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144,000

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  • KennethGentry@cs.com
    In a message dated 12/18/2007 10:38:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, ... I understand the untold multitude to be the eventual RESULT of the protection of the
    Message 1 of 6 , Dec 18, 2007
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      In a message dated 12/18/2007 10:38:13 AM Eastern Standard Time,
      editor@... writes:


      >
      > The parallel you cite from Rev 7 actually counts in the other
      > direction. The seeing/hearing dynamic means that the 144,000 numbered
      > are from the tribes of Israel and *are also* those without number from
      > every tribe, language, people and nation. I see no prioritising of the
      > Jerusalem church *in the text*.

      I understand the untold multitude to be the eventual RESULT of the protection
      of the marked 144,000. The 144,000 are "first fruits" (Rev 14) which lead to
      a later, larger harvest.

      Unfortunately, to present my position would require a commentary itself
      (which I am working ont)! Such is the drawback to brief interaction on the
      Internet. I believe the theme of Rev is Christ's judgment coming against those
      covenantally responsible for his crucifixion, the Jews (Rev 1:7; cp. Mt 24:2, 16, 30,
      34).


      Kenneth L. Gentry, Jr., Th.M., Th.D.
      Director, GoodBirth Ministries
      <A HREF="www.goodbirthministries.com">GoodBirth Ministries</A>

      Owner, KennethGentry.Com
      <A HREF="www.KennethGentry.Com">KennethGentry.Com</A>
      "Serious Studies for Serious Christians"

      Revelation Commentary Project
      If you would like to give toward funding my research on
      Revelation please go to <A HREF="www.KennethGentry.Com">KennethGentry.Com</A> then click
      on "Revelation Commentary Project."
      </HTML>


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    • Ian Paul
      ... OK, but I wonder whether this relates to my earlier question about what our shared assumptions are as a discussion group. I think I have a difficulty with
      Message 2 of 6 , Dec 18, 2007
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        On 18 Dec 2007, at 17:08, KennethGentry@... wrote:

        > I understand the untold multitude to be the eventual RESULT of the
        > protection
        > of the marked 144,000. The 144,000 are "first fruits" (Rev 14) which
        > lead to
        > a later, larger harvest.


        OK, but I wonder whether this relates to my earlier question about
        what our shared assumptions are as a discussion group.

        I think I have a difficulty with this approach, with has to do with
        methodology. You appear (correct me if I am wrong) to be working from
        a fairly high-level theological construction of what is happening in
        relation to covenant themes, and then doing your exegesis in the light
        of that, both in this post and the previous one. Your statement that
        it takes a whole commentary to justify your exegesis of this
        particular texts points to such an approach.

        The difficulty here is that it is the text itself which is the source
        of any theology we might do. So logically (if not temporally) exegesis
        of the text must be prior to any higher level theological framework.

        Without that discipline, all readings will be inherently circular. So
        I could come to the text with a *different* theological conviction, do
        my exegesis in the light of that, and so find the text supports my
        quite alternative position.

        Ian
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