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RE: [revelation-list] Second death

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  • Bob MacDonald
    George writes: proleptically as having suffered Ken references a suspicion of a link to John 5:24 George - thanks for the note. I think your explanation is not
    Message 1 of 11 , Nov 12, 2005
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      George writes: proleptically as having suffered
      Ken references a suspicion of a link to John 5:24

      George - thanks for the note. I think your explanation is
      not far off from supporting my thesis that the implied first
      death in Rev is like Paul's image of baptism in Romans, a
      real identification with the suffering and death of the
      firstborn and an overcoming through this death. Thank you
      for the interpretation of the 1000 years - nice work and
      good idea - one day in thy courts is better than a thousand
      also comes to mind as an indication of the notion of
      'eternal' - a subject that has been debated at least since
      Aquinas

      Ken - re John 5:24-29; these verses are part of a double
      chiasm with the centre of each focussing on opposites -
      believing and non believing. Given the complex concentric
      structures in Revelation, it is possible that the same poet
      wrote both - but hardly necessary. (For the double chiasm
      see http://bmd.gx.ca/synoptic/tuej_only_viii.htm#141

      I have no axe to grind on this - but sometimes I wonder if
      the reputed young man in the rich young man story (only in
      Mark) might not have been the poet of G John (but not John
      of Patmos) - too many inferences to resolve...

      Bob

      Bob MacDonald
      http://bobmacdonald.gx.ca
      Victoria, B.C., Canada

      Catch the foxes for us,
      the little foxes that make havoc of the vineyards,
      for our vineyards are in flower. (Song 2.15)
    • KennethGentry@cs.com
      In a message dated 11/12/2005 8:39:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, ... Bob: I do not used the seeming relationship between Rev 20 and John 5 as evidence for
      Message 2 of 11 , Nov 12, 2005
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        In a message dated 11/12/2005 8:39:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,
        bobmacdonald@... writes:


        > Ken - re John 5:24-29; these verses are part of a double
        > chiasm with the centre of each focussing on opposites -
        > believing and non believing. Given the complex concentric
        > structures in Revelation, it is possible that the same poet
        > wrote both - but hardly necessary.

        Bob:

        I do not used the seeming relationship between Rev 20 and John 5 as evidence
        for Johannine authorship of Rev. 20. I already have in mind (from other
        evidence) that John is the author of both the Gospel and the Revelation. Having that
        in mind, I see a double resurrection in John 5 and suppose that since (on
        other grounds) John wrote Rev 20, that he would be picking up on his already
        established two resurrection motif.

        I see Rev 11:2 as reflecting Luke 21:24 also. But I (obviously) wouldn't say
        this is evidence Luke wrote Revelation.

        I am afraid I may have made you think I was using the Rev 20 / John 5
        similarity as evidence of authorship. That was a mistaken impression that I didn't
        intend.

        Thanks,

        Ken

        Kenneth L. Gentry, Jr., M.Div, Th.M., Th.D
        www.KennethGentry.com
        "Serious Studies for Serious Christians"

        Chancellor and Research Professor in Theology
        Christ College, Lynchburg, Virginia
        www.Christ-College.edu


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