away our right to clean air?
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      > > > Earth Mama
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    • Kimber
      It s true that if a statement is repeated enough, most people will believe it. Take that asininity about all men being created equal, for instance. ~James
      Message 2 of 14 , Nov 27, 2012
      • 0 Attachment
        "It's true that if a statement is repeated enough, most people will believe it. Take that asininity about all men being created equal, for instance."

        ~James Melbourne


        Kimber
        -----Original Message-----
        From: ricksgardeningtips@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ricksgardeningtips@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Al Gray
        Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 8:54 AM
        To: ricksgardeningtips@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: Re: [Rick's Gardening Tips] Re: Permission to Breathe and drink clean water?



        --- On Wed, 11/21/12, Ben <banoyes2@...> wrote:







        >>>We hold these truths to be self-evident,
        That is a simple assertion, an opinion.

        >>>that all men are created equal,
        Obviously they are not. Not equal in intelligence, in potential, in determination. Not equally resistant to temptation. Not equally committed to the Revolution. Not equal in strength, weight, stature, agility, comprehension. Their response to fear and other stimuli is not equal. It is an absurd idea put forth by Thomas Jefferson as something that would appeal to the masses and get their support for his Declaration of Independence.
        Obviously Jefferson did not believe that all men are created equal. He was a slave owner. Women in those days were not socially equal to men, either. This whole thing is the kind of stuff that promotes plant growth and has been endlessly repeated over the centuries by easily led, easily deceived people.

        >>>that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,
        I'm still seeking the basis for the belief that the Creator gave us certain rights. You have not provided any proof that such rights were endowed.

        Dragon

        that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

        BUT
        according to the "authority" I don't need authority I am the authority
        I guess the "Self Evident " part doesn't apply to everyone

        --- In ricksgardeningtips@yahoogroups.com, Al Gray <captaindragonfarstar@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Ben, you just don't get it. Without some authority to establish the fact that we have "god-given" rights, then what you say has no basis in fact.Â
        > Debbie claimed that we have "god-given" rights. I asked her to show me the basis for that claim. She has not. You did not. So, without any authoritative reference, the claim is nothing more than that; a claim. Someone else could make a counter-claim, declaring that "god" gave them the right to rule your life and you have no rights.Â
        >
        > It's just a claim.
        >
        > If the one who made that claim has a gun and and army to back him up, then that trumps your claim of "god-given" rights.Â
        >
        > If you want to protect your "god-given" rights, then you'll need a force powerful enough to negate the other person's claim. Once you have over-powered the force that claims the right to rule your life, then you have established these rights on your own. They are not and never were "god-given" rights. These are rights established by the collective will of the people.Â
        >
        > God, it seems, is not interested in your "rights".Â
        >
        > Dragon
        >
        >
        >
        > --- On Wed, 11/21/12, Ben <banoyes2@...> wrote:
        >
        > From: Ben <banoyes2@...>
        > Subject: Re: [Rick's Gardening Tips] Permission to Breathe and drink clean water?
        > To: ricksgardeningtips@yahoogroups.com
        > Date: Wednesday, November 21, 2012, 6:45 AM
        >
        >
        >
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        > You are the source Al- I am the source- Debbie is the source-
        >
        > She needs no law to tell you not to touch her
        >
        > - it is part of being HUMAN
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In ricksgardeningtips@yahoogroups.com, Al Gray <captaindragonfarstar@> wrote:
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > --- On Wed, 11/21/12, Ben <banoyes2@> wrote:
        >
        > >
        >
        > > >>>
        >
        > > Al-try Inalienable Right.
        >
        > >
        >
        > > O.K. Debbie has not yet provided a source for that "inalienable right". You want to try it?
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Dragon
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > From: Ben <banoyes2@>
        >
        > > Subject: Re: [Rick's Gardening Tips] Permission to Breathe and drink clean water?
        >
        > > To: ricksgardeningtips@yahoogroups.com
        >
        > > Date: Wednesday, November 21, 2012, 5:36 AM
        >
        > >
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        > > Another verbose journey to nowhere ville
        >
        > >
        >
        > > Al-try Inalienable Right.
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > --- In ricksgardeningtips@yahoogroups.com, Al Gray <captaindragonfarstar@> wrote:
        >
        > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > >
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        >
        > > > You declared that clean air and water is a god-given right. You DO remember that? All I did was ask for documentation, the source of your belief that it is a god-given right.ÂÂÂ
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > Without any authoritative reference to back up this assertion, then your statement is invalid, your declaration is without foundation. It becomes more of a faint hope and a "gee it sure would be nice" than some kind of right that was bestowed upon us.ÂÂÂ
        >
        > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > There is no evidence that I've ever seen or heard tell of that clean air or clean water or good health or short lines at the checkout counter or overdraft protection are god-given rights. Much evidence exists to the contrary, really.ÂÂÂ
        >
        > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > If "god", whoever he or she is, gave us that right, then why do we not still have that right? If god does not back it up with force, then it is not a gift or a right at all. I can give you the local bank, saying that this is yours to keep and have forever and ever. But if I don't back that gift up with what it takes to make it so, then it is not a gift at all.ÂÂÂ
        >
        > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > Perhaps "god" really did give us that right. Maybe some other "god" gave others the right to take away our clean air. That explanation might work. It would explain why we don't naturally have clean air. We have to work for it, to protect it.ÂÂÂ
        >
        > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > If some other "god" granted other people the right to take away our clean air, then what does that say about the "god" that gave it to us? Who's the biggest and baddest god on the planet now?
        >
        > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > Or maybe it is as I've read for years, that this is a planet of free will. In the final analysis, there are only two choices; STS or STO. Service To Self or Service To Others. Free will. That was really what "god" gave us.ÂÂÂ
        >
        > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > Now doesn't that make more sense than declaring that we have been given a gift from a "god" who is so weak and ineffective as to let another "god" take away our gifts?ÂÂÂ
        >
        > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > If you have some authoritative source for this idea that clean air and clean water are god-given rights, then please share it with the group. If you cannot back up that statement, then it becomes nothing more than wishful thinking.ÂÂÂ
        >
        > >
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        > > >
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        > > > Dragon
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        > >
        >
        > > > --- On Tue, 11/20/12, Deb Martindale <delemara@> wrote:
        >
        > >
        >
        > > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > From: Deb Martindale <delemara@>
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > Subject: [Rick's Gardening Tips] Permission to Breathe and drink clean water?
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > To: "Yahoo Group - ricksgardeningtips" <ricksgardeningtips@yahoogroups.com>
        >
        > >
        >
        > > > Date: Tuesday, November 20, 2012, 6:19 PM
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        > > > Documentation? You want documentation for human beings to have the RIGHT to breathe clean air and drink clean water? You're kidding, right?
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        > > > From whom do you think I need permission or documentation for my right to breath clean air and drink clean water?
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        > > > By virtue of the fact that I was born on planet Earth I have those rights. I don't need documentation. I don't need permission.
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        > > > Other people DON'T have the right to foul my air and water.
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        > > > Isn't what "Rick's Gardening Tips" is about - helping make our air breathable because someone chose to take away our right to clean air?
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        Yahoo! Groups Links
      • Ben
        A quote from some unknown, proves only how desperate you are All people are created equal - however they do not have equal abilities two different subjects
        Message 3 of 14 , Nov 28, 2012
        • 0 Attachment
          A quote from some unknown, proves only how desperate you are
          All people are created equal -
          however they do not have equal abilities
          two different subjects
          they are equal in that they ( we ) are all connected and all part of Creation- the Great Spirit
          and if you need proof
          remember love-the most powerful force
          AND
          if at this point you do not realize the founders of the USA
          were ALL part of the PTB plan--you are way behind
          they engaged in the genocide of a whole people
          and the enslavement of the populace-


          --- In ricksgardeningtips@yahoogroups.com, "Kimber" <rainlyre5@...> wrote:
          >
          > "It's true that if a statement is repeated enough, most people will believe it. Take that asininity about all men being created equal, for instance."
          >
          > ~James Melbourne
          >
          >
          > Kimber
          > -----Original Message-----
          > From: ricksgardeningtips@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ricksgardeningtips@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Al Gray
          > Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 8:54 AM
          > To: ricksgardeningtips@yahoogroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [Rick's Gardening Tips] Re: Permission to Breathe and drink clean water?
          >
          >
          >
          > --- On Wed, 11/21/12, Ben <banoyes2@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > >>>We hold these truths to be self-evident,
          > That is a simple assertion, an opinion.
          >
          > >>>that all men are created equal,
          > Obviously they are not. Not equal in intelligence, in potential, in determination. Not equally resistant to temptation. Not equally committed to the Revolution. Not equal in strength, weight, stature, agility, comprehension. Their response to fear and other stimuli is not equal. It is an absurd idea put forth by Thomas Jefferson as something that would appeal to the masses and get their support for his Declaration of Independence.
          > Obviously Jefferson did not believe that all men are created equal. He was a slave owner. Women in those days were not socially equal to men, either. This whole thing is the kind of stuff that promotes plant growth and has been endlessly repeated over the centuries by easily led, easily deceived people.
          >
          > >>>that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,
          > I'm still seeking the basis for the belief that the Creator gave us certain rights. You have not provided any proof that such rights were endowed.
          >
          > Dragon
          >
          > that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
          >
          > BUT
          > according to the "authority" I don't need authority I am the authority
          > I guess the "Self Evident " part doesn't apply to everyone
          >
          > --- In ricksgardeningtips@yahoogroups.com, Al Gray <captaindragonfarstar@> wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > > Ben, you just don't get it. Without some authority to establish the fact that we have "god-given" rights, then what you say has no basis in fact.Â
          > > Debbie claimed that we have "god-given" rights. I asked her to show me the basis for that claim. She has not. You did not. So, without any authoritative reference, the claim is nothing more than that; a claim. Someone else could make a counter-claim, declaring that "god" gave them the right to rule your life and you have no rights.Â
          > >
          > > It's just a claim.
          > >
          > > If the one who made that claim has a gun and and army to back him up, then that trumps your claim of "god-given" rights.Â
          > >
          > > If you want to protect your "god-given" rights, then you'll need a force powerful enough to negate the other person's claim. Once you have over-powered the force that claims the right to rule your life, then you have established these rights on your own. They are not and never were "god-given" rights. These are rights established by the collective will of the people.Â
          > >
          > > God, it seems, is not interested in your "rights".Â
          > >
          > > Dragon
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > --- On Wed, 11/21/12, Ben <banoyes2@> wrote:
          > >
          > > From: Ben <banoyes2@>
          > > Subject: Re: [Rick's Gardening Tips] Permission to Breathe and drink clean water?
          > > To: ricksgardeningtips@yahoogroups.com
          > > Date: Wednesday, November 21, 2012, 6:45 AM
          > >
          > >
          > >
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          > > You are the source Al- I am the source- Debbie is the source-
          > >
          > > She needs no law to tell you not to touch her
          > >
          > > - it is part of being HUMAN
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > --- In ricksgardeningtips@yahoogroups.com, Al Gray <captaindragonfarstar@> wrote:
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > --- On Wed, 11/21/12, Ben <banoyes2@> wrote:
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > >>>
          > >
          > > > Al-try Inalienable Right.
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > O.K. Debbie has not yet provided a source for that "inalienable right". You want to try it?
          > >
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          > >
          > > > Dragon
          > >
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          > > >
          > >
          > > > From: Ben <banoyes2@>
          > >
          > > > Subject: Re: [Rick's Gardening Tips] Permission to Breathe and drink clean water?
          > >
          > > > To: ricksgardeningtips@yahoogroups.com
          > >
          > > > Date: Wednesday, November 21, 2012, 5:36 AM
          > >
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          > > > Another verbose journey to nowhere ville
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > Al-try Inalienable Right.
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > --- In ricksgardeningtips@yahoogroups.com, Al Gray <captaindragonfarstar@> wrote:
          > >
          > > >
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          > > > > You declared that clean air and water is a god-given right. You DO remember that? All I did was ask for documentation, the source of your belief that it is a god-given right.ÃÆ'‚ÂÂ
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > > Without any authoritative reference to back up this assertion, then your statement is invalid, your declaration is without foundation. It becomes more of a faint hope and a "gee it sure would be nice" than some kind of right that was bestowed upon us.ÃÆ'‚ÂÂ
          > >
          > > >
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          > > > >
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          > >
          > > > > There is no evidence that I've ever seen or heard tell of that clean air or clean water or good health or short lines at the checkout counter or overdraft protection are god-given rights. Much evidence exists to the contrary, really.ÃÆ'‚ÂÂ
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > > If "god", whoever he or she is, gave us that right, then why do we not still have that right? If god does not back it up with force, then it is not a gift or a right at all. I can give you the local bank, saying that this is yours to keep and have forever and ever. But if I don't back that gift up with what it takes to make it so, then it is not a gift at all.ÃÆ'‚ÂÂ
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > >
          > >
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          > >
          > > > > Perhaps "god" really did give us that right. Maybe some other "god" gave others the right to take away our clean air. That explanation might work. It would explain why we don't naturally have clean air. We have to work for it, to protect it.ÃÆ'‚ÂÂ
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > > If some other "god" granted other people the right to take away our clean air, then what does that say about the "god" that gave it to us? Who's the biggest and baddest god on the planet now?
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > > Or maybe it is as I've read for years, that this is a planet of free will. In the final analysis, there are only two choices; STS or STO. Service To Self or Service To Others. Free will. That was really what "god" gave us.ÃÆ'‚ÂÂ
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > > Now doesn't that make more sense than declaring that we have been given a gift from a "god" who is so weak and ineffective as to let another "god" take away our gifts?ÃÆ'‚ÂÂ
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > > If you have some authoritative source for this idea that clean air and clean water are god-given rights, then please share it with the group. If you cannot back up that statement, then it becomes nothing more than wishful thinking.ÃÆ'‚ÂÂ
          > >
          > > >
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          > > > > Dragon
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          > >
          > > > > --- On Tue, 11/20/12, Deb Martindale <delemara@> wrote:
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > >
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > > From: Deb Martindale <delemara@>
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > > Subject: [Rick's Gardening Tips] Permission to Breathe and drink clean water?
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > > To: "Yahoo Group - ricksgardeningtips" <ricksgardeningtips@yahoogroups.com>
          > >
          > > >
          > >
          > > > > Date: Tuesday, November 20, 2012, 6:19 PM
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          > > > > Documentation? You want documentation for human beings to have the RIGHT to breathe clean air and drink clean water? You're kidding, right?
          > >
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          > > > > From whom do you think I need permission or documentation for my right to breath clean air and drink clean water?
          > >
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          > > > > By virtue of the fact that I was born on planet Earth I have those rights. I don't need documentation. I don't need permission.
          > >
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          > > > > Other people DON'T have the right to foul my air and water.
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          > > > > Isn't what "Rick's Gardening Tips" is about - helping make our air breathable because someone chose to take away our right to clean air?
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          > > > > Earth Mama
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        • Kimber
          Hi Ben, I was responding to Al s (Dragon s?) email and was summing up Al’s paragraph below with a sentence. Sorry to throw an unknown quote at you.
          Message 4 of 14 , Nov 29, 2012
          • 0 Attachment
            Hi Ben,
            I was responding to Al's (Dragon's?) email and was summing up Al’s paragraph below with a sentence. Sorry to throw an unknown quote at you. Didn't realize it would offend you.

            Nope I don't need proof. But thanks anyway....

            I do have a problem with using the term "all men are created equal" and "The PTB" in the same sentence/paragraph though...Because it seems to contradict. Sorry to be such a nitpicker...

            It also seems to me that the only real need is for everyone or 'the people' to learn to take back all the power we have given away, and to own our own lives at all costs. And it does cost because we have to do the inner work. Then the next step is to freely share our lives with others.

            We all own ourself and we can pretend to sell ourself and we can forfeit our defense of our selves…And we do this all the time. But the fact remains that we are responsible for how we act and react to the PTB. Rights only exist to the extent to which they can be demanded. If they cannot be demanded because all power to demand has been forfeited than what good are they?

            And there are costs –to the self in taking back our "we the people" status. Because one must learn to see where one is being a complete and total hypocrit and change ones ways. And I did read on this yahoo group where someone wrote about the truth will set you free but first it will really piss you off!…. Sooo true. It isn’t easy. I’m just saying that it is necessary to own one’s own personal life first (self responsibility) and to at least attempt to live an authentic life, if one decides to make an effort to work successfully with others.

            In this way the PTB will turn into the PTW. (powers that WERE). Until then freedom is an idea –but not yet a reality. Metaphysically, You are already *free*. But until we all come to know that truth we are still in bondage— The words are KNOW the truth and the truth will set you free. and KNOW thyself. Not presume or wish or pretend---but *know*. Knowledge is what gives us strength. And Compassion.
            So until it is acknowledged and taught widely that owning or perhaps 'owning up to!' our own lives is what allows us to use them in service to Universal Law and Principle then this argument about whether all men being equal is “self evident” or not “self evident” and whether or not we have rights is going to continue… But once we all own up and overcome the need to blame, then the PTB will by default become the PTW. At least in theory :-)


            I'm fairly confident that this quote is not an unknown: "Enlightenment happens when your third eye is in perfect alignment with your turd eye and you can see your own shit"
            Christopher White?

            Best,
            Kimber

            -----Original Message-----
            From: ricksgardeningtips@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ricksgardeningtips@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ben
            Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2012 3:33 AM
            To: ricksgardeningtips@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [Rick's Gardening Tips] Re: Permission to Breathe and drink clean water?

            A quote from some unknown, proves only how desperate you are
            All people are created equal -
            however they do not have equal abilities
            two different subjects
            they are equal in that they ( we ) are all connected and all part of Creation- the Great Spirit
            and if you need proof
            remember love-the most powerful force
            AND
            if at this point you do not realize the founders of the USA
            were ALL part of the PTB plan--you are way behind
            they engaged in the genocide of a whole people
            and the enslavement of the populace-


            --- In ricksgardeningtips@yahoogroups.com, "Kimber" <rainlyre5@...> wrote:
            >
            > "It's true that if a statement is repeated enough, most people will believe it. Take that asininity about all men being created equal, for instance."
            >
            > ~James Melbourne
            >
            >
            > Kimber
            > -----Original Message-----
            > From: ricksgardeningtips@yahoogroups.com [mailto:ricksgardeningtips@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Al Gray
            > Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 8:54 AM
            > To: ricksgardeningtips@yahoogroups.com
            > Subject: Re: [Rick's Gardening Tips] Re: Permission to Breathe and drink clean water?
            >
            >
            >
            > --- On Wed, 11/21/12, Ben <banoyes2@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > >>>We hold these truths to be self-evident,
            > That is a simple assertion, an opinion.
            >
            > >>>that all men are created equal,
            > Obviously they are not. Not equal in intelligence, in potential, in determination. Not equally resistant to temptation. Not equally committed to the Revolution. Not equal in strength, weight, stature, agility, comprehension. Their response to fear and other stimuli is not equal. It is an absurd idea put forth by Thomas Jefferson as something that would appeal to the masses and get their support for his Declaration of Independence.
            > Obviously Jefferson did not believe that all men are created equal. He was a slave owner. Women in those days were not socially equal to men, either. This whole thing is the kind of stuff that promotes plant growth and has been endlessly repeated over the centuries by easily led, easily deceived people.
            >
            > >>>that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,
            > I'm still seeking the basis for the belief that the Creator gave us certain rights. You have not provided any proof that such rights were endowed.
            >
            > Dragon
            >
            > that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
            >
            > BUT
            > according to the "authority" I don't need authority I am the authority
            > I guess the "Self Evident " part doesn't apply to everyone
            >
            > --- In ricksgardeningtips@yahoogroups.com, Al Gray <captaindragonfarstar@> wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > Ben, you just don't get it. Without some authority to establish the fact that we have "god-given" rights, then what you say has no basis in fact.Â
            > > Debbie claimed that we have "god-given" rights. I asked her to show me the basis for that claim. She has not. You did not. So, without any authoritative reference, the claim is nothing more than that; a claim. Someone else could make a counter-claim, declaring that "god" gave them the right to rule your life and you have no rights.Â
            > >
            > > It's just a claim.
            > >
            > > If the one who made that claim has a gun and and army to back him up, then that trumps your claim of "god-given" rights.Â
            > >
            > > If you want to protect your "god-given" rights, then you'll need a force powerful enough to negate the other person's claim. Once you have over-powered the force that claims the right to rule your life, then you have established these rights on your own. They are not and never were "god-given" rights. These are rights established by the collective will of the people.Â
            > >
            > > God, it seems, is not interested in your "rights".Â
            > >
            > > Dragon
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --- On Wed, 11/21/12, Ben <banoyes2@> wrote:
            > >
            > > From: Ben <banoyes2@>
            > > Subject: Re: [Rick's Gardening Tips] Permission to Breathe and drink clean water?
            > > To: ricksgardeningtips@yahoogroups.com
            > > Date: Wednesday, November 21, 2012, 6:45 AM
            > >
            > >
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            > > You are the source Al- I am the source- Debbie is the source-
            > >
            > > She needs no law to tell you not to touch her
            > >
            > > - it is part of being HUMAN
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > > --- In ricksgardeningtips@yahoogroups.com, Al Gray <captaindragonfarstar@> wrote:
            > >
            > > >
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            > > >
            > >
            > > > --- On Wed, 11/21/12, Ben <banoyes2@> wrote:
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            > >
            > > > >>>
            > >
            > > > Al-try Inalienable Right.
            > >
            > > >
            > >
            > > > O.K. Debbie has not yet provided a source for that "inalienable right". You want to try it?
            > >
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            > > > Dragon
            > >
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            > > >
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            > > >
            > >
            > > > From: Ben <banoyes2@>
            > >
            > > > Subject: Re: [Rick's Gardening Tips] Permission to Breathe and drink clean water?
            > >
            > > > To: ricksgardeningtips@yahoogroups.com
            > >
            > > > Date: Wednesday, November 21, 2012, 5:36 AM
            > >
            > > >
            > >
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            > > > Another verbose journey to nowhere ville
            > >
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            > >
            > > > Al-try Inalienable Right.
            > >
            > > >
            > >
            > > >
            > >
            > > >
            > >
            > > > --- In ricksgardeningtips@yahoogroups.com, Al Gray <captaindragonfarstar@> wrote:
            > >
            > > >
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            > > > > You declared that clean air and water is a god-given right. You DO remember that? All I did was ask for documentation, the source of your belief that it is a god-given right.ÃÆ'‚ÂÂ
            > >
            > > >
            > >
            > > > > Without any authoritative reference to back up this assertion, then your statement is invalid, your declaration is without foundation. It becomes more of a faint hope and a "gee it sure would be nice" than some kind of right that was bestowed upon us.ÃÆ'‚ÂÂ
            > >
            > > >
            > >
            > > > >
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            > >
            > > > > There is no evidence that I've ever seen or heard tell of that clean air or clean water or good health or short lines at the checkout counter or overdraft protection are god-given rights. Much evidence exists to the contrary, really.ÃÆ'‚ÂÂ
            > >
            > > >
            > >
            > > > >
            > >
            > > >
            > >
            > > > > If "god", whoever he or she is, gave us that right, then why do we not still have that right? If god does not back it up with force, then it is not a gift or a right at all. I can give you the local bank, saying that this is yours to keep and have forever and ever. But if I don't back that gift up with what it takes to make it so, then it is not a gift at all.ÃÆ'‚ÂÂ
            > >
            > > >
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            > > > >
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            > >
            > > > > Perhaps "god" really did give us that right. Maybe some other "god" gave others the right to take away our clean air. That explanation might work. It would explain why we don't naturally have clean air. We have to work for it, to protect it.ÃÆ'‚ÂÂ
            > >
            > > >
            > >
            > > > >
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            > > >
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            > > > > If some other "god" granted other people the right to take away our clean air, then what does that say about the "god" that gave it to us? Who's the biggest and baddest god on the planet now?
            > >
            > > >
            > >
            > > > >
            > >
            > > >
            > >
            > > > > Or maybe it is as I've read for years, that this is a planet of free will. In the final analysis, there are only two choices; STS or STO. Service To Self or Service To Others. Free will. That was really what "god" gave us.ÃÆ'‚ÂÂ
            > >
            > > >
            > >
            > > > >
            > >
            > > >
            > >
            > > > > Now doesn't that make more sense than declaring that we have been given a gift from a "god" who is so weak and ineffective as to let another "god" take away our gifts?ÃÆ'‚ÂÂ
            > >
            > > >
            > >
            > > > >
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            > >
            > > > > If you have some authoritative source for this idea that clean air and clean water are god-given rights, then please share it with the group. If you cannot back up that statement, then it becomes nothing more than wishful thinking.ÃÆ'‚ÂÂ
            > >
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            > > > > Dragon
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            > >
            > > > > --- On Tue, 11/20/12, Deb Martindale <delemara@> wrote:
            > >
            > > >
            > >
            > > > >
            > >
            > > >
            > >
            > > > > From: Deb Martindale <delemara@>
            > >
            > > >
            > >
            > > > > Subject: [Rick's Gardening Tips] Permission to Breathe and drink clean water?
            > >
            > > >
            > >
            > > > > To: "Yahoo Group - ricksgardeningtips" <ricksgardeningtips@yahoogroups.com>
            > >
            > > >
            > >
            > > > > Date: Tuesday, November 20, 2012, 6:19 PM
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            > > > > Documentation? You want documentation for human beings to have the RIGHT to breathe clean air and drink clean water? You're kidding, right?
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            > > > > From whom do you think I need permission or documentation for my right to breath clean air and drink clean water?
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            > > > > By virtue of the fact that I was born on planet Earth I have those rights. I don't need documentation. I don't need permission.
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            > > > > Other people DON'T have the right to foul my air and water.
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            > > > > Isn't what "Rick's Gardening Tips" is about - helping make our air breathable because someone chose to take away our right to clean air?
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            > ------------------------------------
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >




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