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[Rev. List]: No More Sea?

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  • Timothy P. Jenney
    Can anyone out there suggest a plausible reason for Rev. 21:1 and the sea was no more ? Thanks in advance, Timothy P. Jenney
    Message 1 of 9 , Sep 12, 2003
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      Can anyone out there suggest a plausible reason for Rev. 21:1 "and the sea
      was no more"?

      Thanks in advance,

      Timothy P. Jenney
    • Newell, Terry-Michael
      Barbara R. Rossing in The Choice between Two Cities: Whore, Bride, and Empire in the Apocalypse gives a convincing argument that the disappearance of the sea
      Message 2 of 9 , Sep 12, 2003
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        RE: [revelation-list] [Rev. List]: No More Sea?

        Barbara R. Rossing in "The Choice between Two Cities: Whore, Bride, and Empire in the Apocalypse" gives a convincing argument that the disappearance of the sea represents a "contrast between the political economies of New Jerusalem and Babylon."  The 'sea' represents the shipping economy of Babylon or in her words,  the "location of evil."  The alternative presented in the Apocalypse is "an economy that provides the essentials of life 'without payment.'" (cf. Rev. 21:6; 22:17)

        See Rossing, pp. 145-146.

        Thanks,
        Terry-Michael Newell
        Campbell University
        Buies Creek, NC
        USA

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Timothy P. Jenney [mailto:drjenney@...]
        Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 9:31 AM
        To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [revelation-list] [Rev. List]: No More Sea?


        Can anyone out there suggest a plausible reason for Rev. 21:1 "and the sea
        was no more"?

        Thanks in advance,

        Timothy P. Jenney


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      • Ranko Stefanovic
        In my REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST (published by Andrews University Press, 1992) I suggest that -- apart the metaphorical meaning of the word sea in Rev 21:1 --
        Message 3 of 9 , Sep 12, 2003
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          In my REVELATION OF JESUS CHRIST (published by Andrews University Press,
          1992) I suggest that -- apart the metaphorical meaning of the word sea in
          Rev 21:1 -- the statement might reflect John's own experience on Patmos (it
          is not any sea but "the sea" in Greek). John did not see his own sea; it
          meant to him the absence of all that caused him suffer while on Patmos (cf.
          21:4).

          Ranko Stefanovic
          Professor of New Testament
          Department of Religion and Biblical Languages
          Andrews University
          rstefano@...
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Timothy P. Jenney" <drjenney@...>
          To: <revelation-list@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 8:30 AM
          Subject: [revelation-list] [Rev. List]: No More Sea?


          >
          > Can anyone out there suggest a plausible reason for Rev. 21:1 "and the sea
          > was no more"?
          >
          > Thanks in advance,
          >
          > Timothy P. Jenney
          >
          >
          >
          > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
          > revelation-list-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
          >
          >
          >
          > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
          >
          >
        • Georg S. Adamsen
          RE: [revelation-list] [Rev. List]: No More Sea?Why is it convincing? What are her arguments? Dr. Georg S. Adamsen ... Fra: Newell, Terry-Michael
          Message 4 of 9 , Sep 12, 2003
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            RE: [revelation-list] [Rev. List]: No More Sea?
            Why is it convincing? What are her arguments?
             
            Dr. Georg S. Adamsen
            -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
            Fra: Newell, Terry-Michael [mailto:newell@...]
            Sendt: 12. september 2003 17.19
            Til: 'revelation-list@yahoogroups.com'
            Emne: RE: [revelation-list] [Rev. List]: No More Sea?

            Barbara R. Rossing in "The Choice between Two Cities: Whore, Bride, and Empire in the Apocalypse" gives a convincing argument that the disappearance of the sea represents a "contrast between the political economies of New Jerusalem and Babylon."  The 'sea' represents the shipping economy of Babylon or in her words,  the "location of evil."  The alternative presented in the Apocalypse is "an economy that provides the essentials of life 'without payment.'" (cf. Rev. 21:6; 22:17)

            See Rossing, pp. 145-146.

            Thanks,
            Terry-Michael Newell
            Campbell University
            Buies Creek, NC
            USA

            -----Original Message-----
            From: Timothy P. Jenney [mailto:drjenney@...]
            Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 9:31 AM
            To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [revelation-list] [Rev. List]: No More Sea?


            Can anyone out there suggest a plausible reason for Rev. 21:1 "and the sea
            was no more"?

            Thanks in advance,

            Timothy P. Jenney


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          • Greg Clarke
            The sea in Rev 21:1 I have always taken as symbolic in general of the source of evil being removed. But regarding another water symbol, does anyone see any
            Message 5 of 9 , Sep 13, 2003
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              Re: SV: [revelation-list] [Rev. List]: No More Sea? The sea in Rev 21:1 I have always taken as symbolic in general of the source of evil being removed. But regarding another water symbol, does anyone see any connection between the sea surrounding the throne in 4:6 and the 'new sea' in Rev 22:1, which flows from the throne into the city rather than just surrounding the throne. Can any interpretive weight be given to such a symbolic shift or 'development'?

              Greg



              --
              Dr G.J. Clarke
              Director, Centre for Apologetic Scholarship and Education (CASE)
              New College
              University of New South Wales
              Sydney NSW 2052
              Ph. (61 2) 9381 1730
              Fax. (61 2) 9381 1909
              Email. g.clarke@...
              www.newcollege.unsw.edu.au/case.php



              From: "Georg S. Adamsen" <georg@...>
              Reply-To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 01:50:32 +0200
              To: <revelation-list@yahoogroups.com>
              Subject: SV: [revelation-list] [Rev. List]: No More Sea?


              Why is it convincing? What are her arguments?

              Dr. Georg S. Adamsen
              -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
              Fra: Newell, Terry-Michael [mailto:newell@...]
              Sendt: 12. september 2003 17.19
              Til: 'revelation-list@yahoogroups.com'
              Emne: RE: [revelation-list] [Rev. List]: No More Sea?


              Barbara R. Rossing in "The Choice between Two Cities: Whore, Bride, and Empire in the Apocalypse" gives a convincing argument that the disappearance of the sea represents a "contrast between the political economies of New Jerusalem and Babylon."  The 'sea' represents the shipping economy of Babylon or in her words,  the "location of evil."  The alternative presented in the Apocalypse is "an economy that provides the essentials of life 'without payment.'" (cf. Rev. 21:6; 22:17)

              See Rossing, pp. 145-146.

              Thanks,
              Terry-Michael Newell
              Campbell University
              Buies Creek, NC
              USA

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Timothy P. Jenney [mailto:drjenney@...]
              Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 9:31 AM
              To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [revelation-list] [Rev. List]: No More Sea?

              Can anyone out there suggest a plausible reason for Rev. 21:1 "and the sea
              was no more"?

              Thanks in advance,

              Timothy P. Jenney

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            • Don K
              Re: SV: [revelation-list] [Rev. List]: No More Sea?Greg, I have personally taken the sea of the earlier chapter to represent the Old Covenant Temple
              Message 6 of 9 , Sep 13, 2003
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                Re: SV: [revelation-list] [Rev. List]: No More Sea?
                Greg,  I have personally taken the "sea" of the earlier chapter to represent the Old Covenant Temple imagery, for as all know, there was a huge brass "sea" standing in front of the temple. The priests had to wash there, and use the water as purification for entrance into the Temple. If this imagery stands behind the vision, then the removal of that sea would represent, like the removal of the veil, a removal of the hindrances between man and God. Thus, instead of the impeneterrable forbidding sea standing before the Throne, there is a river of life flowing from the Throne to all men.
                Just my thoughts
                Don K
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                Sent: Saturday, September 13, 2003 2:12 AM
                Subject: Re: SV: [revelation-list] [Rev. List]: No More Sea?

                The sea in Rev 21:1 I have always taken as symbolic in general of the source of evil being removed. But regarding another water symbol, does anyone see any connection between the sea surrounding the throne in 4:6 and the 'new sea' in Rev 22:1, which flows from the throne into the city rather than just surrounding the throne. Can any interpretive weight be given to such a symbolic shift or 'development'?

                Greg



                --
                Dr G.J. Clarke
                Director, Centre for Apologetic Scholarship and Education (CASE)
                New College
                University of New South Wales
                Sydney NSW 2052
                Ph. (61 2) 9381 1730
                Fax. (61 2) 9381 1909
                Email. g.clarke@...
                www.newcollege.unsw.edu.au/case.php



                From: "Georg S. Adamsen" <georg@...>
                Reply-To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Sat, 13 Sep 2003 01:50:32 +0200
                To: <revelation-list@yahoogroups.com>
                Subject: SV: [revelation-list] [Rev. List]: No More Sea?


                Why is it convincing? What are her arguments?

                Dr. Georg S. Adamsen
                -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
                Fra: Newell, Terry-Michael [mailto:newell@...]
                Sendt: 12. september 2003 17.19
                Til: 'revelation-list@yahoogroups.com'
                Emne: RE: [revelation-list] [Rev. List]: No More Sea?


                Barbara R. Rossing in "The Choice between Two Cities: Whore, Bride, and Empire in the Apocalypse" gives a convincing argument that the disappearance of the sea represents a "contrast between the political economies of New Jerusalem and Babylon."  The 'sea' represents the shipping economy of Babylon or in her words,  the "location of evil."  The alternative presented in the Apocalypse is "an economy that provides the essentials of life 'without payment.'" (cf. Rev. 21:6; 22:17)

                See Rossing, pp. 145-146.

                Thanks,
                Terry-Michael Newell
                Campbell University
                Buies Creek, NC
                USA

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Timothy P. Jenney [mailto:drjenney@...]
                Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 9:31 AM
                To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [revelation-list] [Rev. List]: No More Sea?

                Can anyone out there suggest a plausible reason for Rev. 21:1 "and the sea
                was no more"?

                Thanks in advance,

                Timothy P. Jenney

                ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
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              • Dave Mathewson
                In a forthcoming article to be published this Fall in Trinity Journal I sugget that Rev 21.1c has a significant background in New Exodus imagery such as found
                Message 7 of 9 , Sep 15, 2003
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                  In a forthcoming article to be published this Fall in Trinity Journal I
                  sugget that Rev 21.1c has a significant background in New Exodus imagery
                  such as found in Isa 51.9-10 (which merges mythical and Exodus imagery);
                  Zech 10.10-12 and several other OT texts (Psalms; cf. also Lev. R. 27.4). I
                  have argued this point in more summary fashion in my recent A New Heaven and
                  a New Earth: The Meaning and Function of the OT in Revelation 21.1-22.5
                  (Sheffield), pp. 65-68.

                  Dave Mathewson


                  >From: "Timothy P. Jenney" <drjenney@...>
                  >Reply-To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
                  >To: <revelation-list@yahoogroups.com>
                  >Subject: [revelation-list] [Rev. List]: No More Sea?
                  >Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 09:30:33 -0400
                  >
                  >
                  >Can anyone out there suggest a plausible reason for Rev. 21:1 "and the sea
                  >was no more"?
                  >
                  >Thanks in advance,
                  >
                  >Timothy P. Jenney
                  >

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                • Ramsey Michaels
                  The sea seems to be equivalent to Death and Hades. There seems to be a chiasm: a. The sea gave up the dead that were in it (20:13a) b. Death and Hades gave
                  Message 8 of 9 , Sep 15, 2003
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                    The "sea" seems to be equivalent to "Death and Hades."

                    There seems to be a chiasm:

                    a. The sea gave up the dead that were in it (20:13a)
                    b. Death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them (20:13b).
                    b'. Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire (20:14).
                    a'. There was no more sea (21:1).

                    The old earth and sky are gone already in 21:11, but the sea has to stay
                    around long enough to give up its dead. Then it too, is gone, but there is
                    no "new" sea to correspond to the new sky and earth because the sea, like
                    the grave, is a realm of death. Unlike Death and Hades, it can hardly be
                    said to be cast into the lake of fire, for this would sound incongruous
                    (Would the sea put the fire out? :-). So the author contents himself with
                    just saying, "There was no more sea."

                    By the way, check out Rudyard Kipling's poem, "The Last Chantey."

                    Ramsey Michaels
                  • Ariel Alvarez Valdes
                    In Rev 21:5, the One who was seated on the throne says to John: Write this down”. Does anyone know what John have to write? Are God’s words referred to
                    Message 9 of 9 , Sep 16, 2003
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                      In Rev 21:5, the One who was seated on the throne says
                      to John: "Write this down”.
                      Does anyone know what John have to write? Are God’s
                      words referred to the hole book of Revelation, or only
                      vv.1-4, or even to the next words “these words are
                      trustworthy and true”?
                      What does the authors say?
                      Than you

                      Ariel Alvarez Valdés


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