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Condoleezza Rice's Star Rising

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  • Ken Hamilton
    http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10602793 Ken Hamilton I m a Condista!
    Message 1 of 15 , Dec 25 2:10 PM
       
      Ken Hamilton
       
       
      I'm a Condista!
      Custom Smiley
       
    • spike angle
      Ken, may I borrow your WONDERFUL animated I m a Condista emoticon? Thanks in advance -- spike
      Message 2 of 15 , Dec 27 2:09 PM
        Ken, may I borrow your WONDERFUL animated "I'm a Condista" emoticon?

        Thanks in advance -- spike
      • Ken Hamilton
        Sure you can use it. And you can make your own by using www.smileycentral.com. Ken Hamilton I m a Condista!
        Message 3 of 15 , Dec 27 6:23 PM
          Sure you can use it.  And you can make your own by using www.smileycentral.com.
           
          Ken Hamilton 
           
           
          I'm a Condista!
          Custom Smiley
           





        • Peter Dow
          Ken s link http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10602793 was to such a good article for us that I thought I d quote it in full. - Peter Dow, Owner, Rice for President Yahoo
          Message 4 of 15 , Dec 28 6:57 AM
            Ken's link
            was to such a good article for us that I thought I'd quote it in full.
             
            - Peter Dow, Owner, Rice for President Yahoo Group
             

            Condoleezza Rice’s star rising

            Secretary of state most popular member of Bush administration

            Image: Rice
            By a mix of charm, luck and physical distance from the White House, Secretary of State Rice has managed to escape the fate of Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney, whose public approval ratings are low.
            Thierry Roge / Reuters file

            WASHINGTON - Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has become the most popular member of the Bush administration and a potential candidate to succeed her boss in the White House, even as Americans lose confidence in the president she serves and patience with the Iraq war she helped launch.
             
            Entering her second year as the country’s senior diplomat and foreign policy spokeswoman, Rice has improbably shed much of her image as the hawkish “warrior princess” at President Bush’s side. The nickname was reportedly bestowed by her staff at the White House National Security Council, where Rice was an intimate member of Bush’s first-term war council.
             
            Rice resolutely defends the post-Sept. 11 war on terrorism and the expansive executive powers that Bush claims came with it. She has lately sounded more optimistic than Bush about the progress of the Iraq war and the future for that country.
             
            Yet, it is unusual to hear anyone talk about Rice as an architect of either of those two defining undertakings of the Bush presidency.
             
            By a mix of charm, luck and physical distance from the White House, Rice has managed to escape the fate of Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney, who saw their public approval ratings fall to historic lows before rebounding slightly recently.
             
            Kurt Campbell, director of the International Security Program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, credits Rice’s heavy travel schedule, an approach to diplomacy that is more pragmatic than other Bush advisers, and a measure of personal pluck.
             
            “She appears to have sort of skated away” from controversies over U.S. intelligence failures and aggressive U.S. tactics in the hunt for terrorists, Campbell said, and from the perception that the United States is “slogging” along in Iraq.
             
            ‘A very hard thing to pull off’
            “She appears at once to be close to the president but separate and detached from some of the foibles of the administration, and that’s a very hard thing to pull off,” he said.
             
            Rice was as strong a public voice as any for going to war in Iraq. She once famously warned of Saddam Hussein’s presumed weapons of mass destruction: “We don’t want the smoking gun to be a mushroom cloud.”
             
            Although Rice’s first-term record on Iraq, terrorism and other subjects made for a contentious Senate confirmation hearing last January, most Americans apparently do not hold her personally responsible.
             
            A Pew Research survey in October found that 60 percent of respondents held either a very favorable or mostly favorable view of Rice, while 25 percent had a very or mostly unfavorable view — numbers others in the Bush administration can only envy.
             
            Two years after ousted Iraqi President Saddam Hussein was captured, 64 percent of respondents said the Iraq war was the right thing to do. An AP-Ipsos poll this month showed that only 42 percent now say it was the right decision, and support has also dropped for staying in Iraq until the country is stabilized.
             
            As for Bush, 42 percent said in this month’s AP poll that they approve of his job performance, while 57 percent disapproved. That was up from a 37 percent approval rating in November, but well below his stratospheric numbers after Sept. 11.
             
            Rice still has a long way to go to convince skeptics overseas that the United States is not pursuing a misadventure in Iraq, and she will always be the public face abroad of an administration that many in Europe and the Arab world distrust, said Nathan Brown, visiting scholar at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.
             
            ‘A slightly friendlier image’
            “She may present a slightly softer image, a slightly friendlier image, one that is not knee-jerk defensive” on issues like the mistreatment of terrorism detainees, Brown said. “But there are limits to what she can do so long as the policy is unpopular.”
             
            There is a glamour factor to Rice’s appeal, and curiosity about the first black woman to hold the nation’s top diplomatic post.
             
            Rice, 51, grew up in the segregated South. She tries to soften the brash image the United States often projects abroad by telling audiences the discrimination she faced is proof that America isn’t perfect.
             
            Rice has never married. She works long hours and keeps fit with a rigorous daily exercise regimen. A clotheshorse, Rice has posed for Vogue magazine in a couture ball gown.
             
            She is fiercely loyal to Bush, and tries to downplay her own rising stock and his public slide. Although mentioned as a possible Republican candidate for president in 2008, Rice says she has never wanted to run for elected office.
            “I’ve got my hands full and I know what my skills, I think, are,” Rice said in an Associated Press interview this month.
             
            She declined to point to any specific accomplishments for which she takes personal credit, although she said she is pleased by developments including warmer US-European relations after a chill over the Iraq invasion.
             
            “I’m a historian,” Rice said in the interview. “I tend to see things in the big sweep of history and hope that at some point somebody is going to look back and say, oh, something that she did then mattered.”
             

            Ken Hamilton <jlhkih@...> wrote:
             
            Ken Hamilton
             
             
            I'm a Condista!
            Custom Smiley
             


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          • spike angle
            Ken: Thankee-sai! (Are you by chance a Dark Tower aficionado?) As for creating my own, I m sure that html is not beyond me. I have already used a few basic
            Message 5 of 15 , Dec 30 11:34 AM

              Ken: Thankee-sai! (Are you by chance a Dark Tower aficionado?)

              As for "creating my own," I'm sure that html is not beyond me. I have already used a few basic functions on the Web site I maintain for my own Gifted & Talented (g/t) advocacy Yahoo Group's web site. But honestly I have neither the time nor the inclination to sit down and learn it to the extent ***I*** would judge acceptable as long as I'm simultaneously dealing with multiple orthopedic reconstructive surgeries, a deployed husband who is in harm's way every day in Iraq, AND in full-time, fully-accredited (NOT a "diploma mill") online grad school.

              I'm about halfway to an M.Ed., concentration Leadership & Administration, with the goal of someday endowing & administering (in partnership with my giftie, military medical-professional husband) an indie g/t school, thereby giving back to the g/t community all it has given to me over the years. The schedule for my grad program is BRUTAL, even for a "spookybright": an entire semester gets packed into 8 weeks; at least one, usually two, heavy-duty APA-compliant research papers are required each week in addition to 3-6 Forum postings of substantive content, at least one of them entirely original utilizing resources NOT in the required readings (which in and of themselves are crushing, even for my freakish reading speed) and at least two of them thoughtful responses to other students' postings which EXTEND their range with still further independent references. Whew! LOL!

              I earned my first "M.A. equivalent" (ask me sometime) when I graduated with my B.A., magna cum laude double major Economics and Political Science, 22 years ago. I then jumped directly into a VERY prestigious Ph.D. program in Political Economy on full fellowship (thanks to conservative Olin Foundation, through which I also met Dinesh D'Souza when he was every bit as young and starry-eyed as I was) which dammitdammitdammit I dropped out of when begged to by an NY/NJ company which employed me freelance and then offered me a "glamorous" bi-coastal job in media production. Oh, how I hate myself in retrospect for that Big Mistake...! I learned a lot in that job, and it launched an extremely successful 20-yr First Career in sci/tech biz-to-biz multimedia marcom...yet here I am in my mid-40s, humbly back in grad school re-credentialing to do basically what I wanted to do in the first place. Talkaboucher extended detour ;) 

              -- spike

              New sig, with your emoticon added -- again, thank you!:
              Pamela "Spike" Cheney Angle, CBC, M.Ed. in progress
              Proud US Navy wife
              Executive Director, The ORION Initiative
              ~ launching an off-Earth future for the gifted & talented since 1996 ~
              http://members.tripod.com/orionaut-ivil

              I'm a Condista!
              Custom Smiley 

            • Peter Dow
              Well there goes my mental image of Spike as that British-vampire-guy from Buffy the Vampire Slayer . Although I guess that some US Navy wives have something
              Message 6 of 15 , Jan 10, 2006
                Well there goes my mental image of "Spike" as that British-vampire-guy from "Buffy the Vampire Slayer".
                 
                Although I guess that some US Navy wives have something of the vampire-slayer about them? Respect.
                 
                Nice to get to know something about you Spike.
                 
                My life story is probably not so interesting - but I've got a website if anyone is interested - http://scots.8k.com
                - Peter
                 
                -
                spike angle <ORIONaut@...> wrote:
                Ken: Thankee-sai! (Are you by chance a Dark Tower aficionado?)
                As for "creating my own," I'm sure that html is not beyond me. I have already used a few basic functions on the Web site I maintain for my own Gifted & Talented (g/t) advocacy Yahoo Group's web site. But honestly I have neither the time nor the inclination to sit down and learn it to the extent ***I*** would judge acceptable as long as I'm simultaneously dealing with multiple orthopedic reconstructive surgeries, a deployed husband who is in harm's way every day in Iraq, AND in full-time, fully-accredited (NOT a "diploma mill") online grad school.
                I'm about halfway to an M.Ed., concentration Leadership & Administration, with the goal of someday endowing & administering (in partnership with my giftie, military medical-professional husband) an indie g/t school, thereby giving back to the g/t community all it has given to me over the years. The schedule for my grad program is BRUTAL, even for a "spookybright": an entire semester gets packed into 8 weeks; at least one, usually two, heavy-duty APA-compliant research papers are required each week in addition to 3-6 Forum postings of substantive content, at least one of them entirely original utilizing resources NOT in the required readings (which in and of themselves are crushing, even for my freakish reading speed) and at least two of them thoughtful responses to other students' postings which EXTEND their range with still further independent references. Whew! LOL!
                I earned my first "M.A. equivalent" (ask me sometime) when I graduated with my B.A., magna cum laude double major Economics and Political Science, 22 years ago. I then jumped directly into a VERY prestigious Ph.D. program in Political Economy on full fellowship (thanks to conservative Olin Foundation, through which I also met Dinesh D'Souza when he was every bit as young and starry-eyed as I was) which dammitdammitdammit I dropped out of when begged to by an NY/NJ company which employed me freelance and then offered me a "glamorous" bi-coastal job in media production. Oh, how I hate myself in retrospect for that Big Mistake...! I learned a lot in that job, and it launched an extremely successful 20-yr First Career in sci/tech biz-to-biz multimedia marcom...yet here I am in my mid-40s, humbly back in grad school re-credentialing to do basically what I wanted to do in the first place. Talkaboucher extended detour ;) 
                -- spike

                New sig, with your emoticon added -- again, thank you!:
                Pamela "Spike" Cheney Angle, CBC, M.Ed. in progress
                Proud US Navy wife
                Executive Director, The ORION Initiative
                ~ launching an off-Earth future for the gifted & talented since 1996 ~
                http://members.tripod.com/orionaut-ivil
                I'm a Condista!
                Custom Smiley 


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              • spike angle
                Peter: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!! If n ya wanna see my pic (with hubby Jason, pre-Navy long hair) to help you gel your new mental image, you ll find it at:
                Message 7 of 15 , Jan 10, 2006
                  Peter: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

                  If'n ya wanna see my pic (with hubby Jason, pre-Navy long hair) to help you
                  gel your new mental image, you'll find it at:
                  http://profiles.yahoo.com/orionaut

                  If'n ya wanna read my bio, you'll find it at:
                  http://members.tripod.com/orionaut-ivil/id25.html

                  spike
                • WMB Tolson
                  Wow Spike, Impressive bio, interesting involvements. I also want to add to one of your previous posts, in which you pointed out the vast improvements in
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jan 12, 2006

                    Wow Spike,

                    Impressive bio, interesting involvements.

                     

                    I also want to add to one of your previous posts, in which you pointed out the vast improvements in military medical procedures and the consequent reduction of casualties.  Similar improvements have been made in weapons, tactics, protective gear, armor, surveillance, reconnaissance and threat detection.  All reduce losses, blue-on-blue and civilian casualties.  You won’t hear this from the media.

                     

                    Your pride in your husband’s profession is heartwarming.  Medical personnel are amazing to me.  Their courage in the hell of combat is unbelievable.  My son is a Navy pilot and I have similar pride in him.  Keep the faith and let’s support Condi.  She has the integrity, intelligence and strength of principle to stand behind our loved ones with a true understanding of what they are doing for the nation and the world.  I fervently hope that we can succeed in drafting her for the presidency.

                     

                    Until now I’ve just been lurking in the wings watching this group.  I’ve sometimes thought it was too far off-topic, and that personal interchanges were taking place that should be carried out off to the side via individual e-mails.  Now here I am violating that principle.  Sorry, folks!  But I am hoping to inspire other group members to follow the links Spike gave us and see what a great asset she is to the group.  We need the energy and intelligence of quality people like Spike on our side if we hope to slay the Democrats’ Hillarocious Bloodsucker. 

                     

                    - bill tolson

                     


                    From: rice-for-president@yahoogroups.com [mailto:rice-for-president@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of spike angle
                    Sent: Tuesday, January 10, 2006 2:31 PM
                    To: rice-for-president@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: RE: [rice-for-president] Spike, not a vampire, but maybe a slayer?

                     

                    Peter: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

                    If'n ya wanna see my pic (with hubby Jason, pre-Navy long hair) to help you
                    gel your new mental image, you'll find it at:
                    http://profiles.yahoo.com/orionaut

                    If'n ya wanna read my bio, you'll find it at:
                    http://memberstripod.com/orionaut-ivil/id25.html

                    spike



                  • spike angle
                    ... Peculiar bio, fruitbat involvements is more like it, rotfl! But I do thank you for your kind words & send my personal salute and fervent moral support to
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jan 12, 2006
                      Bill wrote:
                      >Wow Spike,
                      >Impressive bio, interesting involvements.

                      Peculiar bio, fruitbat involvements is more like it, rotfl!

                      But I do thank you for your kind words & send my personal salute and fervent
                      moral support to your USN son. How long has he been in and where is he
                      stationed? Jason was a VERY late joiner at 29 -- post B.A. & 5 yrs civilian
                      mgmt experience -- & will hit his 2-yr enlistment anniversary next month.
                      When he maxed out (99th percentile) both his initial aptitude battery
                      (ASVAB) and his OCS exam they gave him the haity eyeball and told him he
                      could specialize in pretty much anything he wanted, up to & including
                      becoming a pilot...but his objective in enlisting in the first place was
                      getting Uncle Sam to pay his way thru med school, so this what he has been
                      consistently (and persistently ;)) telling anyone who'll listen evr since
                      his first visit to the recruiter back in Cleveland.

                      I get him back for fewer than 45 days after his return from Iraq before he
                      ships out again, this time to OCS in Pensacola for almost 4 months. Dayummm,
                      I'm gonna forget what the man looks like :-P.

                      Count us as TWO votes for Condi -- spike
                    • William Tolson
                      Spikewrote: * your USN son. How long has he been in and where is he stationed? Graduated USNA 2002, now VP45 Jacksonville FL. Married, NK. He spent
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jan 13, 2006

                        Spikewrote:

                        Ø       your USN son. How long has he been in and where is he stationed?

                        Graduated USNA 2002, now VP45 Jacksonville FL.  Married, NK.  He spent training time in Pensacola , they liked it there.   He was incountry Iraq 6mo last yr & got to fly a lotta great missions.

                         

                        Ø       [Jason] maxed out both his initial aptitude battery(ASVAB) and his OCS exam

                        :-O  wow hairy eyeball is right!  The hairiest!!  :-D

                         

                        Ø       med school, so this what he has been consistently (and persistently ;)) telling anyone who'll listen

                        Bill had similar passion to be pilot ever since he saw Top Gun when a little kid.  Now he R one.  Persistence does pay.

                         

                        Ø       gonna forget what the man looks like :-P

                        Here’s a good link 4ya.                 8-)

                        - bill

                         

                      • Peter Dow
                        SPIKE! Eugenics - eu·gen·ics [ yoo jénniks ] noun Definitions: selective breeding as proposed human improvement: the proposed improvement
                        Message 11 of 15 , Feb 6, 2006
                          SPIKE!
                           
                          Eugenics -
                           
                          eu·gen·ics [ yoo jénniks ]


                          noun 
                          Definitions:
                           
                          selective breeding as proposed human improvement: the proposed improvement of the human species by encouraging or permitting reproduction of only those people with genetic characteristics judged desirable. It has been regarded with disfavor since the Nazi period. ( takes a singular verb )
                           
                          Tut tut Spike! And what if someone had decided that your or your loving hubby's ancestors were not allowed to breed? Then you or he might not be here!
                           
                          Yet did I not read somewhere on your page that you SAY you are a libertarian? A "libertarian" who wants to deny people the simple liberty to raise a family? I don't think you are making sense.
                           
                          The American dream - Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness - and raising a family is what makes people happy. So I guess, not being an American, that all Americans feel they have the right to have a family - and that is a right I support 100%.
                           
                          Eugenics isn't libertarian - it is fascist!
                           
                          Also, the right to a family life is included in the Charter of Fundamental Rights of the European Union.
                           
                          So America is against you on this Spike, and Europe is against you - and that only leaves Adolph Hilter on your side - and he's dead!
                           
                          You have an interest in space - me too -
                           
                          Here's a video I produced on the Apollo man on the moon mission -
                           
                           
                          Your interest in space colonization reminded me somewhat of this -
                           
                          THE B-ARK
                           
                          Golgafrincham, home of the Great Circling Poets of Arium, decided it was time to rid itself of an entire useless third of its population, and so concocted a story that their planet would shortly be destroyed in some great catastrophe. The useless third of the population (consisting of hairdressers, tired TV producers, insurance salesmen, personnel officers, security guards, management consultants, telephone sanitizers and the like) were packed into the B-Ark, one of three giant Ark spaceships, and told that everyone else would follow shortly in the other two. The other two thirds of the population, of course, did not follow and "led full, rich and happy lives until they were all suddenly wiped out by a virulent disease contracted from unsanitary telephones".
                          The B-Ark was programmed to crash-land on a suitably remote planet on one of the outer spiral arms of the galaxy, which happened to be Earth, and the Golgafrinchan rejects gradually mingled with and usurped the native cavemen*, becoming the ancestors of humanity and thereby altering the course of the great experiment to find the question for the Answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything. A lot of them didn't make it through the winter three years prior to Arthur Dent's reunion with Ford Prefect, and the few who remained in the spring said they needed a holiday and set out on a raft. History says they must have survived.
                          People from Golgafrincham are called Golgafrinchans. In some versions of the book The Restaurant at the End of the Universe, the planet is also referred to as "Golgafrinchan", but this usage is less common and is thought to be an error of typography.
                          See also ship of fools.

                           
                          Now I'm not actually in favour of getting rid of people with silly or dangerous views - like eugenics - so I wouldn't like to blast you off into outer space just to get rid of you Spike. Not at all.
                           
                          Also your hubby is obviously a VERY USEFUL person - not in the "useless third" of the population at all. I used quotes because that isn't my view of 1/3 of the population.
                           
                          So anyway, won't you stay here on earth and help ALL those people that want to, to raise their families?
                           
                          Why don't you love people, like Condi does - don't hate them like Adoph did.
                           
                          Back to Condi Rice for President - I've often thought it a shame that Condi hasn't had any children because she is a very talented person and we could do with more like her (as well as more of the ordinary talented people like you and me Spike.)
                           
                          Peter Dow, Rice for President Yahoo Group
                           

                          spike angle <ORIONaut@...> wrote:
                          Peter: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

                          If'n ya wanna see my pic (with hubby Jason, pre-Navy long hair) to help you
                          gel your new mental image, you'll find it at:
                          http://profiles.yahoo.com/orionaut

                          If'n ya wanna read my bio, you'll find it at:
                          http://members.tripod.com/orionaut-ivil/id25.html

                          spike





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                        • spike angle
                          ... Peter: Eugenics = literallym from the Greek: bred well. Did you miss the word voluntary ? Did you miss the alternate formulation conscious assortative
                          Message 12 of 15 , Feb 7, 2006
                            Peter wrote:
                            > eu�gen�ics [ yoo j�nniks ]
                            >
                            >noun Definitions: selective breeding as proposed human
                            >improvement: the proposed improvement of the human species by encouraging
                            >or permitting reproduction of only those people with genetic
                            >characteristics judged desirable. It has been regarded with disfavor since
                            >the Nazi period. ( takes a singular verb )
                            > http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861609359/eugenics.html
                            >
                            >
                            > Tut tut Spike! And what if someone had decided that your or your loving
                            >hubby's ancestors were not allowed to breed? Then you or he might not be
                            >here!


                            Peter:
                            Eugenics = literallym from the Greek: bred well.

                            Did you miss the word "voluntary"?
                            Did you miss the alternate formulation "conscious assortative mating"?

                            I abhor any sort of outside control of Human breeding or any other sort of
                            Human choice. I also, however, wholeheartedly support and work to encourage
                            individuals voluntarily making choices which look beyond the narrow margins
                            of their own lives, whether it be improving conditions in their own time via
                            political action, or in their descendants' time via responsible reproductive
                            choices NOW.

                            I suggest you use that trusty dictionary to look up the difference between
                            "voluntary" and "coerced," and between "population" and "individual." While
                            you're at it, see what that specific dictionary lists as the definition of
                            "liberal." You might be surprised.

                            spike

                            p.s. I'll go there if you will, but please remember that YOU were the one
                            who took this list "off topic."
                          • Peter Dow
                            Spike, (If she s still reading?) I don t think people want to be preached at with regard to their reproductive choices. Rather, what politics and what I think
                            Message 13 of 15 , Feb 12, 2006
                              Spike, (If she's still reading?)
                               
                              I don't think people want to be preached at with regard to their reproductive choices. Rather, what politics and what I think Condi Rice is about is helping people and their families.
                               
                              Anyway, if you are wanting to impress, I suggest you drop the word "eugenics" and maybe say something like "an interest in family planning" or some other less-loaded term on your home pages.
                               
                              Likewise, I think you need to remember how the Nazis' views about themselves as a master-race have discredited any idea of a political authority deciding or even advising who is breeding-worthy and who isn't.
                               
                              However, if you don't have any political intentions in that direction then let's drop the subject.
                               
                              On that "liberal" word: (AGAIN?)
                               
                              Well what would really surprise me would be if Eric and or you could state your definition of "liberal" in more precise terms than "people or politics you don't like".
                               
                              It doesn't surprise me Spike when I've tried to pin you down on that point, you retreat from the debate (breaking camp for Americans for Rice? - bless them).
                               
                              (Although, looking ahead I see Spike is still posting here. Good 'cos I was so pleased when she told us about her brave husband serving in Iraq - I'd hate to lose her.)
                              - Peter

                              spike angle <ORIONaut@...> wrote:
                              Peter wrote:
                              > eu·gen·ics [ yoo jénniks ]
                              >
                              >noun Definitions: selective breeding as proposed human
                              >improvement: the proposed improvement of the human species by encouraging
                              >or permitting reproduction of only those people with genetic
                              >characteristics judged desirable. It has been regarded with disfavor since
                              >the Nazi period. ( takes a singular verb )
                              > http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861609359/eugenics.html
                              >
                              >
                              > Tut tut Spike! And what if someone had decided that your or your loving
                              >hubby's ancestors were not allowed to breed? Then you or he might not be
                              >here!


                              Peter:
                              Eugenics = literallym from the Greek: bred well.

                              Did you miss the word "voluntary"?
                              Did you miss the alternate formulation "conscious assortative mating"?

                              I abhor any sort of outside control of Human breeding or any other sort of
                              Human choice. I also, however, wholeheartedly support and work to encourage
                              individuals voluntarily making choices which look beyond the narrow margins
                              of their own lives, whether it be improving conditions in their own time via
                              political action, or in their descendants' time via responsible reproductive
                              choices NOW.

                              I suggest you use that trusty dictionary to look up the difference between
                              "voluntary" and "coerced," and between "population" and "individual." While
                              you're at it, see what that specific dictionary lists as the definition of
                              "liberal." You might be surprised.

                              spike

                              p.s. I'll go there if you will, but please remember that YOU were the one
                              who took this list "off topic."





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                            • Eric and Kathy Craft
                              Remember, you asked. Liberal (1); A person who believes in redistributing wealth and property from each according to their means to each according to their
                              Message 14 of 15 , Feb 12, 2006
                                Remember, you asked.

                                Liberal (1); A person who believes in redistributing wealth and
                                property from each according to their means to each according to their
                                needs, thus negating incentive or desire for individual achievement or
                                excellence.

                                Liberal (2); A person who believes that a high quality of life can be
                                achieved through high taxes.

                                Liberal (3); A person who believes that they are owed a living by
                                society, regardless of their own effort or lack of effort to make a
                                living for them self.

                                Liberal (4); A person who believes that evil can be appeased.

                                Liberal (5); Neville Chamberlain.
                                http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/eurodocs/uk/peace.html

                                Conservative (1); Winston Churchill.
                                http://www.winstonchurchill.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=1
                                http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Sir_Winston_Churchill/

                                Conservative (2); Ronald Reagan
                                http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/rr40.html
                                http://www.ronaldreagan.com/
                                http://www.presidentreagan.info/

                                Eric...


                                On 2/12/06, Peter Dow <peterdow@...> wrote:

                                > Well what would really surprise me would be if Eric and or you could state your definition of "liberal" in more precise terms than "people or politics you don't like".
                              • Bob Wilson
                                Sure does seems like someone needs a time-out.....folks, let s not loose our way. I enjoy reading all the post. Have a good Day.....Bob Eric and Kathy Craft
                                Message 15 of 15 , Feb 12, 2006
                                  Sure does seems like someone needs a time-out.....folks, let's not loose our way.  I enjoy reading all the post.  Have a good Day.....Bob

                                  Eric and Kathy Craft <thecrafts@...> wrote:
                                  Remember, you asked.

                                  Liberal (1); A person who believes in redistributing wealth and
                                  property from each according to their means to each according to their
                                  needs, thus negating incentive or desire for individual achievement or
                                  excellence.

                                  Liberal (2); A person who believes that a high quality of life can be
                                  achieved through high taxes.

                                  Liberal (3); A person who believes that they are owed a living by
                                  society, regardless of their own effort or lack of effort to make a
                                  living for them self.

                                  Liberal (4); A person who believes that evil can be appeased.

                                  Liberal (5); Neville Chamberlain.
                                  http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/eurodocs/uk/peace.html

                                  Conservative (1); Winston Churchill.
                                  http://www.winstonchurchill.org/i4a/pages/index.cfm?pageid=1
                                  http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/Sir_Winston_Churchill/

                                  Conservative (2); Ronald Reagan
                                  http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/rr40.html
                                  http://www.ronaldreagan.com/
                                  http://www.presidentreagan.info/

                                  Eric...


                                  On 2/12/06, Peter Dow <peterdow@...> wrote:

                                  > Well what would really surprise me would be if Eric and or you could state your definition of "liberal" in more precise terms than "people or politics you don't like".



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