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The Cross and the end of the world

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  • Greg Clarke
    ... My friend and colleague, Peter Bolt, has just delivered the Moore College Annual Lectures. He addressed the Gospel of Mark. In one lecture, he spoke of the
    Message 1 of 6 , Aug 28, 2003
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      > From: "Alan Fuller" <rocsy@...>
      > Reply-To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 22:27:58 -0000
      > To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [revelation-list] (unknown)
      >
      > 1. The Revelation may represent several things, but one thing it
      > surely describes is the end of the world....


      My friend and colleague, Peter Bolt, has just delivered the Moore College
      Annual Lectures. He addressed the Gospel of Mark. In one lecture, he spoke
      of the cross as the end of the world--the apocalyptic event which
      reinterprets apocalyptic. This makes a lot of sense of Mark 13, and makes it
      integral to the Gospel rather than some sort of interpolation.

      It also fits well with Rev 5 and the slain lamb on the throne. The
      'slain-ness' of the Lamb has always bothered me--why not a 'risen Lamb' of
      some kind? Peter Bolt's focus on the cross as the apocalyptic event, the
      means by which the king was crowned, seems to help here.

      Thoughts from others?

      Greg Clarke
    • Georg S. Adamsen
      I think you misunderstand Revelation 5. John sees the lamb hESTHKOS. hESTHKOS means that it is standing, which a dead lamb does not do. Moreover, it moved or
      Message 2 of 6 , Aug 29, 2003
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        I think you misunderstand Revelation 5. John sees the lamb hESTHKOS.
        hESTHKOS means that it is standing, which a dead lamb does not do. Moreover,
        it moved or went (or 'came') (v. 7), which a dead lamb does not.

        Dr. Georg S. Adamsen

        > -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
        > Fra: Greg Clarke [mailto:gjclarke@...]
        > Sendt: 29. august 2003 01.55
        >
        >
        > It also fits well with Rev 5 and the slain lamb on the throne. The
        > 'slain-ness' of the Lamb has always bothered me--why not a 'risen Lamb' of
        > some kind? Peter Bolt's focus on the cross as the apocalyptic event, the
        > means by which the king was crowned, seems to help here.
        >
        > Thoughts from others?
        >
        > Greg Clarke
      • Alan Fuller
        Hi Greg, It makes a lot of sense to me to compare the cross to the end of the world. I look at it this way: A. Deception and treachery B. Tribulation and
        Message 3 of 6 , Aug 29, 2003
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          Hi Greg,

          It makes a lot of sense to me to compare the cross to the end of the
          world. I look at it this way:

          A. Deception and treachery
          B. Tribulation and judgment
          C. The crucifixion and the end of the world
          D. Resurrection

          I think we see these patterns in both the gospel and in Revelation.
          The deception and betrayal of Judas and Satanic forces. The
          persecution and judgment of Christ in the gospel, and the destruction
          of Judas. The persecution of saints, and the destruction of beasts
          in Revelation. Then there's the crucifixion and end of the world
          followed by the resurrection of Christ, and the resurrections in
          Revelation.

          I do see chapter 5 as more of a beginning of the end, if I understand
          you correctly.

          Alan


          --- In revelation-list@yahoogroups.com, Greg Clarke <gjclarke@o...>
          wrote:
          > > From: "Alan Fuller" <rocsy@y...>
          > > Reply-To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
          > > Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 22:27:58 -0000
          > > To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
          > > Subject: [revelation-list] (unknown)
          > >
          > > 1. The Revelation may represent several things, but one thing it
          > > surely describes is the end of the world....
          >
          >
          > My friend and colleague, Peter Bolt, has just delivered the Moore
          College
          > Annual Lectures. He addressed the Gospel of Mark. In one lecture,
          he spoke
          > of the cross as the end of the world--the apocalyptic event which
          > reinterprets apocalyptic. This makes a lot of sense of Mark 13, and
          makes it
          > integral to the Gospel rather than some sort of interpolation.
          >
          > It also fits well with Rev 5 and the slain lamb on the throne. The
          > 'slain-ness' of the Lamb has always bothered me--why not a 'risen
          Lamb' of
          > some kind? Peter Bolt's focus on the cross as the apocalyptic
          event, the
          > means by which the king was crowned, seems to help here.
          >
          > Thoughts from others?
          >
          > Greg Clarke
        • Don K
          I think Revelation 5 contains another element that enters directly into the equation, yet is generally ignored. That is the fact that John alludes to Jesus
          Message 4 of 6 , Aug 29, 2003
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            I think Revelation 5 contains another element that enters directly into the
            equation, yet is generally ignored. That is the fact that John alludes to
            Jesus "the lion of the tribe of Judah" thus, bringing to mind Genesis 49:10.
            It seems to me that in good midrashic form, John is calling his reader's
            attention to the fact that the time has come for the scepter to depart from
            Judah, because the Lion of Judah is about to take the scepter to himself by
            entering into his kingdom (Revelation 11:16f).
            This is more than a bit evocative and helpful, since 11:8f depicts the
            judgment of the city "where the Lord was slain" i.e. the center of Judah's
            sovereignty. There is a changing of world's about to take place. Judah was
            about to lose her scepter while the Lion of Judah assumed His.
            It was indeed the "end of the world," but it was not cosmological in the
            modern sense. It was the soteriological and eschatological climax of
            Israel's Old Covenant World.
            Don K

            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Greg Clarke" <gjclarke@...>
            To: <revelation-list@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Thursday, August 28, 2003 6:55 PM
            Subject: [revelation-list] The Cross and the end of the world


            > > From: "Alan Fuller" <rocsy@...>
            > > Reply-To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
            > > Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2003 22:27:58 -0000
            > > To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
            > > Subject: [revelation-list] (unknown)
            > >
            > > 1. The Revelation may represent several things, but one thing it
            > > surely describes is the end of the world....
            >
            >
            > My friend and colleague, Peter Bolt, has just delivered the Moore College
            > Annual Lectures. He addressed the Gospel of Mark. In one lecture, he spoke
            > of the cross as the end of the world--the apocalyptic event which
            > reinterprets apocalyptic. This makes a lot of sense of Mark 13, and makes
            it
            > integral to the Gospel rather than some sort of interpolation.
            >
            > It also fits well with Rev 5 and the slain lamb on the throne. The
            > 'slain-ness' of the Lamb has always bothered me--why not a 'risen Lamb' of
            > some kind? Peter Bolt's focus on the cross as the apocalyptic event, the
            > means by which the king was crowned, seems to help here.
            >
            > Thoughts from others?
            >
            > Greg Clarke
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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            >
            >
          • Greg Clarke
            Certainly true, Georg. The lamb isn t seated on the throne, although he is as near as possible to it--even in the midst of it in Rev 7:15. But the link
            Message 5 of 6 , Aug 31, 2003
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              Certainly true, Georg. The lamb isn't seated on the throne, although he is
              as near as possible to it--even "in the midst" of it in Rev 7:15. But the
              link between the appearance of being slain (ESPHAGMENON) and worthiness to
              open the seals is clear (5: 9, 12; ; 13:8). The Lamb's 'slain-ness' seems to
              be the key to its power--not its current life. It is this connection between
              the death of Jesus (represented metaphorically) and his power to usher in
              the Judgement that interests me. His death, rather than his resurrection,
              seems to give him worth and power.

              Greg


              --
              Dr G.J. Clarke
              Director, Centre for Apologetic Scholarship and Education (CASE)
              New College
              University of New South Wales
              Sydney NSW 2052
              Ph. (61 2) 9381 1730
              Fax. (61 2) 9381 1909
              Email. g.clarke@...
              www.newcollege.unsw.edu.au/case.php


              > From: "Georg S. Adamsen" <georg@...>
              > Reply-To: revelation-list@yahoogroups.com
              > Date: Fri, 29 Aug 2003 15:06:00 +0200
              > To: <revelation-list@yahoogroups.com>
              > Subject: SV: [revelation-list] The Cross and the end of the world
              >
              > I think you misunderstand Revelation 5. John sees the lamb hESTHKOS.
              > hESTHKOS means that it is standing, which a dead lamb does not do. Moreover,
              > it moved or went (or 'came') (v. 7), which a dead lamb does not.
              >
              > Dr. Georg S. Adamsen
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